[Article]Eternal Europe: I hate to say it, but...

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Please forgive the somewhat self-satisfied opening (there's a solid bit of irony intended in the tone, not sure if that comes through in the written word), but I couldn't resist after how much arguing I had to do during the last couple of weeks:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ay-It-But.html

A note, as the article was (obviously) written a couple of days ago before I had time to do any testing with Bobs list. Swiftspear is actually even better than I thought. Bob's comparison to Tarmogoyf from the coverage is actually often spot on, making the deck even better than I already thought it was. The clock the deck usually provides is quite frightening indeed.

[iamajellydonut]

"I told you so"s are in order when the card moves beyond a variant of a single deck. Yes, it won New Jersey, but that was the only showing of either card, and Indy was dominated by a full top 4 of Elves. Treasure Cruise and its cousin have failed to make an impact anywhere else and attempts have gathered largely "meh" reviews.

[Lemnear]

"I told you so"s are in order when the card moves beyond a variant of a single deck. Yes, it won New Jersey, but that was the only showing of either card, and Indy was dominated by a full top 4 of Elves. Treasure Cruise and its cousin have failed to make an impact anywhere else and attempts have gathered largely "meh" reviews.

Tbh if most peoples deck building skills match their ability to evaluate cards, I would not be surprised if Treasure Cruise underperforms in their decks. Hell, people even stick it in 12-Post which is a permanent-based deck which can play Kozilek instead for a card-advantage burst. I saw people throwing it into Miracles too. Don't give a fuck about peoples testing which lacks basic understanding of the concept behind the card to test.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

"I told you so"s are in order when the card moves beyond a variant of a single deck. Yes, it won New Jersey, but that was the only showing of either card, and Indy was dominated by a full top 4 of Elves. Treasure Cruise and its cousin have failed to make an impact anywhere else and attempts have gathered largely "meh" reviews.

We must be reading very different forums as even a lot of the people who thought the cards were terrible are now in the boat from what I've seen. Not to mention both top 8s already had other decks playing small amounts of either delve card (forgot to mention the Indy Sneak and Show list with double Dig in the article in my excitement over seeing Bob take it down with the 4-of list).

Also:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14749 Only guy with Treasure Cruise takes first - again.

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14758 Only second this time admittedly.

Given how slow the format usually is to adopt new cards, it isn't surprising only a handful of players seem to actually be playing these cards this early on and often in numbers meant to hedge in case they aren't the real deal. Those that do seem to be doing so successfully from what limited information there is available on the tournaments that have taken place since the release, though.

Anyway, I'm done arguing for them, the adoption-process should be self-fueling at this point given the power level. If you insist on handicapping yourself, be my guest.

@Lem: To be fair, both of those decks run roughly the same amount of permanents that actually stay in play than pre-Cruise BUG Delver or UWR lists. And given the descriptions in the Cloudpost thread, Cruise seems to be awesome in that deck, which wouldn't surprise me in the least (though I'd have suspected Dig to be the card of choice there, maybe UU is a bigger issue than the slightly more powerful effect?). The huge difference between Cruise and Kozilek is that you need your engine fully going to use the Eldrazi. Cruise only asks you to have used a bunch of search effects thereby helping you establish the Cloudposts in the first place.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

"I told you so"s are in order when the card moves beyond a variant of a single deck. Yes, it won New Jersey, but that was the only showing of either card, and Indy was dominated by a full top 4 of Elves. Treasure Cruise and its cousin have failed to make an impact anywhere else and attempts have gathered largely "meh" reviews.

Aren't you trolling again?

Treasure Cruise won the main SCG event on the first weekend of its release that is all needed to know. The top players were at scg NJ, not Indiana.

Anything jellydonut claimed was wrong. TC won legacy and the standard winner had Steam Augury and Dig Through Time.

[iamajellydonut]

the standard winner had Steam Augury and Dig Through Time.

Neat.

Anyway, I don't troll. I'm a callous asshole. The prediction from the start on behalf of skeptics was that Treasure Cruise and its cousin would find a home as a one or two of in some deck like UWR or something or the other with UR Aggro being the only deck greedy enough to attempt the higher numbers. And, holy shit, guess what came true. All props to Bob Huang. It's a strong deck that got two solid additions and he's a great player and he showed up at the right time at the right place, but it is still just an expected variant of UR Delver. None of us were ever under the impression that Treasure Cruise was a worthless flop doomed to a fate similar to that of Unexpectedly Absent. Theory was that it was "a card" and evidence confirms that it is "a card". Who knows, maybe some guy will show up with four crammed into BUG in the next two weeks, but I'm not holding my breath.

[lyracian]

Also:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14749 Only guy with Treasure Cruise takes first - again.

Maybe you were only looking at Top 8? However 13th Place Patriot also had 3 Treasure Cruise.

Counter-Burn/Patriot seem a great shell for the cards. I am going to try out an old Landstill deck and see how replacing Standstill with Dig/Cruise works.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm a callus asshole.

Close! You mean 'callous asshole'. What you said is something entirely different.

[iamajellydonut]

Close! You mean 'callous asshole'. What you said is something entirely different.

Maybe I meant what I said and you reeeally don't want to see a selfie.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Maybe you were only looking at Top 8? However 13th Place Patriot also had 3 Treasure Cruise.

Counter-Burn/Patriot seem a great shell for the cards. I am going to try out an old Landstill deck and see how replacing Standstill with Dig/Cruise works.

Yep, only checked the top 8. My bad - and now I got to check that list as that's a list I've been considering, too. Thanks for double checking :D

[FoolofaTook]

"I told you so"s are in order when the card moves beyond a variant of a single deck. Yes, it won New Jersey, but that was the only showing of either card, and Indy was dominated by a full top 4 of Elves. Treasure Cruise and its cousin have failed to make an impact anywhere else and attempts have gathered largely "meh" reviews.

This is likely because all blue lists are trying to incorporate TC and in fact it should only be a 4-of in one list and 2-ofs in a few others. Yes, blue can totally screw itself by making bad card choices.

That top 4 that was all Elves?

That's what happens when the consistent blue lists all decide to play for a turn 3 or 4 windfall in cards. Game over by then.

[Griselpuff]

I think it's pretty clear you want to play 4 TC in every Delver deck once you sit down and actually test with it. It's funny how much shit people talk without testing. The disynergy with Goyf/DRS is rarely an issue because the three cards help you refill your GY. Where I'm more concerned is that you are forced to side out some TCs vs. GY hate.

As usual awesome work Carsten!

I'm very inclined to skip the whole TC arms race and just jam Storm or Sneak and Show instead. We'll see though.

[amalek0]

I think it's pretty clear you want to play 4 TC in every Delver deck once you sit down and actually test with it. It's funny how much shit people talk without testing. The disynergy with Goyf/DRS is rarely an issue because the three cards help you refill your GY. Where I'm more concerned is that you are forced to side out some TCs vs. GY hate.

As usual awesome work Carsten!

I'm very inclined to skip the whole TC arms race and just jam Storm or Sneak and Show instead. We'll see though.

I've lost to you at curio before; if you're going to be slinging ancestral recalls with your skill, I may just go back to mainboarding chalices in lands when I'm back in the NOVA area during breaks. Certainly the bog is going back in my mainboard.

[Ellomdian]

From the original thread...

"Surely an event that 'allowed' 2 Dredge Decks and a Reanimator list to make the T8 had sufficient incidental GY hate, and the absence of Elves or Infect doesn't indicate that people were loaded for bear against those strategies..."

Is Treasure Cruise good in decks willing to spend cards like singles in a cheap stripclub? Yes.

Is it Going to Redefine The Meta as We Know It? Well, I don't know why people started skimping on RiP and Relic as Thresh-Tempo hate in the first place...