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Thread: Cube: Beta - The Dark

  1. #1
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    Cube: Beta - The Dark

    This project has grown in scale pretty significantly since I originally posted about it. From my experiences documented within the thread, I've determined a static cube can get stale or solved after enough use. I've also found it difficult at times to find 7 other people willing to spend an evening playing Magic with my cards rather than the ones they've purchased and compiled into decks...

    So I've expanded the cardpool all the way to Alliances and no longer intend to have a static group of 360 cards. Instead I will do my very best to acquire as many of the cards from Beta through Alliances. From that cardpool I will be able to construct a cube of 360 cards or even as few as 180 (because it is usually easier to find 3 interested players). This will allow me to find several different ways to make a fun cube and will hopefully keep the experience fun and exciting for anyone choosing to join me.

    Follow this link to a listing of all the cards I currently have.

    As I construct various cardpools, I intend to document them so it can be revisited in the future if proven to be enjoyable.







    Below is the text from my original post:
    ------------

    I finally sold off my goblins deck. :-(
    But the deck that got me into Legacy will live on in spirit by helping finance my cube!

    I am a huge fan of the look and style of the original sets of Magic. I also suffered a minor bite from the collector bug at some point in my life. This project will let me indulge in my desire to own and play with many cards I would otherwise never have had the excuse to own or play with.

    This thread will act as a blog of sorts, documenting the construction and development of my cube. Eventually I hope to post pictures of the 40 card decks constructed from drafts for everyone to enjoy.


    So here are the guidelines I have set for myself:
    • All cards must be from Beta, Antiquities, Arabian Nights, Legends, or The Dark (Alpha is excluded because of price and different corners)
    • This is NOT a powered cube
    • This is NOT a highlander cube
    • No Banding

    The original sets were not designed with drafting in mind. But there is a large enough card pool to pick and choose a selection of cards that encourage a fun limited environment. Most cards will only have one copy in the cube, but some seem fine to have in multiples (Lightning Bolt, Giant Growth, Terror all come to mind). There are also cards with 4 different arts (Mishra's Factory, Strip Mine) which seem safe enough to include 4 copies of.

    Legendary cards will be one-of's as well as cards that name a specific thing (I'm looking at you Uncle Istvan).


    My first goal is to get 360 usable cards. From there I will slowly start adding more valuable cards until I am happy with the balance between power and enjoyment. Due to the collectability of cards from these sets, I fear I have been priced out of getting any Birds of Paradise... Wah wah! Pricing will probably limit me to one copy of many iconic cards like Wrath of God and Shivan Dragon. But we will see what the future brings!
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 11-20-2017 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Good luck with this man! I can't wait to play once it's done.

    You should truly get the birds of paradise, it's an investment and you'll always want one. Get it !

  3. #3
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsey View Post
    Good luck with this man! I can't wait to play once it's done.
    I'm hoping to have a usable pile by the end of the year, if not sooner! Since I'm not using proxies, we can get Karl to sanction our draft to build up planeswalker points!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsey View Post
    You should truly get the birds of paradise, it's an investment and you'll always want one. Get it !
    As soon as I have $400 lying around that wouldn't be better spent on anything else, I'll look into buying one (!) copy...





    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is the original 'usable pile' I constructed.


    Beta - The Dark Cube Card List

    White Cards (57)


    Blue Cards (57)


    Black Cards (57)


    Red Cards (57)


    Green Cards (57)


    Multicolor Cards (16)


    Artifacts (40)


    Non-Basic Lands (19)
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 08-22-2017 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Amazing project and I really love it. I'm looking forward the pictures!

    Also, as a firm believer in "lets not waste money" doctrine, I recommend Unlimited whenever possible. If the white boarders pester you too much, you may always support your local friendly alterer who'll bb-ize your cards for the fraction of real betas' cost, and he may be nice enough to take care of the white dots if you'll give him a chocolade, cigar or w/e his favourite joy. ;)
    Otoh, beta-only will be extremely nice.

  5. #5

    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    There's probably a couple of issues you'll have to sort out with this project.

    For starters, green. Green is terrible in these sets. It's supposed to be - among other things - the color of ramp and fatties, but the fatties are mostly bad, saddled with hideous drawbacks, and/or die to the format's flagship cheap removal. Actually, pretty much all of the fatties are bad in these sets. You've got Serra Angel, Sengir Vampire, Shivan Dragon, Mahamoti Djinn, and...um...Craw Wurm? The Legends common and uncommon legendaries are probably some of the best beef players can run.

    Second, removal. You've got some incredibly powerful one-for-ones, like Terror, Bolt, Chain Lightning, and StP. Then you've got efficient sweepers like Disk and WoG. The problem is that after all that, the removal that's left is hot garbage. Green has zero actually playable removal and blue has basically just Unsummon. Red has some burn spells and Fissure, which is probably sufficient since most of the 3+ toughness guys are crap. White has Swords and WoG, but after that its "removal" is just damage prevention/redirection effects unless you want to run Balance. Black has Terror and not much else.

    So, yeah, I could see the format quickly devolving into ground stalls between weenie armies since fatties will either die at the drop of a hat or be unplayably awful out of the gates. If you can solve that problem, though, it should be a fun cube.

  6. #6
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    BDP - As a last resort, I'll take a sharpie to some revised cards.

    Aggro Zombies - Thank you for the constructive concerns! I am certain you are right. Since these sets were not designed with limited in mind, it will take effort to craft a cube from the available card pool that has a balance. My goal is for the pool to allow players to construct a deck that will win or lose before they get tired of playing. Ground stalls are awful!

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    BDP - As a last resort, I'll take a sharpie to some revised cards.

    Aggro Zombies - Thank you for the constructive concerns! I am certain you are right. Since these sets were not designed with limited in mind, it will take effort to craft a cube from the available card pool that has a balance. My goal is for the pool to allow players to construct a deck that will win or lose before they get tired of playing. Ground stalls are awful!
    In your place I'd go for ABU - Alliances.
    It will have the amazing old school look, but you'll get some more removal like Incinerate, Dark Banishing, Feast or Famine, Contagion, Reprisal, Exile and tools like Binding Grasp + Crown of Ages. Several more green beef enter the scene too, be it Autumn Willow, Lhurgoyf and... uhm... well... Johtull Wurm, Deadly Insect, Hungry Mist and Yavimaya Ants.

    In fact it hurts me that Sloshthedark is such a pussy. I'd love to play me some Old School.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    I initially determined the card pool based on the copyright line at the bottom of the card. All the cards from Beta through The Dark share the same style. Once you go from Fallen Empires on, there is an extra line of copyright text. That certainly isn't the best reason to draw a line, so I am open to the idea of expanding the range but not until after I explored the possibility of keeping it to these 5 sets.

    Looking through Beta I was actually surprised at how much direct damage the old cards allow for. There is usually a drawback or it is just pinging, but there's quite a few. Same with combat tricks.

    Blaze of Glory
    Swords to Plowshares
    Wrath of God
    Pirate Ship
    Prodigal Sorcerer
    Psionic Blast
    Unsummon
    Drain Life
    Paralyze
    Pestilence
    Royal Assassin
    Terror
    Weakness
    Earthbind
    Earthquake
    Fireball
    Lightning Bolt
    Orcish Artillery
    Camouflage
    Cockatrice
    Hurricane
    Thicket Basilisk
    Nevinyrral's Disk
    Rod of Ruin

    That's just in Beta, so we'll see...
    I took a look at green's creature selection after Aggro Zombies mentioned how weak it is. It is pretty sad...

    Spent about $500 in credit on stuff this morning. I'm most excited about getting a Lord of the Pit!

    Question for those who have already figured this kind of thing out:
    How many basic lands do you need for a cube?

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Question for those who have already figured this kind of thing out:
    How many basic lands do you need for a cube?
    I have 50 of each sleeved up and I've never run out of anything for an 8-man pod. You could probably get away with less though - if you figure there are 2 drafters of each color at the table, and possibly a 3rd guy running a splash that's probably about 25 or so lands needed per color (11 per drafter and 3 for the splash). If you're trying to support mono-colored decks you might need more (~17 per drafter).

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    (~17 per drafter).
    Right!
    8 x 17
    Duh...

    I think my goal to start will be 10 lands of each art.
    Thanks D!

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Right!
    8 x 17
    Duh...

    I think my goal to start will be 10 lands of each art.
    Thanks D!
    That's what...30 per color? That's probably fine for an 8-man cube.

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    If you increae the cube to FEL and above, you'd get things like Aeolipile, SERRATED ARROWS, Flare... I think you should try the cube first to see how it works, and then if you'll realize it's not good enough, you may always expand it to FEL - ALL.
    Btw, speaking of your limit: it's not exactly wrong, but neither it's necessary. You have old tap symbol in FEL. You got old school look and design from ABU to ALL. There are lots of possibilities. For the sake of playability, I'd go with ABU (ok, BU) to Alliances.
    Frankly, I'd love to squeeze some of the Mirage cards, esp. fetchlands, but this is more about Old Scool Constructed than OS Limited. :)

    Btw, I really miss those days. Magic was so much... well, not exactly better, definitely not, maybe not even nicer (lots of cards were woefully ugly),but it was different. Also, the joy of exploration...

  13. #13
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    That's what...30 per color? That's probably fine for an 8-man cube.
    At least to start... These lands are 3-4 bucks each. That's $450 to 600 just on basic lands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    If you increae the cube to FEL and above, you'd get things like Aeolipile, SERRATED ARROWS, Flare... I think you should try the cube first to see how it works, and then if you'll realize it's not good enough, you may always expand it to FEL - ALL.
    Btw, speaking of your limit: it's not exactly wrong, but neither it's necessary. You have old tap symbol in FEL. You got old school look and design from ABU to ALL. There are lots of possibilities. For the sake of playability, I'd go with ABU (ok, BU) to Alliances.
    Frankly, I'd love to squeeze some of the Mirage cards, esp. fetchlands, but this is more about Old Scool Constructed than OS Limited. :)

    Btw, I really miss those days. Magic was so much... well, not exactly better, definitely not, maybe not even nicer (lots of cards were woefully ugly),but it was different. Also, the joy of exploration...
    I got my first Magic cards when Revised came out. A lot of the packs I remember buying were from The Dark. I quit when Fallen Empires came out cause I realized they would just keep making more cards and I'd never be able to keep up. I was really happy with my mono- deck and it did well in my meta (of 2 other friends). It frustrated me to think that my deck might get invalidated by new cards. I never got into any kind of competitive constructed, just living room floor Magic.
    I got back into Magic after college when I saw that the card pool was so large, anything I could imagine was probably possible. I upgraded to living room table Magic, then LGS EDH, and finally Legacy.

    I am hoping to capture the spirit of a modern draft (plenty of limited only filler with some intended synergy/strategy and the occasional bomb) with the nostalgia of the Magic I started with, except more pimp cause I have a job now. I also want to get this finished before starting a family cause I know all of my 'disposable income' will become 'kid expenses'.

    This has also motivated me to go through EVERY card I own and sell it or give it to my LGS as bulk card board for a couple bucks in credit. It is somewhat theraputic to see the collection that once dominated my desk/shelf/floor space can now be neatly contained in one shelf of a bookcase and a backpack.

  14. #14
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    This should help you:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...4-cube-shazaam

    My advice, if you are unpowered, go farther than M94. I'm an M94 junkie, but adding FE and Ice Age blocks will add a lot more creatures into the mix. That said, be careful with black if Order of Ebon Hand, Necropotence, Black Knight, Twist, etc are all in the cube , as it can get out of hand really quickly (I'm looking at you Ritual).

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I got my first Magic cards when Revised came out. A lot of the packs I remember buying were from The Dark. I quit when Fallen Empires came out cause I realized they would just keep making more cards and I'd never be able to keep up.
    I want to write about this. Unfortunatel,y I don't have neither nor audience...

    Go for ABU - Alliances. You'll really get so much more creatures and stuff (yes, you need to be careful with black, maybe exclude Necropotence), and you'll get pretty cheap lands even in black boarders. Oh, speaking of Ice Age: the painlands!

  16. #16
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by mini1337s View Post
    This should help you:
    Thank you mini1337s!!

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Any progress on this? Since I linked you that, I've been doing a bunch of Cubetutor drafts of the Beta cube (http://cubetutor.com/draft/559). Would love to see what you've come up with.

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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by mini1337s View Post
    Any progress on this? Since I linked you that, I've been doing a bunch of Cubetutor drafts of the Beta cube (http://cubetutor.com/draft/559). Would love to see what you've come up with.
    Eehhh sorta...
    I can narrow down the multicolored from the selection available.

    Multicolored

    Rakdos
    Axelrod Gunnarson
    Boris Devilboon
    Lady Orca
    Pavel Maliki
    Tor Wauki

    Azorious
    Gosta Dirk
    Jedit Ojanen
    Kasimir the Lone Wolf
    Tobias Andrion
    Rasputin Dreamweaver

    Selesnya
    Jasmine Boreal
    Lady Caleria
    Lord Magnus
    Sir Shandlar of Eberyn
    Torsten Von Ursus

    Gruul
    Jerrard of the Closed Fist
    Livonya Silone
    Stangg
    Sunastian Falconer
    The Lady of the Mountain

    Dimir
    Nebuchadnezzar
    Ramirez DePietro
    Ramses Overdark
    Sivitri Scarzam
    Ur-Drago

    Jund
    Adun Oakenshield
    Xira Arien

    Esper
    Dakkon Blackblade
    Lady Evangela

    Grixis
    Gwendlyn Di Corci
    Sol'kanar the Swamp King

    Naya
    Jacques le Vert
    Johan

    Bant
    Ragnar
    Rubinia Soulsinger

    Plus these from The Dark:
    Dark Heart of the Wood
    Marsh Goblins
    Scarwood Goblins

    That's 38 and I'm pretty happy with that number of multicolored cards.
    I should have a majority of those cards tomorrow!
    Last edited by Ace/Homebrew; 09-29-2014 at 11:37 PM.

  19. #19

    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    After playing a lot of AAA draft I think Rb aggro is actually pretty OP. If you look at the mana efficiency of spells and creatures vs the rest of the format, you have:
    Lightning Bolt
    Terror
    Fissure
    Fireball
    Disintegrate
    Gauntlet of Might (this card is disgustingly good, making your creatures and X spells so much better, P1P1 and archetype-forcing)
    Sol Ring
    Mana Vault (these cards are strong in any deck, but so much stronger with the X burn and with the efficient 5-6 drops you can power out)
    Firebreathing (actually pretty silly on any flyer or with Dwarven Warriors LOLOL)
    Goblin Balloon Brigade (usually unplayable, but hilarious with Firebreathing and not bad with Goblin King and Gauntlet)
    Ironclaw Orcs
    Erg Raiders
    Black Knight
    Sedge Troll (stupid good for Limited. 3/3 regenerates for 2R?? in a format with Hill Giant??)
    Granite Gargoyle
    Hypnotic Specter (awkward to splash, but worth it)
    Orcish Artillery (reusable removal = crazy advantage)
    Uthden Troll
    Dwarven Warriors (blue decks need to run Prodigal Sorcerer just to stop red decks from comboing this + Firebreathing)
    Dragon Whelp
    Roc of Kher Ridges
    Juggernaut
    Fire Elemental
    Earth Elemental
    Stone Giant
    Two-Headed Giant of Foriys
    Sengir Vampire
    Shivan Dragon

    Between that wide card pool, pretty easy to throw together a red-heavy aggro deck that actually would contend with a lot of modern day Limited decks.

    Meanwhile other colors have limited removal options and not the greatest creatures outside of rares (green gets Grizzly and Giant Spider and Cockamouse, but come on now).

  20. #20
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    Re: Cube: Beta - The Dark

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    After playing a lot of AAA draft I think Rb aggro is actually pretty OP.
    Thank you for sharing! I wouldn't have considered Dwarven Warriors.
    Gauntlet, Sol Ring, and Mana Vault probably won't be a part of this cube though...

    I believe I narrowed down what cards I want to include! Here's what I'm thinking:

    Instant (7)
    3 Lightning Bolt
    Blood Lust
    Fork
    Shatter
    Fissure

    Sorcery (7)
    2 Disintegrate
    2 Stone Rain
    Earthquake
    2 Chain Lightning

    Enchantment (5)
    Earthbind
    2 Firebreathing
    Orcish Oriflamme
    Raging River

    Creatures (36)

    1 CMC (9)
    2 Kird Ape
    Goblin Digging Team
    Goblins of the Flarg
    2 Goblin Balloon Brigade
    3 Mons's Goblin Raiders

    2 CMC (1)
    Rock Hydra

    3 CMC (15)
    Ball Lightning
    Fire Drake
    Brothers of Fire
    Sisters of the Flame
    Goblin Hero
    Dwarven Demolition Team
    Dwarven Warriors
    Goblin King
    Gray Ogre
    Hurloon Minotaur
    Orcish Artillery
    Sedge Troll
    Uthden Troll
    Wall of Fire
    Wall of Stone

    4 CMC (7)
    Mountain Yeti
    2 Dragon Whelp
    Hill Giant
    Keldon Warlord
    Roc of Kher Ridges
    Stone Giant

    5 CMC (3)
    Fire Elemental
    Earth Elemental
    Two-Headed Giant of Foriys

    6 CMC (1)
    Shivan Dragon

    That is 55 cards, which is what I currently have allotted for each color. Again, I'm looking for mostly 'limited' playable cards with the occasional bomb or nostalgic card.

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