[Deck] U/G Infect

[datanaga]

For those who play white splash, in which matchups do you SB swords in?

[Jesture]

For those who play white splash, in which matchups do you SB swords in?

They come in against any creature deck, though I've recently left them out against Young Pyromancer decks and have opted to instead bring in Absolute Law. They're especially good against decks with a low threat count, like RUG delver, or decks that tend to snowball a creature count, like Goblins or Elves. I've also brought them in against ANT in the past as a way to deal with Xantid Swarm or potentially self-heal, but that's a pretty narrow corner case.

[poxy14]

DTB! good job fellow infected people! hope it stays here for long. but i always wanted this deck to stay under the radar...

11th yesterday, lost to mirror (who eventually made the top8) via UGInfect
3-2 after starting a blistering 3-0, crushed belcher, bgwrock, ub omnitell... lost game 1 vs uginfect and time ran out with him down to 1 infect, then lost my crucial game vs shardless bug who top decked a wasteland facing lethal next turn vs my inkmoth/pendelhaven : (

good run though, the deck is very explosive and very stress-free to pilot

[datanaga]

Hello all, I just won small LGS legacy tournament with 4:0 record and this decklist:

4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch

1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
1 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
2 Spell Pierce
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder

1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
9 fetchland
1 Pendelhaven

Sideboard:

1 Sylvan Library
1 Force of Will
1 Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction¨
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Dispel

My SB was a mess and sometimes I found myself completely lost when sideboarding, need some help what put in and take out.
I usually do not know what to cut.

Matchups were:

Reanimator (2:0) it was budget version with shocklands and without reanimate in deck only exhumes and animate dead, really easy matchup
UG 12 post - my friend scooped it to me in extended turns, but I would won it anyway (2:1)
UWR delver (2:0) intense match, he killed 6 of my creatures and resolved several digs in second game, I pushed some poison counters with tripple invigorate and finish game with corrupter, I was lucky to draw lot of creatures, after G1 I cut 2x berserk and become immense, 2x fow, because he was removal heavy with pyroblast and I did not want to walk into card disadvantage too much...
Infect (2:0) lost dice roll here, so tried control role, sb out both berserks and put in some answers like claim and grip and submerges, second game I won on non-infect damage, I had better SB prepared for mirror

I played Corrupter, because there were 3 chalice decks (loam, mud and affinity).

Are we able to create some useful manual how to SB in each matchup? What is your SB at the moment? If I own 1x spellskite and 2x flusterstorm I would probably play it in SB.

[Deckerator]

Can we add a sideboard strategy (in/out) to the primer against most of the field?

Gesendet von meinem SMART-E4 mit Tapatalk

[movingtonewao]

is the living wish plan not viable in the current meta? did a search on scg decklists and none of the results seem to be using it.

[Jesture]

is the living wish plan not viable in the current meta? did a search on scg decklists and none of the results seem to be using it.

Tapping out at sorcery speed isn't really something the deck can afford to do. That plus the Wish targets aren't particularly impactful means Living Wish packages are usually too slow and too weak to affect the game.

[Neffy]

Tapping out at sorcery speed isn't really something the deck can afford to do. That plus the Wish targets aren't particularly impactful means Living Wish packages are usually too slow and too weak to affect the game.

Agreed. CropRot is probably the best "wish"-option as it gets any land you need and an infect dude (inkmoth). And at instant speed and 1 mana.

[Jesture]

Zachary Koch and Tom Ross both onto Day 2 of SCG Washington. Curious to see both their decklists and how they fare in this meta, as Grixis/4color seem like tricky matchups.

[CML]

Even with the crap lists running 0 Libraries and Force of Will poison was one of the top-performing decks at Lille. Watching the Tom Ross vs. Brad videos I am more convinced than ever before the stock list is horrendous. Dig Through Time in particular is way worse than Sylvan Library, Wasteland makes no sense in a deck that's so mana-hungry, and the sideboard is a joke. I think I want two Hydroblasts in the current meta.

I am going to hallucinate my way to victory in November

[echofish]

Even with the crap lists running 0 Libraries and Force of Will poison was one of the top-performing decks at Lille. Watching the Tom Ross vs. Brad videos I am more convinced than ever before the stock list is horrendous. Dig Through Time in particular is way worse than Sylvan Library, Wasteland makes no sense in a deck that's so mana-hungry, and the sideboard is a joke. I think I want two Hydroblasts in the current meta.

I am going to hallucinate my way to victory in November

What is Hydroblasts for?

[poxy14]

im still not a fan of dtt in this deck...and im still going 0 wastelands on a major tourney 2 wks from now.. ug no w splash still..

hydroblasts are for resolved yp' magus moons..bloodmoons..roughs..rebs..pyroclasms.. i only have 1 in my sb though.

[Whitefaces]

I heard Lightning Bolt is played sometimes, too.

[lavafrogg]

I just got a smoking good deal on 2 berserk's so I think I will be adding infect to my list of decks. I have had all blue staples gathering dust for a few years and will be super happy to bring out the old Force of wills.

[dionykos]

Even with the crap lists running 0 Libraries and Force of Will poison was one of the top-performing decks at Lille. Watching the Tom Ross vs. Brad videos I am more convinced than ever before the stock list is horrendous. Dig Through Time in particular is way worse than Sylvan Library, Wasteland makes no sense in a deck that's so mana-hungry, and the sideboard is a joke.

I share the same feeling. I would also add: the lack of Ponders.

[echofish]

Even with the crap lists running 0 Libraries and Force of Will poison was one of the top-performing decks at Lille. Watching the Tom Ross vs. Brad videos I am more convinced than ever before the stock list is horrendous. Dig Through Time in particular is way worse than Sylvan Library, Wasteland makes no sense in a deck that's so mana-hungry, and the sideboard is a joke. I think I want two Hydroblasts in the current meta.

I am going to hallucinate my way to victory in November

Can you then share your non crap list with us?

[Svyelunite]

Hi there! My name is Zachary Koch. I have had a small amount of success recently running Legacy Infect and I'd like to address some of the questions/comments posted here recently.

Why the white splash and what for?: Short answer, Swords to Plowshares (removal in general is lacking in infect) and Rest in Peace (better GY hate than the Bujoka Bog/Karakas package). With the rise of Grixis/4c delver and Lands RiP is probably a much better sb card than Bog. Reanimator is also at a low, so instant speed yard hate isn't needed as much. StP is very useful against the Delver decks also because they usually don't have very many threats and typically can't afford to get into a counter war with you over protecting their creatures. The white splash is better (IMO) vs. a fair deck/lands heavy metagame.

Why Dig Through Time over Sylvan Library?: Dig has 2 major advantages as I see it. It's an instant, so you get the benefits immediately and can put pressure on your opponent on their end step. It's a blue card. The deck struggles to keep enough blue cards to consistently cast FoW without having to lose our cantrips or creatures and this helps, especially early in the game when you can't cast dig anyway. You have plenty of spare gy cards to eat (even with Become Immense in the list also) so casting it is trivial.

Why doesn't infect run 4 ponders?: Ponder is a fantastic card. I won't argue that more ponders makes the deck more consistent, but I will argue that in a lot of games we don't have a ton of spare blue mana each turn to be casting them (especially when you need to be animating Inkmoths also). Additionally, we are 50% aggro 50% combo and adding more ponders comes with a cost. For most people that cost will be combo pieces, or protection pieces. I don't think the loss is worth it. Finally, more cantrips makes us spend more time spinning our wheels, especially in the early game, when we typically have the best opportunity to win the game because our opponents' hands aren't perfect and they're constrained on mana. I could be very wrong on this debate, and perhaps there is a stronger way to build infect that utilizes more ponders, but FWIW my playtesting thus far has shown that I lose more games when I run 3-4 ponders than when I run 1-2.

Why isn't SB card XXX included?: Metagames, metagames, metagames. I think the best way to learn a deck is to copy a top performing lists main deck and jam a bunch of games with it against a competent opponent. Copying sideboards is usually pretty useless because they are always built with a specific expected metagame in mind. Ex: I played the white splash version at SCG Washington DC because I expected to see a lot of Grixis Delver and Lands. I played nature's claim as an extra hate card against miracles over my usual grafdigger's cage because I thought miracles would also be heavily represented at the top tables and decks like elves and reanimator would stay home. Turns out it was a great call (even though I eventually succumbed to Reanimator) because I played Miracles 3 times day 1...

Well, I've said enough for now. If anyone has any thoughts or counterpoints, please throw them out. I love this deck and discussing it.

Zach

[Jesture]

Hi there! My name is Zachary Koch. I have had a small amount of success recently running Legacy Infect and I'd like to address some of the questions/comments posted here recently.

Why the white splash and what for?: Short answer, Swords to Plowshares (removal in general is lacking in infect) and Rest in Peace (better GY hate than the Bujoka Bog/Karakas package). With the rise of Grixis/4c delver and Lands RiP is probably a much better sb card than Bog. Reanimator is also at a low, so instant speed yard hate isn't needed as much. StP is very useful against the Delver decks also because they usually don't have very many threats and typically can't afford to get into a counter war with you over protecting their creatures. The white splash is better (IMO) vs. a fair deck/lands heavy metagame.

Why Dig Through Time over Sylvan Library?: Dig has 2 major advantages as I see it. It's an instant, so you get the benefits immediately and can put pressure on your opponent on their end step. It's a blue card. The deck struggles to keep enough blue cards to consistently cast FoW without having to lose our cantrips or creatures and this helps, especially early in the game when you can't cast dig anyway. You have plenty of spare gy cards to eat (even with Become Immense in the list also) so casting it is trivial.

Why doesn't infect run 4 ponders?: Ponder is a fantastic card. I won't argue that more ponders makes the deck more consistent, but I will argue that in a lot of games we don't have a ton of spare blue mana each turn to be casting them (especially when you need to be animating Inkmoths also). Additionally, we are 50% aggro 50% combo and adding more ponders comes with a cost. For most people that cost will be combo pieces, or protection pieces. I don't think the loss is worth it. Finally, more cantrips makes us spend more time spinning our wheels, especially in the early game, when we typically have the best opportunity to win the game because our opponents' hands aren't perfect and they're constrained on mana. I could be very wrong on this debate, and perhaps there is a stronger way to build infect that utilizes more ponders, but FWIW my playtesting thus far has shown that I lose more games when I run 3-4 ponders than when I run 1-2.

Why isn't SB card XXX included?: Metagames, metagames, metagames. I think the best way to learn a deck is to copy a top performing lists main deck and jam a bunch of games with it against a competent opponent. Copying sideboards is usually pretty useless because they are always built with a specific expected metagame in mind. Ex: I played the white splash version at SCG Washington DC because I expected to see a lot of Grixis Delver and Lands. I played nature's claim as an extra hate card against miracles over my usual grafdigger's cage because I thought miracles would also be heavily represented at the top tables and decks like elves and reanimator would stay home. Turns out it was a great call (even though I eventually succumbed to Reanimator) because I played Miracles 3 times day 1...

Well, I've said enough for now. If anyone has any thoughts or counterpoints, please throw them out. I love this deck and discussing it.

Zach

Good to have you here. I'm curious to know how you feel about sideboarding plans.

In a general sense, what cards do you find yourself boarding out most often, and in what matchups? The list feels pretty tight, and threats/pump spells/protection are all pretty important in making the deck function. There are very often games where you're boarding in Savannah, 2x StP, 2x RiP just as a starting point. Adding in a few more cards, and you now need to board out upwards of 6-7 cards. Thoughts/suggestions?

More specifically, I've noticed a huge amount of variation between sideboards, showcased in the 4 Infect lists in SCG DC's top 32. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on a couple of cards:

Jace
Crop Rotation (second copy)
Absolute Law (or Hydroblast?)
Karakas
Teferi's Response

[Svyelunite]

Good to have you here. I'm curious to know how you feel about sideboarding plans.

In a general sense, what cards do you find yourself boarding out most often, and in what matchups? The list feels pretty tight, and threats/pump spells/protection are all pretty important in making the deck function. There are very often games where you're boarding in Savannah, 2x StP, 2x RiP just as a starting point. Adding in a few more cards, and you now need to board out upwards of 6-7 cards. Thoughts/suggestions?

More specifically, I've noticed a huge amount of variation between sideboards, showcased in the 4 Infect lists in SCG DC's top 32. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on a couple of cards:

Jace
Crop Rotation (second copy)
Absolute Law (or Hydroblast?)
Karakas
Teferi's Response

I'll start with the caveat that I do not claim to be the best or most experienced to answer this . Anyway, any time you are bringing in RiP the two Delve spells go out. You can't cast them with RiP on the table so its an easy 1 for 1 swap. Bringing in StP almost certainly means you're playing against a delver/creature-centric deck so my next cuts are usually a combination of FoW/Daze depending on what their gameplan is (ramp, mana denial) and whether you're on the play or draw. The Savannah replaces another land in most cases: Trop vs. Decks without Wasteland, usually replaces Wasteland against those with them. After those swaps it gets tricky. I tend to cut my Gitaxian Probes and Crop Rotation more often than most because I play a lot off of instinct and trying to be able to read my opponents actions for tells when they have or don't have it. Of all of my sideboarding techniques, this is probably the most risky, but it has served me well thus far so I'll probably keep doing it.

As for specific SB cards, I've never tried Jace, so I can't really comment. My gut says it's too slow and you can't protect it so it's probably not good. The second CR is usually attached to the land package of Wasteland/Bog/Karakas. If you run the package, run CRx2, otherwise it probably isn't needed. Absolute Law/Hydroblast is great if you expect a lot of Red-based removal, but I get scared and usually go with stuff like Dispel and Flusterstorm that is a little more universal. I don't feel like I lose to Young Pyromancer so much as I lose to a strong hand of removal and counterspells. If they draw all the gas, so be it. Teferi's Response is a pet card of mine. I play it because it is an absolute blow out when it happens and nobody ever plays around it. Do I think it's a great card? Not really, but in the right games it takes you from "even" to "can't lose" in 2 mana.

[echofish]

I'll start with the caveat that I do not claim to be the best or most experienced to answer this . Anyway, any time you are bringing in RiP the two Delve spells go out. You can't cast them with RiP on the table so its an easy 1 for 1 swap. Bringing in StP almost certainly means you're playing against a delver/creature-centric deck so my next cuts are usually a combination of FoW/Daze depending on what their gameplan is (ramp, mana denial) and whether you're on the play or draw. The Savannah replaces another land in most cases: Trop vs. Decks without Wasteland, usually replaces Wasteland against those with them. After those swaps it gets tricky. I tend to cut my Gitaxian Probes and Crop Rotation more often than most because I play a lot off of instinct and trying to be able to read my opponents actions for tells when they have or don't have it. Of all of my sideboarding techniques, this is probably the most risky, but it has served me well thus far so I'll probably keep doing it.

As for specific SB cards, I've never tried Jace, so I can't really comment. My gut says it's too slow and you can't protect it so it's probably not good. The second CR is usually attached to the land package of Wasteland/Bog/Karakas. If you run the package, run CRx2, otherwise it probably isn't needed. Absolute Law/Hydroblast is great if you expect a lot of Red-based removal, but I get scared and usually go with stuff like Dispel and Flusterstorm that is a little more universal. I don't feel like I lose to Young Pyromancer so much as I lose to a strong hand of removal and counterspells. If they draw all the gas, so be it. Teferi's Response is a pet card of mine. I play it because it is an absolute blow out when it happens and nobody ever plays around it. Do I think it's a great card? Not really, but in the right games it takes you from "even" to "can't lose" in 2 mana.

Yeah, we all saw that Teferi's Response blowout on cam and it was a delight :)