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Thread: Ascendancy Combo

  1. #1
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    Ascendancy Combo

    Today, I joined the hype and built an Jetski Ascendancy deck after picking up a playset of Glittering Wish.

    Here's the list I run (copied from a 4-0 Modern DE):

    1 Breeding Pool
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 Temple Garden
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Birds of Paradise
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    4 Cerulean Wisps
    2 Crimson Wisps
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Glittering Wish
    2 Jeskai Ascendancy
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Serum Visions
    4 Sleight of Hand
    4 Treasure Cruise


    1 Jeskai Ascendancy
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Fiery Justice
    1 Flesh // Blood
    1 Guttural Response
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Scarscale Ritual
    4 Swan Song
    1 Wear // Tear

    I currently run City of Brass for budget reasons instead Mana Confluence for now. But aside from Twin comboes, that doesn't come up anyway.

    It isn't the easiest deck to play, but as far as Modern is concerned, it's downright broken. The first time I pulled off the combo was a Turn 2 kill.

    There's no way this deck is going to survive the next B&R announcement since it breaks their Turn-4-Rule really, really hard with consistent T3 kills.

  2. #2
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Out of curiosity, what do you think will get the ban? I doubt it's Jeskai Ascendancy because it's a new card and they'll have to admit a mistake.

    Looks like a really, really stupid deck though. In a good/broken way. I guess this solidifies my break from Modern for a while, though it was unrelated to things like this.

  3. #3
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Out of curiosity, what do you think will get the ban? I doubt it's Jeskai Ascendancy because it's a new card and they'll have to admit a mistake.

    Looks like a really, really stupid deck though. In a good/broken way. I guess this solidifies my break from Modern for a while, though it was unrelated to things like this.
    What else should they ban? It's the single card engine that makes and breaks the deck.

  4. #4

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    What else should they ban? It's the single card engine that makes and breaks the deck.
    Glittering Wish is a possibility. It serves as 4 extra copies of Jeskai Ascendancy and gives the deck increased strength towards hate by allowing you to fetch up the necessary answers. Banning that would allow the deck to remain, but be weaker, similar to the Seething Song ban.

    Though I do have my doubts that the deck needs or will receive a banning. So far, the results of it aren't that amazing, though to be fair it is early in its life.

  5. #5
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Eggs did well once. This is better. They banned Deathrite recently, Ascendancy is broken it should be banned. The deck is phenominal.
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  6. #6

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Eggs did well twice. It won PT RTR and GP San Diego.

    I think glitter storm is a little over hyped.

    I dont think it has that many good match ups outside of tron and affinity. Most of the other match ups are 50/50ish. There is lots of play against the abrupt decay decks. Pod has strong bullets in linvala and pontiff, and can even main deck canonist. Liliana is a beating since it kills caryatid or strips resources. A timely treasure cruise can negate the disruption, which is why it's not a complete dog vs BGx.

    And then the deck has a horrendous match up vs burn. Red eidolon is mostly unbeatable, and burn can kill all the non caryatid mana dorks. The UR delver match up is also abysmal, they have cheap threats, cheap disruption in removal and counter magic.

    The reason it'll get banned is if it eats up too much time, or it wins too much on turn 2-3. It doesn't have an 80% win rate vs the field.

    People will adapt and play storm hate in their board or switch up removal spells. Dark blast is a huge beating especially if the glitter storm player does not play crimson wisps.

  7. #7
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    That and treasure cruise is probably the most insane card in the deck
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  8. #8

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    I've only watched a couple vids, but if this combo is indeed as broken as it seems, I think they have to ban Jeskai Ascendancy, not Glittering Wish.

    It's the age old rule that WotC has (painfully) learned before; when faced with an engine problem, you ban the engine, not the fuel. Back in the day they kept banning the cards that you drew with Necro... until they figured out that you just ban Necro instead. They've stuck to that methodology, too.

    When Hypergenesis, and then Cloudpost, and then Second Sunrise started making way too many broken plays, they didn't ban fuel of Progenitus, Emrakul, and Pyrite Spellbomb, they banned the engines.

    Since Modern is out of season right now, they might let Ascendancy float until January, instead of pulling an emergency ban. Who knows, maybe there's enough Spell Pierces and Abrupt Decays and other stuff out there to keep it at bay... but it sure doesn't look like it, and even if there is, Ascendancy might put too much pressure on the format to let it breathe.

  9. #9

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by T-101 View Post
    When Hypergenesis, and then Cloudpost, and then Second Sunrise started making way too many broken plays, they didn't ban fuel of Progenitus, Emrakul, and Pyrite Spellbomb, they banned the engines.
    Second Sunrise was not banned for making "way too many broken plays." The deck was not overpowered nor broken, and in fact they never cited that as the banning rationale. It was banned because it took extremely long turns that made tournaments last hours longer than they would have otherwise. Power had nothing to do with it.

    Well, that's not quite true. Its power was a problem... but not in that it was overpowered. Its power was a problem in that it was good enough for a lot of people to play, causing the timing problem; one person playing Eggs won't slow down a tournament too much. 15 people playing it can. Think of it like High Tide. High Tide takes long turns, but few people actually play it, so it's not an issue. Eggs was being played by a lot of people.

    If Eggs could've won faster with no sacrifice in power, it would not have been banned. Now to be fair, this combo deck takes a while to win, so if it gains popularity that might be incentive for a banning, but from what I can tell it's faster than Eggs.

    By the way, the way people are screaming about this deck despite (so far) its lack of real results is rather amusing. At least wait until it actually starts to dominate the meta before complaining about meta dominance.

  10. #10

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    That's true; Second Sunrise was banned for time reasons rather than meta dominance. My mistake.

    Even so, Jeskai Ascendancy is the engine card here. So, IF there is a ban next time around, it'd be Ascendancy over Glittering Wish.

    The deck is brand new, and not everyone has adapted to it yet. As people learn the deck, it will become easier to fight.

    But as it stands, if your opponent plays a Birds of Paradise on Turn 1, and you don't have disruption... you could just be dead.

    I don't know if WotC will allow that to be the case in Modern.

  11. #11
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Would Chalice at one enough to beat this deck (in a blue deck)? I'm on Mono U Tron but I've never faced it.
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  12. #12

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    This deck isn't really my cup of tea, but I'm going to build it and see for myself. It just looks absurd, and the fact that I can use Birds of Paradise to actually kill opponents is too much to pass up.

    I would imagine that Chalice for 1 is pretty back breaking. You still get the loot and and untap effect from Ascendancy, but it would be pretty easy to run out of cards with a Chalice on 1. I'll try to post here over the next week or so with any findings.

  13. #13
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Until they find a Glitterinh Wish. Then you die immediately.
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  14. #14

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Why 2 instead of 3 Ascendancy main?

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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Daize View Post
    Why 2 instead of 3 Ascendancy main?
    This deck doesn't win on Turn 2 all the time, but when it does, it draws it's 3-of in the opening hand.

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  16. #16

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    The guy whose list was copied couldn't get 4 copies of Ascendancy before the event started.

  17. #17
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Out of curiosity, what do you think will get the ban? I doubt it's Jeskai Ascendancy because it's a new card and they'll have to admit a mistake.

    Looks like a really, really stupid deck though. In a good/broken way. I guess this solidifies my break from Modern for a while, though it was unrelated to things like this.
    you ban jeskai, theres no doubt about that. Wizards makes stupid mistakes all the time. their testing is crap.
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  18. #18

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    you ban jeskai, theres no doubt about that. Wizards makes stupid mistakes all the time. their testing is crap.
    They've been pretty good for quite a while. It seems to be about 1 card every 2 years if I recall correctly (Deathrite in Modern, before that was Mental Misstep, and before that Jace).

    Of course, there were some Modern bans of cards that were printed years ago, and the decision came down to ban them years after, once Modern has been developed, but I can't really fault them for printing cards that became too powerful for a format that didn't exist when the cards were printed.

    - - - - -

    Anywho, I suspect the problem here was that Jesaki Ascendancy was just not tested along side creatures that tap for mana. Maybe it didn't occur to anybody. Look at the other Ascendancy cards; they are flavorful, fun enchantments that just sort of gas-up the theme of their clan.

    Sultai gets a self-mill effect for delve and shenanigans.
    Mardu makes tokens, while encouraging attacking, which is what Mardu is all about.
    Abzan buffs it's guys, with +1/+1 counters, and has an "outlast" feel to it (you still have a board post-wrath).
    Temur gets something that works well with big guys.
    Jeskai gets something that helps the Spells + Guys plan.

    The dev teams are pretty small, and I could see 10 people over looking how a UWR card goes crazy when you combine it with green mana dorks + awful cantrips.

    Once cards hit the internet, you get millions of people pondering a card's potential, instead of ten, over worked developers who are thinking about hundreds of other cards all day.

  19. #19
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    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by T-101 View Post
    They've been pretty good for quite a while. It seems to be about 1 card every 2 years if I recall correctly (Deathrite in Modern, before that was Mental Misstep, and before that Jace).

    Of course, there were some Modern bans of cards that were printed years ago, and the decision came down to ban them years after, once Modern has been developed, but I can't really fault them for printing cards that became too powerful for a format that didn't exist when the cards were printed.

    - - - - -

    Anywho, I suspect the problem here was that Jesaki Ascendancy was just not tested along side creatures that tap for mana. Maybe it didn't occur to anybody. Look at the other Ascendancy cards; they are flavorful, fun enchantments that just sort of gas-up the theme of their clan.

    Sultai gets a self-mill effect for delve and shenanigans.
    Mardu makes tokens, while encouraging attacking, which is what Mardu is all about.
    Abzan buffs it's guys, with +1/+1 counters, and has an "outlast" feel to it (you still have a board post-wrath).
    Temur gets something that works well with big guys.
    Jeskai gets something that helps the Spells + Guys plan.

    The dev teams are pretty small, and I could see 10 people over looking how a UWR card goes crazy when you combine it with green mana dorks + awful cantrips.

    Once cards hit the internet, you get millions of people pondering a card's potential, instead of ten, over worked developers who are thinking about hundreds of other cards all day.
    Yeah, this seems totally fair. It's probably a lot like software testing; over time, people invariably end up using the Item(s) In Question the way they are "intended" to be used, instead of realizing their implications in the wild.

    It is, in fairness, a 4-color combo that relies on multiple cards and would have difficulty flying in formats where such a manabase is eaten alive by like, Ports and Wastes and Blood Moons and shit. My inexperience with Modern is pretty glaring when I ask this -- how does this deck deal in the face of nonbasic hate? Maybe a better question is, does nonbasic hate even show up in Modern to start with...

    EDIT -- For some reason, this decklist reminds me of the time I tried to make a deck that was basically Elves with To Arms! because after all, if Reset is good then To Arms! is Reset + a card in a mana-dork deck. I got nowhere, but I feel enriched and refreshed for having tried. I remind myself of Calvin Coolidge -- "The credit belongs to the man who is actually playtesting Arena," or something like that.
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  20. #20

    Re: Ascendancy Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It is, in fairness, a 4-color combo that relies on multiple cards and would have difficulty flying in formats where such a manabase is eaten alive by like, Ports and Wastes and Blood Moons and shit. My inexperience with Modern is pretty glaring when I ask this -- how does this deck deal in the face of nonbasic hate? Maybe a better question is, does nonbasic hate even show up in Modern to start with...
    The earliest non-basic hate you see is on T3 with a Blood Moon or Fulminator Mage. You can run Ghost Quarter but that doesn't really do a lot. Modern's lack of non-basic hate can be a problem, but this deck can easily solve it with the numerous mana dorks it is playing.

    I play Modern weekly and I haven;t seen this deck yet. I am hoping no one at the LGS makes it....

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