I think so. It's a full turn faster which is a huge deal against combo decks. Even in Jund colors it's a little easier to cast too since you don't have to get your red for it.Originally Posted by square_two
Slaughter Games is a strong card, but in the times you want Lost Legacy speed really matters.
I also played against NO Elves a few times outside the tournament. We've got a pretty degenerate meta going on but still:
T2: I don't want to lose to Infernal Tutor/Sneak and Show/Natural Order.
Do not Lost Legacy Dredge. They're too redundant, and the last thing you want to do is hit something in their hand like Phantasmagorian, giving them free dredges. Dredge is the only match I've found so far where you actually care about the card draw.
Yes the meta is somewhat degenerate. Lots of t1-2 griselbrand/emrakul/marit lage (turbo depths online is common, annoyingly).
Storm seems to be rarer. I don't want to devote 2 slots to canonist in the side because it's only good against storm and elves, which are rarer decks online these days.
For that reason I am playing 2 TS main, arguably the best card against show and tell decks and very fast combo decks, and in the side: 2 needles (sneak attack, thespian stage, random walkers included JTMS), 1 duress (could be TS), 3 lost legacy, 2 to the slaughter, 1 teeg.
I'm am liking this configuration a lot. The lack of canonist against storm is somewhat balanced by lost legacy.
Hey everyone. I switched from Jund to Nic Fit a couple months ago and I am very happy with the change. I love playing a deck that is fun, competitive, requires a lot of thinking and that consists of cards that no one expects seeing (more on this a little later).
Last night I played in a local event and finished 3-1 with the following list:
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Siege Rhino
1 Atraxa, Praetor's Voice
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nissa, Vital Force
Side:
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Golgari Charm
2 Invasive Surgery
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
Round 1 vs BR Reanimator W 2-1
G1 - He mulliganed to a slow 6. I was able to path his Chancellor and beat him down with a Rhino and Nissa.
G2 - He had the nuts with T1 Griselbrand
G3 - T1 Cabal Therapy hitting an Entomb which basically won me the game because he had Exhume in hand and I had no other way to deal with Griselbrand in my hand. T2 I played GSZ into Deathrite and then GSZ into another Deathrite T4.
Round 2 vs 12 Post L 0-2
G1 - I was able to Abrupt Decay an Expedition Map to slow him down but he eventually played Void Winnower (I was a bit surprised to see this card). I blocked it with Explorer for a couple turns but could not find a Path or Pulse even with Senseis Top out and fetching a couple times. I also had Rhino and Atraxa in hand which I could not cast.
G2 - I mulligan to a bad 6 (5 lands and a Therapy). I decided to keep it even though I probably should have mulliganed. I actually was able to get two Rhinos out but he eventually played Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunter exiling both Rhinos.
Round 3 vs Storm W 2-1
G1 - He went off T3 even though I hit both a Brainstorm and Lion's Eye Diamond with Cabal Therapy T1 and T2.
G2 - T2 He got twelve 1/1s from Empty the Warrens and I magically topdecked Golgari Charm the very next turn.
G3 - Battle of the sideboard cards. T1 He played Duress and I had Invasive Surgery, GSZ, Tireless Tracker, Canonist, and 3 lands. He took the GSZ for some odd reason. T2 He played Cabal Therapy which I countered with Surgery and then played Canonist on my T2. He then Decayed it the following turn. I played Atraxa on T4 which attacked the next turn. He drew Chain of Vapor which he used on my Atraxa and then tried to go off with Ad Nauseam. He drew about 12 cards which brough him down to 2 life but he had no open mana and needed to a Lotus Petal or Lion's Eye Diamond. He took the risk of drawing one more card which was Burning Wish. The funny thing is, if he had passed at 2 life, I had no creatures on the board (Atraxa in hand) but I would have drawn a GSZ with 5 lands out. SIEGE RHINO FTW.
Round 4 vs Miracles W 2-1
G1 - I mulligan to a bad 6. My only land was Stonghold but had a Top so decided to keep it. I never saw a green source and pretty much all the cards in my hand were green.
G2 - T1 I play Carpet of Flowers. I end up playing 3 Rhinos within 5 turns. One Rhino he used Terminus on but he attempted to Terminus my 2nd Rhino which I countered with Invasive Surgery!
G3 - He plays T1 Ponder and I follow with T1 Top. He keeps two mana open T2 and I play Carpet. It resolves. T3 I played Witness getting a land back. T4 he plays Jace and fate seals himself telling me he did not have a great hand. On my T4, With 3 mana floating from Carpet and 4 lands out, I was able to play Pithing Needle on his Jace and then Sorin, Grim Nemesis which resolved. (Cue to Irene Cara's "What a Feeling"). I flip over Siege Rhino and then two turns later Nissa which I was able to play. This was by the far the best game I have ever had against Miracles. The look on his face when I played Surgery, Sorin, and Nissa was priceless.
Some thoughts:
- It felt refreshing being able to beat 2 fast combo decks as well as Miracles in one night. This deck has a chance against any deck.
- I fully understand why people play four Rhinos. I was playing two up until last night and I get why in some match ups you just want to play as many as you can. The card wins a lot of games.
- I like the second Nissa over Thragtusk.
- It is all about the sideboard against our bad match ups. Make sure you spend a lot of time with the sideboard.
- Make sure you don't attack before playing Nissa (assuming you want to attack with her).
- I am considering cutting Volrath's Stronghold for another fetch, basic, or dual since I almost never use Stronghold and that includes playing a lot online. Thoughts?
- What are your thoughts on Maelstrom Pulse vs Vindicate? Reclamation Sage vs Qasali Pridemage? Second Swamp vs Second Plains?
Stay tuned for another legacy tourney breakdown.
Last edited by Amulet of the HangingLamp; 01-13-2017 at 07:17 PM.
Pulse etc - metagame call.
Pulse is better against Empty the Warrens and slightly better against Goyf decks, but mediocre against Miracles and bad against Lands.
Vindicate is better against Miracles and D&T, okay against Lands.
Anguished Unmaking is great against Lands, good to okay against Miracles, and awful against Delver and Burn.
Beast Within is good against Lands and Miracles, mediocre elsewhere, but you need to build your deck around it somewhat / have lots of Rhinos or Jaces.
QPM is better if you have Meren in your list or other graveyard recursion. Reclamation Sage doesn't need white mana and gets around random junk like Suppression Field. If you're thinking of playing Renegade Rallier, QPM looks better there too.
Second swamp unless you're playing Sigarda or Elspeth Sun's Champion, in which case run the plains. If you have two swamps you can also afford to run Liliana LH if you want to which is nice sometimes.
New primer / thread should go up early next week. I decided I wasn't happy with the card choices section and am expanding it to be much more thorough, which delayed me a bit.
Just to chime in:
QPM is also another potential out to Infect (nexus) where Sage is useless.
QPM works fine with Stronghold.
(Just remember that to activate QPM ability YOU NEED A VALID TARGET)
Stronghold reaches its peak when paired with Phyrexian Tower AND Primetime.
Having no way to tutor for Stronghold greatly diminishes the reliability of playing such card in your deck.
Stronghold + Phyrexian + Prime is a great way to outgrind miracle.
My two cents !
Legacy & Homebrew **ONLY**
Brown Stax
Rainbow SWAT
Dimir Mill
Morph my Ride
Wally Wallah
Corona Syndrome
How are people feeling about Scavenging Ooze lately? I'm trying to find a slot for a Bojuka Bog, and Ooze comes across to me as too slow. It's also not something I ever GSZ for, for the body or effect. So I'm thinking I can go -1 Ooze +1 Bog in the MB. This also helps the land count which is normally lower due to Maze of Ith not providing mana.
I think I have removed ooze from every configuration I play. It is better in bug as a way to gain life, otherwise it is too slow. Everything impacts the board immediately: Sigarda Titans rhinos tusks nissa. Ooze takes time and when we need gy hate it is too slow. Lifegain is covered by rhinos or tusk already. I'd rather play a second drs or second tracker
Aside from maindeck Teeg or Pridemage there is not really a solid Green 2 cmc replacement right?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Voice, but only in a pod shell
I'm in straight BG so neither of those are options for me. However, I could still cut it for a land (since one of my lands doesn't produce mana). That's what I was leaning towards. Cut the Ooze, add a Bojuka Bog. Still have tutors for it with Crop Rotation. It leaves me with better GY hate, and better mana, but slightly fewer threats... though Ooze ranks pretty low as a threat.
Duskwatch Recruiter might get close (especially since I'm now lower on SDT's) but I haven't done the math on what you need for creatures to make it pay off. Some quick calculations suggest 20 creatures is the magic value to get a 70% activation success rate, but I think I want more than 70%. Sadly, SDT doesn't do much for activation success here. Paying 1 to ensure I can successfully pay 3 means I pay an average of 4.4 mana per extra threat drawn, while without SDT it's 4.29 mana per.
I suppose there's always Goyf.
I'm at 2 DRS and 2 Tracker already, I don't really think I want a third of either MB.
You brave brave man.
I suppose 2 DRS and 2 Tracker is fine aswell and drop Scooze completely. Hes hardly very relevant lately
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
After playing it a bit, I'm finding I like BG more than Junk. There's not really any bravery involved. I like Nissa over Sigarda and I like Diabolic Edict (especially in the current meta) over Path. After those two swaps are made, white really struggles to offer much.
Phantasmagorian means you're facing Manaless. I think I disagree. The deck's combo finish is your biggest enemy (since you don't have any counters or tax stuff). Being able to name Dread Return and shut down that road to victory is pretty damn good. But again, this is only vs. Manaless. After that you can start going after recurring creatures. Ichorids first.
Awesome!
To be fair, Reanimator is seeing a lot of play at the moment. It's just that Surgical & DRS are quicker. Once you manage to hit the lategame, Ooze is a fine wincon vs. those decks.
Scooze with enough mana often locks out any graveyard strategy, but getting there is often a B... Like said, SE and DRS are faster and most often enough. Scooze is the card that currently does the least and is boarded out the most.
It's just that is was always an auto include and mostly the only 2 drop.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Maybe have it in sideboard instead? To sideboard against gravedecks. He can still be GSZ.
When you start talking about, yeah Ooze is too slow. But there are no other good 2-drop.
I want one more Tireless Tracker in main and maybe ooze has to go. The issue is I already have to many three drops and like 3 two drops in the deck.
Brael, with the printing of Fatal Push, do you feel like this slots into your GB only lists? If so, how do you think you'd split between AD, Edict and Push? (and I guess Pulse)
I don't think that push has the reach we are looking for in additional removal.
Edit: considering a basic package of 3 deed, 3 Decay and Maybe 1 Pulse not discriminating any color splash.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I don't think I'll be running it in GB. Part of cutting a color was to make room for edicts which deal with the big stuff you typically need Swords/Path for. With my Deed count being so low, I like being higher on Decay too. I don't see where there's a slot it's competing for that I want it over other options.
My MB removal is
1 Maze of Ith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Then there's 2 Crop Rotations which can tutor Maze as needed. I just don't see where Push slots in easily over any of that.
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