[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[InkedIrishman]

I also play exclusively on MTGO simply due to work and time constraints, I can play at any point. The meta on there, from my experience at least, is that it's simply open. There's no dominating deck or deck type so you need to be prepared for it all. Had great results with my JunkFit list.

4 Vet Explorer
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Rel
1 Wilt-leaf Liege
3 Siege Rhino
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herions

4 GSZ
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

1 Garruk, Relentless

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard is ever-changing and personal preference but is things like Moat, another BSA, Thalia, Relics. Any questions, dont hesitate to ask. I know some of the choices are odd.

[thotcrime]

I personally think DRS needs to be included in the core considering how heavily peppered legacy is with fast combo. It's one of our only hopes of winning game 1 against Storm, Dredge, Delver etc.

This is just me daydreaming, but what do you think of Demonic Pact? I feel like it can produce juice to end a game quickly enough, and worst case scenario we can pop it with a Deed. Shrug.

[lavafrogg]

I personally think DRS needs to be included in the core considering how heavily peppered legacy is with fast combo. It's one of our only hopes of winning game 1 against Storm, Dredge, Delver etc.

This is just me daydreaming, but what do you think of Demonic Pact? I feel like it can produce juice to end a game quickly enough, and worst case scenario we can pop it with a Deed. Shrug.

Perilous Research suddenly seems very playable.

[Echelon]

It's mostly cute.

[sdematt]

I like Junk a bit because we can still jam 4 Canonists and a bunch of Grips and hopefully call those two matchups a day. However, Jund gets you REB and Games, and BUG, should it get off the ground, can obviously play Force, FS, and Grip. I played against BUG at Prague Eternal and crushed the ever loving garbage out of the guy. I just don't REALLY know what I want out of a BUG shell right now.

[Arianrhod]

I like Junk a bit because we can still jam 4 Canonists and a bunch of Grips and hopefully call those two matchups a day. However, Jund gets you REB and Games, and BUG, should it get off the ground, can obviously play Force, FS, and Grip. I played against BUG at Prague Eternal and crushed the ever loving garbage out of the guy. I just don't REALLY know what I want out of a BUG shell right now.

That's the problem BUG has had since day 1, unfortunately. There's all these sweet things you can do in "big blue" decks, and you obviously gain access to some ludicrous anti-combo cards (you left out Glen Elendra Archmage, for example, which can be as much of a nightmare for combo as Slaughter Games is). The problem is there is no clear game plan. There's all these reactive options, but there's no combos or plans other than just value-grinding your opponent to death.

I've really been wanting to make a Helmline bug list, but it's been defying me every step of the way while trying to design it. Perilous Research might actually be a missing link there, since my main issue was always what to do with redundant leylines and I couldn't come up with a good solution. Saccing them for cards seems fine.

Demonic Pact is hot garbage though, I'm pretty sure.

[Richard Cheese]

That's the problem BUG has had since day 1, unfortunately. There's all these sweet things you can do in "big blue" decks, and you obviously gain access to some ludicrous anti-combo cards (you left out Glen Elendra Archmage, for example, which can be as much of a nightmare for combo as Slaughter Games is). The problem is there is no clear game plan. There's all these reactive options, but there's no combos or plans other than just value-grinding your opponent to death.

Isn't that pretty much the name of the game in Legacy now? I don't see anything wrong with just leaning on Explorer to go over the top of your opponent to value town. Lotion Thief, Glen Elendra, Jace, and what about the best creature in Legacy, Rainbow Efreet. All backed up by Deed, Decay, and counters? You'd need to run more hard counters, but that shouldn't be that big of an issue with the manabase, and could actually be another benefit to the Explorer package. My biggest problem is still wanting to run GSZ to make finding those Explorers consistent + some kind of associated toolbox, but maybe it's just correct to sell your soul and run Brainstorm/Ponder. If something as goofy and awkward as Shardless BUG can make it in Legacy, there has to be a competitive BUG Fit list.

[Tom4ik]

I run brainstorm and gitaxian probe right now but could be sold on ponder in that spot. Although I wouldnt run 4 ponder. I just dont think GSZ is needed in bug decks. I like running more blue (so Strix and Snapcaster) and being able to play FOW main. This gives the deck a more 50/50 feel than most lists as by doing that you lose some edge in the grindy matchups. I still like that as backing jace up with both force and deed provides more than enough value. If you are worried about win cons in the deck drop some of the lilys or 1 dig and add smth like Tasigur which was great for me when I was only on 2 dig.

Losing GSZ does reduce the vets you have access to immediately but I think the trade off is that of the nic fit decks I have played this is the most consistent at playing a normal game when you cannot ramp.

It MAY be at a disadvantage in the mirror but since when is the the nic fit mirror a consideration for a version? If you want to play nicfit to beat up on tempo and midrange decks punishing fire and/or the junk version will do that better. If you want to have a deck that has a more even spread of matchups then I think a bug control version is going to be better. This is all IMO.

[Richard Cheese]

As much as it pains me to admit it, DTT is probably correct for BUG. I'm just wondering if a BUG version needs any of the usual over the top fatties, or does it just grind out with resilient/utility dudes + Jace as alternate?

[Bobmans]

The non green, but blue creatures deliver "better" utility then green/blue green creatures offer. Obviously the better creatures are in Junk or Jund colors. Therefor i would prefer running a non GSZ list.
Thinking about BUG lists just give me headaches... like said, there is no clear gameplan. But ramping into Jace and protect him with value creatures might be solid enough. So far this is what i came up with:

Main 60
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Thragtusk
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
5 slots open for countermagic/Thoughtseize, but i am not sure where to go from there.
6 Duals
6 Basics
8 fetch
2 utility (Two Towers?)

Space is so tight...

[uncletiggy]

Right off the bat id say -1 scooze -2 ponder +1 strix +2 probe. Then three force and two flew slots. Maybe another tasigur and another cliq or two innocent blood. You could even go two glen elandra based on the meta.

[Bobmans]

Right off the bat id say -1 scooze -2 ponder +1 strix +2 probe. Then three force and two flew slots. Maybe another tasigur and another cliq or two innocent blood. You could even go two glen elandra based on the meta.

Probably even:
- Scooze
+2 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Ponder
+4 Force of will
Although i am not so sure what i would want to Snap back with the SCM.
1 Glen-Elendra Archmage and 1 Notion Thief are nice aswell. Also a card the i really like is Aetherling. An evasive beater that can easily go defensive protecting Jace. Also lategame we can sink mana in the card. The card reminds me of the times Morphling was a thing.

[Ralf]

As much as it pains me to admit it, DTT is probably correct for BUG. I'm just wondering if a BUG version needs any of the usual over the top fatties, or does it just grind out with resilient/utility dudes + Jace as alternate?

I guess you can go either ways.
I like playing sort of a combo in my BUG list as games tend to be really really grindy and having a I WIN button will at least help you closing G3.

I'm not sure whether we really need to play DTT or not.

From experience with BUG fit, I avoid playing any cards with UU/GG/BB that are not at least CMC =/>4.
Getting U/B/G as your first basic lands are more often than not a matter of life or death.
Speaking of which I usually fetch for swamp and then for a tropical so that you can cast everything against a non wasteland deck.

[maharis]

On the subject of BUG builds, this is an old Mystical Teachings build I was tooling around with. Haven't tested it in a while. I think this was Treasure Cruise era because I wanted to jam Notion Thief. Would also explain the Thragtusk and Chimera. I think I would add more counters and Snapcasters today. Maybe even something like a Mystic Snake or Plasm Capture.

2x Bayou
2x Forest
3x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Phyrexian Tower
3x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

2x Pernicious Deed

1x Baleful Strix
1x Horizon Chimera
2x Notion Thief
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Thragtusk
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
4x Veteran Explorer

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Green Sun's Zenith

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
1x Consume the Meek
1x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
3x Mystical Teachings

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Chill
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pernicious Deed
3x Pithing Needle
4x Swan Song

[Chaam]

I was thinking of trying out a BUG build that used Vet, Dorks and Lotus Cobra to ramp alongside counters, Jace and Consecrated Sphinx. What do you guys think? Maybe something like this:

Creatures (14)
4 Vet
1 DRS
1 Ooze
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
2 Consecrated Sphinx

Planeswalker (2)
2 JTMS

Sorcery (10)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
2 GSZ

Instant (10)
4 Brainstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

Enchantment (3)
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed

Lands (21)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Glen Elendra
1 JTMS
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Nihil Spellbomb

Thoughts? I've only ever really played vs. Nic Fit but I am interested in possibly playing it.

[Bobmans]

@ 4 Gitaxian Probe, why? The card is at its best G1, T1 on the play. For the rest of the match it just becomes worse topdeck. I'd prefer Ponder over Probe since that the card is miles better mid/lategame. Granting you card selection and another shuffle effect that makes your Brainstorm/Jacestorm better.
@ Teferi/Mystical Teachings. This is a very high commitment just to be able search your non flash creatures for 4! mana even. Having acces to a Force of Will can be ok i guess. But i'd rather be using slots for more versataille or higher impact cards.

@ Horizon Chimera: Vendilion Clique is worth more in that slot. Also for lifegain i will be sticking with Thragtusk since that card makes impact when it enters the battlefield.

@ Lotus Cobra. The card is conditional. You will find yourself wanting to get mana out of it, but lacking the landdrops/veteran trigger. Or the other way around. Lacking a solid card to drop out of the mana. I would run Deathrite Shaman as a playset. The card not only helps you ramp, it also solid vs combo and helps you stabilize against fast decks like burn.

as for my list:
I'll settle for:
+1 Ponder
+1 Strix
+4 FoW
-1 Scooze

Not sure if i want additional creatures like Glen-elandra or Notion Thief. I'll see from there.

Edit: Like i said, space is tight. I do, however, find the lack of additional countermagic or discard rather frustrating.

[uncletiggy]

We can agree to disagree on the fourth fow. I dont think you're a force deck you dont need it in most matches it's often the first card you should be siding out as nic fit and in the matches where you do have to force or die it might get you there game one and it might just be duressed away or recieve a force back. It gives you some percentage points game one but in the long run I dont think 4 main is right in anything other then a +20% omni/storm meta. If that's your meta then your playing the deck for fun and that slot should just be a super spicy one of anyway.

[Bobmans]

It gives you some percentage points game one but in the long run I dont think 4 main is right in anything other then a +20% omni/storm meta. If that's your meta then your playing the deck for fun and that slot should just be a super spicy one of anyway.

Good point. I'll have to think about it what to do with it. Putting FoW entirely into the board does open the main for some space.

I have run a few testgames and the list seems to ramp into an early Jace pretty smooth and does a decend job protecting it. The plus to run it in a NicFit shell is that you shift into grinding the game out with Jace faster then regular BUG control AND you simply have more means to be able to protect it. Also it applies more pressure much faster then BUGstill does. Also Pernicious Deed is an important factor here.
But i do feel rather "soft" to combo. The sideboard has to be dedicated to fight combo, nothing new to NicFit anyway. So i do feel right with putting Force into the board and strengthen the fair matchup game 1.
Perhaps +2 Thoughtseize or Liliana of the Veil, +1 Maelstrom Pulse or Vraska the Unseen and +1 Glen-Elendra Archmage or Eternal Witness. I do not see the point in running Snapcaster Mage in this deck. There are not to many usefull cards to flash. Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt make much more sense to run Snappie. Eternal Witness can bring back everything and still there is the option to loop Witness. We lack GSZ to find it, but with all the Brainstorm, Ponder, Dig and Jace action you should be able to find it pretty consistent. Running a more Walker heavy build with Vraska and Liliana sounds appealing, but i think that Thoughtseize/Maelstrom Pulse make the build more effecient.
Another consideration i have is that this deck lacks graveyard hate to battle Dredge/Reanimate. Scavenging Ooze is an auto include for me in any NicFit list and somehow i always end up being paired to either one in nearly every tournament i play.

[Tom4ik]

I run 4 gitaxian probe. I do not think its "wrong" but the card in the graveyard has to matter. This means DTT. I play 3 of that card, the sooner you dig the better. I also run 4 fow. I play this deck as a hard control deck though. I do not feel bad with my game 1 combo match up and post board I am more than happy.

Snapcaster is additional bstorms or decays pretty much. Which is fine, I have rarely thought snap was a bad draw, also allows some nice probe therapy snap hands against some decks. I play 2 snap and 3 strix but am not sure that config is right but its also very dependent on meta.

[Star|Scream]

I run 4 gitaxian probe. I do not think its "wrong" but the card in the graveyard has to matter. This means DTT. I play 3 of that card, the sooner you dig the better. I also run 4 fow. I play this deck as a hard control deck though. I do not feel bad with my game 1 combo match up and post board I am more than happy.

Snapcaster is additional bstorms or decays pretty much. Which is fine, I have rarely thought snap was a bad draw, also allows some nice probe therapy snap hands against some decks. I play 2 snap and 3 strix but am not sure that config is right but its also very dependent on meta.

Tom can we please see your latest list, or is it the same as a month or so back?
(haven't seen you on stream in a while)