Did a quick 3-round local last night. I was running 2 Ponder, 1 Sylvan, 1 BI, 1 Might of Old Krosa, Stifle, 1 Pierce, 1 Fluster main.
First two rounds didn't yield much info as I drew extremely hot and turned 2 and 3'd both of my opponents. Although Might was great in game 2 against BR Reanimator. I used Daze to get his first reanimation spell and was sure he was going to fire off another one on his next turn, so having the extra spell to combo with Berserk early ended up getting me the win.
Round 3, I lost game 1 to Lands and ended up coming back in games 2/3 to steal the win. Absolute Law was a house and having access to RiP also felt great. With Lands and RUG both likely increasing in frequency, I'm thinking about a second Absolute Law, to get my sideboard something like:
Absolute Law x2
Vines of Vastwood
Fow
Flusterstorm
Spell Pierce
Pithing Needle x2
Krosan Grip
Dissenter's Deliverance
Swords to Plowshares x2
Surgical Extraction x2
Rest in Peace
Assuming we end up seeing lots of D&T, RUG, Lands, Reanimator, and Storm, I feel like this gives me outs to everything and all the cards are useful in multiple matchups. Thoughts?
Would have to see the maindeck to say for sure, but here's some initial sideboard thoughts until then:Originally Posted by qomori
-I'm not wild about the second Absolute Law, as the card kind of feels like it's not at it's best in our worst matchups nor is it flexible enough to be brought in regularly against the field. The two decks you're bringing this card in against (RUG and Lands) both have other axes to attack from that don't involve red spells picking off your creatures. I can definitely get behind the first copy, but the second seems superfluous and somewhat dangerous to draw. You could potentially still handle a flurry of burn spells without an Absolute Law, but I think you're as good as dead if you draw 2 copies against a deck that's Stifle/Wastelanding aggressively or just churning out a quick 20/20.
-Vines in the sideboard is interesting. I remember seeing this a couple of times in spot-removal heavy metas, but I almost feel as though Sylvan Safekeeper is doing the same things but in a better and more efficient way. Running both might be okay, but if you're not playing the Safekeeper in the main and are worried about spot removal I think he should take the Vines spot here. There are also more aggressive pump spells if you're concerned about comboing faster, so I don't think Vines comes in to speed you up.
-I'm a big fan of both Fluster and Pierce in this deck, but I don't think Pierce is a card that really belongs in the sideboard. Your sideboard cards should either be very general answer cards that come in against a lot of decks (something like Pithing Needle) or cards that function as silver bullets which are dead in most matchups but can be game-breaking in others (Rest in Peace.) It's kind of the opposite reason of why I disliked the second Absolute Law, Spell Pierce is a card that's probably going to do something in the majority of your matchups but it's rarely going to single-handedly win you a game where a more narrow and more powerful card maybe could have. Consider using a second Flusterstorm in the sideboard (great in the matchups you want it for) or moving a maindeck card to the sideboard to make room for Spell Pierce in the starting 60.
-2 Needles is great. I've personally moved to a 1/1 split with Null Rod, but I think you want at least 2 of these effects in your board at all times.
- If you're anticipating a lot of RUG and Lands, I'd move to a 2/1 split of Rest in Peace/Surgical. The former is great in those matchups, the latter is only coming in against Lands. Reconsider this if you're running into a lot of B/R Reanimator.
Went 3-1 last night with this list:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Invigorate
3 Daze
2 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
2 Vines of Vastwood
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Berserk
1 Become Immense
1 Crop Rotation
1 Stifle
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 green fetches
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
1 Pendelhaven
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Standstill
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Krosan Grip
1 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Island
Rd 1 beat Miracles 2-0
Rd 2 loss Sneak & Show 0-2
Rd 3 beat Burn 2-0
Rd 3 beat Miracles 2-0
Overall the deck feels really great. Didn't do the TNN/Jitte plan last night but another Infect player played some rough games vs. RUG and I think I'd like it there. Drew 6 cards off Standstills vs. Miracles which were clutch in winning through Counterbalance.
One play I am wondering about... Vs. S&S he was stuck on mana, at one point well after turn 2 using a land and petal to Pyroclasm my board of Glistener Elf and 2 Hierarchs. I could've forced, but felt like he was likelier to have force in the situation since he hadn't been drawing lands. Because I had a Blighted Agent, force and second blue card in my hand, I decided to let it resolve and fight over the next threat (or a Show and tell if he drew a sol land). I also had a Karakas in play so he was drawing to exactly Omniscience... which of course he did, with force backup and Emrakul in hand.
I'm trying not to be results-oriented... Was it right to let Pyroclasm resolve given I had a backup threat and disruption for his combo in play? Or should I have gone for the shortest path to victory (getting in with a 3/4 elf a couple more times)?
I've never played with or against either deck, so take this for what it is. I probably would have attempted to force the pyroclasm. This way you "force" the opponent to have it, and maybe he has to pitch an Omni or S&T that they are just waiting for that extra land for (which could buy you a little extra time to rebuild). Or maybe not. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Unrelated, but how the hell have you managed to dodge Sneak and Show for over a year?
main reason - I'm just not experienced in legacy.
secondary reason - It seems to be not at all supported in my area (1 LGS only, <10 people at events).
So, like I said, not terribly experienced in the matchup at all, but that is my general approach if I have incomplete information and a potential game making play is on the line. Force them to beat you.
That's a good point. However, it should be noted that he wasn't dead the next turn -- I had no pump spells in my hand. I suppose I could've played it to draw Become Immense and win though, I think that still was in.
The way he played the game led me to believe he had combo + protection in hand and was only missing mana, because he cantripped his first two turns without hitting land. He def had force as I forced his S&T and he forced back. It was only a couple turns later. I should probably have forced pyroclasm to stay ahead on tempo though.
Given that you didn't have lethal on the following turn, letting the Pyroclasm resolve is definitely the correct play here. What ronco talks about is putting them in a do or die position, where you're looking to untap and swing for lethal on the following turn and they're using a Pyroclasm in a last ditch effort to prevent you from executing the kill. But given the fact that you didn't have lethal and also had a backup threat in hand, it was right to set your clock back a turn in order to hold up Force of Will for the potential Show and Tell.
Another way to think about it is that there are two possibilities with the Pyroclasm. Either he wants to remove your threat, in which case you have a Blighted Agent to replace the Elf with next turn, or he wants to bait out a counter spell, which you should probably save for the Show and Tell because you have a replacement threat if you simply let the Pyroclasm resolve. It sucks to have taken the right line and still not won the game, but I don't think the game would have been any different if you had Forced the Pyroclasm, as he would have drawn into the combo a few turns later anyway and simply killed you without having to use his Force of Will.
How does everyone deal with Moon Stompy? I have had the worst time at my local store tying to deal with it. I have 3 people who play it there and over the past 2 months it has accounted for 40% of my losses. I have tried needles, null rod, dissenters deliverance, Krosan Grip, viridian corrupter. Recently considered a spicy Energy Flux in the board but any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. KEEP ON POISONING!
You seem like you just need more volume of sideboard slots dedicated, but for things you didn't mention:
1.Hydroblast is a versetile answer to a lot of their answers as well as some other problem match ups.
2. Play a second forest in the main because getting that green mana early or a threat with the ability to kill with invigorate is all you need a lot of the time.
To expand on that last part a bit, don't feel like you always have to counter their lock pieces if you have a threat down. Both invigorate and become immense don't care about chalice so force should be saved for their answers to buy time to kill them.
Oh yeah I forgot about hydroblast, I am running that in the board. I've been considering a second forest in the main for a while, but I think now is a good time for it. I defiantly get where you are coming from with that. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
It's a problematic matchup especially when they resolve any moon effect. But postboard you have lots of helpers. I play the Bant version. Just always be cautious leaving a fetch open to get your lone forest... croprotations are way out too. Hierarchs will help you cast anti-artifacts/enchantments. STPs can get rid of Magus. Add more hydroblasts effects and always be on guard dazing key spells. They can pay for it via SSGs. If I have fow and daze on hand.. I'll fow it.
Here's my consistent 3 hierarch build:
http://tcdecks.net/results.php?nombre=Earl%20De%20Leon
Noticed I didnt carry any 1cc artifact removal. Chalices are meant to wreck 1cc spells.
Poxy14 ALTERED CARDS:
https://www.facebook.com/earlgrant.deleon
Commission Status: FULL!!! Commission Line to open: 2019
You should try GSZ main, with viridian corruptor. It's been great for me! The card really shines vs moon stompy, allowing you to search for creatures through chalice.
Hey guys, how do you sideboard against Turbo Depths?
Put the poison crew back together for a local 4-rounder. Post-ban, this is what I want to be playing - powerful, proactive, and relatively under-the-radar. My sense is that people have forgotten how to play against the deck (if they ever knew how), which seemed borne out by my matches. Unfortunately, I had also forgotten how to play the deck. Whoops!
Coincidentally, my list is 72/75 the same as the one that took 5th at the Classic: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122543
My MD: +1 Daze, -1 Flusterstorm (I had Blossoming Defense over the 3rd Vines just to try it, but am switching back - stifling Jitte equips is more important than +2/+2)
My SB: +1 Dismember (not a fan), +1 Pithing Needle (great). -1 Cage, -1 Pierce. Also should go without saying but -2 Wooded Foothills (lol)
Rd 1 vs. BURN (2-1)
New legacy player at his first tournament (borrowing my burn deck, no less)! He made some avoidable mistakes but overall solid play (he won his next 3 matches and finished 1st on breakers). He got me g1 with removal into Eidolon (dazed) into another Eidolon. I had to cantrip to find another threat and by the time I had lethal, I couldn't cast enough pump to kill him and also survive the Eidolon triggers.
G2: I mulled to 5 for a hand of nexus + 3 fetch + BI. Drew an Invigorate and more lands to kill him on t4.
G3: I had 2x Elf with Pendelhaven which I never tapped (read him on Searing Blood). Went for it a turn too early with BI (only 4 cards to delve, so I had to tap Pendlehaven for mana, he responded with Blood - which I countered - but then he also had Fireblast). Post-Fireblast he had one land and never drew another, while my elf and blue cards closed the game. Afterwards, I gave him the trade secrets on how to beat Infect w/ Burn and talked through some different sideboard configurations.
SB: +1 Hydroblast, +1 FoW, +1 Flusterstorm. -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Wasteland, -1 Ponder
Rd 2 vs. MIRACLES (2-0)
G1: He was on 3 lands and cast a Search for Azcanta, leaving one open. I untapped my Blighted Agent and brainstormed into a hand of 3x Invigorate, Vines, Daze, land. 2 Invigorates was lethal, so I put back 1 Invigorate and land (I think this was wrong - I was hedging against STP, but he should have cast it during his turn if he had it). So I missed the kill when he had FoW for the 2nd Invigorate, but he didn't hit Terminus or removal and I killed him next turn anyway.
G2: Zero land in my first two hands, so I'm on another mull to 5. I forced an STP on my t2 Agent, then used Extraction to exile all of them, leaving me empty-handed. He'd boarded into a counterspell-heavy rather than removal-heavy configuration, so that pretty much won the game. He landed Back to Basics and Ethersworn Canonist and I sat there with a Nature's Claim in hand all game, but never needed to cast it. He countered all my pump spells, killed an Elf and a Nexus, attacked for some damage with Canonist and eventually Mentor, and died on Turn 12 after 10 swings with Agent.
SB: +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Surgical, +1 Nature's Claim. -2 Berserk, -1 Wasteland.
Rd 3 vs. DEATH AND TAXES (1-2)
G1: I opened on Hierarch, dazed a Thalia, then landed Sylvan Library followed by Blighted Agent. He had a second Thalia then SFM'd up a Jitte with 3 lands in play - I had Invigorate, Vines, and Blossoming Defense, but was 1 mana short of casting them all. I could have gone Vines w/ kicker and if it resolved, won w/ Invigorate, but if he'd responded w/ removal, Blossoming Defense would have left me short of lethal and dead to Jitte. Instead I led with Invigorate and got in for 6, holding up both Vines and Defense. In retrospect, I think I should've gone for it as he should have mainphased removal if he had it, and with only 3 land and Thalia, he couldn't kill Agent and land Jitte. But he missed his fourth land drop, so Vines countering his equip gave me the win.
G2: He curved Mom, Thalia, Recruiter, Prelate. I had multiple Elves and multiple Invigorates, but could never get an attacker through and did not find Berserk.
G3: He kept 7 while I mulled a double Inkmoth hand into a 0-lander into a 0-lander. Kept on 5 with Hierarch, Elf, Agent, Invigorate, Vines and never found the land. Maybe should have mulled to 4?
SB: +1 Dismember (didn't like this!), +1 Nature's Claim, +1 Dissenter's Deliverance, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Viridian Corrupter, +1 Crop Rotation. -1 Flusterstorm, -5 FoW/Daze (play/draw dependent).
Rd 4 vs. EXTRA-TURBO DEPTHS (2-1) feat. full sets of Spirit Guide, Lotus Petal, and Dark Ritual
G1: He opens on Dark Depths, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual. Not thinking through the line, I choose not to force it, and got wrecked by Thoughtseize taking Force into Vampire Hexmage.
G2: He flooded out like crazy while never finding Stage or Hexmage. He hardcast Massacre (!?) against my Hierarch+Agent, but it kills his Hexmage too and my backup Elf gets there.
G3: I had all the interaction this game - Crop Rotation, Submerge, multiple counters, but took a while to find a threat. Had to burn Crop Rotation for Pendlehaven to keep my Elf attacking through Hexmages and hardcast Spirit Guides, but eventually got there while preventing him from making a 20/20
SB: +1 Karakas, +1 Crop Rotation, +2 Submerge, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Flusterstorm. -3 Vines (should leave in some for Abrupt Decay?), -1 Sylvan Library (prob a mistake?), -2 Daze/FoW.
Still not sure about the right configuration here.
Deck felt great and it was awesome to be casting Glistener Elves on t1 without having to worry about attacking through everyone's favorite planewalker that for some reason they printed as a 1/2. Sneak and Show and Grixis are probably still hard, but the white decks feel like real good matchups. I'll run something else instead of Dismember (either Shaper's Sanctuary, Gut Shot, blue blast, or another piece of gravehate), or go back to 3 Ponder for the fun-of Stifle, but mostly was happy with the list. My play was definitely rusty - I don't think I played a single round without making at least one potentially match-losing mistake, but the deck's so good it didn't matter, shhhhhhh!
I played infect at the team SCG in Philly and finished 9-2. The tourney report is the beginning part of this podcast
https://soundcloud.com/the-dead-format/episode-4
Went 3-1 last night with this list:
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Brainstorm
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Berserk
3 Ponder
3 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Become Immense
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
SB:
1 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hydroblast
1 Karakas
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
Round 1: Won 2-1 vs u/b mill (All creatures got milled away and faced tons of removal game 1)
Round 2: Lost 1-2 vs b/g rock
Round 3: Won 2-0 vs mono red sneak attack
Round 4: Won 2-1 vs bizarro stompy
Overall the deck felt really good, especially against the combo matchups. Perhaps it's because I didn't play any tier 1 decks, but infect seems like it's in a better spot now than when deathrite shaman and gitaxian probe were legal. Definitely need to play more to see for certain.
Channel Fireball video series on infect today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPi_...ature=youtu.be
The Gooch!
Questionable lines, questionable sideboarding, glad he didn't do well with the deck or more people might pick it up, haha. I'm still getting good wins with it.
Not a big fan of his videos, more like an introduction to decks.
I can, but I also have a bad memory. So this Merchant Scroll comparison of mine does not work.
According to my initial thought, people don't even bother to try Spellseeker as it does nothing this deck wants to do.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
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