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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

  1. #41
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    It has: thanks ^_^

    I should say that I'm hesitant on cutting DRS, if only because otherwise I have no way to grind out games against a hellbent ensnaring bridge or multiple Maze of Iths. In fact, it's actually came into play at a SCG Open round 1 vs. Mono-B Pox. Could probably go down to 2 though, especially since I'll be putting in a Sylvan Safekeeper to protect them and others.

    Concerning Rhino: to be honest, I'm considering Obstinate Baloth instead of either. It's the same CMC as Rhino, nets yourself 1 life more than Rhino yet 1 life less than Swag (to use Arianrhod's earlier notes on Scuttling Doom Engine v Kokusho, if Rhino dealt damage instead of siphoning life, I'd be more inclined to use it), and it acts as insurance against Lililiana's +1 and other non-specific discard spells (which our cards are only better if we get to use them). Though, I have to say the 4/5 body with Trample looks sweet.

    I like Knight, but I have reservations about adding it with DRS and Sylvan Safekeeper.

    I considered adding Teeg main, but from I've seen, it's been more of a detriment in the fair matchups than a boon in the combo/Miracles matchup. Then again, I was pairing him up with triple Thalia, Guardian of Thraben MD, so I suppose that would explain it :P.

    Linvala ... I'm not gonna lie, I honestly confused her with Selvala from Conspiracy. That Angel is really damn good, especially against Death and Taxes.
    Well, actually, with your list I can't see how you could not grind out a Pox deck. You have more tools to destroy an ensnaring bridge than Pox has copies of it.

    Knight is not pursuing the same role as in JUNK mid range. Beating to death an opponent with a 10/10 knight will happen but I'd rather see it as a boost to get your mangara/karakas lock faster. Not to mention the special hate against S&S & Réa. It could also help fetching the two towers...

    Don't overreact to Liliana because you lost some games against heavy discard decks. Hymn+ Liliana will always give some random wins as double waste opening hands also would (And it is played because you will eventually get free wins) . Baloth is a good card nevertheless. Feel free to test and pick up the one who suits you more. I'd rather outpower Liliana's decks or stall until Sigarda lands and closes the deal.

    About the Teeg/Linvala etc..thing I thought you were trying to build a hatebear/control abzan Fit list.
    Teeg is pretty useless in fair MU but my statement is the following:

    "You will likely lose less 1st game against fair decks because of Teeg than you will win against combo.deck thanks to him. The issue you'll encounter G2 & G3 is that white hatebears are quite expected by combo decks (massacre, dread of night, pyroclasm, abrupt decay, toxic deluge etc...)"

    Game 1 =

    ANT -> Landing Teeg is GG. Standard list has no out preboard. Teeg is threat n°1 / Ooze close 2nd.
    TES -> Teeg is usually too slow against TES and they will likely go for the ETW route but who knows if they are on the ADN plan they have to BW -> bounce Teeg.
    S&T -> You have 4 cards (2 karakas/1 Primetime +1 Knight potentially) against Show if you add Teeg you shut down Sneak -> GG ?
    Dredge -> Teeg will shut down Dread Return shenanigans leaving Dredge with the beatdown route. Ooze is threat n°1/ Teeg n°2.
    Elves -> Teeg will only delay the slaughter but you might draw a deed before you got hardcasted Oofed...

    From my perspective, Abzan Fit list are bound to lose a few % against fair decks for more % against combo pre-side just because you will mess with their sideboarding strategy.
    When they will bring removal and sweepers to deal with your hatebears, you will bring even more hatebears & pinpoint discards to break them harder.

    Please take my words with a grain of salt.
    I feel like European players are likely playing more unfair/control deck than American do. It is always meta dependant.

  2. #42

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    I have to disagree regarding your assesment of Teeg vs Show and Tell, the still can show into sneak attack, so no GG.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post

    Well, actually, with your list I can't see how you could not grind out a Pox deck. You have more tools to destroy an ensnaring bridge than Pox has copies of it.

    Knight is not pursuing the same role as in JUNK mid range. Beating to death an opponent with a 10/10 knight will happen but I'd rather see it as a boost to get your mangara/karakas lock faster. Not to mention the special hate against S&S & Réa. It could also help fetching the two towers...

    Don't overreact to Liliana because you lost some games against heavy discard decks. Hymn+ Liliana will always give some random wins as double waste opening hands also would (And it is played because you will eventually get free wins) . Baloth is a good card nevertheless. Feel free to test and pick up the one who suits you more. I'd rather outpower Liliana's decks or stall until Sigarda lands and closes the deal.

    About the Teeg/Linvala etc..thing I thought you were trying to build a hatebear/control abzan Fit list.
    Teeg is pretty useless in fair MU but my statement is the following:

    "You will likely lose less 1st game against fair decks because of Teeg than you will win against combo.deck thanks to him. The issue you'll encounter G2 & G3 is that white hatebears are quite expected by combo decks (massacre, dread of night, pyroclasm, abrupt decay, toxic deluge etc...)"

    Game 1 =

    ANT -> Landing Teeg is GG. Standard list has no out preboard. Teeg is threat n°1 / Ooze close 2nd.
    TES -> Teeg is usually too slow against TES and they will likely go for the ETW route but who knows if they are on the ADN plan they have to BW -> bounce Teeg.
    S&T -> You have 4 cards (2 karakas/1 Primetime +1 Knight potentially) against Show if you add Teeg you shut down Sneak -> GG ?
    Dredge -> Teeg will shut down Dread Return shenanigans leaving Dredge with the beatdown route. Ooze is threat n°1/ Teeg n°2.
    Elves -> Teeg will only delay the slaughter but you might draw a deed before you got hardcasted Oofed...

    From my perspective, Abzan Fit list are bound to lose a few % against fair decks for more % against combo pre-side just because you will mess with their sideboarding strategy.
    When they will bring removal and sweepers to deal with your hatebears, you will bring even more hatebears & pinpoint discards to break them harder.

    Please take my words with a grain of salt.
    I feel like European players are likely playing more unfair/control deck than American do. It is always meta dependant.
    No problem Ralf: tbh I could use all the help I can get. My record with my previous lists are abyssmal.

    Specifically, I was referring to Maze of Ith. Otherwise, their removal plus that means I cant win.

    And definity hear ya on the hatebear plan: I just having reservations about using Teeg with GSZs. I have a feeling that there is a Fauna Shaman build that could work, but not sold on the use of it over GSZ.

  4. #44
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp2293 View Post
    I have to disagree regarding your assesment of Teeg vs Show and Tell, the still can show into sneak attack, so no GG.
    Yes, you are definitely right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post

    Yes, you are definitely right.
    In regards to this in particular, does Thalia work with Teeg? If so, both against Sneak and Show would kill them.

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    My record with my previous lists are abyssmal.
    .
    I got that !
    Mangara lock is, imho, clunky in Nic Fit but you might have broken into a maverish new horizon kind of thing...

    If you like playing Abzan color, I would recommend:
    - Qweerios's latest Abzan list packing Pod + SFM (old thread)
    - Kevin's brew

    Don't dish your ideas just after a couple of testing games .

  7. #47
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    In regards to this in particular, does Thalia work with Teeg? If so, both against Sneak and Show would kill them.
    No.
    So even with Talia+Teeg on board, one can cast a S&T.

  8. #48

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    I currently run a Junk Wish Fit build based on what Jbone2016 posted a few months ago (although most of my experience is with Punishing Fit). I'm still a total amateur with the deck but have been very satisfied with how it performs:

    Lands
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Windswept Heath
    2 Marsh Flats
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    Creatures
    3 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Eternal Witness
    (1 Siege Rhino)
    1 Sigarda
    1 Grave Titan
    Spells
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Sensei's divining top
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Living Wish
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    (1 Vindicate)
    1 Toxic Deluge
    3 Pernicious deed
    1 Batterskull
    Sideboard
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Karakas
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Veteran Explorer
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Sigarda
    1 Eternal witness
    (1 Melira)

    The maindeck parentheses are for things that have been Liliana of the Veil most recently...but I can see Arianrhod's point that, even though I love Lili, she doesn't have a place in every nic fit build, and I'm wondering if this is one of them. Infect has been a thorn in my side so I am thinking about MDing a vindicate for inkmoth, and sideboarding a Melira, but realize this may be too reactive. Overall, my SB is more focused on giving the deck consistency than packing silver bullets (except the canonist and bojuka bog), and I have been pretty happy with this: the karakas (to protect teeg or sigarda), the tower, and the explorer in the board have all been MVPs for me. Sigarda is also a flex spot in the board, but I've come to realize I just want her every single game: she's awesome against everything that isn't combo, especially our omnipresent enemy Miracles. As a final note, I know lots of people hate Grave Titan, but I love that guy. Besides the fact that I just love windmill slamming that guy on the board enough to play him even if he sucks, I've never been unhappy to draw him or have him in a starting hand, he's a huge beating for many decks. Anyways, happy to hear thoughts on the build: my experience is that it is, like all Nic Fit, awesome against fair decks and weak to combo, but it's had surprising game against miracles. Still testing it beyond those awfully broad generalities.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Thanks for the great primer Arianrhod, well written and a nice summary of all the Nic Fit variants out there. You do say though to name lightning bolt against burn when actually Sulfuric vortex is the biggest threat in my opinion because it stops life gain like Thragtusk, Huntmaster, etc. and that's the main route for victory in the match-up. I'm also curious about Stormbreath Dragon. What made you go with him in your Scapeshift lists? I see the fact that it dodges Swords to Plowshares but otherwise I'm not completely sold. I think I'd rather just have two abrupt decays main instead to hedge against a variety of decks.

    For my local weekly event, I tried to port Melira pod over to legacy, with a few key additions. Veteran Explorer, Deathrite Shaman, and Green Sun's Zenith are not legal in modern but I took advantage of them here. I guess you could argue that this list isn't quite Nic Fit since it doesn't run pernicious deed, but it has the other key components of Veteran Explorer + Cabal Therapy. I went 3-1 yesterday in my weekly with the following list, beating high tide (4 candles!), pox, burn, and losing to miracles.

    Lands:
    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Karakas
    3 Windswept Heath
    1 Gavony Township
    1 Dryad Arbor

    Creatures (By CMC):
    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Viscera Seer
    2 Voice of Resurgence
    1 Wall of Blossoms
    2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Eternal Witness
    2 Kitchen Finks
    1 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
    1 Restoration Angel
    1 Ranger of Eos
    1 Murderous Redcap
    1 Reveillark
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Sun Titan

    Spells:
    4 Birthing Pod
    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Abrupt Decay
    4 Cabal Therapy

    SB: 1 Bone Shredder
    SB: 1 Sin Collector
    SB: 1 Hornet Queen
    SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
    SB: 4 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 2 Council's Judgment

    This is actually 62 cards and I can't remember what I cut, but probably the second melira could go away. Admittedly, I went for a few fun-of's in Hornet Queen and Yisan. However, I green sun zenithed for Hornet Queen against Pox after boarding it in and his Tombstalker/Liliana of the veil started to look mighty pathetic. While playing against my miracles opponent he swords to plowshared my Yisan immediately before I could untap with it and he called it "scary." It's basically in there to be Pod number 5 and to generate board presence and card advantage versus fair decks. I'm not sure if Yisan is terribly competitive, but it's a fun magic card and I'd encourage pod users to try him out. Valroz is a GSZable sacrifice outlet for the melira combo and I was not unhappy to just draw it naturally. It works well with Thrun in post board games to make a giant monster.

    There's a lot of talk of Junk Nic Fit decks in the new thread and I'd be interested to see some other Junk Pod lists. I know there are some in the old thread, and I tried searching by name people I know play the archetype but I couldn't find a recent list.

  10. #50
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch View Post
    There's a lot of talk of Junk Nic Fit decks in the new thread and I'd be interested to see some other Junk Pod lists. I know there are some in the old thread, and I tried searching by name people I know play the archetype but I couldn't find a recent list.
    Here you go: click me

  11. #51
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    @Conch:

    Keep in mind that the Therapy names are the initial cast of Therapy -- it's assumed that readers can make the correct call on flashback because they'll have the information (barring Brainstorm). Vortex costs 3 and is not an instant, so it's safe to hold off on it until the flashback. I do agree that it is far and away burn's most threatening card in the matchup, though -- probably Fireblast is the only other thing close. Although, Eidolon can randomly be obnoxious.

    I think that you might have better luck porting "angel pod," since the Thune package is already established. Melira seems really clunky for legacy -- hell, I've often found it to be too clunky for modern, even.

    Why are you not running Stoneforge? That's another insane Pod card that isn't legal in modern that you can run here. It's much, much better than Voice of Resurgence, I'd say.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Here's my current Junk Pod list as there seems to be renewed interest in the archetype:

    2 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor
    3 Forest
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Plains
    2 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    2 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath

    1 Archangel of Thune
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Kitchen Finks
    1 Murderous Redcap
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Restoration Angel
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Spike Feeder
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Thragtusk
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Wall of Blossoms

    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Batterskull
    3 Birthing Pod
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    SB
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Choke
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    4 Thoughtseize

    Been testing it for a few months now and it's actually very good. The addition of Siege Rhino is bonkers. Have fun.

  13. #53

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Hi Folks, after avoiding this for the last few months, I'm testing the BUG Pod list that has become somewhat popular outside of the US. Here is the list I'm currently trying:

    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Glen Elendra Archmage
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Murderous Redcap
    1 Phantasmal Image
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Shriekmaw
    1 Sower of Temptation
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Trinket Mage
    1 Vendilion Clique
    3 Baleful Strix
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Veteran Explorer

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Recurring Nightmare
    2 Pernicious Deed

    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Birthing Pod

    1 Polluted Delta
    2 Bayou
    2 Forest
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Verdant Catacombs

    I played a few games yesterday and I found Sower of Temptation and Trinket Mage very subpar. Even if I had Explosives (which I then have to cut a card), I wasn't super happy with it in general. I also found myself heavily leaning on Deed in a lot of situations. I am thinking swapping Sower for Venser (and moving her the board) but I am not sure what to replace the Trinket Mage and Top with. I like the toolbox options but I think it's too slow. It does lean itself to options with Birthing Pod and the ability to go grab a 0 or 1 drop to Pod with, but that seems too cute. Last, is Grave Titan really the best option at 6 for us? I was thinking if there is an "I win" combo in these colors and it doesn't seem like there is an easy one (excluding Melira, which is too slow I think).

    My therapies were relatively okay and I think that was a big part of my games.

    Does anyone have any notes they have about the deck they can share? I was pretty happy with it in general but I need to tune the specific cards a little more.
    As far as Trinket Mage, have you tried it with Pithing Needle as well? I've found the maindeck needle to be very good in a variety of matchups. The one awkward thing about the Trinket toolbox has been the non-combo with Pernicious deed, although you can play around your cards for the most part. If you want to swap out the Trinket mage, you could look to something like True-Name Nemesis. Sometimes this deck does have trouble applying pressure, especially in the face of Jace, so it could be worth testing. I have also made the Sower/Venser swap. Venser is OK, certainly better than Sower, but not spectacular.

  14. #54

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Schulzchop View Post
    As far as Trinket Mage, have you tried it with Pithing Needle as well? I've found the maindeck needle to be very good in a variety of matchups. The one awkward thing about the Trinket toolbox has been the non-combo with Pernicious deed, although you can play around your cards for the most part. If you want to swap out the Trinket mage, you could look to something like True-Name Nemesis. Sometimes this deck does have trouble applying pressure, especially in the face of Jace, so it could be worth testing. I have also made the Sower/Venser swap. Venser is OK, certainly better than Sower, but not spectacular.
    The problem with more targets is that I have to cut more cards. The best I feel I can cut is a Pod. I don't think going below 4 on the others is right and I don't want to cut a creature for an artifact. The Trinket Mage plan might be stronger in the sideboard where I can board in the Mage along with Explosives, Relic, Needle and maybe the Top if it's gonna go to a grind.

    Interesting thought. My problem with True-Name is that he kinda doesn't fit the rest of our plan. I will definitely try him and see what I think.

    There isn't a better card at 4 and Venser does what is needed. He also deals with anything, which is something I really like.

  15. #55

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    This is all in relation to the BUG pod lists:

    I've been running a true name nemesis and would highly recommend it. Its main job is killing planeswalkers (aka jace), but it also closes out games nicely and provides a (mostly) unanswerable threat, which is something this deck is somewhat missing. Also face tanking nearly anything is always nice. It is probably the best 3cc creature in the format, so why not run it.

    Random thought, but has anyone tried llawan, cephalid empress in the sideboard? I suspect it is a little too cute/situational but havent actually tried it out myself.

    Similiarly, teferi, mage of zhalfir seems really good against miracles. Aside from turning off miracle, it shuts down counters. The casting cost is rather high, to be fair, but it might be worth a try.

    I am also curious as to why more people are not running jace. If ever there was a deck to run planeswalkers in, this would be it. It ramps quickly, controls the board, and runs a ton of creatures (aka blockers for jace). I really wanted to run a different planeswalker than jace (I really wanted kiora, the crashing wave to work, or the garruks), but jace is just jace. Brainstorming every turn in a deck running this many shuffle effects is insanely strong. I have been running 2x jace over sensei's top + trinket mage

  16. #56
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by honz View Post
    This is all in relation to the BUG pod lists:

    I've been running a true name nemesis and would highly recommend it. Its main job is killing planeswalkers (aka jace), but it also closes out games nicely and provides a (mostly) unanswerable threat, which is something this deck is somewhat missing. Also face tanking nearly anything is always nice. It is probably the best 3cc creature in the format, so why not run it.
    I second this. Been saying it for quite a while but not many people seem to like the idea. I've loved it ever since it was printed though. Always good to get with pod, both offensive and defensive. A marginal benefit of the card is also that nobody really expects it and I've often heard a "Oh... you run that as well? *sigh*". My decklist can be found here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ht=#post828886.

    Regarding 6 drops in BUG: [CARD]Consecrated Sphinx[/CARDS]. Usually I win the game if I can draw at least 2 cards from it. Also hilarious to put into play upon a SnT from your opponent that puts Griselbrand into play ^^.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    I think Pod variants of Nic Fit are a whole different animal. For starters, Pod decks are aggro decks with disruptive elements at the core while traditional Nic Fit is a dedicated control deck in all of its iterations. You can see this difference when you observe the amount creatures with lower mana costs vs. the amount of non-creature spells present in each respective deck.

    Secondly, they don't use Deed quite as effectively and some versions are even better without. Pod has no incentive to blow a Deed on their own Arbor, DRS, Strix, SFM/Jitte, or reset their Pod Chain in order to deal with a single Nemesis. The main strength of Deed in today's legacy is its versatility and its main piece of synergy with Nic Fit resides in its ability to generate lots of mana quickly in order to be able to abuse an instant speed board wipe into a devastating Planeswalker (Lily, Jace, Garruk, etc.) or board breaking creature.
    I guess this depends on the Pod version you're playing. My BUG list is extremely slow and is a pure control list. Deed for <4 is still very very good against pretty much every legacy deck and while it might hurt the small guys a bit, I don't mind sacrificing some (of which the EtB/LtB triggers were already beneficial) to whipe the board of my opponent clean. I do see your arguments for Junk pod though. As Kevin wrote in the primer, GSZ is just not very good in the BUG colors. Therefore, I've opted for a Pod package of creatures, while not really trying to change the way the deck plays. So far I'm very happy with my list and if I'd make a little less mistakes I'm sure that I'll start putting up better results more consistently. The 12th of October I will play my deck at the Danish Legacy Masters. It will be interesting to see how the deck fares in a larger tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    Lastly and most importantly, Explorer does not represent the same thing for each deck. In a traditional Nic Fit list, an Explorer trigger is an essential component of the deck's success. This is why the better lists play 4 Explorer and 4 GSZ to maximize the chances of this crucial trigger even though the 2nd Explorer trigger has diminishing returns and the 3rd and 4th are mostly cluster and dead weight. In a Pod deck however, Explorers are treated as added value and are not as crucial of a component to the deck's success. Pod decks have more ramp tools, a lower curve, and is overall more proactive as it doesn't need to wait for an Explorer to be available in order to use a Therapy effectively. My most recent and successful Pod lists have dropped down to 2 Explorers because the trigger is only desired when a Therapy or a Pod activation is available in the early game.

    Aside from that, great work on the primer Kevin. You were always the most dedicated to this deck and I am glad to see you reiterate its history for the future Nic Fitters. I may not share your optimism on the deck's future success but I do share your enthusiasm about the spicy brews to come.
    I agree with both these parts. I only play 3 explorers and an additional 3 DRS who do a great job at ramping (E.g. enabling a T2 Birthing Pod), gaining life from all the pod activations or posing a threat. This configuration worked great for me and I certainly don't want a 4th explorer.

    Nice job on the primer, looks like a very complete list of all the nic fit varieties!

    Has anyone tested Treasure Cruise in BUG lists? I'm currently running 4x Brainstorm and 2x Ponder and I think of going -2 Ponder, +2 Treasure Cruise. My graveyard is easily filled and while I run a witness there is plenty of crap to delve away. My main concern is that this choice will hurt the consistency of my deck in the early turns, but the plan of ponder was mostly to use it for card quality in the mid/late game anyway. Will be tested for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Non games are not only a common sight in Legacy, they are every decks plan. [...] Playing a deck like DnT and then complaining about "Non games" is hypocritical, because non games are your plan, you just disapprove of the way someone else is trying to achieve that same goal.

  17. #57
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    I'm not exactly sold on Rhino, but that's mostly because I feel Swagtusk is still one of the best anti-control cards available to use while still being usable in the tempo matchup (combo, as always, is a nightmare).

    Also, I've been testing the following list on cockatrice. So far I've played against Rock with Hymns and a hybrid of MUD and UR Painter (by that I mean it had a stompy manabase, ran Chalices, EE, Blood Moon, Force of Will, and Wurmcoil Engine) that for some reason had Tinker main deck. The former I lost pretty badly too after being hellbent from Liliana and Hymns, but the second one I lost one game, won the next thanks to Mangara lock and proper sequencing.

    61 Main
    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Eternal Witness
    3 Mangara of Corondor
    2 Thragtusk
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Primeval Titan
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Diabolic Intent
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Pernicious Deed
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Verdant Catacomb
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Karakas

    10 Side
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Karakas
    Current Changes (Main)
    -1 Deathrite Shaman
    -1 Qasali Pridemage
    +1 Sylvan Safekeeper
    +1 Gaddock Teeg

    Potential Changes (Side)
    -1 Karakas
    +1 Thespian's Stage
    +1 Dark Depths

    Notes
    -Sylvan Safekeeper is an absolute boss when we have to play the beatdown in the matchup. Even though I lost both games where it actually had an impact, I attribute that to misplays on my behalf and an inability to close the game out quickly [*successfully used against G2 Miracles and G1 Jund]
    -Gaddock Teeg wrecks Miracles, especially when backed up by Safekeeper, which mean their only answers are Council's Judgment or combat. [*successfully used against G2 Miracles]
    -Qasali Pridemage, on the other hand, did nothing that I had expected it to do. In fact, the only matchup I'd be concerned about having it would the OmniTell matchup and possibly against Batterskull, though I suspect the latter would be about the same as using it on Top
    -While Mango Crackers has helped save my butt a few times, I don't think it's worth it to add an extra Karakas in the sideboard. After all, the biggest weakness this list has from testing is an inability to close out the game quickly.
    -Conversely, Stage Depths seems like a fine switch in against fair decks, especially when backed up by Sylvan Safekeeper.

  18. #58

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely try True-Name Nemesis. I have one more slot. Any recommendations? I have a personal preference to some kinda silly cards, like Meloku and Tradewind Rider.

  19. #59
    Site Contributor
    Whitefaces's Avatar
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    What is peoples thoughts on Clever Impersonator? I can see him fitting into BUG pod lists pretty nicely.

  20. #60
    Storm Trooper
    JanoschEausH's Avatar
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dissection View Post
    What is peoples thoughts on Clever Impersonator? I can see him fitting into BUG pod lists pretty nicely.
    Yeah, I also thought about that. Could clone a Jace. On the other hand, he competes with Sower slotwise, and Sower is just better against the decks, where we really need such an effect (SnT, Reanimator). Sower dies to removal more likeley, though. I guess that has to be tested.

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