[Article]Eternal Europe: Khan's Electric Kool Aid

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

And the rest of my set/brew review is out:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Overlook.html

Enjoy.

PS: Sorry to not have reacted to all the responses to last week's article yet, for once I haven't even managed to finish reading all of them, not even to speak of addressing them reasonably. I'm happy there was such an overwhelming amount of reaction, though that sadly also means I can't just take care of answering when I have a couple of minutes available to me. I'll do my best to get around to it sooner rather than later.

PPS: Kept my article title around for the thread instead of the official one ;)

[rufus]

Nice to see some other cards from the set discussed. There are probably better win cons, but Altar of the Brood would - at minimum - be a really annoying thing in egg decks.

[Darkenslight]

For what it's Worth, Jeskai Ascendancy is arguably the most combo-riffic card in the set. Combine it with two mana producers, or two copies with a single creature, Retraction Helix and a one-mana enchantment and you can go infinite. And that's in Standard right now. Altar of the Brood also allows you to mill a deck.

[FoolofaTook]

Altar of the Brood + Leonin Relic-Warder + Phyrexian Metamorph turns into an infinite mill combo the turn the Phyrexian Metamorph is cast with the other two on the table. That could be turn 3, as in turn 1 Altar, turn 2 Relic-Warder, turn 3 Metamorph using phyrexian mana to pay the 4th.

This works because Relic-Warder is a "may" card and so it does not have to banish the Altar when it comes down on turn 2.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Altar of the Brood + Leonin Relic-Warder + Phyrexian Metamorph turns into an infinite mill combo the turn the Phyrexian Metamorph is cast with the other two on the table. That could be turn 3, as in turn 1 Altar, turn 2 Relic-Warder, turn 3 Metamorph using phyrexian mana to pay the 4th.

This works because Relic-Warder is a "may" card and so it does not have to banish the Altar when it comes down on turn 2.

That's sick. A turn3 mill combo in Modern? I smell bans...

[Cire]

Altar of the Brood + Leonin Relic-Warder + Phyrexian Metamorph turns into an infinite mill combo the turn the Phyrexian Metamorph is cast with the other two on the table. That could be turn 3, as in turn 1 Altar, turn 2 Relic-Warder, turn 3 Metamorph using phyrexian mana to pay the 4th.

This works because Relic-Warder is a "may" card and so it does not have to banish the Altar when it comes down on turn 2.

How does this work exactly?

[Quizzlemanizzle]

How does this work exactly?

Phyrexian Metamorph copies the Warder and exiles itself then returns itself and so on?

[kusumoto]

Edit: Nevermind that sounds like fun.

[Barook]

That's sick. A turn3 mill combo in Modern? I smell bans...

Only if it's consistent.

Would also work wonderful with Soul Sisters, except Modern makes infinite life not so hot with all those infinite damage combos.

[Lord Seth]

That's sick. A turn3 mill combo in Modern? I smell bans...

Highly unlikely, considering it's magical christmas land when you're able to assemble it in that way, not to mention a single removal spell puts a kabosh on the entire thing.

Funny thing is, normally GR Tron's worst matchups are combo, but this is a matchup that GR Tron would win easily thanks to Emrakul and Ulamog.

[FoolofaTook]

I think you'd run the combo in Esper colors with discard, creature removal, some counters and Dig Through Time. You'd run Surgical Extraction main deck and you'd remove Emrakul with the trigger on the stack and watch your combo just continue through his reshuffle. It never ends. It gets broken up by other things that trigger but if you can then work past that event in the stack you're still in business.

You'd plan to go off whenever you assembled the combo and your control efforts would feed your GY on a regular basis to make that happen.

I don't know if it would be any good, but it wouldn't care about the opponent's life total and it would be a win once you'd assembled the combo. I think it is probably a manageable list in this meta.

[Tylert]

I think you'd run the combo in Esper colors with discard, creature removal, some counters and Dig Through Time. You'd run Surgical Extraction main deck and you'd remove Emrakul with the trigger on the stack and watch your combo just continue through his reshuffle. It never ends. It gets broken up by other things that trigger but if you can then work past that event in the stack you're still in business.

You'd plan to go off whenever you assembled the combo and your control efforts would feed your GY on a regular basis to make that happen.

I don't know if it would be any good, but it wouldn't care about the opponent's life total and it would be a win once you'd assembled the combo. I think it is probably a manageable list in this meta.

Transformational sideboard for Hatebears deck? :)

[FoolofaTook]

Transformational sideboard for Hatebears deck? :)

I think just white or black creature sweepers and decent spot removal for Teeg. The Relic-Warders already function as artifact and enchantment removal as well as being part of the combo so that opens up some space in the list.

If you wanted to transform in Esper then Hatebears would be a very interesting idea, although no Teeg so not sure where you'd wind up with that. Teeg is such a hoser against control and scapeshift and the like.

[rufus]

Hmm. Jeskai Ascendancy will cycle through the deck if you can go infinite so there are 3-card combos with stuff like:

Elite Arcanist (Manamorphose/Pact of the Titan...)
or
Master Transmuter + Mox Opal
or
Regrowth + Devoted Druid

[Lord Seth]

I think you'd run the combo in Esper colors with discard, creature removal, some counters and Dig Through Time. You'd run Surgical Extraction main deck and you'd remove Emrakul with the trigger on the stack and watch your combo just continue through his reshuffle.

So, now it turns from a subpar 3-card combo into an even worse 4-card combo. Seems not very good.

[Barook]

There's appearently a Modern combo deck list with Glittering Wish floating around:

2 Breeding Pool
4 Mana Confluence
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath

2 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Dryad Arbor

3 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Cerulean Wisps
3 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Glittering Wish
1 Grapeshot
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Treasure Cruise

1 Meddling Mage
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Guttural Response
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Manamorphose
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Simic Charm
4 Swan Song
1 Firespout
1 Maelstrom Pulse

[Finn]

Considering it has cards that are not yet legal, my bet is that it is roughly as good as what we are brainstorming about.

[Tylert]

I think just white or black creature sweepers and decent spot removal for Teeg. The Relic-Warders already function as artifact and enchantment removal as well as being part of the combo so that opens up some space in the list.

If you wanted to transform in Esper then Hatebears would be a very interesting idea, although no Teeg so not sure where you'd wind up with that. Teeg is such a hoser against control and scapeshift and the like.

I meant that the combo could be in a transformational sideboard of the hatebear deck!

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Altar of the Brood + Leonin Relic-Warder + Phyrexian Metamorph turns into an infinite mill combo the turn the Phyrexian Metamorph is cast with the other two on the table. That could be turn 3, as in turn 1 Altar, turn 2 Relic-Warder, turn 3 Metamorph using phyrexian mana to pay the 4th.

This works because Relic-Warder is a "may" card and so it does not have to banish the Altar when it comes down on turn 2.

That's a neat find. Not sure if the Relic Warder and Metamorph are good enough to be worth playing on their own but if they are, I could see this being at least fringe playable in a Modern deck with Trinket Mages (if there's a list that wants the other two). As to what shell that kind of thing might go into, I'm not familiar enough with Modern to have a solid guess. Your Esper idea sounds promising, that deck might even want to combine it with Rufus's Tranmuter/Opal idea for Ascedancy as that angle could also use Altar as its natural kill condition to loot into while using the Relic Warders and Metamorphs as both a back up way to go off and a modicum of defense/interaction. Tidehollow Sculler is an artifact already and Thoughcast could be pretty neat with Ascedancy in the first place (turning it into a one mana Thirst for Knowledge without the artifact discard requirement that also untaps your creatures). Not sure if all of that leaves enough room for "real" (as in high powered) cards, though.

@Barook: Sounds like someone took my list, read Travis Woo's comment about Glittering Wish and decided to run with it & start to actually tune it. Not sure if it can actually be right to cut Pyromancer Ascension from the deck - the cantrips should make it easy to get active from my limited experience with my list and with Manamorphose it should often be enough to go off when you can't find Ascendancy/a living mana dork. I'm happy to see other people exploring the engine, though.
Also, that list probably wants at least a Treasured Find or something similar in the board (or some actual wincon) so that you can safely discard the Grapeshot to Ascedancy/an opponent's Thoughtseize.

@Rufus: Master Transmuter plus Opal is a neat find, actually. I'm definitely interested to see if something can be done with that (once again more likely in Modern because of what the combo-competition looks like in Legacy).
Devoted Druid is pretty interesting even without Regrowth, actually, if the deck has a solid sink for green mana, seeing as every spell allows it to tap for two mana instead of just one. Good job brainstorming!