Cards that need to be reprinted for Modern

[YamiJoey]

Legacy is a T1/T2 format. If you've not threatened to do something relevant, or got a hand full of interaction (or no longer have because you've cast it all) then you are not playing a real deck. I play the slowest deck in the format, and I can kill people on turn 3 with Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top + untapped lands. Other cards do not keep a format 'in check', they are simply methods of interacting so that you can get your broken shit to happen instead.

[Mr. Safety]

Cards I would love to see reprinted for modern use:

Tangle Wire
Devastating Dreams
Daze
Fires of yavimaya (and saproling burst!)
Flusterstorm
Mirri's Guile
Delusions of Grandeur/Donate
Cabal Coffers
Exalted Angel (next khans set?)

[FoolofaTook]

No free counters for Modern. Free counters are the bane of constructed Magic. The illusion of safety overweights them and tilts the format towards them, creating staleness.

Things that should be added:

Vindicate.
Pernicious Deed.
Swords to Plowshares.
Innocent Blood.
Counterspell.
Chain-Lightning.
Sylvan Library.
Land Tax.
Dark Ritual.
Cabal Ritual.
Desperate Ritual.
Pyretic Ritual.
Fastbond. (No Timetwister or Wheel of Fortune)
Wasteland.
Stifle.
Golgari Grave-Troll.
Putrid Imp.
Dread Return.
Ichorid. (yes to most of the dredge stuff, the format is loaded with hate for dredge, no to LED)
Every Goblin ever printed except Goblin Recruiter. (StP and Innocent Blood need to come in also if Lackey is added.)
Every Elf ever printed plus Wirewood Symbiote. (No Gaea's Cradle, No Glimpse of Nature, No Natural Order)
Every Merfolk ever printed except TNN. (Ditto)

Stuff that is on the edge of reasonable:

Hymn to Tourach (Can't run Suicide-black without Hymn or Sinkhole and it's a good archetype for the overall meta)
Sinkhole
Mind Twist (might be over-bearing in blue control but probably not, the meta is faster than that now)
True-Name Nemesis (not format-warping and many ways to remove him even if he would be a bit over-bearing in blue control/aggro-control)
Stoneforge Mystic (ban Batterskull and all the Swords, leave Jitte on the ban list. This would make TNN even more reasonable. There are many playable equipment suppressed by just a few and none game-breakers on their own.)

Stuff that cannot enter for various reasons:

Deathrite Shaman (meta-warping)
Black Vise (meta-warping)
Ankh of Mishra (meta-warping)
Armageddon (too many lists have no defenses available for a game-defining Sorcery)
Sol Ring, Mishra's Workshop (too much permanent mana acceleration as a 4-of and nothing should be restricted in Modern)
Dual-lands (eliminate most of the trade-offs for multi-color lists, lead to best card lists more than any other single factor)

[Phoenix Ignition]

No free counters for Modern. Free counters are the bane of constructed Magic. The illusion of safety overweights them and tilts the format towards them, creating staleness.

Things that should be added:

Dark Ritual.
Cabal Ritual.
Desperate Ritual.
Pyretic Ritual.

I'm curious how you justify these 2 statements together. We've seen UR storm decks be incredibly powerful and consistent, one of the large factors leading towards the ban of cantrips. How do you think the meta could fight all of the rituals boosting storm strategies without any additional counterspells?

[Mr. Safety]

I feel that daze would be fine. Losing a land drop in modern is much more painful than legacy, power comes with a higher mana cost. Look at Deprive...which is essentially Counterspell but also essentially unplayable. The drawback is too much. Daze on the other hand could potentially add an early game weapon for tempo and control strategies. It would also be much more challenging to profitably utilize daze because bouncing a shock and replaying it invites a disastrous life loss situation. Burn is a thing. I just think it would put some spice into the format is all. I think playing around it in legacy encourages a generally higher level of play and that tension would be interesting. Without wasteland Daze gets a lot more fair.

[apple713]

I feel that daze would be fine. Losing a land drop in modern is much more painful than legacy, power comes with a higher mana cost. Look at Deprive...which is essentially Counterspell but also essentially unplayable. The drawback is too much. Daze on the other hand could potentially add an early game weapon for tempo and control strategies. It would also be much more challenging to profitably utilize daze because bouncing a shock and replaying it invites a disastrous life loss situation. Burn is a thing. I just think it would put some spice into the format is all. I think playing around it in legacy encourages a generally higher level of play and that tension would be interesting. Without wasteland Daze gets a lot more fair.

deprive is terrible considering you have access to mana leak.

i agree daze would be fine because land drops in modern are worse due to shock lands.

[barcode]

The only card I want for Modern is Baleful Strix. It's really the only card a UB Tezzeret deck needs to be viable.

[TsumiBand]

Foil would probably be fine, right?

[Maagler]

Foil would probably be fine, right?

That would be really good with cruise in the format. I don't think it would be broken though, just good.

[Mr. Safety]

deprive is terrible considering you have access to mana leak.

i agree daze would be fine because land drops in modern are worse due to shock lands.

Deprive doesn't fight with mana leak...it fights with cryptic command
Early game you can't take the tempo loss. Mid-late game cryptic command is better. Mana leak is awful late game unless you sandbag two of them...and giving your opponent a 2 for 1 always feels great. Mana leak is a neccessity in the format, not a feel-good counterspell.

[apple713]

Foil would probably be fine, right?

ya but it wouldn't see play.

[Di]

Foil would probably be fine, right?

Considering it simply discards the cards and doesn't exile them, this would be obnoxious with delve cards and all of a sudden Scapeshift and Splinter Twin have a field day.

[gainsay]

Patron Wizard would be really great.

[FoolofaTook]

I'm curious how you justify these 2 statements together. We've seen UR storm decks be incredibly powerful and consistent, one of the large factors leading towards the ban of cantrips. How do you think the meta could fight all of the rituals boosting storm strategies without any additional counterspells?

Because you don't always go first and frequently a combo list that has one card taken out of it's hand loses the game as a result. Combo isn't like most strategies because it relies heavily on being able to find the cards it needs exactly when it needs them in order to turn on the many boosters included in the list.

Magic isn't perfect in terms of predictability and results. Attempts to make it more perfect in that way make it less Magic in the process. Because even those attempts frequently fail to the random nature of what is essentially a game of chance.

Having a hidden counterspell hovering over the game is the worst thing that WotC has ever done in terms of herding players towards a specific play style. There are answers to almost everything that a person can do on turn 1 before you've gotten a chance to play. There are a few things that can't be answered, but those things aren't predictable to a great degree by turn 1 and the lists that try to increase that predictability tend to become more of a glass-cannon in the process.

Every time I watch a moderately long game go over after 9 or 10 turns because somebody just drew land for 4 turns running I wonder why the early game has been slowed down so much. It's not like dying the death of a thousand drips 10% of the time is any less frustrating than losing on turn 1 10% of the time. With the exception of Vintage all of the formats have been pushed towards a heavier concentration of agonizing slow losses based largely on the fact that Magic is a game of chance.

It'd be better to restore the majesty of the game by re-enabling some of the early zing that has been removed by hidden counters (in Legacy) and the inevitability of mid-range combos (in Modern). Adding hidden counters to Modern wouldn't make it better. Adding some of the zing would however. The mid-range combos would be vulnerable to faster combo.

[TsumiBand]

That would be really good with cruise in the format. I don't think it would be broken though, just good.

I usually fail this game for whatever reason (math hard ungh) but like, isn't that barely parity in the long run?

I cast Foil w/alternative cost: -3 cards out of hand. I cast Cruise: -1, -4. It resolves, I draw: +3, total -1.

So I guess the whole cycle in a vacuum is -1 card total, but it isn't always that simple (or maybe I've misevaluated the raw card IO, for some reason I like to fuck up this simple stuff)

Considering it simply discards the cards and doesn't exile them, this would be obnoxious with delve cards and all of a sudden Scapeshift and Splinter Twin have a field day.

Maybe as a discard outlet it is annoying, sure. Delve might bank on it, but Delve isn't exactly the easiest mechanic to spam or strictly build against (not like, say, Affinity -- no one's playing 20 Delve cards in the main successfully, right). I'd be willing to let control players occasionally whiff on 5cmc removal spells if it meant they were more able to kick combo in the breakfast.

Otherwise there's, like, Thwart :(

[YamiJoey]

You forgot that you kill a card, so it's complete parity. You are also probably at a massive tempo advantage. You could feasably cast a T1 'Seize, T2 tap out, do this, then Cruise on T3 with two mana open. Foil also only costs 4 in a format where Cryptic is playable. That means that you get to the cast it normally point WAY sooner than Force in Legacy, so I'll say it: Foil in Modern would be better than Force in Legacy.

I think that free Spells are too good for Modern, generally. We have Pacts which are either combo cards (Summoner's Pact, Pact of Negation) or allow fair decks to do slightly unfair things (Slaughter Pact) and that's it. We have some Suspend Spells which are fine, and Delve Spells, which are awful in a Remand format, but Ancestral is so powerful it could not matter less what your opponent was doing when you cast it. If it ever resolves you become too far ahead for anything they did to matter.

I want Doomsday, and then I don't care.

[zulander]

it wouldn't matter how powerful the format was because the other cards would keep it in check, like legacy... its really an all or nothing proposition.

then play legacy... duh.

[Di]

You forgot that you kill a card, so it's complete parity. You are also probably at a massive tempo advantage. You could feasably cast a T1 'Seize, T2 tap out, do this, then Cruise on T3 with two mana open. Foil also only costs 4 in a format where Cryptic is playable. That means that you get to the cast it normally point WAY sooner than Force in Legacy, so I'll say it: Foil in Modern would be better than Force in Legacy.

That's a bit of a stretch. And by a bit, I mean a lot.

Granted I believe Foil would be completely unfair in the format based on tempo alone, it's not ubiquitous like Force of Will is. It actually requires Islands, which does put slight restraints on the manabase and subsequently deck building. That's far less than adding 18-20 blue cards that naturally happen to be good. But players would easily be able to adapt that, and a deck like Splinter Twin would have no issue running additional Islands to fuel this.

But the concept of a T2-3 Foil into an effortless T3-4 Dig or Cruise is such a blowout that I can't possibly believe it'd be healthy. Though I do think it'd also be an awesome card (albeit probably too awesome) for Standard as well, but meh.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I've been considering it for a while and retract my "Force of Will would be fine in Modern" sentiment. While I believe it currently would be fine since it doesn't fit in many decks and hits the ubiquitous 2 card combos in modern pretty hard, I also remember arguing the correct number of blue cards you "needed" to add to a deck to be able to play 4x FoW on this site like 6 years ago. The funny thing was back then, blue wasn't the monstrosity it is now. Force of Will was always a great card, but it forced you to play extra blue cards that at the time weren't worth playing otherwise, and its drawbacks actually had to be respected.

As more and more cards were printed in blue, it now is a dominating powerhouse of Legacy, and there are exactly 0 threads dedicated to how many blue cards you "need" to play with it since if you're playing a Legacy deck that isn't a linear strategy, you just play a lot of blue. I think the same thing will happen to Modern over time, as there are more good cards printed in each color, the "drawback" of running heavy on one color drops off a lot. Kind of like the critical mass of Lightning Bolt experiment, where burn decks are getting closer and closer to being able to run 40 cards that say "1 mana, 3 damage."

I don't think free counterspells in general are too good to print, but they do need significant drawbacks. I mean, Commandeer is Modern legal and sees little to no play (although I did when Tron was huge to snag Karns). Daze may be one of the ones that could help out Modern to force people to think twice before just curving out, and I really do like that aspect of Legacy/Vintage. Maybe it needs to have more of a drawback than Daze, but I'd like to see something along those lines.

[YamiJoey]

Fetchlands are actively bad in Modern, anyway. Your key draw Spell is Serum Visions, not Brainstorm or Ponder. Fetchlands work awkwardly with that. They're only good because A) They're broke as shit with duals, and B) They allow you to leave yourself open, and play a tapped Shockland at the same time, without having too much investment. It requiring an Island does limit it to U, and very light splashes. The kinds where you still end up with around 16 Islands.

Commandeer is not a good analogue. It cannot counter Creatures, so it does almost nothing against Pod, and only counters a card like Twin if there's another target. Commandeer works in decks that don't play a lot of Creatures, so most of the time it won't interact with those combo decks favourably. It costs 3 cards to counter one, and then cast one. Depending on what that card is, it may well be a 3-1. More often it will be a 2-1 with tempo attached, but it's also discarding 3 Spells, which is a very high bar.

I think free countermagic is in that place where it is either broken as hell, or just crap. Either way, we don't want it in Modern.

I want Gush.