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Thread: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

  1. #6541

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Navsi View Post
    Stunning Growth - this looks pretty good.

    Would it be faster to mill a lethal Valakut than to just get to 7 lands? Might be doable. Need good self-mill options though. Is there much Jund has, short of just running the ton of Grisly Salvage variants they've printed now?

    Edit: Squandered Resources is pretty good with this card.
    Gitrog is magic.
    And with Dakmor Salvage + some zentithable way to discard like wild mongrel (have you seen the new one?) it's a one time dredge for all the deck.

    Otherwise, have you seen the new enchantement Sigarda's blessing? Seems great in a SFM list.

  2. #6542

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Gitrog is great.

    However, Dakmor Salvage combo is IMO not worth it. I've tried it multiple times now, but it has several major issues.

    - Dakmor Salvage does nothing without Gitrog.
    - Vulnerable to yard hate and creature removal, including Deathrite Shaman.
    - 3 card combos are sloooooow. 2 card combos like Archangel + Spike Feeder are already clunky.

    Sigarda's Blessing is okay (as in, does cool stuff) but I don't think its effect is worth a card. Flashing in a SoFaF in response to an Abrupt Decay is hilarious, but even there we still only got a 1-for-1 because we spent a whole card on Sigarda's Bless.

  3. #6543
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Thank you to everyone whom made suggestions and gave comments. Today I took the time to do a bit of researching and weighing considerations that were given here and did make some changes to the list. I feel they overall strengthen/solidify certain MU for me while freeing up clutter to add attention items to help against MU's where I may not have necessarily the best chance of winning.

    the changes I made:

    MB-

    -1 Siege Rhino
    -1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    -1 Painful Truths
    -1 Phyrexian Tower

    +1 Tireless Tracker
    +1 Gaddock Teeg (From SB to MB)
    +1 Garruk Relentless (From SB to MB)
    +1 Savannah

    SB-

    -1 Rest in Peace
    -1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    +1 Ethersworn Canonist
    +1 Surgical Extraction
    +1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

    ___________

    With what I took from the MB, I felt I could safely cut down to 3 Siege Rhino's to make room for a 2nd Tireless Tracker. Tracker has always been a great play, when I could see it as a singleton in the deck. The idea of having it moved up to 2, as the attrition value and potential threat range of the card is marvelous. Because I was putting in a 2nd Tracker, I felt i was save taking Painful Truth's down to 1. I also removed the Meren because I felt that I wanted to have Gaddock Teeg in the main deck. There are some matches that he either shuts down quite a few plays fairly well or does buy me the time I need to get things rolling. With Meren gone, I traded out the 2nd Phyrexian Tower for a 2nd Savannah as I had 2 Towers sort of as a combo with her as a means to quickly build up XP Counters and abuse the hell out of Siege Rhino's. Also a 2nd Savannah means another fetch target, which adds a tiny bit more consistency to Tireless Tracker. Garruk Relentless has been also moved to the main because of the pressure he allows me to put on some decks, in particular Miracles.

    The side board I decided to take the Rest in Peace out and move a 2nd Surgical Extraction in. Rest in Peace does nearly eliminate threats from a lot of sources. 2 Surgical Extraction at least gives me the option of what to remove from threats that my opponent has and could potentially cripple their deck design if done correctly. And it's still graveyard hate. Ethersworn Canonist to help against the Storm MU and a few others with Spirit of the Labyrinth really there for those decks that like to draw a lot of cards (I love making their brainstorm's bad).

    I also evolved Elspeth to her larger form because having the ability to go toe to toe with Eldrazi by destroying all their creatures seems extremely healthful. Furthermore she is also anther strong threat to bring in against the Miracles match, a few other decks too.

    Overall I like these changes. I feel they help bring a bit more consistency to the deck by keeping strong what i am good at and making areas I am bad at less bad and hopefully increase my ability to survive through them terrible MU's.

    Here's the new 75:

    - - - - - -

    Creatures (15):

    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Siege Rhino
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Thragtusk

    Sorcery (10):

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Painful Truth's
    1 Maelstrom Pulse

    Instants (5):

    3 Path to Exile
    2 Abrupt Decay

    Enchantments (3):

    3 Pernicious Deed

    Artifacts (3):

    3 Sensei's Divining Top

    Planeswalkers (2):

    Sorin, Grim Nemesis
    Garruk Relentless

    Lands (22):

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Karakas
    1 Scrubland
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains

    - - - - -

    Sideboard (15):

    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Choke
    1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

  4. #6544
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by JemberaMakoa View Post
    With Meren gone, I traded out the 2nd Phyrexian Tower for a 2nd Savannah as I had 2 Towers sort of as a combo with her as a means to quickly build up XP Counters and abuse the hell out of Siege Rhino's.
    That isn't what you use the second Tower for... You have it to increase the number of T1 Forest -> Veteran Explorer, T2 Phyrexian Tower -> go nuts draws you have. Building up XP counters with Meren happens accidentally at best, you don't plan for it to happen. There's just too much that can go wrong for that to work (and takes far too long to set up). You pretty much just play Meren for the CA she provides, all else is just icing on the cake.

    The rest of your changes are fine, they do help you with your Miracles MU. Just be careful of Gaddock Teeg though, he has a habit of messing with your own plans as soon as he hits the field.

  5. #6545
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    That isn't what you use the second Tower for... You have it to increase the number of T1 Forest -> Veteran Explorer, T2 Phyrexian Tower -> go nuts draws you have. Building up XP counters with Meren happens accidentally at best, you don't plan for it to happen. There's just too much that can go wrong for that to work (and takes far too long to set up). You pretty much just play Meren for the CA she provides, all else is just icing on the cake.

    The rest of your changes are fine, they do help you with your Miracles MU. Just be careful of Gaddock Teeg though, he has a habit of messing with your own plans as soon as he hits the field.
    Teeg does, especially with GSZ. That's an issue I ran across, from time to time, with him when playing Maverick.

    I may, after this weekend, end up switching Meren and the 2nd Tower back into the deck. I know neither are really there for each other, but Tower and Veteran Explorer with a Meren on the field leads to some really stupid things happening extremely quick.

  6. #6546
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    This just popped in my head - another huge value creature for Eldritch Evolution - Woodland Bellower. Turn a random 4-drop into Bellower + Eternal Witness or Bellower + Fierce Empath, fetch Tasigur/Gurmag Angler/Karador.

    Turns Eldritch Evolution from a 1-for-2 to a 2-for-2 or 3-for-2. Might be some more Danger Of Cool Stuff though, since other 6-drops either walk away with the game (Grave Titan, Dromoka) or place your opponent in a vicegrip (Sun Titan) with a lot less setup.

    Just wanted to put it out there.

    It sucks Evolution that exiles itself.

  7. #6547

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    If Evolution didn't exile itself it would be absurdly good. Goblin Dark Dwellers in particular would do stupid things. You could go from a 3-drop and 3 mana to a lethal combo directly.

    Personally I'm looking at a slightly lower to the ground build, with EE as a tutor for a few silver bullets. In particular, turning Veteran Explorer or DRS into Magus of the Moon seems pretty good.

  8. #6548
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Navsi View Post
    or DRS
    OMG, finally someone that gets it! EE + Vet Ex should generally be too slow. EE + DRS equals T2. Well, maybe with Thalia 2.0?

    Is susceptible to Daze though...

  9. #6549

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    DRS > EE is mana neutral tempo negative card disadvantage that's open to blow outs. That is not where you went to be :/

    I like the Bellower idea though, or using it to make a Pod deck more consistent.
    Junk and Stoned Rhinos.

  10. #6550

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Using EE on a Vet is exactly what we want to be doing to propel us into the midgame from the early game. However, it's not going to happen on turn two.

    Using EE on a DRS is a way of playing more copies of miscellaneous 3-drops in the deck, at the expense of card disadvantage.

    They're two very different lines that happen to both be made available by the same card.

    I don't think Daze is much of a problem, the decks we want to wreck with Magus aren't the decks that play Daze.

  11. #6551
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Navsi View Post
    Using EE on a Vet is exactly what we want to be doing to propel us into the midgame from the early game. However, it's not going to happen on turn two.
    We'd want to, but we probably can't. We want to hit the mid/lategame as quickly as possible since that's where we shine most, hence we'll feed our Vet to Phyrexian Tower/Cabal Therapy the first chance we get. Only after that we go for the fancy stuff.

  12. #6552

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Sure we want to be feeding Vet to Tower or Therapy.

    We play 8 copies of Vet (Zeniths + Explorers).
    We play 5-6 sac outlets (4 Therapy + 1-2 Towers).

    Adding 2-3 additional ways of killing our Veteran for value is something to consider when we can reasonably expect to have a Veteran without a sacrifice outlet in a reasonable percentage of games.

    The nice thing about EE is that if we have already ditched a vet to get towards the midgame, it still works at upgrading our 2- and 3-drops like Witness, Strix, Stoneforge, Empath into serious threats.

  13. #6553
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    @Navsi: It seems we agree .

    The bit about missing sac outlets for your Veteran Explorer - it's one of the reason why I run 2 Diabolic Intent. That, and it's just a sick card.

  14. #6554

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    With regards to using EE to get 3-drops off of DRS, Magus of the Moon + Sulfur Elemental + Scab-Clan Berserker pretty much cover most of our non-blue matchups (ie where we're actually willing to cast EE like that). Might be worth looking into? I could see 2 Magus maindeck with the other two in the sideboard for DnT and Storm.

    Magus of the Moon seems like it might be a powerful choice in Jund just because it's great against two of the real bad matchups the R build have in Infect and Lands.

  15. #6555

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by JemberaMakoa View Post
    Thank you to everyone whom made suggestions and gave comments. Today I took the time to do a bit of researching and weighing considerations that were given here and did make some changes to the list. I feel they overall strengthen/solidify certain MU for me while freeing up clutter to add attention items to help against MU's where I may not have necessarily the best chance of winning.

    the changes I made:

    MB-

    -1 Siege Rhino
    -1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    -1 Painful Truths
    -1 Phyrexian Tower

    +1 Tireless Tracker
    +1 Gaddock Teeg (From SB to MB)
    +1 Garruk Relentless (From SB to MB)
    +1 Savannah

    SB-

    -1 Rest in Peace
    -1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    +1 Ethersworn Canonist
    +1 Surgical Extraction
    +1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
    Those are all changes I've thought about doing to my list for similar reasons. Tireless Tracker is the nuts in this deck. There's almost nothing more satisfying then saccing Explorer to Tower, then getting two basics and clues, then using that mana to crack them. SO. MUCH. VALUE!!!! There is also something to be said about having four Rhinos, which allows consistent threat redundancy, but I feel you can go down on a Rhino for Tireless Tracker himself.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  16. #6556
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    I feel you can go down on a Rhino for Tireless Tracker himself.
    Yes, show Tireless Tracker you care, go on.

    I don't think you ment to say that...

  17. #6557

    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Yes, show Tireless Tracker you care, go on.

    I don't think you ment to say that...
    DAMMIT ECHELON

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  18. #6558
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    You might just become my first signature!

    Edit: You know, I just realized Eldritch Evolution curves Fierce Empath beautifully into Summoner's Egg. I'm going to have such a fucking field day when this card is released! I have a beautiful list ready, but you guys'll have to wait for it. Gonna do some testing tomorrow.
    Last edited by Echelon; 07-08-2016 at 08:17 AM.

  19. #6559
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by JemberaMakoa View Post
    Creatures (15):

    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Siege Rhino
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Thragtusk

    Sorcery (10):

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Painful Truth's
    1 Maelstrom Pulse

    Instants (5):

    3 Path to Exile
    2 Abrupt Decay

    Enchantments (3):

    3 Pernicious Deed

    Artifacts (3):

    3 Sensei's Divining Top

    Planeswalkers (2):

    Sorin, Grim Nemesis
    Garruk Relentless

    Lands (22):

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Karakas
    1 Scrubland
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains

    - - - - -

    Sideboard (15):

    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Choke
    1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
    Oh, I really like the bas of this one.

    I want to try out a similar build but -1 Vetrean Ex -1 ThargTsk for +1 Sylvian Safekeeper, Titania, protector of argoth

    I have only play both of them in the Jund version a few games but it felt nice. I want to try it out on the Junk Version as well.

  20. #6560
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganfar View Post
    Oh, I really like the bas of this one.

    I want to try out a similar build but -1 Vetrean Ex -1 ThargTsk for +1 Sylvian Safekeeper, Titania, protector of argoth

    I have only play both of them in the Jund version a few games but it felt nice. I want to try it out on the Junk Version as well.
    Titania = Danger Of Cool Things. But feel free to find that out for yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

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