[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

I think you need to build BUG with the BG base and then add the cards in U that make the splash worth it.

[Warden]

Well, adding Glissa, Trinket Mage, SDT, Engineered Explosives, Ratchet Bomb, Sylvan Library & Deed might be a good start. You could start with something like this:

10 fetch (having a lot of fetch is good for Deathrite + Delirium)
1 dual/color combination (3 total)
2 each basic (6 total)
1 Academy Ruins
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor? (Since Meren)

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Trinket Mage
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Ponder (I think you want digging power over Brainstorms. Also, it's a sorcery)
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald

It's the start of a very grindy list with some potential to recur stuff. Takes up a lot of slots though, and doesn't leave much room for meaty targets.

There's something in here with all that card digging/filtering that works well. But there's a lot of noise to filter out too.
I think Traverse the Ulvenwald should at most be 1-2x. I don't think it's more important than Ponder/Top.

The other problem is the lack of a beater/win the game creature (and I know it's a shell). I'd have at least 2 true win-cons in my shell, as that generally influences utility picks IMHO.

[TTX]

I like the Trinket Mage/Glissa interaction, maybe you could squeeze in a Nihil Spellbomb or Aether Spellbomb too. At least for the board.


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[pettdan]

... which reminds me, I always wanted to play Glissa with Executioner's Capsule. Not saying it's good enough but with Glissa and a Trinket Mage around it would be tempting.

In other news I really enjoyed Vindicate in my Rhino build vs Miracles, I'm going to try upping that number even though it is already a removal heavy deck.

I liked Warden's comment on playing 1-2 Traverse the Ulvenwald in BUG. You don't really need it for accellerating your mana in the early turns (1 land to hand is a bit mediocre, but still a potential mana fixer) so 1-2 for getting the big finisher in the late game in BUG colors seems ok to me.

[Warden]

... which reminds me, I always wanted to play Glissa with Executioner's Capsule. Not saying it's good enough but with Glissa and a Trinket Mage around it would be tempting.

In other news I really enjoyed Vindicate in my Rhino build vs Miracles, I'm going to try upping that number even though it is already a removal heavy deck.

I liked Warden's comment on playing 1-2 Traverse the Ulvenwald in BUG. You don't really need it for accellerating your mana in the early turns (1 land to hand is a bit mediocre, but still a potential mana fixer) so 1-2 for getting the big finisher in the late game in BUG colors seems ok to me.

^^Exactly. I think blue gives you LOTS of options to dig for lands (cantrips, gitax, strix, fringe options like coiling oracle, etc).
You'd ideally drop Traverse late as the win-con tutor.

@Trinket: I've always felt he was too cute -- but Aether Spellbomb is a line I totally forgot about. Guess he also directly tutors for needle / top / specific artifact GY hate, so it's not the worst card to run as a 1x.

[Echelon]

So I pull a BUG Fit list out of my ass and it isn't just a piece of crap?

Wow, I'm amazed.

Maybe someone else would want to revise the list, take it through some changes? You know, make it a communal thing. Who's up for it?

[Bobboviking]

Been brewing a bit at work today and came up with this list building on the base mentioned earlier:
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins
2 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Trinket Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Keiga, the Tide Star

4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald

1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives

1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Not really sure how it would hold up against a field of somewhat competative legacy decks but i guess it should do fine against anything not combo?
If you worry about combo you can always pack your SB full of hate and focus on g2 and g3.

I think Jace is a must in a deck that theoretically can cast him t2 and he doubles as a much needed wincon. Looking at this list im not sure i would give up playing my rhinos for it but there might be something there. A thought i had was that Tarmogoyf might be good in this deck but if you go down that route i guess you might want to revise the creatures altoghether or just play shardless.

[Arianrhod]

Both Frost and Grave Titan are better than Keiga, as is Kokusho. The two best 6-drops (period, not just in bug) are Con Sphinx and Deadeye Nav, but your list isn't really set up for Deadeye bullshit, so we go further down the list.

[Tao]

Keiga, Kokusho, Deadeye Navigator and Frost Titan are all horrible. They are gimmicky and unreliable.

Also I do not believe in Traverse the Ulvenwald. GSZ is great because it is a 2-Mana Explorer as well as a mid- and lategame bomb. Traverse is a better bomb but early on extremely weak. I am not sure if GSZ is nessecary in BUG but I am sure it is better than Traverse.

And why would you run Ruins over Stronghold? Both get Strix. Then Ruins only gets the singleton Explosives while Stronghold has at least 6 useful targets, especially Witness (plus Thragtusk if you decide to play it).

What I also don't understand is why people dont play Primeval Titan in BUG or Fire lists. In BUG you can get either 2 Creeping Tar Pits or your Two-Towers. That is amazing value.

[Ricardio]

So I am going to test BUG Fit: first list

4 VET
1 Baleful Strix
1 ewit
1 glissa
1 thragtusk
1 prime time (9)

2 lotv
2 jtms
1 garruk Relentless
1 Karn (6)

1 GSZ
4 therapy
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
2 g probe
3 decay
4 deed
3 force (23)

(38 cards)

2-4 prime time lands like CTP, etc.

Thinking about oath of nissa/traverse/nico bolas

Questions and Comments always welcome.

[Warden]

...Also I do not believe in Traverse the Ulvenwald. GSZ is great because it is a 2-Mana Explorer as well as a mid- and lategame bomb. Traverse is a better bomb but early on extremely weak. I am not sure if GSZ is nessecary in BUG but I am sure it is better than Traverse...

I see Traverse as a compliment to GSZ, not a replacement. The real question is how to consistently enable the "tutor for a creature" trigger. BUG is better equipped to dump various card types into the GY because it can run cantrips and shit like Strix to diversify archetypes covered. But by the same token, if you can run blue's suite of cantrips -- is Traverse even necessary?

@Ricardio: you need more threats + some toxic D (since walkers are not affected by that sweeper).

[Ralf]

So I am going to test BUG Fit: first list

4 VET
1 Baleful Strix
1 ewit
1 glissa
1 thragtusk
1 prime time (9)

2 lotv
2 jtms
1 garruk Relentless
1 Karn (6)

1 GSZ
4 therapy
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
2 g probe
3 decay
4 deed
3 force (23)

(38 cards)

2-4 prime time lands like CTP, etc.

Thinking about oath of nissa/traverse/nico bolas

Questions and Comments always welcome.

Here are some food for thoughts (cuz I have been there, you know):

1) I'm not a fan of FOW in this deck. During my testing, you don't always have the blue card to pitch to it and, except Jace, our CA engine is "bad" (and FOW is CDA).
2) I would replace a deed with a pulse. Having a "catch-all" in BUG is mandatory to say the least.
3) I have eschewed all double mana cost requirement with CMC <4. The only one you can afford is Liliana. You'll lose to many games because you need B,G & U as your first 3 basics. This means Witness & Glissa have to go.
4) I also have cut strixes for wall of blossoms. U is usually the last basic you want; we usually don't live or die by a T2 BS. I found that having most of the deck operating with B & G for the first turns is where we want to be. So you want to be able to cast veteran/cabal/decay/blossoms everyday using basic lands only.
5) Blue should, imho, be "the splash color". Playing Ponder is really tempting but this goes against point n°4 (you really don't want U by T1).
6) Scavenging Ooze is mandatory. Walker Fit is a very "hard" control deck. You'll go very low (Life wise) and Ooze will save your butt countless times when both yards are full of creatures. Not to mention that it is THE RULER against any punishing deck or any graveyard based strategy (to which Walker Fit is very weak to, as manland strategy). A 10+/10+ Ooze is rather the rule than the exception.

You have a link to my latest Walker Fit list in my signature. It was very good "PRE" Eldrazi area but I didn't test it since:
- Ob Nixilis is not mandatory. His ulty is game, though. I loved Ashiok but as a 1-off, it was too random/not as much powerful as Ob Nixilis/Vraska (but an all-star against control). Vraska was also really nice (dealing with opposite Jace for example) but I think Ob Nixilis' ulty is better. Karn is tempting BUT alas slower than the others to eventually kill your opponent.
- Not very happy with the second GSZ to be honest. But still the deck NEEDS to assemble veteran + a sacrifice effect.

So, I guess this is two "free" slots for anything.

Have fun (and you'll have fun if you like control deck; because this is among the hardest control deck I have ever played with).

[Ricardio]

Thanks Ralf, I will use your knowledge and sculpt a newer list.

[Ralf]

Thanks Ralf, I will use your knowledge and sculpt a newer list.

You are welcome, sir. With your help, we might be to sculpt something more competitive.

If you need them I also have quite a few sideboard tables for the most common MU.

Ps: for the record the 2nd GSZ was a lone SDT for a very long period. It worked quite well; but SDT games tend to last even longer...

[Ricardio]

I do not like wall but you made some good points.

The current 60:

4 Vet
1 scooz (totally forgot)
1 ewit (don't leave home w/o her)
1 k finks (for life gain early/resilient outside of swords)
1 tusk
1 prime time (9)

3 lotv
2 jtms
1 garruk rel (6)

2 gsz
2 g probe
2 ponder (consistency but not the always needed t1)
4 therapy
4 brainstorm
3 decay
4 deed (this deck wants all the deeds)
1 pulse (22)

(37)

4 Verd
4 Delta
2 bayou
2 sea
1 trop
3 forest
2 swamp
2 island
1 P tower
1 V. Stronghold
1 CTP (23)

Mock SB: (blindly constructed)
4 fow
3 seize
3 surgical
3 negate
2 needle

[TTX]

Hey Ricardio and Ralf, nice evolution. I suggest
-2 Ponder
-1 Kitchen Finks
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Consecrated Sphinx
+1 Courser of Kruphix
+3 Sensei's Divining Top

Courser is much better than Finks when your not playing Birthing Pod. I'm not sure what to take out, but I really think Meren is worth playing, even with your V Stronghold.


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[Ricardio]

Hey Ricardio and Ralf, nice evolution. I suggest
-2 Ponder
-1 Kitchen Finks
-2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Consecrated Sphinx
+1 Courser of Kruphix
+3 Sensei's Divining Top

Courser is much better than Finks when your not playing Birthing Pod. I'm not sure what to take out, but I really think Meren is worth playing, even with your V Stronghold.


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2 6 cmc is a lot. I am a courser h8r. SDT might be better than ponder but not g probe in conjunction with therapy.

[Tao]

Creatures in general: Running such a small amount of creatures means that whenever you play a creature you have to know that it will most likely get killed (unless you play against decks that dont care about creatures). Your opponent will have stockpiled a lot of removal when you play your first "real" creature.
So your creatures need to be very hard to remove (Sigarda,Thrun) or have great EtB triggers (Witness, Prime Titan, Tusk) because you run so few. So cards like Glissa, Courser and Finks just don't cut it. Sphinx can be good but if you play Sphinx against a deck with StoP you will most likely lose that game.
I also don't like Ooze for that reason, but he has such high and unique utility that I think it is ok to maindeck him.

- without GSZ things like Ob Nixilis and Karn are good choices.
- with GSZ I like the 2x GSZ, 1x Titan, 2x Witness, 1x Thragtusk, 2x Tar Pit, Two Towers setup. I also think Thrun is good in this type of deck.

Garruk Relentless: also "too small" for BUG in my opinion

Force of Will: I agree with Ralf, FoW can’t be maindecked. But it is a valid sidebard card. I do like his choice of Negate but I think 4 is too much.

Ponder/Probe/Brainstorm: I like the 2/2/4 split.

Jace TMS: I like 3 Jaces. He is ultra important. Having 3 means that you can just play the first one without worrying too much that he dies, because you have good odds of finding a second one.

[sdematt]

For once, I agree with Tao.

[Ricardio]

Ok, I will make the changes. thanks for all the feedback!