Sorry, I was unclear on the titania explanation. Yes, he show and tells and lands emrakul while I get titania. He passes turn, I don't do much in mine. In his he swings and I sacrifice lands for titania tokens.
Again, if no one cares about event reports, just say so, I enjoy reading other peoples so assume others do too.
For storm I usually go
-1 titan
-1 thragtusk
-1 meren
-2 tracker
-1 garruk
-1 abrupt
-1 recurring nightmare
+2 Duress (would like a TS in board too here)
+3 surgical
+2 slaughter games
+1 ruric
Trying to therapy/extract their infernal tutor usually. Strip hand best I can, then race for ruric.
What do you guys go for as priority therapy/slaughter games targets?
I actually like a couple Tidehollow Scullers. Against the decks we usually want to disrupt we need a combination of disruption and a clock. Sculler provides both and the decks we're bringing it in against rarely have the removal to kill it. Downside is you can't TS/Duress+Extraction.Originally Posted by 4554551//
Some do run abrupt.
Also nice to witness the duress/Ts and go again
Though not only does sculler provide a clock, it goes against chalice.. Interesting
I'm heavily biased towards just hitting my opponent in the face with this deck since we have the mana to pay for spells with bodies attached. Moderate disruption, moderate clock/board presence, high CA is the formula I use.
If they Decay the Tidehollow it just turns on Witness and sometimes Glissa to get it back.
I'll sacrifice pretty much anything to CT as long as it isn't a hatebear. It could be a DRS if I have a hatebear to replace it, it could be an Eternal Witness, it could be as simple as fetch for Dryad Arbor. Vs. ANT I tend to name Infernal Tutor on the first blind Therapy, vs. TES I tend to name Dark Ritual (since they run a lot more tutors).
I usually manage to stick a first couple of problem cards, but fail to close the game. I tend to whiff on gas vs. ANT/TES (even though I've still got the full set of Rhinos postboard).
Unless absolutely necessary I would caution against sacrificing either DRS or Arbor to an early CT. You won't beat Storm unless you curve out with some bodies+spells, and giving up your mana production really screws that up.
Here's my list I use online to some moderate success, I enjoy it but can always use tweaking.
lands: 22
4x windswept heaths
3x wooded foothills (should obv be verdants, but don't have. doesn't make TOO much of a dif 95% of the time.)
3x forest
2x swamp
2x plains
1x karakas
1x volrath's stronghold
1x phyrexian tower
1x dryad arbor
1x bayou
2x savannah
1x scrubland
creatures: 16
4x veteran explorer
1x death-rite shaman
1x scavenging ooze
1x eternal witness
1x tireless tracker
1x Nissa, vastwood seer
1x reclamation sage
1x meren
2x siege rhino
1x sigarda
1x thragtusk
1x armada wurm
non-creature spells: 22
4x cabal therapy
4x green sun's zenith
3x abrupt decay
2x swords to plowshares
1x maelstrom pulse (prob needs to be vindicate, but don't have.)
1x painful truths
enchantments:
2x pernicious deed
1x sylvan library
artifacts:
2x diving top
planeswalkers:
1x garruk, primal hunter
1x sorin, lord of innistrad
sideboard:
3x thoughtseize
2x surgical
1x gaddock teeg
1x thrun
1x reclamation sage
2x dryad militant
2x choke
1x StP
1x toxic deluge
1x golgari charm
The cards that aren't standard that I've really been enjoying -
1. Nissa
she's not great at attack or blocking, but she's really great at helping make sure you hit your land drops. I was a firm believer in 6 basics before, but with her in there you need that extra forest or you find yourself without anything to fetch far too often. late game she becomes "draw 2 cards a turn" with her + and her minus, while not ALWAYS relevant, sometimes a 4/4 is good enough to just get there.
Armada Wurm
he's my preferred 6 drop of choice. It may be unnecessary, but I just really enjoy having that one big thing on the top end to go and get to help lock down games. Yes Sigarda is still just better in a LOT of cases, but really 10 trample power for 6 mana is hard to argue against
Garruk, Primal Hunter
This one has given me slightly more mixed results? Sometimes you'll clear each other's board and jump plopping one down and pumping out 3/3s every turn just gets there. I think its awesome for that to be his plus, and in a pinch he's just 5 mana draw X. Sometimes he's worthless when you have nothing on your board to really stop a 3/2 delver from flying overhead at him. I enjoy him/more planeswalkers in general as I think they're our best advantage of playing a 'big mana' deck as they're usually a bit harder to remove.
My last league online I went 3-2 losing a couple close games to misplays (I don't consider myself super familiar with legacy tbh, only just started playing again after a two year break and am having to learn the ins and outs of playing against certain matchups)
The hardest decks to beat (for me at least) have so far been:
combo (Storm is slightly easier than sneak/show)
Mono Red
Eldrazi
I think combo is just always going to be a bad matchup no matter what for us, but the things ive considered to try and even it out a little bit are -
dryad arbor for the gy based ones. its a neat little creature that exiles instants/sorceries and is easily gsz on turn 2. Its not...amazing, but its something. its also OKAY against dredge because it'll get rid of their dread returns, and miracles because sometimes just creature density is better / makes it harder for them to snap stuff back.
Mono-red feels like it shouldn't be a hard matchup at all, but sometimes it is? I think its probably closer to 50:50 and I just haven't played it enough for the variance to even out. What I'm considering for this one as well as eldrazi is something similar - more rhinos. rhino seems like your best card against them by a lot, as it gets around eidolon / any burn they have and immediately gains you 3 life and blocks / trades for at least 2-for-1 usually if they want to get rid of it. 3-4 rhinos may be best. other considerations are either a small stoneforge package/just jitte because that card is also p. hard for them to beat
Eldrazi - I think getting a vindicate here will help, as well as - you guessed it - more rhinos. it blocks everything really well except the smashers, and even those if you double block they can only kill one thing because of the extra behind. They can just be super aggressive sometimes though and it can be hard to stabilize I feel. Toxic deluge - good or bad against them? I feel like losing 5 life or whatever to try and clear off their board doesn't feel worth it, but I could be wrong.
Just some random thoughts / ramblings to go with my decklist, what do you guys think? I'll try and keep a better record of how my games play out the next time I start up a league / next Wednesday.
If by mono red you mean burn, it's very poor game 1. If you can SB out your vets for other mana acceleration it gets a little better in games 2 and 3. They can go under you very effectively though and vets just enable them. The biggest constraint Burn has is in getting the mana soon enough to kill you and when you pop a Veteran Explorer you're giving them the means to deal 10 to you right then and there (2x bolt, 1x fireblast) befor your Therapy even resolves, it's very difficult to come back from but at the same time if you don't pop Vets they're going to go under you. This is why it's important to have DRS and Arbor/GSZ as alternative ramp sources.
Vets just become dead cards, even if you don't pop it and intend to use it as a blocker it effectively turns Searing Blaze into a 0 mana deal 3.
The best card you can have against them is Pridemage/Reclamation Sage. Pridemage comes down before Eidolon on the play and kills it without you taking damage, it also beats it in combat on attack. Sage is similar. You can also GSZ for them at X=3 to bump your GSZ up to 4 and dodge the Eidolon trigger. If they don't have an Eidolon they also deal with Sulfuric Vortex, or Ensnaring Bridge if the player misjudges their role. Eidolon is their best card against you, as it typically is against everyone.
Rhinos can help but they're slow, especially because you need to reduce your mana acceleration in the match. It's important to lower your curve significantly. With the loss of Vets you have to lean heavier on dual lands, but duals mean getting wrecked by Price of Progress. So what you're trying to do is operate off of basics in the 3 mana range. If you have Finks they're fantastic. Don't forget that DRS pulls double duty in the match, not just being a mana source but it also gives lifegain. Aggressively trade and then eat any creature that dies. Courser does a lot of work here, it's big enough to block, it gains life, and it's more common to include than Finks is, it also opens up using fetches more easily.
@Arianrhod, did you every try any brews with Lotus Cobra? Or Daze
Or have any examples of the old Landfall builds? There is hardly any mention of Cobra on this thread so perhaps the idea is older than I expected.
I was just thinking about some ways to abuse the little guy. Tracker obviously also gets value from land drops as well.
The main issue is what @Bobmans has brought up before:
But I was thinking that both Cobra and Tracker can make Scapeshift useful before it becomes lethal. With Tracker out, even a meager Scapeshift can provide 4 clues and 4 mana to pop two of them. Seems like that would demand a response and get you back in the game if it resolves. With Cobra out, a Scapeshift for 4 lands becomes 8 available mana, enough to GSZ for Primeval Titan.
Perhaps something could utilize self mill, Loam, and...Splendid Reclamation? Eh that seems way bad on its own.
Well...with Cobra out, and Scapeshift for 4...you get 8 available mana, then play Splendid Reclamation using 4. 4 lands come back into play, so you are back up to 8 available mana with 8 lands in play. Huh.
Even without Cobra, Scapeshift + Reclamation could basically double the number of lands you have on the field. That is peaking my interest a bit more. Do the jund scapeshift lists ever run Loam + stuff like Worm Harvest? A large graveyard could make Splendid Reclamation lethal just as Scapeshift is. Punishing Fire to handle DRS? Seems like it is worth exploring.
Lands from Scapeshift enter the battlefield tapped, sadly, so Shifting 4 lands for 4 others gives you 4 clues but no mana (unless you have Cobra).@Arianrhod, did you every try any brews with Lotus Cobra? Or Daze
Or have any examples of the old Landfall builds? There is hardly any mention of Cobra on this thread so perhaps the idea is older than I expected.
I was just thinking about some ways to abuse the little guy. Tracker obviously also gets value from land drops as well.
The main issue is what @Bobmans has brought up before:
But I was thinking that both Cobra and Tracker can make Scapeshift useful before it becomes lethal. With Tracker out, even a meager Scapeshift can provide 4 clues and 4 mana to pop two of them. Seems like that would demand a response and get you back in the game if it resolves. With Cobra out, a Scapeshift for 4 lands becomes 8 available mana, enough to GSZ for Primeval Titan.
Perhaps something could utilize self mill, Loam, and...Splendid Reclamation? Eh that seems way bad on its own.
Well...with Cobra out, and Scapeshift for 4...you get 8 available mana, then play Splendid Reclamation using 4. 4 lands come back into play, so you are back up to 8 available mana with 8 lands in play. Huh.
Even without Cobra, Scapeshift + Reclamation could basically double the number of lands you have on the field. That is peaking my interest a bit more. Do the jund scapeshift lists ever run Loam + stuff like Worm Harvest? A large graveyard could make Splendid Reclamation lethal just as Scapeshift is. Punishing Fire to handle DRS? Seems like it is worth exploring.
Scapeshift lists don't often run Loam because Dredging away a couple Mountains makes it really hard to combo kill people.
Very small sample, but I was able to scrounge up a couple random games against Grixis Tempo today. I went with my Monastery Mentor SB plan and it came together. It worked really well being able to go wide for Pyromancer tokens and have near infinite chumps of cards like Angler.
Cavern yet again played a huge role here in making counterspells bad.
Not yet sold on the plan, but if 2 Mentor/4 SDT is good enough for Miracles, I think it's good enough for me.
Hey everyone, I have been reading this thread for a few months now, but haven't really jumped in. I went 2-1-1 at tonight with a Rhino Fit deck, and my match vs. D&T (draw) was recorded. I will be doing a report soon, but wanted to post the link for people to view. I haven't watched yet, so I am sure I made a few errors, but hopefully everyone can learn from them.
Here is the recording:
https://www.twitch.tv/geekfortress/v/80737259
My match starts around 1:05.
Off to bed, but will try and post a decklist and tourney report in the coming days.
Neat, I saw a few sequencing errors though. A little before 1:33 you cast a a Vet with a Therapy in hand and the opponent at 1 card. The better sequencing in most scenarios is to cast Therapy first to clear the way. Even if you miss you clear it out because you'll follow it up with the Vet and then cast Therapy. The result is that the opponent never gets priority to kill the Vet, it's a small thing but matters a lot against StP decks.
Earlier against the Jitte equippped Revoker a double block would have been a good idea as well. Basically the outcomes of a double block with your Vet/Token are:
Eat 2 removal spells, Jitte gets no counters, Revoker dies
Eat 1 removal spells, Jitte gets counters, Revoker dies
Eat 0 removal spells, Jitte gets counters, both creatures die, Revoker dies
In any scenario your Sorin gets online again. With just one blocker you ended up with the worst case scenario which was that Revoker lives with a removal spell. If you're going to go that route though, you should block with the token. That way if Vet dies it will be to Jitte which will trigger the Vet, with the Jitte blocker you turn on an opposing StP for exile value rather than simply removing something.
In game 2 you got greedy with duals. With a fetch opening, going basic Forest into Vet, then your Scrubland on T2 still gives you all 3 colors. With the wasteland you might lose your WB but that's not as bad as losing your green. Especially since you can force a board stall by putting 2 Vets on defense.
In game 2 I think you pulled the trigger on that Path too early, you gave the opponent a chance to accelerate out of their Cataclysm and you could take a few more hits. I assume the thinking was that they didn't have more basics, but with only 5 out I'm not so sure how correct that is. Maybe if the opponent sold it better by looking and failing to find, but just not looking suggests they wanted to keep basics in their deck (especially after the Cataclysm came down to explain it).
Howdy folks!
I posted a tournament report on RhinoFit over on the /r/MTGLegacy subreddit from a local benefit tournament that was ran in my area. I finished at a 4-2 record just shy of top 8 at 11th out of 40-ish people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...benefit_event/
Thanks for reading!
Thank you! Those are all great suggestions. I hope more people can post videos - I want to learn these little nuances and watching others play seems like the best way.
Thanks again, and (hopefully) a report is coming soon.
Deleted by lack of interest.
Last edited by TTX; 08-03-2016 at 06:35 PM.
My recent list i am testing. What do you Guys think? Preparing for a greater Legacy Tournament so every help would be welcome.
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gadock Teeg
1 Nissa,Vastwood Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Gitrog Monster
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Dragonloard Dromoka
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun`s Zenith
1 Painful Truths
3 Sensei Divining Top
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian TOwer
1 Volraths Stronghold
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
SB
1 Elspeth Sun`S Champion
1 Vraska
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
2 Carpet of FLowers
2 Thoughtseize
2 SUrgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
1 Toxic Deluge
If you are expecting small creatures, Rhino Fit is fantastic. I'm probably the only person who plays the full four Rhinos, but holy crap they're an absolute beating to deal with. Also GSZ becomes a Lightning Bolt when your opponent is at a low life total.
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@Dalton,
In regards to your list, I think it has been noted that Gitrog is sub-optimal in general, I would suggest more Rhinos in it's stead. Also personally do not like DL Doromka because of the preponderance of Karakas at least in my meta.
BTW the idea of armada wurm is great, its reminds me of broodmate dragon when I played jund fit.
@DLD, perhaps it is a matter of flavor or playstyle, but i never had a situation where i wanted to flip DLD out of GSZ over either Sigarda or Siege Rhino.
Looking at your build i'd personally replace Meren, Gitrog and DLD for more Rhino's. Also i am not to fond of a manabase with only 3 duals and 4 utility lands. Meren and Arbor have some beautiful synergy, but playing those scream for equipment.
Having that said, out of all the NicFit builds i would choose a Rhino's Abbondanza list when i want to go for results playing NicFit. That build is really so straight forward and streamlined. But often i find myself playing Jund NicFit just for the flavor.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
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