[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[rubblekill]

I think with the current meta, a pw bug fit list with innocent blood and abyssal persecutor could be good. Alongside lily and garruk to get tokens out.

A bug deed-walkers list with jtms, lotv, and garruk? That sounds interesting to say the least, but deed is a nonbo with tokens. I'd like to play a pernicious jace deck online. Too bad that I'm never going to buy liliana for its current price online

[Bobmans]

I think with the current meta, a pw bug fit list with innocent blood and abyssal persecutor could be good. Alongside lily and garruk to get tokens out.

Can also add oath of Nissa and maybe even a 4th color. Nicol Bolas PW ;-P

[Ricardio]

Can also add oath of Nissa and maybe even a 4th color. Nicol Bolas PW ;-P

But oath in a deed deck is sketchy, hombre. ALBEIT, I like the idea of resolving nico bolas but wouldn't it be insane to have him and ugin in the same deck?!

[Bobmans]

Your right about Deed, somehow i forgot..... 'smacks head'.
Nicol and Ugin would be madsauce.
We also have;
Karn
Vraska
Kiora
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Next to
Lilibitch and Jace the MoFo
Red itself doesnt open up really inpressive other PW's other then mediocre Dack and Daretti.
Chandra's with their RR are to much to carry of straight out bad.
But red does give PFire, Slaughter Games and Kolaghan's Command.

[Tom4ik]

Your right about Deed, somehow i forgot..... 'smacks head'.
Nicol and Ugin would be madsauce.
We also have;
Karn
Vraska
Kiora
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Next to
Lilibitch and Jace the MoFo
Red itself doesnt open up really inpressive other PW's other then mediocre Dack and Daretti.
Chandra's with their RR are to much to carry of straight out bad.
But red does give PFire, Slaughter Games and Kolaghan's Command.

If you move to red for pfire then Dack is actually really good. Between Jace and Dack you would be able to dig really hard. The question would be how do we take advantage of the graveyard we would build.

[Bobmans]

If you move to red for pfire then Dack is actually really good. Between Jace and Dack you would be able to dig really hard. The question would be how do we take advantage of the graveyard we would build.

Well, i'm still pondering with the idea of Intuition and Life from the Loam. Being able to grab Loam+Grove+PFire or E.Witness+Stronghold+Loam looks very interesting. Which also gives the option to run an artifact sideboard along with Academy Ruins, Glissa and Trinket Mage. Or a singleton Wasteland (or Ghost Quarter)

On BUG Superfriends. I just played a list it thrown together real fast and played a few games vs Deadguy Ale. It is a grindfest. Real fun, but i feel that "regular" BUG NicFit is just stonger. Here's a list for interested;


3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Thragtusk

1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Innocent Blood

2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower

[Jaytron]

Jaytron, post a list of what you are thinking of. I have been on Bug midrange (essentially shardless-less shardless, so more snap casters and such) but have been meaning to brew a nic fit deck again.

This is what I'm thinking of so far based on suggestions from the last few pages.

I want to have some fun with Deadeye Navigator, lol. I've won countless EDH games on the back of DEN

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Baleful Strix
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Fierce Empath
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deadeye Navigator
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sylvan Library
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Notion Thief
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle

[Captain Hammer]

Looks like all the recent lists have moved away from Birthing Pod :(

Why? Pod serves so many different functions in the deck. I have won so many games off of turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Baleful Stix, turn 3 Pod -> dominate the rest off the game using Pod shenanigans. The card was broken enough to be banned in Modern in a hurtty.

Is there is a reason why no one is playing it these days?

[Bobmans]

Looks like all the recent lists have moved away from Birthing Pod :(

Why? Pod serves so many different functions in the deck. I have won so many games off of turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Baleful Stix, turn 3 Pod -> dominate the rest off the game using Pod shenanigans. The card was broken enough to be banned in Modern in a hurtty.

Is there is a reason why no one is playing it these days?

Pod requires more creatures and thus loosing on removal and CA engines.
Pod lists lean very heavy on pod, and thus are softer to disruption.
Pod lists without pod become are more random pile of cards.
Non-pod NicFit lists have a better early/midgame.
Cards in non-pod lists do not need each other to interact. Each card does something on it's own and always in some way contribute. Pod list card can be very narrow / to foccused.

However, ramping Pod into SFM into K.Finks is pretty busted aswell.

[gigapatrick]

Looks like all the recent lists have moved away from Birthing Pod :(

Why? Pod serves so many different functions in the deck. I have won so many games off of turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Baleful Stix, turn 3 Pod -> dominate the rest off the game using Pod shenanigans. The card was broken enough to be banned in Modern in a hurtty.

Is there is a reason why no one is playing it these days?

Bug Pod is probably the funnest Legacy deck I have ever played. Don't let people tell you it isn't great, because it is. Just jam it.

[Sarda'z]

On BUG Superfriends subject: I'm testing this list online, with very variable results. Gotta say it's the strangest/coolest deck brought to a Legacy table...


Nic Fit - BUG Walkers (Turbo Oath)

22 Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest

8 Creatures:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer

12 Planeswalkers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Vraska, the Unseen
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

18 Other Spells:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Oath of Jace

15 Sideboard:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3-4 Thoughtseize
2-3 Surgical Extraction
0-1 Maelstrom Pulse
0-2 Toxic Deluge
0-3 Innocent Blood
0-2 Krosan Grip
0-2 Carpet of Flowers
0-1 Notion Thief
0-1 Null Rod
0-1 Submerge
0-1 Dismember
0-3 Negate
0-1 Scavenging Ooze
0-2 Arcane Laboratory
0-2 Chill
0-1 Wurmcoil / Batterskull

More Walkers for testing:
* Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
* Kiora, the Crashing Wave
* Garruk, Apex Predator



Playtest (on XMage): 8-4 (17-13)

Merfolk: 2-1 / 2-1
Jund: 2-0
Parfeit: 2-1
Reanimator: 0-2
S&T: 2-1 / 1-2
Elves: 2-1 / 0-2 / 2-0
Eldrazi: 2-0
Burn: 0-2

No Delver, Shardless or Miracles so far o.O

[TLK]

That looks like so much fun I wouldn't even care if I lost every match 0-2.

[Ricardio]

looks solid but oath of jace seems like an awful card.

[TLK]

Yeah, that's the one card that stuck out to me as well.

[TTX]

looks solid but oath of jace seems like an awful card.

I agree. I think it would be better as Brainstorm.

Also I don't see the point of running Dryad Arbor in this list.
You're banking on Pernicious Deeds almost every game.

[Brael]

Looks like all the recent lists have moved away from Birthing Pod :(

Why? Pod serves so many different functions in the deck. I have won so many games off of turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 Baleful Stix, turn 3 Pod -> dominate the rest off the game using Pod shenanigans. The card was broken enough to be banned in Modern in a hurtty.

Is there is a reason why no one is playing it these days?

I ran pod for a long time, Rhino is way better though.

The big problem with Pod is that if you're going the bug route, most of the best creatures to run are blue (and they take UU even so there's a toll on your manabase) but GSZ demands that your creatures be green. It puts this really difficult tension in the deck where you don't have enough slots for anything and pod/gsz interact poorly, the best spot to pod from is 2 to 3 (and the 2's are blue with Strix) but the best spot to GSZ is for x=4, so your optimal GSZ leads to poor Pod options.

Junk Pod is probably your best bet BUG just has too many pieces that trip over each other, but it still suffers from there being no good 2 drops to GSZ for, even though I found in the end that it was better to include GSZ than not.

[Bobmans]

Couple of SoI lands spoiled today. Not to interesting, but 2 lands with Green combined Blue and Black. So perhaps we can expect some juice in BG or UG colors.

[Echelon]

I ran pod for a long time, Rhino is way better though.

The big problem with Pod is that if you're going the bug route, most of the best creatures to run are blue (and they take UU even so there's a toll on your manabase) but GSZ demands that your creatures be green. It puts this really difficult tension in the deck where you don't have enough slots for anything and pod/gsz interact poorly, the best spot to pod from is 2 to 3 (and the 2's are blue with Strix) but the best spot to GSZ is for x=4, so your optimal GSZ leads to poor Pod options.

Junk Pod is probably your best bet BUG just has too many pieces that trip over each other, but it still suffers from there being no good 2 drops to GSZ for, even though I found in the end that it was better to include GSZ than not.

I still like the idea of skip-a-pod. It involves Fierce Empath, tutoring a 6 or 7 CMC delve creature and podding that into Elesh Norn/Griselbrand/whatever floats your big ass boat. Seems less durdly than most Pod lists. Just GSZ/Pod to 3 CMC, get Empath and that Delve creature, cast it for 1 mana and Pod that into your gamewinner. Who needs value when you have bombs? And if you draw into it - Brainstorm!

[Sarda'z]

Oath of Jace (and nissa's too) are there for the lol sake =P
Although I follow the thought that brainstorm is just better, there's nothing like scrying for 1, 2, 3 and just keep spamming walkers...

The dryad arbor is trick to protect some walker... enemy thinks "I'll just send one guy to hit liliana's face, nothing to worry", then arbor comes to save the day (all fetches find it)!

[Brael]

I still like the idea of skip-a-pod. It involves Fierce Empath, tutoring a 6 or 7 CMC delve creature and podding that into Elesh Norn/Griselbrand/whatever floats your big ass boat. Seems less durdly than most Pod lists. Just GSZ/Pod to 3 CMC, get Empath and that Delve creature, cast it for 1 mana and Pod that into your gamewinner. Who needs value when you have bombs? And if you draw into it - Brainstorm!

A small disclaimer here, most of my skip pod experience comes from Modern, though I have tried it in Legacy.

Fierce Empath has a couple of problems, the biggest is in actually getting it. If you go the pod route you need a bunch of 2 drops to sacrifice but the 2 drop quality drops off sharply after Baleful Strix which itself isn't green. If you increase your 2 drops, due to the necessary spell count of the format and the deck the rest of your pod chain gets pretty thin, to the point that it's not all that uncommon to interrupt the rest of your chain. 22 lands, 4 pods, 2 6's, 2 7's, 1 empath, 4 vet, 4 therapy, 4 removal, 3 top, 4 strix, and you're already at 50 cards. Unless you want to be a 1 trick pony that's relying on a 4 cost artifact and 3 card combo those remaining 10 slots just aren't enough to squeeze in what you need and Brainstorm makes the problem even worse. The other route is to draw Empath but that means running probably 2 Empath and 4 GSZ, but if you look at the rest of the deck in those 50 slots (or now 55) there's just not room for any targets.

The other issue is that it's fragile. A common mistake with Pod is that people think it's good for getting things they can't normally cast and that's just not the case. Pod works best when you have a legitimate plan to cast every card in your deck. That way you can play what you draw, and activate Pod every single turn. In that case it's like getting 2 cards/turn and one of them is always high quality. 6 drops in Pod don't work well, even with Empath. Note that skip pod is extremely vulnerable to counters on your skip piece if you're doing something like casting Tasigur/Angler.

If you want to skip a spot on the curve, it's actually best to go from 2 to 4. Rhino at 4 is the obvious candidate, but Rhino sadly means 4 colors. Fortunately there's now Meren who has excellent synergy with Pod. There are several 3 drops in blue that let you skip a step. The first is Trinket Mage into Voltaic Key, next is Pestermite, then Deciever Exarch. Depending on how much you want to rely on Brainstorm you also have Derevi to go from 2 to 4 as well as Zealous Conscripts to go from 4 to 6. This all comes back to the issue that there's few good 2 drops to Pod. After Baleful Strix the best option is Voice of Resurgence, and if you run high numbers of either the rest of the deck suffers. When I last tried BUG Pod this was the deck skeleton for my list.

21 Land
23 Creatures
3 Pod
10 Spells

Creature curve was
4 1 CMC
6 2 CMC
5 3 CMC
6 4 CMC
1 5 CMC
1 6 CMC

Everything from 1-5 included atleast 1 GSZ target: Veteran Explorer, Coiling Oracle, Finks, Meren, and Thragtusk and I cheated on Tops by using Trinket Mage to tutor for it.

Honestly, the truth is I've long thought that Trinket Mage is the trick to making Pod work. Not being green is a problem but I really like the chains of Trinket Mage find Hangarback Walker, pod into Master Biomancer, play Hangarback Walker and play Trinket Mage, tutor for Voltaic Key, pod Mage into Glen Elendra, pod Glen Elendra into 5 drop. Even tapping top for a card, podding into Mage, and retutoring your Top isn't the worst thing in the world. There's maybe a viable deck in there somewhere but Nic Fit probably isn't the right shell even if it hits all the same colors.