[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[AtticusBlaqk]

Your PATH to victory is when you use Rhinos.

You're a terrible person, lol!

Real talk though. I'm correct in understanding that the correct choice is path over plow due to the likelihood that our explorers have already pulled out most of their basics or is this a metagame call?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zirath]

You're a terrible person, lol!

Real talk though. I'm correct in understanding that the correct choice is path over plow due to the likelihood that our explorers have already pulled out most of their basics or is this a metagame call?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure this is because of Eldrazi and Delver being the most common creature decks where you actually want a plow effect.

[Bobmans]

On overall, against most MU's, Path has less downside then Swords has.
Decks that you generally do not want to have more basics are combo and Miracles. Miracles is creature light anyway, so i'd board out a number of Path anyway. AD, Deed and Pulse do a better job here.
That leaves combo (SnT/Reanimator/Marit). Here, if you gotta cast Path, then your already in a situation where more basics don't matter anyway. But casting Path over Swords means your not giving away free Timewalks for them to establish another quick Griselbitch or Marit Lage. You really want to hold momentum against those decks. Especially if you can cast a drain life on a beatstick, which you basicly negate when you cast Plows. On top of that, Delver decks (specially Grixis) will really love you for giving them more time to turn Brainstorms into Lightning Bolts.
Any other deck is going to be happy if you trigger vet if they have basics, but i found that i don't give a shit anyway: we have better cards to play with the mana. So in most situations, cast Path says: Exile target creature, period.
Plows says: Exile target creature, your opponent gets to timewalk.
I really REALLY want to play Plow over Path since, obviously, FBB JPN original art looks better, but i can't deny that Path is just working better for the deck.

[square_two]

Soon as I can get my hands on some new Recruiters (hopefully this weekend), I'm going to try to test Aluren Fit. I feel like the two decks could mesh really well. Plus I ordered Aluren before the obvious spike.

Aluren in play + Recruiter in hand is basically the start of the combo, and we can ramp to 4 surprisingly easily. Therapy helps provide disruption, Deed can clear things away while we work to draw into what we need. Meren or some sort of Recurring Nightmare can provide either recursivity for creatures or longevity versus fair ground decks. I'm not quite sure how many Rectors vs Aluren I want but there is room for some jazz thanks to Rector. Nic Fit already enjoys running Witnesses for value and these are doubly good in Aluren.

The downsides I see are 1) less powerful secondary plan than most Aluren builds that have a Shardless BUG style plan B, 2) less ability to utilize mana and GSZ for a beastie to help stabilize or close the game. I might try a couple of Eldritch Evolution since Vet can go get Recruiter for the combo, also Rector into...Yosei, grab Nightmare? Evolution might just be too cute here. Or too cute anywhere, I still am not sure. This deck will probably have 2 or 3 Witnesses so it is easy to setup the combo again if Evolution gets countered and thus in the grave.

Another obvious downside is combo pieces stuck in hand without Brainstorm.

Huge upside is just the ability to combo win pretty early. I get really annoyed by the grindiness of Nic Fit sometimes. At least, the SFM builds I've ran earlier this year. Both Recruiter and Rector could lead to some nice sideboard options too.

Will try to post a decklist once I can get some testing in, no idea when Recruiters will be available online. But if you are interested in what I have thought up so far just PM me.

[Echelon]

Don't forget you also need to be able to find Aluren (and not just the creatures for it). And it might be nice if you're able to defend it while it's on the stack. Aluren is a fine FoW-target.

I like the idea though, just try to keep those things in mind while building your deck.

[Jain_Mor]

I wouldn't call StP a timewalk for the opponent :P
This deck doesn't tend to race much, when it wins, it wins against creature decks.
Path to exile is awful turn 1 against DRS or Mom etc

Those are some arguements against path. I think path can make sense in the 4 rhino builds that are legitimately trying to drain the opponent out, but otherwise it's a usually StP unless you have an unusually amount of Marit lages running around

[Arianrhod]

Took top 8 at Mythic again yesterday, unfortunately falling in the quarters to a burn player who drew extremely well (and, to his credit, did play tightly) while I mulled to 5 twice and 6 in the game I won. After discussion with friends, I should have took a slightly different decision path in g1 that would have (warning: results based) resulted in my victory -- this does not change the fact that the math suggests I should have taken the line regardless of my knowledge of what I ended up drawing.

I was on a very slightly tuned version of the Sneak deck that I've been working on for a while now. At this point, my plan is to fully unveil it and discuss it here in early October, to allow people some time to acquire cards and practice with it a bit before Eternal Extravaganza (which I will not be attending, unfortunately) and Eternal Weekend. I still don't want to go into too much detail about it or have too many people playing it for now, because I want to get closer to EE/EW without it becoming the mainstream contender that I believe it will end up being.

The only match I lost in the 6 round swiss was vs LED Dredge, who killed me on turn 1 in game one and fundamentally killed me on turn 1 again in game three, although it actually took closer to three turns for him to get the job done. I beat my round one bye, then 2-0'd Lands, died to Dredge 1-2, 2-0'd Deathblade, and 2-0'd Eldrazi into an ID for top 8. I'll also report quickly on a ~20something person local event from last Sunday, where I unintentionally drew with Miracles, then beat Charbelcher 2-1, beat RW Painter 2-0, beat Infect 2-1, ID'd with DnT but should've played for seeding -- this was a huge mistake because it put me in a position to have to play vs Lands in top 8, which I lost in game 3 to opponent mulling to 5 vs my 7 including Surgical, only to have him naturally have both Depths and Stage in his opener. I had one turn to draw spaghetti (or Zenith) with Sneak in play and bricked, so he killed me. The rest of the top 8 was super soft to me, which was slightly irritating...but was, at the end of the day, my own fault for not playing the top 8 seeding correctly.

After the last three tournaments, I have a combined record of 11-4-4 including top 8s (which feature two of my losses, making my swiss record 10-2-4). There's still a bit of minor tuning to be done, but the deck is very close. I look forward to bringing everyone fully into the loop in October! I've got one more Mythic on the 17th for more data, so hopefully I can make my run even hotter.

[Warden]

Took top 8 at Mythic again yesterday, unfortunately falling in the quarters to a burn player who drew extremely well (and, to his credit, did play tightly) while I mulled to 5 twice and 6 in the game I won. After discussion with friends, I should have took a slightly different decision path in g1 that would have (warning: results based) resulted in my victory -- this does not change the fact that the math suggests I should have taken the line regardless of my knowledge of what I ended up drawing.

I was on a very slightly tuned version of the Sneak deck that I've been working on for a while now. At this point, my plan is to fully unveil it and discuss it here in early October, to allow people some time to acquire cards and practice with it a bit before Eternal Extravaganza (which I will not be attending, unfortunately) and Eternal Weekend. I still don't want to go into too much detail about it or have too many people playing it for now, because I want to get closer to EE/EW without it becoming the mainstream contender that I believe it will end up being.

The only match I lost in the 6 round swiss was vs LED Dredge, who killed me on turn 1 in game one and fundamentally killed me on turn 1 again in game three, although it actually took closer to three turns for him to get the job done. I beat my round one bye, then 2-0'd Lands, died to Dredge 1-2, 2-0'd Deathblade, and 2-0'd Eldrazi into an ID for top 8. I'll also report quickly on a ~20something person local event from last Sunday, where I unintentionally drew with Miracles, then beat Charbelcher 2-1, beat RW Painter 2-0, beat Infect 2-1, ID'd with DnT but should've played for seeding -- this was a huge mistake because it put me in a position to have to play vs Lands in top 8, which I lost in game 3 to opponent mulling to 5 vs my 7 including Surgical, only to have him naturally have both Depths and Stage in his opener. I had one turn to draw spaghetti (or Zenith) with Sneak in play and bricked, so he killed me. The rest of the top 8 was super soft to me, which was slightly irritating...but was, at the end of the day, my own fault for not playing the top 8 seeding correctly.

After the last three tournaments, I have a combined record of 11-4-4 including top 8s (which feature two of my losses, making my swiss record 10-2-4). There's still a bit of minor tuning to be done, but the deck is very close. I look forward to bringing everyone fully into the loop in October! I've got one more Mythic on the 17th for more data, so hopefully I can make my run even hotter.

I won't spill the beans either, but I saw Kev play bits and pieces in person and I think conceptually this thing can surprise a big room. There are some "wtf' boardstates that give you such inevitability.
Kev, I'd be willing to help you tinker if you wanna PM me your list. I have access to your previous incarnation + remembered what you verbally told me. I think you would benefit from Thoughtseize in the main. I also think you could cut some cute friends in favor of just a straightforward list.

Not sure if I should take a break from my current run with Maverick but you're making me want to acquire cards to run the thing myself.

[rubblekill]

Arian, you are making me really curious right now!

While you are having fun with SAttack, I have been toying with a Junk PW list similar to the one you posted here a while ago. I am really having nice results against miracles and eldrazi. Eldrazi in particular is very very easily beatable.
Storm is quite rare at the moment so that is a plus. Thanks eldrazi friends!

[Bobmans]

I look forward to bringing everyone fully into the loop in October! I've got one more Mythic on the 17th for more data, so hopefully I can make my run even hotter.

Just curious tho, what makes you play SneakyFit of Eldrazi NicFit?

[Echelon]

So... Would the coming of Sanctum Prelate be the ideal moment to transform Nic Fit into Big Maverick..? It can shut down a lot of stuff without hurting ourselves all too much and we're one of the few decks that can power it out quickly enough.

[Arianrhod]

I won't spill the beans either, but I saw Kev play bits and pieces in person and I think conceptually this thing can surprise a big room. There are some "wtf' boardstates that give you such inevitability.
Kev, I'd be willing to help you tinker if you wanna PM me your list. I have access to your previous incarnation + remembered what you verbally told me. I think you would benefit from Thoughtseize in the main. I also think you could cut some cute friends in favor of just a straightforward list.

Not sure if I should take a break from my current run with Maverick but you're making me want to acquire cards to run the thing myself.

I'll PM you some thoughts.

Just curious tho, what makes you play SneakyFit of Eldrazi NicFit?

Assuming of=over: it's mostly the presence of the combo finish and the ability to run red sideboard cards. It goes just as late as Eldrazi does, and can win the game much quicker unfair, or a bit slower fairly. It can still grind like the white versions can, and it has the potential to have one of the most potent (non-merit lage) removal suites available. Like, we have a deck here that is just as capable as any other Nic Fit of winning the long grindy games vs fair decks -- but you also then have hands where you turn 2 TES, or turn 3 Elves. Both of these are hands that I personally had, although admittedly Elves won the die roll and turn 3'd me first and I opted to Therapy on t1 rather than Vet vs TES, which slowed me a turn. Having that kind of explosive combo finish in a deck like Nic Fit is absolutely bonkers, and I'm much more interested in having that ability than tinkering further with Eldrazi things at the moment. It's conceivable that if/when the meta shifts, that might change -- but for now, I don't actually see an end to me playing this version. It's favored vs almost all of the meta choices at the moment (miracles is, as always, a cointoss, although I think I'm generally slightly favored pending individual versions and card selections), and it has enough raw nuclear cannon power that it can just run through a room of random nonsense.

So... Would the coming of Sanctum Prelate be the ideal moment to transform Nic Fit into Big Maverick..? It can shut down a lot of stuff without hurting ourselves all too much and we're one of the few decks that can power it out quickly enough.

I've been working on a build with Zirath that uses Prelate. It's super early in design and very rough around the edges, but he jammed a couple games with it between rounds at Mythic and Prelate definitely looked pretty strong. I'm personally of the opinion that it's a 2-of+ sideboard card in most white versions that are not specifically trying to break it, but I wouldn't fault you for trying to take the "Big Mav" approach and run them maindeck. Prelate with Therapy is in fact pretty fucking gross, although you need to remember (as I initially didn't) that it will shut off your own spells at that cmc as well, so if you name 1, you can't flashback Therapy, play Top, etc; 3 turns off their Council's Judgment but also your Pernicious Deed; and remember that Green Sun's Zenith CAN be stopped by that if you aren't careful, although you can always dump one more mana into it if you have available.

[Bobmans]

Assuming of=over: it's mostly the presence of the combo finish and the ability to run red sideboard cards. It goes just as late as Eldrazi does, and can win the game much quicker unfair, or a bit slower fairly. It can still grind like the white versions can, and it has the potential to have one of the most potent (non-merit lage) removal suites available. Like, we have a deck here that is just as capable as any other Nic Fit of winning the long grindy games vs fair decks -- but you also then have hands where you turn 2 TES, or turn 3 Elves. Both of these are hands that I personally had, although admittedly Elves won the die roll and turn 3'd me first and I opted to Therapy on t1 rather than Vet vs TES, which slowed me a turn. Having that kind of explosive combo finish in a deck like Nic Fit is absolutely bonkers, and I'm much more interested in having that ability than tinkering further with Eldrazi things at the moment. It's conceivable that if/when the meta shifts, that might change -- but for now, I don't actually see an end to me playing this version. It's favored vs almost all of the meta choices at the moment (miracles is, as always, a cointoss, although I think I'm generally slightly favored pending individual versions and card selections), and it has enough raw nuclear cannon power that it can just run through a room of random nonsense.

I've seen your list you ran at the end of July. I must admit, it looks darn impressive. Not sure what choices you made after that T8 position, but i'm gonna give it a spin. Keep it up.

[Cliq]

An interesting NO G/B list just went 5-0 on MODO.

[Vestige]

Just a question because I haven't had the time to keep up lurking on this thread like I used to;

What does a list featuring Eldrazi look like? I'm not looking for that 8post version with prime time into emrakul, i'm talking like blinking Rhino with Displacer or jamming out TKS off of a VetEx.

Has anyone done work on this type of build yet? It'd probably be 4 color jamming colorless into abzan to get access to displacer, and may even just look like an abzan blink deck at the end of it. I've got Abzan Rhinos built, and am currently sitting on playsets of foil TKS, smasher, and displacer, so i'm wondering if there isn't a way to make the two work together.

[UseLess]

I actually managed to get a top 4 spot (out of 30ish) yesterday in the local legacy weekly going 4-0-2 (draws were not intentional...) with a GBCr list. I had posted it before but here it is for your convenience, with a few tweaks:


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Thragtusk
1 Reality Smasher
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Warping Wail
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Wastes
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Phyrexian Tower

SB
2 Choke
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dismember
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Extirpate
1 Krosan Grip
1 Maelstrom Pulse

I played in order Mono Red stompy (2-1), Miracles (1-1), Omniscience (2-0), Elves (1-1), High tide (2-1) and Br Reanimator (2-1). My opponent got really unlucky the last game with two mulligans to 5 and I had the Extraction/Extirpate for his first reanimate attempt and then Ooze/DRS to lock him out of the game. Deck performed very well overall and holds up nicely against combo with both TKS and Cabal Therapy. Courser didn't do anything and only got played once, but I switched it from Glissa because Eldrazi isn't that common anymore in my meta. Ruric Thar is also being tested as a 6-drop for GSZ and instead of a second Reality Smasher, of which the one left in the maindeck did hardly anything. The sideboard was very solid. Maybe it also helped I had an extremely sexy Veteran Explorer/Cabal Therapy set :)

[jmlima]

An interesting NO G/B list just went 5-0 on MODO.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/466912#online

I'm particularly surprised at 3 tireless Tracker's. On MTGO, mine die as soon as they hit the board. Yeah, they produce a clue, but that's about it. Seems a pretty hefty cost to pay for a clue token.

NO and Progenitus, pretty cool...

[Warden]

Just a question because I haven't had the time to keep up lurking on this thread like I used to;

What does a list featuring Eldrazi look like? I'm not looking for that 8post version with prime time into emrakul, i'm talking like blinking Rhino with Displacer or jamming out TKS off of a VetEx.

Has anyone done work on this type of build yet? It'd probably be 4 color jamming colorless into abzan to get access to displacer, and may even just look like an abzan blink deck at the end of it. I've got Abzan Rhinos built, and am currently sitting on playsets of foil TKS, smasher, and displacer, so i'm wondering if there isn't a way to make the two work together.

Basically you're out of spots to play all the things. I feel Junk already has no space. To include an Eldrazi in a Junk build means you sacrifice something else. Most likely removal. Rhino is ultimately a flex threat. To want Rhino-Eldrazi together, I can't help but ask where to put it all and if that combination is "better" than a stock Junk or GBC list.

@NO build: definitely looks interesting. I'm missing why the clue guy is needed in bulk like that. I'd personally choose something else as fodder unless the building of clues was that powerful.

[square_two]

Here is a link to it:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/466912#online

I'm particularly surprised at 3 tireless Tracker's. On MTGO, mine die as soon as they hit the board. Yeah, they produce a clue, but that's about it. Seems a pretty hefty cost to pay for a clue token.

NO and Progenitus, pretty cool...

They also seem like a non-bo with the Chains in the side lol. But having Decays + Innocent Blood might mean that Tracker can get in for massive damage if left unchecked. He's always a threat and I wouldn't mind playing 3 myself. Also the 10 fetches is more than usual for Nic Fit but also helps with having them.

I like how simple the deck looks...if I were going at it then I'd probably try 1 Ruric Thar in the main (with a single Mountain and Taiga to fetch?). Seems like not much of an issue to get to 7 mana to GSZ for the beastie. Assume that Bellower usually grabs the Witness to setup NO again or else just Tracker for beats.

Also, Wall of Blossoms is a strict upgrade to the Visionaries, no? I'd rather have an 0/4 blocker instead of a 1/1 that can attack.

Edit: Hope it doesn't come across badly to take someone's winning list and just automatically tweak it lol. But you have to admit there is a lot of variance of what you come across in a single league run.

How does this look? Small numbers could be tweaked for those that don't like 3 Trackers. I like Meren + repeatable sac outlet (Tower) in a list with Innocent Bloods and draw engines. Not sure about the side.

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Progenitus

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Innocent Blood
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower

[Warden]

They also seem like a non-bo with the Chains in the side lol. But having Decays + Innocent Blood might mean that Tracker can get in for massive damage if left unchecked. He's always a threat and I wouldn't mind playing 3 myself. Also the 10 fetches is more than usual for Nic Fit but also helps with having them.

Unless he's building up a massive amount of cards in his hand then drops chains. Or slowly depletes his clues as chains is out? You just can't draw a bunch on a single turn.

I like how simple the deck looks...if I were going at it then I'd probably try 1 Ruric Thar in the main (with a single Mountain and Taiga to fetch?). Seems like not much of an issue to get to 7 mana to GSZ for the beastie. Assume that Bellower usually grabs the Witness to setup NO again or else just Tracker for beats.

Also, Wall of Blossoms is a strict upgrade to the Visionaries, no? I'd rather have an 0/4 blocker instead of a 1/1 that can attack.

Edit: Hope it doesn't come across badly to take someone's winning list and just automatically tweak it lol. But you have to admit there is a lot of variance of what you come across in a single league run.

How does this look? Small numbers could be tweaked for those that don't like 3 Trackers. I like Meren + repeatable sac outlet (Tower) in a list with Innocent Bloods and draw engines. Not sure about the side.

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Progenitus

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Innocent Blood
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

2 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower

I agree with your points. This list is a nice thought-experiment. Not sure if I'd want to give this a go in an actual event. Maybe its simplicity is what made it win. It knows the paths it wants to work with. It makes a lot of sense. I'd keep TS to protect Natural Order. I'd cut innocent bloods in favor of Liliana of the Veils. I figure LotV clears paths/wins the game on her own. Clues refuel the hand so you have something to chuck to her in a pinch. I like Meren just as something to backup the Wall of Blossoms idea + build a loop with Liliana.
Woodland Bellower is technically a threat in and of itself. 6/5 vanilla could get there if you clear the path. Big dumb stupids tend to win. I think you're right about it grabbing witness as target #1. I guess it can land a tracker as #2 if you deplete the deck enough. My bigger issue is just not appreciating Tracker. He doesn't do enough in my meta. Ruric + Progenitus is quite fun though.