[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

Trinisphere is insane, but might not be as great if you don't have multiple ways of turn 2ing it (ie, posts + vet/therapy). Nether Void has been a standby of mine for a longass time -- most storm decks these days are functionally incapable of beating it since it can't be Decayed (also the part where it locks them out of most spells).

Ralf swears by Dryad Militant -- I'm always hesitant because it exiles your Therapies, which halves your effect discard, but it's put up numbers for him.

Those are the main things I would recommend. I have a box full of random garbage like you wouldn't even believe that I've tried over the years. Most of it hasn't worked out, but some of it is hilarious. Have you ever seen Delver/(old) Miracles try to figure out how to beat Raking Canopy?

I will have to try a nether void.
Yes. Raking canopy is that spicy tech from the jungle.
I do really want to try pq though. Idk if chains is still sideboard able.
Maybe try something here and there. Check gatherer and talk to my buddy who always finds spicy tech.

[Ralf]

Ralf swears by Dryad Militant -- I'm always hesitant because it exiles your Therapies, which halves your effect discard, but it's put up numbers for him.

Yes.
I also tend to believe that if you GSZ for it, it basically means that dryad > therapy @ this very current stage of the game.
That little sucker has done so much for me. It is almost never expected and it is such a beating in some MU (dredge & ANT to name a few).


@ Ricardio:

I'm glad you try cutting Tusk. It is definitely not needed from my tests.
You should also try the bird & Sorin.

That PW can change the tide of a game so hard...It is almost unbelievable.
I did beat a MUD player with its own Wurmcoil once and a Miracle player with its own Jace.

Hilarious to say the least.

[Ricardio]

Yes.
I also tend to believe that if you GSZ for it, it basically means that dryad > therapy @ this very current stage of the game.
That little sucker has done so much for me. It is almost never expected and it is such a beating in some MU (dredge & ANT to name a few).


@ Ricardio:

I'm glad you try cutting Tusk. It is definitely not needed from my tests.
You should also try the bird & Sorin.

That PW can change the tide of a game so hard...It is almost unbelievable.
I did beat a MUD player with its own Wurmcoil once and a Miracle player with its own Jace.

Hilarious to say the least.

I'm sold on sorin now. Haha bird not so much.
Glad you are trying it. You just don't have enough pressure on your own life total and your creatures gain it back without you thinking.

[Brael]

Hi guys, potential new Nic Fit player here. As someone moving from Modern into Legacy - I enjoy these decks that seem to play the oddest cards/toolbox decks. I played Pod, followed by now Abzan Company in modern as a reference.

Moving into Legacy the Junk Rhino version of Nic Fits seems to excite me in odd ways. I like the idea of casting Standard Staples like Thragtusk and Rhino or EDH cards like Meren, Titania or Sigarda in a format notorious for playing 'the best cards'.

Now, a few questions for you - Besides 4 Cabal/Vetern and some mixture of Deeds/Rhino/Fatties what is core to the deck. Is top a necessity to the deck - or would more draw/tutors be alright.

This is something i'm looking at right now - tell me what I'm doing wrong guys :)

Top is very important, the deck just doesn't function without it. In your creature package you might want to consider a Courser or two, it has a real good interaction with Top and the lifegain can actually come into play.

I'm way less accomplished than others here with the deck, but I usually do pretty well at our Legacy tournaments (though I haven't been able to play our weeklies for the past couple months). Here's the list I use, I'll spare you the sideboard and add the disclaimer that I haven't kept up with this thread for a few weeks so I may be missing some new card everyone figured out.

Land 22
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp

Creatures 16
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells 17
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Path to Exile
1 Innocent Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths

Enchantment 3
3 Pernicious Deed

Artifact 3
3 Sensei's Divining Top

[Echelon]

I believe I'm in the camp with the lone tent when it comes to the necessity of Top (specifically). That being said, I do run 2 Diabolic Intent and 2 Painful Truths to find what I need. I do find that you do need something to help you dick around more efficiently, I just don't think it must specifically be Top.

I'm currently preparing my list for the upcoming monthly. I've upgraded my sideboard to have 2 Krosan Grip & 2 Ethersworn Canonist. As for flex slots, currently I'm looking at the following 4:
- Sorin, Lord of Innistrad (I agree on its utility vs. Miracles and it's just funny as hell)
- Ajani, Mentor of Heroes (allows you to pull ahead very quickly)
- Glissa, the Traitor (master of the battlefield)
- Gaddock Teeg/Qasali Pridemage/Dragonlord Dromoka

Please do remember that I do not run any Abrupt Decays, hence the thought of Qasali Pridemage as a GSZ'able semi-Abrupt Decay. It should give me some more outs G1 vs. Miracles (if I do run into it) and anything running lock pieces. In the worst case scenario it's a 3/3 beater for 2 mana so it's never really a dead card.

I might consider switching Ajani for Gaddock Teeg to improve my G1 vs. anyStorm.

[Bobmans]

I played a bunch of games with El-Nicky, hence Eldrazi NicFit. The list had a Waste for Veteran Explorer, 8Post mana and played 3 Matter Reshaper and 2 TKS along with a 2/2 split WW. Furthermore it had the usual GB tools. And finally i had Kozilek 1.0 and Emrakul.
Quick conclusion was that i never got to the point of casting Emrakul or Kozilek. I either won thru board control with beats or i lost. Seems to me that BGDevoid is better in midrange aggro/control then it is with a combo finisher with A Lot of mana, maybe a World Breaker as a panic button at the most.
However, i did like be jamming some Eldrazi in a NicFit shell (Matter Reshaper, Spin top in response to trigger) and will continue a little more on the deck > value to Llanowar Wastes.

[rubblekill]

Sweet!

I ran both and didn't have any problems. I felt karakas necessary because dealing with reanimator and the occasionaly turbo lage deck, you absolutely need it. Taiga is a pseudo-forest and karakas is my extra white source/sigarda Segway.

Maindeck feels super strong right now. SB can continue to be tweaked. Thalia felt bad, albeit I never drew her, when I brought her in and thought about drawing her, she was more of an inconvenience than a good card against my opponent. Since we have the mana, I want something more hard hitting. what do you guys think of Painful Quandary instead for storm and slow matchups? How rubble would call it :Is a spicy meatball. haha (no offense intended)

Spicy indeed, my friend. The problem I see with that card is that for 5 mana it really is too slow against storm (since you mentioned storm and slow matchups). SGames is pushing it already against ANT cmc-wise, but at least it can remove their only win condition thus leading to the win (and SGames replaces the bombs in the main deck that would be useless against storm otherwise).

Maybe against slow matchups it can be decent? But what matchup are we talking about? Miracles (SGames is straight up better against it imho) and Shardless? It seems cute but since it costs 0.016 tix online I might just give it a shot.

[Ricardio]

Spicy indeed, my friend. The problem I see with that card is that for 5 mana it really is too slow against storm (since you mentioned storm and slow matchups). SGames is pushing it already against ANT cmc-wise, but at least it can remove their only win condition thus leading to the win (and SGames replaces the bombs in the main deck that would be useless against storm otherwise).

Maybe against slow matchups it can be decent? But what matchup are we talking about? Miracles (SGames is straight up better against it imho) and Shardless? It seems cute but since it costs 0.016 tix online I might just give it a shot.

My thought process is that once I land the quandary it becomes a lock piece. I hand hate them, establish board presence and land QP. then every spell they cast, they have to discard a card or lose 5 life. Its like a tilted clock to push my opponent into a hole.

it cost me .034 tix aka mad tix bro. haha

[rubblekill]

My thought process is that once I land the quandary it becomes a lock piece. I hand hate them, establish board presence and land QP. then every spell they cast, they have to discard a card or lose 5 life. Its like a tilted clock to push my opponent into a hole.

it cost me .034 tix aka mad tix bro. haha

That *might* work against non-storm decks. ANT players are gonna laugh at us when they duress us and see a 5cmc enchantment. SG at 4 mana is pushing it already imo, and one turn can be the difference between a win and a loss.

On the militant topic: I tried her a couple months ago but it does nothing unless she hits the board in T1-2. For this reason I'd rather play more discard/surgicals instead to be honest.

[Ricardio]

That *might* work against non-storm decks. ANT players are gonna laugh at us when they duress us and see a 5cmc enchantment. SG at 4 mana is pushing it already imo, and one turn can be the difference between a win and a loss.

On the militant topic: I tried her a couple months ago but it does nothing unless she hits the board in T1-2. For this reason I'd rather play more discard/surgicals instead to be honest.

Well, I am going to try it because I NEED TO. So often I have hand hate and a threat to followup but I want maintained disruption. A therapy and rhino is good against storm but when each spell they want to caast creates this dilemma: discard or take 5? I can force them to mess up and rhino wins. you can naysay in the corner.

I agree with your thoughts on militant. I've played it and it hurts if not slows storm a bit but its not anywhere close to canonist or teeg in reality. killing half our therapies is a real cost as well.

[TTX]

Also, Dryad only shuts off Past In Flames and Cabal Ritual threshold. I think more Surgicals and a turn later Teeg is better. I like Painful Quandary against storm, but we need faster disruption (already stated).

On the Planeswalker singleton over Swagtusk topic, has Vraska the Unseen been considered? It's a removal spell with a built in win condition. Like most of the cards in Nic Fit, I like taking the "discombobulate the opponent" by playing spells they don't see in Legacy. Btw, Vraska can kill JtMS immediately as opposed to Sorin, who takes a few turns.


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[Ricardio]

Also, Dryad only shuts off Past In Flames and Cabal Ritual threshold. I think more Surgicals and a turn later Teeg is better. I like Painful Quandary against storm, but we need faster disruption (already stated).

On the Planeswalker singleton over Swagtusk topic, has Vraska the Unseen been considered? It's a removal spell with a built in win condition. Like most of the cards in Nic Fit, I like taking the "discombobulate the opponent" by playing spells they don't see in Legacy. Btw, Vraska can kill JtMS immediately as opposed to Sorin, who takes a few turns.


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dryad potentially shuts off PiF and if you have it t1/t2 then it can prevent threshold but lands and artifacts still go to the graveyard. PQ prevents the Ad Nauseam plan and forces them to put even more pressure on their resources.
I think pw is a pick your poison kind of thing. you can play w/o it but if you wanna try it out, I assume its fine. I liked his sorin story so im going o try it out of the sb along with PQ.

[rubblekill]

On a different topic, I am currently playing Hallowed Moonlight in the sb, since it hits a variety of decks (Marit Lage decks, GSZ decks, reanimator, S&S, dredge and even miracles and aether vial decks - although I am not sure I want to board it in those match ups-), plus it replaces itself.
Between 2 surgicals 1 rip 3 games 1 hallowed moonlight AND path ooze and drs, I have to say I feel covered for the lands match up (which I have been seeing quite often recently on modo).

[Ricardio]

On a different topic, I am currently playing Hallowed Moonlight in the sb, since it hits a variety of decks (Marit Lage decks, GSZ decks, reanimator, S&S, dredge and even miracles and aether vial decks - although I am not sure I want to board it in those match ups-), plus it replaces itself.
Between 2 surgicals 1 rip 3 games 1 hallowed moonlight AND path ooze and drs, I have to say I feel covered for the lands match up (which I have been seeing quite often recently on modo).

I think rip effects us just as much if not more. Games does not seem good against them but surgical is because you can target nonbasics. Needle seems like the right call instead of hallowed moonlight bc deed comes out. HM just requires you to hold it up and im not a fan of trying to play some weird subgame.

[Nerubian]

Also, Dryad only shuts off Past In Flames and Cabal Ritual threshold. I think more Surgicals and a turn later Teeg is better. I like Painful Quandary against storm, but we need faster disruption (already stated).

On the Planeswalker singleton over Swagtusk topic, has Vraska the Unseen been considered? It's a removal spell with a built in win condition. Like most of the cards in Nic Fit, I like taking the "discombobulate the opponent" by playing spells they don't see in Legacy. Btw, Vraska can kill JtMS immediately as opposed to Sorin, who takes a few turns.


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I run both Vraska and Elspeth, Sun's Champion in my sideboard. I have an unhealthy obsession with both of these cards - Vraska is 1-1 removal and then can do it again if we can stall the board for a turn. And Sun's Champion is a house against Eldrazi and is simply bigger than Sorin. It costs a bit more - but that's what we do, right? Plus, she goes real wide with an ultimate that doesn't necessarily need us to kill enemy things.

[Ricardio]

I run both Vraska and Elspeth, Sun's Champion in my sideboard. I have an unhealthy obsession with both of these cards - Vraska is 1-1 removal and then can do it again if we can stall the board for a turn. And Sun's Champion is a house against Eldrazi and is simply bigger than Sorin. It costs a bit more - but that's what we do, right? Plus, she goes real wide with an ultimate that doesn't necessarily need us to kill enemy things.

My vraska dealings in nic fit were not impressive, same with suns champ. I wanted them to be stronger than they were so I forced them and found out they are not all I need them to be. Nic fit is amazing because you can find your style and configuration and then mold it to how you want it.

[Navsi]

IMO if you want 5-mana value / removal walker, I'm more inclined towards Ob Nixilis Reignited over Vraska. His +1 is significantly more relevant, and his ultimate is probably just as good at winning the game.

[Fatal]

I played a bunch of games with El-Nicky, hence Eldrazi NicFit. The list had a Waste for Veteran Explorer, 8Post mana and played 3 Matter Reshaper and 2 TKS along with a 2/2 split WW. Furthermore it had the usual GB tools. And finally i had Kozilek 1.0 and Emrakul.
Quick conclusion was that i never got to the point of casting Emrakul or Kozilek. I either won thru board control with beats or i lost. Seems to me that BGDevoid is better in midrange aggro/control then it is with a combo finisher with A Lot of mana, maybe a World Breaker as a panic button at the most.
However, i did like be jamming some Eldrazi in a NicFit shell (Matter Reshaper, Spin top in response to trigger) and will continue a little more on the deck > value to Llanowar Wastes.

Could you post list which was tested ?

[rubblekill]

I think rip effects us just as much if not more. Games does not seem good against them but surgical is because you can target nonbasics. Needle seems like the right call instead of hallowed moonlight bc deed comes out. HM just requires you to hold it up and im not a fan of trying to play some weird subgame.

Rip hurts us just a little bit, while instead obliterates the opponents strategy (of course in the specific match ups we board it in); I'm fine with this trade.

Games is just additional surgical effects, I run games mainly for miracles and storm but the splash damage they can provide against lands decks is brutal; these matches are always long and games removes loam and/or of even fires.

HM is my (pretty much only) flex spot in my sb: I need to play it more to decide if its a keeper, but it cannot be denied that as a one of it hurts a lot of unfair strategies. I like it on paper, I will report my results with it in the future.

E. Against degenerate strategies sometimes we have to play those weird sub games in my opinion.
E2. Games cannot remove dark depths, I had to read the card again.

[Brael]

Rip hurts us just a little bit, while instead obliterates the opponents strategy (of course in the specific match ups we board it in); I'm fine with this trade.

RIP hurts a lot, most notably it shuts off Veteran Explorer triggers and doesn't get along well with Deed.

I believe I'm in the camp with the lone tent when it comes to the necessity of Top (specifically). That being said, I do run 2 Diabolic Intent and 2 Painful Truths to find what I need. I do find that you do need something to help you dick around more efficiently, I just don't think it must specifically be Top.

The deck shell is versatile enough that you don't need top, but it just does so much for the deck. A repeating source of search is great, and in a deck like this where we have a big gap between hits and misses (Rhino vs hitting a land) the quality really comes into play. That said, I think you're doing yourself a huge disservice to not play Top, I was even using it in the BUG version over Brainstorms.

What really makes top though in my opinion (and this will vary by meta) is the interaction with Courser of Kruphix, which allows you to start gaining multiple life and cards each and every turn. If your meta has a lot of decks like Shardles BUG this interaction just flat out wins the game, if you have a top down your opponents cannot out grind you their only option is to go faster.