Page 201 of 428 FirstFirst ... 101151191197198199200201202203204205211251301 ... LastLast
Results 4,001 to 4,020 of 8556

Thread: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

  1. #4001
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Mead Hall Games, Minneapolis
    Posts

    58

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    The biggest plus for a NO plan is that it will give you game against combo. With some early discard NO then turns into the fastest clock most nic fit decks can put together. It also allows for blowouts against other midrange decks where certain giant monsters are just too good.

    The negative is that it increases variance in the deck, can create situations where the cards are dead or psuedo-dead. NO is not reliable against control decks due to counters/terminus so I am certain it gets boarded out.

    If I was to play a NO version it would use blue. Access to brainstorm/ponder is a big get when adding these types of packages. I think NO is probably a worse version of entomb - reanimation at this point though. It only requires a single card in hand but the limitations on what it can do is larger. The available creatures options in green are just worse.

    In junk color I think this isnt needed. Blue could use another haymaker.

  2. #4002
    I wish I could read
    Ricardio's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2012
    Location

    Flur-ida, Murika
    Posts

    349

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    The biggest plus for a NO plan is that it will give you game against combo. With some early discard NO then turns into the fastest clock most nic fit decks can put together. It also allows for blowouts against other midrange decks where certain giant monsters are just too good.

    The negative is that it increases variance in the deck, can create situations where the cards are dead or psuedo-dead. NO is not reliable against control decks due to counters/terminus so I am certain it gets boarded out.

    If I was to play a NO version it would use blue. Access to brainstorm/ponder is a big get when adding these types of packages. I think NO is probably a worse version of entomb - reanimation at this point though. It only requires a single card in hand but the limitations on what it can do is larger. The available creatures options in green are just worse.

    In junk color I think this isnt needed. Blue could use another haymaker.
    but No, sac vet. getting progenitor mimic, entering as rhino. /dreams

    I just wanna play consecrated sphinx lol but junk is better than bug fit
    MTGO: Ricardio

    Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck

    I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.

    "Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh

    IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/

  3. #4003
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    463

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    @ Navsi

    Have you ever tried Titania, Protector of Argoth in any of your Scape lists ?

    1) I have won some games vs a resolved Emrakul (with life > 15)
    2) I have also played Scape with only 5 lands in play just to make a bunch of 5/3.

  4. #4004
    I wish I could read
    Ricardio's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2012
    Location

    Flur-ida, Murika
    Posts

    349

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    @ Navsi

    Have you ever tried Titania, Protector of Argoth in any of your Scape lists ?

    1) I have won some games vs a resolved Emrakul (with life > 15)
    2) I have also played Scape with only 5 lands in play just to make a bunch of 5/3.
    sylvan safekeeper is a thing.
    MTGO: Ricardio

    Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck

    I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.

    "Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh

    IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/

  5. #4005

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    I played a couple games with her but never went to a tournament. The problem with Titania is that she skews the decks quite a lot.

    - You can't reasonably expect to cast Titania before turn three, which means you probably won't be casting Scape or otherwise taking over the board until turn four. Since the tokens don't have Haste, that means that (assuming your opponent doesn't have interaction) you're lethal on turn five, which is the live turn for Scapeshift anyway. You don't actually speed up very much with Titania.

    - Titania makes you want to play more support cards for her. Sylvan Safekeeper is the obvious one, but there's also Dryad Arbor and potentially Crop Rotation. These are all well and good, but Scape already has a lot of cards which are dedicated to the combo / needs most of its slots for protection and stalling capability.

    IMO Titania is at her best in a shell which can afford the card slots to build around her. I'm thinking a Junk or 4c build to be honest, because Knight of The Reliquary is obviously amazing with her. I could see her as an alternate wincon in a Depths build, or as support in a GR heavy ramp build like the one using Omnath, Locus of Rage from a few pages back. She wants more interesting utility lands compared to Scape's already wonky manabase. Maybe something with Wasteland in it.

  6. #4006
    Aes Sídhe
    Arianrhod's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2010
    Location

    Williamsport, PA.
    Posts

    397

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Navsi View Post
    I played a couple games with her but never went to a tournament. The problem with Titania is that she skews the decks quite a lot.

    - You can't reasonably expect to cast Titania before turn three, which means you probably won't be casting Scape or otherwise taking over the board until turn four. Since the tokens don't have Haste, that means that (assuming your opponent doesn't have interaction) you're lethal on turn five, which is the live turn for Scapeshift anyway. You don't actually speed up very much with Titania.

    - Titania makes you want to play more support cards for her. Sylvan Safekeeper is the obvious one, but there's also Dryad Arbor and potentially Crop Rotation. These are all well and good, but Scape already has a lot of cards which are dedicated to the combo / needs most of its slots for protection and stalling capability.

    IMO Titania is at her best in a shell which can afford the card slots to build around her. I'm thinking a Junk or 4c build to be honest, because Knight of The Reliquary is obviously amazing with her. I could see her as an alternate wincon in a Depths build, or as support in a GR heavy ramp build like the one using Omnath, Locus of Rage from a few pages back. She wants more interesting utility lands compared to Scape's already wonky manabase. Maybe something with Wasteland in it.
    This is my opinion of Titania as well. I have one in a box somewhere just in case she becomes relevant, but I don't really think that she's a Nic Fit card -- not without a really specific version being built around her, anyway. We typically play around 6 fetches, which is poor for her; we don't play Wasteland, which is poor for her; and we run few utility lands, which is poor for her. The combo with Safekeeper is a thing, but if you're doing that, there are other, better combos that don't involve armageddoning yourself to hopefully win. And, beyond that, we all know that sometimes combos don't come together very well. Safekeeper can be okay when used fairly, but, in a traditional Nic Fit list, Titania is frankly pretty bad when used "fairly."

  7. #4007
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    463

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    I agree with everything you said.

    But I was rather mentioning Navsi's creature build.

    She is a not so bad S&T hate and she does go a long way in some grindy MU.
    I usually have a few lands in my yard (wasteland, fetch) and if there is no DRS, she brings 10 power onto the table.

    As far as Sylvan protector goes, I tried it long time ago. It was really really bad.

  8. #4008
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2013
    Location

    Paris, France
    Posts

    463

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    @ Tom

    Did you look @ my signature for your BUG Control Fit ?

    I know you like playing Probe, but well, I guess you were looking for some Trinket shenanigans !

    Grave Titan is a must to close many games unfortunately...

    I didn't adjust the list to deal with Eldrazi, though. Glissa might be needed somewhere.

  9. #4009
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2014
    Location

    Central New York
    Posts

    175

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Shit, I guess I asked a good question. Kudos to everyone giving me a lot of ideas to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    The biggest plus for a NO plan is that it will give you game against combo. With some early discard NO then turns into the fastest clock most nic fit decks can put together. It also allows for blowouts against other midrange decks where certain giant monsters are just too good.

    The negative is that it increases variance in the deck, can create situations where the cards are dead or psuedo-dead. NO is not reliable against control decks due to counters/terminus so I am certain it gets boarded out...
    Given the expected meta for the weekend (see: lack of control decks and limited/no miracles), I am looking at NO-Fit to sure up the plethora of combo pairings. What @Tom4ik writes is essentially what my gut feeling is telling me to do: run some discard, drop NO, profit against combo (where the standard lists struggle). For the more fair fights, I plan to kick their asses regardless. But then again, NO -> something stupid usually is enough to force concessions as well. I think NO only helps me in fair matchups.

    I am still favoring the idea of making NO an "option" rather than the sole gameplan. This is why I am sparked the discussion of having NO as a SB package or in the maindeck. I may very well be wrong...maybe you NEED to build around the card. I think it would be more of a "tweak the shell of Nic Fit to accomodate this variant" more than "you need to build around NO".

    Ideally, the finished deck would sequence something like:
    T1/2 discard, dork, early removal -> turn 3+ option to proceed with traditional Nic Fit plays OR
    T1/2 discard, dork, early removal -> turn 3+ option to to Natural Order

    @Arianrhod: You raise some excellent points. Solid tone as well, no offenses taken. I appreciate you picking my brain and explaining your thought process. You are so helpful :)

    I am a bit unclear of why you ultimately made the selections you did. I fall into the camp of "the NO targets should be minimal (2-3 homerun creatures max)". That's right in line with Elves.dec. I also agree with what @Echelon and @Tokugawa said.

    The allure of Natural Order is that it's a single, 4 mana card that says "I win" (hyperboling a little bit here) without the need of any further setup
    To become the core card of a deck, NO must ensure a "I win", or at least a 90% "I win" first.
    Again, if the meta holds similar to what was run in Feb, I won't have to deal with Terminus. Liliana will be a factor. GrisselDaddy may show up here and there, but likely in a Sneak/Show shell.

    I have a shortlist of NO targets: Sigarda ----> who is already in the deck. DL.Dromoka (Delver/BUG), Ruric Thar (Combo, Burn), Elderscale Wurm (Burn), Progenitus (2 turn clock), and maybe Worldspine Wurm (ultra-fast clock).

    This is rolling around in my head right now
    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Deathrite Shaman

    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    1 Eternal Witness

    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    1 NO Target #1: Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 NO Target #2: DL Dromoka/Ruric Thar

    5 Flex (Rhinos, Finks, additional Witness, Teeg, Thoughtseize, Paths)
    /18

    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Natural Order
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    /10

    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Abrupt Decay
    /10

  10. #4010
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,144

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    If doing that, definitely run Dryad Arbor so you can sac her to NO.

    An aside; IMO Sigarda is a *terrible* NO target. By all means, run it in the deck, but seriously paying 4 and sacing a dude to play a 5-drop is missing the point. I could be wrong here as you get 1-2 more swings with a 5/5 flyer; it just seems that a deck that can present 5-6 mana T2 it seems like you should be playing the big stuff.

    IMO, run Worldspine and Liliana (so you can discard it, which causes it to go back into your deck) and don't overthink it. It swings for lethal in basically a single turn and if you have a therapy you can also split him into 3 dudes against Plow decks.


    If you're insane, you could run Painter combo in the deck, turning everything green, and then NO as a second way to combo off into just straight up Emrakul. Also, honestly, natural painter combo could happen T2 with Veteran.

    Why isn't this a thing!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  11. #4011
    I wish I could read
    Ricardio's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2012
    Location

    Flur-ida, Murika
    Posts

    349

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    If doing that, definitely run Dryad Arbor so you can sac her to NO.

    An aside; IMO Sigarda is a *terrible* NO target. By all means, run it in the deck, but seriously paying 4 and sacing a dude to play a 5-drop is missing the point. I could be wrong here as you get 1-2 more swings with a 5/5 flyer; it just seems that a deck that can present 5-6 mana T2 it seems like you should be playing the big stuff.

    IMO, run Worldspine and Liliana (so you can discard it, which causes it to go back into your deck) and don't overthink it. It swings for lethal in basically a single turn and if you have a therapy you can also split him into 3 dudes against Plow decks.


    If you're insane, you could run Painter combo in the deck, turning everything green, and then NO as a second way to combo off into just straight up Emrakul. Also, honestly, natural painter combo could happen T2 with Veteran.

    Why isn't this a thing!?
    its too niche. I believe if you want to run NO, then switch decks or integrate a small packet(lol) into your list

    lik 2 NO, 1 arbor and a target for it that's castable eventually. Sigarda can be the right thing to get but I wouldn't consider it a target, nor would I consider DLD a good target. worldspine, elderscale, hellkite overlord? something that is not progenitals. you want to net mana when you 2 for one.
    MTGO: Ricardio

    Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck

    I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.

    "Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh

    IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/

  12. #4012
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Mead Hall Games, Minneapolis
    Posts

    58

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Actually in a red list the hellkite overlord isnt a bad target. NO when you have a few red as well and you can 10-spot someone. Its not the most castable but as a NO target it is the most immediate impact.

    I actually wouldnt mind a list that ran NO in the SB to bring in for the combo match ups. The issue is that at that point is it worth SB space over more hate cards. Against control it would be left/board out and against more of the midrange decks I think it would be fine as a haymaker but more actual creature beef at that spot might be better.

  13. #4013
    Pancake
    Bobmans's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2012
    Location

    Netherlands
    Posts

    852

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    Actually in a red list the hellkite overlord isnt a bad target.
    Swords to Plowshares... noty. Haste is very relevant. And so is flying. But as long as it cant dodge plow it is crap. Rather have Proggy then along with board control.
    Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
    Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
    4c Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    How about: ramp into Deed, clear the board, and bash your opponent's head in.

  14. #4014
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Mead Hall Games, Minneapolis
    Posts

    58

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmans View Post
    Swords to Plowshares... noty. Haste is very relevant. And so is flying. But as long as it cant dodge plow it is crap. Rather have Proggy then along with board control.
    Hmm... well NO gets wrecked by force of will so why bother playing that?

    A couple things, all the target presented also get hit by STP aside from Prog. Also, if we are NOing I would imagine we have therapied already. Nic fit has always had an issue with STP so that card will be good regardless of a NO build. I would not discount 8 damage to the face considering it is most likely 1 turn faster than Prog. Not to say that the card is an obvious best choice but it is certainly powerful enough to be a target. Whether its pros outway the pros of other options is a different question.

  15. #4015
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2014
    Location

    Central New York
    Posts

    175

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardio View Post
    its too niche. I believe if you want to run NO, then switch decks or integrate a small packet(lol) into your list

    lik 2 NO, 1 arbor and a target for it that's castable eventually. Sigarda can be the right thing to get but I wouldn't consider it a target, nor would I consider DLD a good target. worldspine, elderscale, hellkite overlord? something that is not progenitals. you want to net mana when you 2 for one.
    Hmm maybe a small NO package of 2 NO + 2 targets in the SB makes sense. Personally, I have poor luck with Nic Fit finding business. I'll be improving the number of filter/manipulation being run, but fairly often I'm hitting 4 mana and have nothing substantial to do with it. If the Rhino ain't there, I'm kinda sitting around holding removal or using smaller utility guys.

    @tescrin. I wouldn't say NO into Sigarda is terrible. There are several matchups I expect to see (mainly BUG) where just landing her means GG. Not every game lends itself to GSZ for 5 or "she's magically in my hand". At least for me, I have trouble finding the business a percentage of the time. There's also something to be said about Jace or Liliana stealing momentum from me (Nic Fit) around turns 3/4/5. Even if the end result is accelerating me by 1 turn, that could play out to be a substantial advantage.

  16. #4016

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    A couple random questions I had:

    1. How do people feel about a second Meren? I haven't had a chance to play much Legacy lately but in the back of my mind I've kept a comment Ralf (think that's the right user) made several months ago about lowering the curve of the deck. It was something I agreed with in general, this deck levels out around 4-5 mana usually, which means the largest thing you can GSZ super consistently is a 4 drop. This may be heresy but how do people feel about excluding the 6 drops, and even the 5 drops changing what is usually the Sigarda slot for a 2nd Meren? Sigarda could still have a place in the sideboard but I think I might like the G1 Meren plan more and then in G2 where GY hate might come in, take it out entirely for something big and strong on it's own like Sigarda. Part of me really likes the idea of putting down a Meren, building some counters, making the opponent go through the trouble of removing it, and then being able to get another Meren that already has some counters to work with.

    2. I've had something of a hobby lately in trying to write a computer script that can goldfish (or eventually play against an opponent with some interaction) games, in order to generate a huge dataset and compare through Magic's variance rather than rely on a very small and volatile sample size. I've applied the principal to two decks so far, Legacy Burn and Modern Knightfall. This approach doesn't work for Nic Fit because the deck isn't linear enough (all of the decisions in tutoring makes cards like Diabolic Intent and GSZ a nightmare to try and calculate fast enough to maintain a decent runtime on the script) , but my approach with other decks has shown me something interesting that I think crosses over which is that the optimal number of lands is much higher than typically believed. In my Knightfall deck for example the optimal mana count ended up being 28 lands 0 manadorks (the typical accepted number for that deck is 23/4). Obviously with 28 lands this means several lands need to also function as spells so that you have some insurance against flood. Now, it's just a guess on my part and I'm not advocating that many lands here because Veteran Explorer and Top are both additional factors to consider but I'm confident enough that I would put money on the optimal land count for Nic Fit being 24-25 rather than 22-23. What do people think about adding a few lands like Tabernacle (slows opponent, asymmetrical since we have excess mana, sac outlet) and Volrath's Stronghold to the deck alongside say 1 Crop Rotation to effectively double up on the tool box?

    3. Related to #2, in my Knightfall deck results I saw something extremely interesting, 61-63 card decks were performing equally well to 60 card decks. In some cases the fastest configuration was above 60 cards and in other cases it was close. In all cases there were 61+ card decks that performed within the margin of error (we're talking within 0.01 average win turn, over 250,000+ games per configuration). My explanation for this is that having the chance of drawing a needed card is worth the added inconsistency of going over 60, and tutors/top make this happen even more often. I bring this up here because it's quite popular for Nic Fit to run 61 cards already but I'm wondering if we're actually not going high enough with 61. At 62 cards, your extra card is probably a land, which would mean 63 cards would be the next spot to try. Has this ever been seriously considered?

  17. #4017

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    I like Meren a lot, and also don't mind the idea of exceeding 60 cards (though most people cringe at the idea).
    Is Karador, Ghost Chieftain still of interest?

    Could we put together a flow chart (similar to the Chains of Mephistopheles flow chart http://imgur.com/gallery/UBs6lD9) for Meren, because on Cockatrice, almost nobody understands the freaking card, and it gets irritating explaining it over and over again, not only online, but I expect in person it is similarly annoying.

  18. #4018
    Salt of the earth
    sdematt's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Canada
    Posts

    4,655

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    A couple random questions I had:



    3. Related to #2, in my Knightfall deck results I saw something extremely interesting, 61-63 card decks were performing equally well to 60 card decks. In some cases the fastest configuration was above 60 cards and in other cases it was close. In all cases there were 61+ card decks that performed within the margin of error (we're talking within 0.01 average win turn, over 250,000+ games per configuration). My explanation for this is that having the chance of drawing a needed card is worth the added inconsistency of going over 60, and tutors/top make this happen even more often. I bring this up here because it's quite popular for Nic Fit to run 61 cards already but I'm wondering if we're actually not going high enough with 61. At 62 cards, your extra card is probably a land, which would mean 63 cards would be the next spot to try. Has this ever been seriously considered?
    It's a good point, honestly. Going up more cards doesn't hurt our percentages much, but it still does. It's worth trying.

    I was supposed to go to a larger tournament Saturday, but stuff came up, so I won't be testing my life. Boo.

    -Matt
    "I only drink whiskey older than my girlfriends. It's an expensive hobby at either end of the scale, no matter which way you work it. Do you go with an expensive lady, or a smooth drink? It's a real dilemma."

    "I'm your Huckleberry."

    "If it takes more than a day to decide, you'll never decide"

    Apparently John Cox, LordofthePit, Einherjer, Mr. Safety, Imnotbrown, Treefolk Master, and Parax love what I have to say.

  19. #4019
    Gender: 'Attack Helicopter'

    Join Date

    Dec 2015
    Posts

    46

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    RUG/BUG/Grixis delver decks seem to be increasing exponentially at my LGS. I'm currently only at 50/50 success rate (25 matches or so) with the deck listed below, so I assume I'm doing something wrong. In G2 I take out 1xPruths, 1xMeren, 1xSylvan and 1xEternal Witness (they all go anti-gy in g2) and I bring in 2xCarpets, 1xChoke and another Toxic Deluge. What would you do?


    //21 Lands
    1 Bayou
    3 Forest
    1 Karakas
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Plains
    1 Savannah
    3 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    1 Taiga
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Windswept Heath

    //25 Spells
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Diabolic Intent
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Painful Truths
    4 Path to Exile
    3 Pernicious Deed
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Vindicate

    //15 Creatures
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Dragonlord Dromoka
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    4 Veteran Explorer

    //Sideboard
    SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
    SB: 1 Choke
    //^^ always lots of islands in the room

    SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
    // ^^ Elves and Storm

    SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 3 Thoughtseize
    // ^^ blue combos galore

    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    // ^^ Lands and combo galore

    SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
    // ^^ Tezz, MUD and Vial

    SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
    // ^^ anyCreatures.dec

    SB: 2 Slaughter Games
    // ^^ Lands, combos, miracles

  20. #4020
    Member

    Join Date

    Aug 2014
    Location

    Central New York
    Posts

    175

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmmm_Really? View Post
    RUG/BUG/Grixis delver decks seem to be increasing exponentially at my LGS. I'm currently only at 50/50 success rate (25 matches or so) with the deck listed below, so I assume I'm doing something wrong. In G2 I take out 1xPruths, 1xMeren, 1xSylvan and 1xEternal Witness (they all go anti-gy in g2) and I bring in 2xCarpets, 1xChoke and another Toxic Deluge. What would you do?
    I disagree with some of this logic. Sylvan is one of the best cards against Delver in general. It's a FoW bait card...and if they let you have it, you crush them in CA.
    You need Pulse, Scooze #2, and Thalia (not Canonist) in the SB.


    RUG -- you stop delver and goyf, that's most of their offense. By default I'd bring in 3 Surgicals. They wasteland you once they lose it for the game. Any business in the yard? Cantrips? RFG. I took out a dude's ponders AND trops (vind -> trop -> surgical on G sources). Shave 1 deed (you got more than enough removal), 1 truths, 1 Diabolic Intent (as you don't want to give up any creatures clogging up the board. My personal philosophy here. If you run Thalia over Canonist, she's a must-have.

    BUG -- pain in the ass. Ride Sigarda into the sunset. If you know this is in the meta in significant numbers, you could also pack smiters/baloths/WLL or other "free into play off your opponent's discard effect" creatures. Trim lackluster spells (truths, diabolic, possibly Meren) for the team of Scooze, Thalia, Surgical. Choke is randomly good too.

    Against Shardless, I trade some Veterans for Carpets to match their velocity. If they hit 3 mana, expect to see all the toys: cantrips, agent -> visions or liliana. Choke and surgical are your call here. More techy lists near me make it hard to decide on surgical because the removal and bounce packages often include miser 1x delve-instants. I don't bring in Choke against shardless because they get too much mana.

    Grixis --- depends on the build. Toxic and Surgicals fo sho.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)