[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Arianrhod]

SOI Mechanics Article

Under the new rules, the converted mana cost of the back face of a DFC is based on the mana cost of the front face

Huntmaster can no longer be Abrupt Decay - ed. Seems nice to have.[/QUOTE]

Was just coming here to post this. That also makes Garruk Relentless several orders of magnitude better.

[Ricardio]

Huntmaster can no longer be Abrupt Decay - ed. Seems nice to have.

Was just coming here to post this. That also makes Garruk Relentless several orders of magnitude better.[/QUOTE]

omg this is interesting news. delver still dies to decay so FTB. Garruk seems better like you said.

[Jain_Mor]

FYI they changed the rules on double faced cards, the back side now has the same CMC as the front side :D

This means a flipped Garruk relentless no longer dies to abrupt decay :D
Bad news is deed for 0 will no longer kill flipped delver..

Wish that was the rule to begin with, I'm still salty that my flipped delver, Garruk and wolf token all died to a ratchet bomb way back in an FNM standard -.-

[Arianrhod]

I think I'm fine trading not being able to EE/Deed@0 to kill flipped Delvers with Garruk being notably better.

In fact, this change makes EE -much- better against Delver, because now EE@1 will hit 8/12 of their creatures, whereas before their 12 were split 4/4/4 across 0/1/2 cmc.

[Navsi]

It also means that our own Deeds can more reliably be one-sided in Jund since we can sweep for X<=3 and not kill flipped Huntmaster.

[Jain_Mor]

I think I'm fine trading not being able to EE/Deed@0 to kill flipped Delvers with Garruk being notably better.

In fact, this change makes EE -much- better against Delver, because now EE@1 will hit 8/12 of their creatures, whereas before their 12 were split 4/4/4 across 0/1/2 cmc.

Lol I was so late. And yea that's a really good point Arianrhod.

Hmm... Is Garruk relent a main deck card or side? What kind of builds does he fit in? I've never really tried him in legacy of modern because of dying to bolt and decay. I guess he works well with equipment? ;)

[Ricardio]

Lol I was so late. And yea that's a really good point Arianrhod.

Hmm... Is Garruk relent a main deck card or side? What kind of builds does he fit in? I've never really tried him in legacy of modern because of dying to bolt and decay. I guess he works well with equipment? ;)

garruk is the sideboard pw. He is 2/2s ever turn. he kills a small creature to flip and then pump out 1/1 peepee-touchers. You can sack one to tutor up a rhino or overrun for the kill outta nowhere.

[Bobmans]

garruk is the sideboard pw. He is 2/2s ever turn. he kills a small creature to flip and then pump out 1/1 peepee-touchers. You can sack one to tutor up a rhino or overrun for the kill outta nowhere.

He is very good vs Miracles and control on overall.

[Tom4ik]

Good thing Decay still hits the new blue wall, because that thing is going to be absurd.

[Ralf]

Good thing Decay still hits the new blue wall, because that thing is going to be absurd.

Kinda like that new wall, actually.

CMC 2 will be busted in a gitaxian shell I guess.
Because if not it's gonna be a little slow for the Legacy meta (T4 at the soonest)

[Tom4ik]

I like that you can actually just eot smth like brainstorm to bounce dudes and swing with a monster while holding mana up for when they bring them back down. Helps out against aggro decks as a wall that could at anytime nuke their board. sort of like when you have a deed in play they have to beat the board but not get wiped out by deed.

If nothing else its some sweet flavor card that has high upside. I can also dream about bouncing my own snaps/witnesses for all the value too right?

[Ralf]

If nothing else its some sweet flavor card that has high upside. I can also dream about bouncing my own snaps/witnesses for all the value too right?

Yep, anything with an ETB trigger reads value at that point !

[Ricardio]

the card looks promising but im too lazy to test it.

[Tom4ik]

I would love to play some probe, therapy, strix, snap deck where the bounce is actually a plus for us. Gsz triggering the flip getting the creature and having absurd amounts of power in play seems really cool. Not sure Nic fit is the best place for that as I am not sure the 2 game plans line up a whole lot but I do know this card has real potential.

[maharis]

I would love to play some probe, therapy, strix, snap deck where the bounce is actually a plus for us. Gsz triggering the flip getting the creature and having absurd amounts of power in play seems really cool. Not sure Nic fit is the best place for that as I am not sure the 2 game plans line up a whole lot but I do know this card has real potential.

If you take the last counter off this with a GSZ, the trigger will resolve first, clearing the board, then you will resolve GSZ and put another creature into play. Super beating.

[Brael]

It's a good point, honestly. Going up more cards doesn't hurt our percentages much, but it still does. It's worth trying.

-Matt

I played around with this idea of how large a deck can be taken a bit more. My basis for the maximum size is based on when the mana starts to get weaker. In my opinion there's no reason to go beyond 60/61 unless you're not just getting tutor targets out of it, but that your mana situation is also improving. With that in mind I pushed the manabase to 12 fetches and some utility lands. My theory being that once fetches cease to be optimal, it's time to stop increasing the deck size. That results in the following manabase (swap lands to preference), 27 lands.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

If you count that up it's 27 lands and it can support color fixing better than 61 card lists up to 73 cards.

From that point, there are a few other cards to add to maintain consistency. Most notably you need more tutors, sac outlets, and mana acceleration. Keeping this proportional requires adding to the stock lists 2 Deathrite Shaman, 1 Diabolic Intent, 1 Crop Rotation, 1 SDT, and 1 Deed.

So out of the +13 cards 5 need to be lands and 6 need to be support, which leaves you with just +2 tutor options for a near 25% increase in deck size (and I found that in practice 1 of those 2 should probably be removal).

So the conclusion is that you're adding 13 cards to gain 1 tutor target which just doesn't seem worth it.

For reference, this was the 73 card list I came up with
Land 27
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas

Creatures 20
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells 18
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Painful Truths
2 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abzan Charm
1 Crop Rotation

Artifact 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment 4
4 Pernicious Deed

All in all it just doesn't really seem worth it having to jump through that many hoops and weakening the Therapy/Explorer combo to gain such a small boost to the toolbox.

Considering that it took 13 cards to add one more, that brings me back to the conclusion that 61 is likely the strongest configuration.

[Tom4ik]

If you take the last counter off this with a GSZ, the trigger will resolve first, clearing the board, then you will resolve GSZ and put another creature into play. Super beating.

I know right!!! Tutor up a big green haste monster and crash.

Therapy plays great with this guy, so does gsz (creature that takes a counter off). Painful truths/library would be nice refill late game. Man, this with thragtusks!

[Weast]

Shusher is INSANE, it lets you win games vs reanimator and Sneak strats because u can GSZ for him early once putting your opp on snt and then it lets you scapeshift even after they have a million cards via grislebrand, lets you play under miracles CB to resolve a deed, or even just a scapeshift to kill them, Lets you play veterans and therapies under a chalice @1 vs stompy and tezzeret strats, vs delver you can play without fear of pierce and FOW, at worst uncounterable blocker

i dont have any general tips for the deck other than to think of it as a control deck that CAN combo. you never want to get trapped into thinking you need to combo or keep hands because it has fast mana and a scapeshift, you need to control the game as best as possible and get to the point where youve exhausted your opponents resources enough to be able to scapeshift them, also know the deck 100%

If you need room for the shusher (if you want to add it in) I would cut either Ooze(personally seems too slow to me, not really needed in any of the matchups we would want it against as we are favored vs all those decks) or cut E.Wit, card always under preforms for me at most i get back a land that was wasted or therapy to cast 2 more times, which is good but not worth the 3 mana imo

This is my current list updated for Shusher.


//Artifact (2)
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//Creature (14)
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Vexing Shusher

//Enchantment (4)
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library

//Sorcery (16)
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Painful Truths
2 Scapeshift

//Land (24)
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Wooded Foothills

//Sideboard
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
2 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge


Still a pretty standard list. This talk about new DFC rule, I want to try out Garruk Relentless.

[Tokugawa]

When would the new DFC rules apply? The day when SOI released?

[Bobmans]

Yesterday night and friend of mine and me sat down for a number of games. I played Rhino's Abbondanza sig list and he was on the SCG top8 RGb Lands list. Perfect MU for testing since that is going te be one to take into account in the current meta. I ended up winning 2-0, 2-1, 1-0. The deck seems to be slower then straight RG Lands, misses PFire (which would defenitly killed me a couple of games) and it dredges worse (binning it's removal/pressure (Molten Vortex)). On the other hand, Molten Vortex on the BF can spit out 6/8 damage a turn with ease, but dies to Decay/Deed and can be Needled. Some notes;
* Surgical Extraction is THE best card against lands. It hits Depths, Loam, etcand does so T0. The good part is that Surgical is not a narrow card to run, like say Blood Moon.
* 4 Path to Exile really helped. Between SDT and a lot of shuffle effect i was able to hold back Marit Lage enough to squeeze thru a win, even G1.
* Karakas was decend, but holdin back Karakas until it becomes relevant is important. And after it gets Wasteland a Eternal Witness brings it back once more.
* Scavanging Ooze is really strong in this MU, but he needs to eat at least 3 creatures to stay alive. So Mana mana mana.
* being able to live of entirely of Basics really helps here. I spammed the shit out of Dora. Again having 7 basics was just perfect.
* one game went long and i hit Nissa. That card really boosted my game and buried him in CA.
* Pithing Needle really shined, hitting Maze of Ith was relevant for winning.
* Sigarda is next to impossible for them to get rid of. Plus it dodges Maze.
* DRS seems good but actually is shit since it get removed asap.
* I boarded out 3 Decay, 1 Rhino and DLD for 1 QPM, 2 Surgical, 1 Peedle and 1 Golgari Charm.
* Charm hits Vortex, Dark Confidant (which i didnt see since he didnt board them) and regens a Sigarda blocking Marit Lage.
* Siege Rhino helped me win. The final game we played was a struggle on both sides. I had Courser out and Siege Rhino. I was on 22 life. And i was holding Karakas and Eternal Wintness. After trading resouces, and topdecking a Path i was left on 4 life, E.Witness and Rhino, whilr he had 2 Mazes and he was on 3 life. I got to untap knowing i'd die if i pass the turn. So he asks me; "Do you have a Lightning Bolt?", and laughs. So i said; "No, but this looks very similar.". I tap 4 mana and slam Rhino at the table and both laughed.