[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Bobmans]

I heard that Blood Moon is quite good vs them.

True. I never thought about the card. But the more i think about it, the more i start to not like it. The card is only OK vs Depths. Playing the blood moon game focusses on resolving and maintaining blood moon while they can still build up and snipe you when they0 found the card to take out moon. Also moon shuts down your own fetch and duals making it needing to focus on basics more and thus Veteran Explorer. Veteran enables them to fetch a basic forest and shoot down moon with Krosan Grip. Also Blood Moon shuts down Grove + PFire + Liliana. That is a huge minus for me. Pithing Needle is kind of the same range as sub optimal, bit at least it can be used in other matchups aswell. So far i like Diabolic Edict best because it puts both lands into the graveyard and solving the token. After that Extirpate can cleanup Depths.p Edict is also nice vs Reanimate and S&S.
Still i would have loved to see Wastelands in this deck, but that would be pushing it.

[Fatal]

I also heard Blood Moon works vs other decks like Shardless BUG /12Post / any other tricolor decks without basics like UWR, where it just win after it land with quite empty table. Sure It can be destroyed like any other permanent hate card. But non-permanent hate card required more cards or are temporally like Edict - works for turn - same as fog, before they don't loam/put combo back - so you need an other card like Ooze/Shaman/Surgical to stop it from recur.

Similar cards which can be used - Karakas - works vs Teegs which is quite important and crop rotations. Most of them are still quite narrow, there aren't exist cards which can't be answered by - you need many angles to attack:
- punishing fire - creature based hate (Peacekeeper, Ooze, Shaman, Dawnstrider)
- krosan grip - permanent non-creature based (Pithing Needle, Blood Moon, Humility)
- wastelands - lands based (Maze of Ith, Karakas, Wasteland)
- recursion - removal (Diabolic Edict, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares)

For Jund colors:

Diabolic Edict, Blood Moon/Pithing Needle, Ooze, Shaman maybe Dawnstrider as 1-of, dunno :) its unfavorable MU.

Edit - best answer vs them play fast combo or D&T. :)

Edit 2: Found narrow answer vs Depths combo and S&T/Sneak - http://magiccards.info/mr/en/320.html very narrow (doesn't work on Emrakul), but instant win :)

[thotcrime]

Act of Aggression

Congrats you just won the game :)

[sdematt]

Still toying around with the list and sideboard. Maindeck remains unchanged, basically. I dropped the red splash, at least for now, and added a maindeck Sylvan Safekeeper since we ALWAYS have an excess of lands, and protecting Teeg in the Miracles games has proven difficult without him.

Trying:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (cut Thragtusk for Ollie, we'll see how it goes, might also become Golgari Charm again, who knows? If Teeg gets cut, then he'll become Golgari charm)

3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Diabolic Intent
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Top
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant (trying cutting a Decay for her)

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
23

Sideboard

2 Gaddock Teeg (even though it's better against combo, Walkers might be better in tackling Miracles, leaving other slots for dedicated combo hate. More testing needed. If he can't be reliably protected, then we'll see, right?)
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Krosan Grip
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Cranial Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge

Benefits to running Safekeeper are primarily to protect Teeg, but there's play in protecting Rhinos from Jace-bouncing as well as STP's. Tao's suggestions hold MORE true over longer testing against Miracles, as other colleagues have noted - if you don't hit Thrun or Sigarda, frequently threats don't stick around. However, with Safekeeper, they either have to plug a ton of removal at him, where we play a ton of lands, or waste a counterspell on him. Generally, when you Zenith for one, it does resolves because the opponent assumes either Veteran or Deathrite, and when he enters play, it's too late. The awkward part is you need him down first, then go get Teeg for the lock to be solid. You can't Zenith for Safekeeper under Teeg, and by that time, Jace may have already come down. Needle seems to do a better job at stopping Jace, but it doesn't stop Entreat nor Terminus. Hopefully, you Cranial away either Jace, STP, or Terminus (in games where I had Thrun, I got rid of Terminus, etc.). Deed handles Entreat if you have it (set it and forget it).

I think the Walkers will of great benefit against Miracles since it puts us on the offensive, and keeps them on the back foot, but the applicability in other matchups only extends to perhaps Shardless or Punishing Jund. Teeg has play against Combo, Miracles, etc. I think if we decide to cut Teeg for, say, Needles, it gives us extra play against Lands, SnT, and a few others while losing ground against Omni and Combo (assuming Teeg and Needle are net neutral against Miracles). To compensate, Surgical and Extirpate could become dedicated anti Combo pieces (suggestions?).

Thoughts?

-Matt

[Plague Sliver]

Anti-combo: Ethersworn Canonist, the bane of Storm players everywhere. There's also Containment Priest, of course, which shuts off our own GSZ utility. But it's the same principle as with Mr. Teeg.

Matt, I'm surprised you cut a Decay for Elspeth. If anything, I view Diabolic Intent as the slot to cut. But I could be wrong.

[jbone2016]

Another event. Another disappointing 2-3.

Lose to elves (with main deck blood moon) in 3. Slightly budget, less combo, more beats. Blood moon screwed me 3rd game with no black mana and a deluge sitting in my hand.
Win vs Painted Stone in 2. Opp mulled 3 times in 2 games but nearly killed me game 1 if I don't blind name grindstone in early in the game. Timely removal gets there.
Win vs ANT. Teeg does the usual game one. Lose the 2nd. Discard and rhino beats finish the job.
Lose vs Doomsday in 2. Buddy I carpooled with turn'd 2 me twice.
Lose vs Spanish Inquistion in 3. Teeg steals the first. He gets the 2nd. 3rd game I have a canonist on turn 2....but I get belched turn one.

I actually didn't have Scooze in the 76 at all today. Might want the 2 thoughtseize in the main again. Will check my lists from last year when I was on wish package.

[Plague Sliver]

Those match-ups are just bad for you, and Elves w/ Blood Moon? I mean, he might beat you but good luck if he ever goes anywhere with that...that should be treated as an extreme outlier.

[sdematt]

Anti-combo: Ethersworn Canonist, the bane of Storm players everywhere. There's also Containment Priest, of course, which shuts off our own GSZ utility. But it's the same principle as with Mr. Teeg.

Matt, I'm surprised you cut a Decay for Elspeth. If anything, I view Diabolic Intent as the slot to cut. But I could be wrong.

I used to only play 3 Decay with 1 Golgari Charm, so I'm trying it out. Intent, while only a 1-of, is extremely strong. Maybe it's the cut, but we'll see.

-Matt

[Bobmans]

Act of Aggression

Congrats you just won the game :)

I do not see how, since your opponent makes the token in your end step.

I am just wondering when is someone going to make a serious recommendation? Blood Moon, Act of Aggression? Really, but this is not thought out carefully. PFire NicFit is all about synergy, and those cards do not add to that.

Diabolic Edict works together with the deck. Because, they will use resources to create the token. Edict will get rid of it and enables Extirpate or other gravehate to stop it from recurring. Also i like to see Edict against other decks. While Blood Moon also works against us.

[Bobmans]

Edit 2: Found narrow answer vs Depths combo and S&T/Sneak - http://magiccards.info/mr/en/320.html very narrow (doesn't work on Emrakul), but instant win :)

Lol, that is pulling a bunny out of the hat when you actually play that card against an attacking Marit Lage.

[sdematt]

That's an extremely specific answer. I love it :P

-Matt

[Megadeus]

Those match-ups are just bad for you, and Elves w/ Blood Moon? I mean, he might beat you but good luck if he ever goes anywhere with that...that should be treated as an extreme outlier.

I think to be fair, there was an Elves list with Blood Moons that won an open.

[Ralf]

I think to be fair, there was an Elves list with Blood Moons that won an open.

That reminds me the time when chord of calling was still a card in the legacy scene. Some Elfball list were playing a few sliver bullets such as mirror entity, magus of the moon etc...

[Plague Sliver]

I think to be fair, there was an Elves list with Blood Moons that won an open.

You are right. But to paraphrase a skilled player, how about just killing them?

[Myelectronicdays]

I like the idea of trying out elspeth in the list. Let us know how that goes for you! I am also curious about cutting thrag for a charm or anything. I found if i gsz for 5 it will be sigarda.. and even if I have the ability to gsz for 5... ill go get another rhino instead!

rhino just trumps it like crazy.

[Dzogchen]

I played my weekly legacy FNM with an singleton Elspeth, KE and I thought it was really great. It let me jump a token to take out a JTMS and make a 7/8 flying rhino (too bad it got swords'd). Eventually my opponent killed her, but he had to waste so much time doing so.

Since I was trying out a planeswalker, I decided to try out a second one too. With the new Sidisi being mentioned earlier I decided to give Liliana Vess a try. For reference:

Liliana Vess
Planeswalker — Liliana (Loyalty: 5), 3BB (5)
+1: Target player discards a card.

−2: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.

−8: Put all creature cards from all graveyards onto the battlefield under your control.

I'd been thinking about the new Sidisi (seen here)and this seemed to parallel it sort of well until the card is released (same mana costs, similar effects). More tutor effects are always welcome here and after people spend resources countering my bigger creatures I figured the -8 could be very powerful. One sided discard every turn while we're already stripping cards seemed cool too.

I brought her in from the board against miracles and after baiting out a force of will on a GSZ, I jammed her. She did surprisingly well and allowed me to win the game on a mull to 5 which I REALLY thought I was losing. That being said I'm not 100% sure it belongs, but I think it has a more than 0% potential.

[jbone2016]

So. Display of Dominance. Nice abrupt decay.

[sdematt]

Display of Dominance is a 2-mana instant speed kill Jace. I'm okay with this.

The second mode is basically protection against Decay? You really want protection from spells and abilities, since what blue spell do you care about? Boomerang? We care about Jace.

This is awkward because if RUG Delver starts playing it, I'll be a little annoyed, but I think it's too specific for them.

-Matt

[jbone2016]

Display of Dominance is a 2-mana instant speed kill Jace. I'm okay with this.

The second mode is basically protection against Decay? You really want protection from spells and abilities, since what blue spell do you care about? Boomerang? We care about Jace.

This is awkward because if RUG Delver starts playing it, I'll be a little annoyed, but I think it's too specific for them.

-Matt

Also Lily and Omni. Submerge sometimes. Chain of vapor? I can't really think of anything else.

[sdematt]

Yeah, definitely seems like a good one. Not killing creatures is whatever, considering you run Path and other removal.

-Matt