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Thread: [Deck] U/G Infect

  1. #1601

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Havrekjex View Post
    I still think Infect seems good
    Infect is good but struggled against eavy control deck, or créature control deck, and that's decks to beat in this meta (grixis delver, bug control etc)

  2. #1602

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Hi guys,

    Heads up: wall of text incoming. Skip to tournament 2 for the most interesting part (with video footage links)
    It's been a while since I've posted something and I've finally found time to write reports of my last 2 tournaments, both going top8.

    Tournament 1: 46 players, 3/4 place

    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17411&d=307818&f=LE

    This report will be brief, it's been too long ago to remember all matches correctly, but 'll try.

    R1: 1-2 loss vs UR delver
    R2: 2-1 win vs maverick
    R3: 2-1 win vs lands
    R4: 2-0 win vs miracles
    R5: 2-0 win vs UW control
    R6: ID for top 8 (8th place)
    QF: 2-0 win vs UB delver
    SF: 2-0 loss vs enchantress

    Thoughts on the tournament: where have all the combo players gone? Infect has such a difficult spot in the meta right now. Funny that I have to lose to enchantress then, since that's generally a good matchup. Both my hands were slow though, which gives enchantress the time it needs.

    Now onto the more interesting report! When writing this, no results have been posted on mtgtop8 yet.

    Tournament 2: 96 players (Dutch open series), 2nd place

    This report is interesting for me because I have been filmed on the feature match 5 times. I almost felt bad for the people watching. I will report the matches not on camera, but for the games that were captured I will simply post the link with my thoughts and responses to some of the (twitch) questions and/or remarks during the game.

    R1: 2-1 vs grixis delver:
    A difficult matchup to start with! G1 was an extremely long game, around 30 minutes. I win die roll and see a hand on turn 2 with FOW, brainstorm, ponder, fatal push, bolt and 2x daze. Damn, good hand. My game plan now consists out of playing around the dazes and playing some elves to get rid of his removal spells. I have a blighted agent from my opening hand, that's the one I want to resolve at the right time. Game comes down to me having 1 life and playing the agent with him holding only his 2 dazes in hand. I untap with the agent and invig+berserk for the win. G2 he has an early pyromancer and TNN follow-up. I die pretty quick. G3 I see his hand with 2x daze and a FOW with some other irrelevant spells. I bait out his FOW with my green sun's zenith for x=1, following up with my agent the next turn. He gets pumped to death next turn.

    R2: 2-1 vs dragon stompy:
    I win the die roll, thank God for that. G1 I start of with fetch for tropical island + noble. He follow up with blood moon. Thank you noble, I love you <3. I simple cast a creature every turn (elf or noble) and run him over. G2 he resolves blood moon on turn 1, I cry. G3 I fetch for noble. He plays trinisphere which I daze. Next turn I cast an elf and replay land. He plays an ensnaring bridge, which I FOW. GG.

    R3:2-0 vs lands:
    G1 I play an elf, he tries to punish it. I daze and kill him on T2. G2 he gets an early maze, but I have a vines, so I can pump through it.

    R4: 2-1 vs turbo depths
    https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200654698
    Game starts at 03:47:27
    Best moment of the game: commentators saying 'this is going to be a fast one'.
    G1: nothing interesting to add
    G2: nothing interesting to add
    G3: I think my opponent should have destroyed my karakas, that would have sucked. Also worth noting is that I decided to board out my dryad arbor in the matchup. Not all decks play sylvan safekeeper and if they don't it really is a useless card. You will never block that 20/20 flying with it. I didn't see it G1/2 so I thought he didn't play any. Maybe I'll leave it in next time though, just to be sure.

    R5: 2-1 vs BUG delver
    G1: I can an early elf which he can't block and after pitching in for 1 a few times, become immense saves the day.
    G2: he pretty much wastes and removes everything I have
    G3: Sylvan safekeeper + inkmoth nexus online is good. IT IS GOOD. Also, everyone underestimates it. I just attack with it every turn and let him initiate so I can respond and thus winning the interactions.

    R6: 2-1 vs BUG delver
    https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200654698
    Game starts at 05:52:46
    Best moment of the game: Me winning 5 times, not being able to draw (me sad) and winning the game getting first place in top 8 (me happy)
    G1: I want to comment on me playing a second glistener elf, even though I already have one in play. This is the right thing to do and here's why: BUG delver usually has no toxic deluge in the main board and even if they do, it's a one-off. What they do play a lot of is removal and usually discard (or both with lili). The best strategy to play against BUG delver is going wide and getting as much threats on the table as you possibly can. Don't want to get that lone elf killed or hymned. The odds of this happening are far, far greater than getting deluged. So yes, I still believe this was the correct play. Watching the game from above though, knowing my opponent has deluge, I can understand why people think I was overextending. Second note, at the end of the game I had to crop rotate for dryad arbor to block tarmogoyf since I would have been dead otherwise with the deathrite activation.
    G2: what did I say about sylvan safekeeper + inkmoth nexus again?
    G3: sylvan safekeeper <3

    R7: ID

    QF: 2-0 vs elves
    https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
    Game starts at 00:32:41
    Best moment of the game: commentators having to read my commander sideboard over and over again
    G1: nothing interesting to add
    G2: fetching for the dryad arbor and blocking heritage druid was so important there. If he doesn't bounce then I kill his mana dork. I'll take that trade any day! If he does bounce, I at least slow him down which is also excellent vs elves. Remember, this matchup is a race (even thought it was a slow race this game). I kept a very disruptive hand, but had no infecter in my opening hand. As the commentators noted, I kept my probe for my FOW. I don't need to know what's in his hand as it would not chance my game plan whatsoever. Keep the forces for the finishers because the elves can't race infect.

    SF: 2-0 vs punishing abzan
    https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
    Game starts at 01:02:47
    Best moment of the game: I mulligan to 7 and immediately know I ****** up. This was not on camera, but now my opponent can choose one card from my hand and I have to shuffle this in my deck. He basically gets a thoughtseize before the game. FML. I keep anyway, let's roll.
    G1: nothing interesting to add
    G2: sylvan library <3

    F: 0-2 vs mono red prison
    https://go.twitch.tv/videos/200740180
    Game starts at 01:49:00
    Best moment of the game: ponder on end step? Damn, I have been playing this game wrong for a long time!
    G1: to clear this out, no I did not know against what I was playing. I should have looked around yes. Only problem was I literally had to play my last 4 matches at the feature table. This means I could never see any other game. I didn't know what my opponents were playing in the QF and SF neither by the way. Yes, maybe I should have asked around, but I didn't think of it then. Guess that's my bad. Had I know I was playing vs mono red prison, I would not have played nexus T2 and maybe the could would have gone differently. In all honestly though, his hand was pretty bonkers so I don't know if I could battle though that.
    G2: I have to FOW that chalice, which sucks. I hoped he would go for any red spell whatsoever so I could hydroblast. Chalice was the only thing I didn't want to see. After my probe, I see another bonkers hand and I know this is going to be tough. Important part of the game then is my ponder. You see me thinking about it for quite a long time and I was considering shuffling or not. It may seem pretty easy, but here's my though: I was really afraid of blood moon. If that resolves, I lose. I know I need a pump, but if I get 1 pump and he follows up with blood moon, I lose. I also know his entire hand at that point and I know that with the daze, I can counter anything in his hand, unless he draws a land. So I have to choose between a random card and random follow ups, or trying to play the best I can with the cards I have seen. I choose the latter. Unfortunately, my opponent draws a land and I get punished for the decision. Being able to force the blood moon on the next turn is bittersweet since that was exactly what I was afraid was going to happen, but the game is over. In hindsight, I guess I should have shuffled. But it really wasn't an easy decision sitting on my spot.

    Final thoughts
    Infect is still a good deck and so much fun to play, but it is not in a good spot in the current meta. I'm pretty happy with my list now. I played the exact same list in both tournaments and it's been working pretty well for me. What do you guys think? Let me know if you have any questions and/or remarks. I'm always happy to learn from and /or give advice to you guys.

    Keep on poisoning!!
    Last edited by Fenruscloud; 11-14-2017 at 11:09 AM.

  3. #1603

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenruscloud View Post
    Hi guys,
    ...

    Keep on poisoning!!
    Might you share your list? :D

  4. #1604

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Woops, forgot to add it in my post. I've added it in my post now but here it is again: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17411&d=307818&f=LE
    I used this exact same list in both tournaments.

  5. #1605

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenruscloud View Post
    Woops, forgot to add it in my post. I've added it in my post now but here it is again: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17411&d=307818&f=LE
    I used this exact same list in both tournaments.
    Thanks, it's quite similar to mine. I've seen you've changed 1pierce x 1flst (regular list) to gain a backup place and I think it's great.
    But I'm still not confortable with the one copy sb that everybody uses :D (wearing just 5 cantrips+gp)

  6. #1606

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenruscloud View Post
    Keep on poisoning!!
    Hi! May I ask how did you sideboard against Grixis Delver, Mono Red Prison/Dragon Stompy and BUG Delver? Even approximates. I'm kind of struggling against the first two so any advice would be appreciated!

    How useful did you find playing Spellskite along with Sylvan Safekeeper? Did you side in both against Grixis?

  7. #1607

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    I've been really happy with the extra flusterstorm in the sb. Mainly because it's not only good against combo decks like other counter cards, but also because it's very good vs fair decks carrying loads of removal. The meta right now is all about cheap removal like bolts, pushes and swords and in these matches flusterstorm really shines. We usually up the storm count for free ourselves with our pump spells (invigorate <3), so the flusterstorm basically gets uncounterable.

    That's my experience at least. You should try it once and let me know what you think

  8. #1608

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Plaek View Post
    Hi! May I ask how did you sideboard against Grixis Delver, Mono Red Prison/Dragon Stompy and BUG Delver? Even approximates. I'm kind of struggling against the first two so any advice would be appreciated!

    How useful did you find playing Spellskite along with Sylvan Safekeeper? Did you side in both against Grixis?
    An excellent question! In my experience, delver games are all about trying to keep 1 infect guy alive, preferably blighted agent. The exact SB changes depend on each matchup, but I will always bring in a crop rotation, spellskite, sylvan safekeeper and flusterstorm. The crop rotation is REALLY GOOD, don't underestimate it. One of the best plays you can do with it is crop rotating in response to a wasteland, killing them on your turn. skite and safekeeper are there to protect your guys and flusterstorm is very flexible card. An easy first out is always viridian corrupter vs decks that don't really use artifacts too much. After this, I trim counters vs delver decks (not all of them). It's really all about getting value with your cards and countering their stuff is just much less interesting than protecting your guys with a recurring effect like safekeeper or skite. It's basically free, so you get a 1 for 0. I'll take that trade any day! Also, the combination of spellskite + sylvan safekeeper is BROKEN AS BANANAS! I once had a game where a player had a jitte with 12 counters on it and I managed to resolve them both. After this all my creatures were basically unkillable.

    The sideboard vs mono red prison/stompy is pretty meh. It's a very bad matchup in general. I always board in crop, sylvan library, dissenter's deliverance, nature's claim, pithing needle and hydroblast. Depending on the list I maybe add a FOW or creature protection. The problem vs these decks is that you kinda need a very fast hand, so you want to mull aggressively, but you can't do that since every single spell they play needs an answer. I never go below 6 in these matchups unless I really have to.

  9. #1609
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    1st Place with Bant Infect. Year-End Tournament Legacy Majors. Took home an Underground Sea!

    Decklist: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17753&f=LE

    Adjustments: Noticed the field was chalice heavy (24 chalices that day!), I inserted in Dissenter's Deliverance replacing my 3rd Surgical.

    MVP of the Game: 2 Pithing Needles. Clutch in the FINALS vs BUGDelver after losing game 1.

    Game 2: I had my opponent down to 1, but he was able draw a creature and started toasting my crits with an equipped jitte. My only out was my last remaining inky with his jitte on 2 counters, no wasteland at sight... both hands empty. I draw PNeedle via sylvan FTW!

    Game 3: My opponent mulled to 5 and cast the usual DRS turn 1... I have needle again in my opening... and without any hesitation I locked his DRS. He was able still to build enough mana and all I have are cantrips and pumps, very slow hand without a poison conduit : (. Mid game I was able to cast a Blighted and I can go for lethal next turn. On my turn I attacked an exalted BA, invi resolves... I fired another one for lethal, he ADecayed... I Vined.. BOOM! What he have on hand was another copy of ADecay which he cant cast anymore. Amazing finish!
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  10. #1610

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Hello again guys,

    Got another top8, this time ending 3/4th place: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17773&f=LE
    Funny tournament since a friend of mine, also on infect, made it to top8 as well.
    He finally included Sylvan Safekeeper in his deck for the first time after I told him every single tournament that it's great.
    That can't be a coincidence right?

    Anyway! On to the report!
    I made fewer notes then usual, I kinda forgot and only realised it when I was already in game 5.

    R1: 0-2 loss vs BUG
    As ever so often, I lose the first round. I swear guys, I'm not doing this on purpose. I really do try to win all my games!
    My deck really wasn't quite ready. G1 I have no infect creatures in my opening hand, but I do have BS + ponder. Both find no creatures and I lose doing nothing. G2 I mull to 6 and keep a rather weak hand, again with no infect creatures. I try to do something but lose. Pretty bad start.

    R2: 2-1 win vs grixis control
    I lose G1 hard, he has pretty much everything he needs. G2 I probe at the right time so I know the coast is clear. G3 I have Sylvan Safekeeper, winning me the game. The card is insane, play it!

    R3: 2-0 win vs infect
    The mirror, yay! I don't really like this matchup. Whoever finds a blighted agent first pretty much wins. I find him first in both G1 and G2, so I win.

    R4: 2-1 win vs DnT
    G1 he gets jitte online, I zenith for my main board corruptor and win. G2 he has all the lock pieces and I can't play magic. G3 I find an early sylvan library, which wins me the game.

    R5: 2-0 win vs enchantress (kinda)
    The game was on camera, it starts around 2.00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6gNXm1SoWM&t=355s
    You can see I mull aggressively. Don't underestimate enchantress, it's pretty good. However, if we have an explosive start we win this match fairly easy, so I like to mull for a good start. I guess the video speaks for itself.

    R6: 2-1 win vs miracles
    Games vs miracles are always intense, and this one was no different. G1 lasted for about 30 minutes. I squeezed through some infect damage one by one, meanwhile losing a bunch of creatures to plow and terminus. In the end, my opponent is at 8 infect and 6 life (dryad arbor ftw), but he stabilizes with a Jace and I lose. G2 I'm too fast for him to stabilize and G3 I surgical his swords in turn 2, pitching 2 more from his hand, winning me the game.

    R7: ID into top8

    QF: 2-0 win vs eldrazi
    G1 my opponent mills to 5 and I annihilate him with the lack of cards. G2 I keep a very good hand with invigorate + berserk, hoping my opponent has no chalice on turn 1. He doesn't, so my turn 1 elf gets the job done pretty quickly.

    SF: 0-2 loss vs Bant stoneblade
    Well this is one of these matches I just couldn't win. My opponent pretty much has everything he needs both games, drawing all answers to my threats, meanwhile having jitte online both games. I try my best, but lose anyway.

  11. #1611
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Hi, fellow Infect players. New to the source here. Thank you everyone for the tips and updates on this thread.
    You've all helped me become a better Infecter. I jumped into Legacy about a year ago, couple months before GP Vegas (where I got rekt) and have been in love with the format. I look forward to sharing all I've learned and am to learn with you all. Let's get started!



    Team Constructed
    R1 vs Grixis Delver 0-2
    G1 Forgot about Stifle... I lost a land as he responded to me fetching. I kept a Blighted Agent, Inky, Brainstorm, fetch hand... got blown out. Early Delver blind flip sealed the deal quick
    G2 Had to mull and he T1 Delver, eventually 2 Delvers and had all the answers



    R2 vs Turbo Depths 2-0
    G1 Opponent mulls to 5 :/
    I think he opened with a Fetch pass into T2 Sylvan Safekeeper after fetching for Bayou then Swamp.
    I just remember Wastelanding his Bayou and Spell Piercing a Crop Rotation and it was enough to get me there I mean he did mull to 5. Oh the game went long enough for all my lands to be out except for the forest I sac'd to CropRo, funny thing happened the turn before opponent died. He drew Bojuka Bog and exiled my grave, passed the turn and sure enough my draw was BImmense ... killed him coz I had all 4 trops out an Inky and a Fetch I used to put in the grave.

    G2 on draw
    My opening hand was:
    Elf, Noble, Berserk, Invigorate, Trop, Inkmoth, Probe... 😸
    His T1 was land, Safekeeper again..
    Draw.. It's a Blighted Agent. I Probe get an Inkmoth... see no removal or any disruption but he has a T3 Marit Lage... So.. I saw no point in trying to play a long game, plus I'm already 2 cards deeper in the deck so I decided and hope I got the 2nd green source for the Berserk Combo to go through the Safekeeper with Exalted and I got there sure enough. 🌴
    Though I would have been fine if I did play it a bit safer. Probe was the MVP that led to my line of choice.
    -3 FoW -3 Daze -1 Flusterstorm
    +2 Needle +1 Karakas +1 Blossoming Defense +2 Submerge +2 Naturalize

    Round 3
    Vs Death and Taxes 2-0
    G1
    Opponent is on the draw and had to Mulligan to 4, good luck! He had T1 Mom into T2 Thalia great mull to 4 but it wasn't enough as I had the Berserk Invigorate and Noble to push through 11 Infect after he blocked with Thalia
    G2 he had a good hand but his mana base was 2 Cavern of Souls ... ... it was slightly grindier and he got an early Thalia out on T2 which he used a Wasteland to cast so I waste his Wasteland lol and play a Noble
    Ultimately
    2 Nobles, Inky, Invigorate into BImmense got me there after he chose to tap out for a 3 mana Jitte due to Thalia being out
    -3 FoW -1 Spell Pierce
    -2 Daze
    (An argument can be made to sb in Karakas just for Thalia but eh..)
    +2 Naturalize
    +1 Blossoming Defense
    +1 Viridian Corrupter
    +2 Pithing Needle

    Round 4 vs 4c Deathblade 2-1
    This match up is okay, better than Grixis Delver match up. It could be fun.
    Game 1
    I win the die roll after my opponent playfully brags about always getting high rolls and winning them the whole day.
    T1 Elf he responds with FoW pitching True Name, I like.
    I out grind him and win with extra protection and counters to spare. I don't think he needed to Force my Elf on his Turn 0 but I dunno
    Game 2
    He wins after he blows me out with a Double Daze... Eh, it happens.. XD
    So lesson learned, before fighting on the stack before sure to fetch before doing so, if Daze is still relevant
    Game 3
    My opening hand was Inky, Inky, Fluster, Fluster, Trop, Brainstorm, Elf, YOLO
    He kept a hella reactive hand
    T1 Trop into Elf..
    He Forces my Elf again (fine)
    Then on his turn Thoughtseizes me taking the Brainstorm... then Surgically extracts Glistener Elf.. I was confused....
    I proceed to draw Gas in the form of Blighted Agent and I start chipping in with him and Inky. 2 poison. His T3 he plays a land and passes leaving up Clique for after my draw.
    I draw and surely enough he runs VClique out targeting me.. in response, I cast the Invigorate that I just drew for the turn on Blighted Agent. He see's my hand and is disappointed as the only new card was the Wooded Foothills (Fluster x2) I drew on my third turn.
    I play my fetch and get a trop animate both Inkys and swing out, he blocks an Inky of course but takes 6 poison. 8 poison in total. He finds an STP for my Blighted Agent and runs out a DRS..
    I draw a Pithing Needle but don't even bother to play it as the Deathrite was irrelevant, he couldn't find an answer for Inkmoth and my Flusterstorms were just waiting for anything relevant the whole time. Winning
    (I should've ran the Needle out and called Wasteland now that I think about it, but I had drawn a Vines and he was top decking so I guess it didn't matter)

    +1 Flusterstorm
    +1 Blossoming Defense
    +1 Viridian Corrupter
    +2 Pithing Needle
    +2 Submerge

    -1 Wasteland
    -4 FoW
    -1 CropRo
    -1 Spell Pierce


    Top4 Semifinals
    Vs the same Grixis Delver 2-0 Same guy I played in R1
    G1
    Wastelands wrecked me early in the game.. and when I got a Noble out to support my Inkmoth to try for action he had the Lightning Bolt for it.. it got to a point where I had no green source to play
    to cast my pump spells and he had a Gurmag and DRS out.. I just had to go for it after I drew my fetch , got a Forest and attacked into a Gurmag Angler and DRS with my baby Elf no berserk in hand.... ...opponent didn't block and he was already at 1 poison
    Invigorate, he casts Bolt in response, and I Invigorate and got there with a Vines ready
    G2 he kept a Wasteland heavy hand and destroyed 3/4 trops.. all I had to do was draw a Fetchland coz I had an Agent out and he tapped out to play his creatures, and I did. He left a Volcanic up with 3 cards in hand. But I figured if he had nothing since didn't have a better play. I went for it and got there with Invigorate + BI.

    -2Daze
    -1 Berserk
    -1 Become Immense
    -1 FoW
    +1 Flusterstorm
    +1 Hydroblast
    +2 Pithing Needle
    +1 Blossoming Defense

    My teammates unfortunately lost so we couldn't progress.. But overall I feel like I've improved at Sideboarding, trying not to over board.


    My list that I'm currently using was inspired by Poxy14's Miracles Drop Off list. For this tourney I ran one with no white splash as I expected 4c decks.

    3 Noble Hierarch
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Blighted Agent

    4 Inkmoth
    4 Tropical Island
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    1 Forest
    1 Pendelhaven
    1 Wasteland

    2 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Ponder

    2 Become Immense
    2 Crop Rotation
    4 Invigorate
    2 Berserk
    2 Vines of Vastwood
    1 Blossoming Defense
    4 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Sylvan Library

    Sideboard:
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Naturalize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Submerge
    1 Viridian Corrupter

  12. #1612
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthGawjus View Post
    My list that I'm currently using was inspired by Poxy14's Miracles Drop Off list.

    3 Noble Hierarch
    2 Become Immense
    2 Crop Rotation
    1 Sylvan Library
    Glad to hear this odd list is doin good for you too! Leaving you more room for more helpers : ). Goodluck!
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  13. #1613
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Question to my fellow infect players. If this deck isn't positioned so well in the current meta due to creature removal threats, that are your thoughts on running 2x copies of pattern of rebirth. We chuck it on one of our guys, if it gets killed we fetch a progenitus or emrakul in response.

  14. #1614
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    Question to my fellow infect players. If this deck isn't positioned so well in the current meta due to creature removal threats, that are your thoughts on running 2x copies of pattern of rebirth. We chuck it on one of our guys, if it gets killed we fetch a progenitus or emrakul in response.
    Your threats get killed three turns before you have mana to cast this or in response to you casting it. There's literally a shitload of cards to use before Pattern even becomes a consideration. You can start with Blossoming Defense.
    Some of my friends sell records,
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  15. #1615

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Infect took first at Legacy in Luzern against a field of Swords to Plowshares.

    http://blog.gameplace.ch/legacy-17-dezember/

    I'm starting to think you guys are just lying to us about how poorly infect is positioned so you can keep flying under the radar. This deck is great.
    Riding the Spiral

  16. #1616
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire View Post
    Question to my fellow infect players. If this deck isn't positioned so well in the current meta due to creature removal threats, that are your thoughts on running 2x copies of pattern of rebirth. We chuck it on one of our guys, if it gets killed we fetch a progenitus or emrakul in response.
    1. If removal is the largest problem this deck has, there's no reason it should want to play a four mana aura. This is just committing more mana than our pump spells cost while still opening ourselves to getting 2 for 1'd.
    2. Pattern of Rebirth does not trigger off of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, or Terminus
    3. Playing an Emrakul/Progenitus in the deck creates dead draws, as there's no way to hard cast them

    I feel like you haven't play tested this at all. If you can garner some results with it I'd be happy to take another look at Pattern of Rebirth, but until then it's probably best to take it for a spin yourself before presenting it to the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by FavoredRevenant View Post
    Infect took first at Legacy in Luzern against a field of Swords to Plowshares.

    http://blog.gameplace.ch/legacy-17-dezember/

    I'm starting to think you guys are just lying to us about how poorly infect is positioned so you can keep flying under the radar. This deck is great.
    Unfortunately, Swords to Plowshares is only a small fraction of what we have to worry about. Kudos to Fabian Salzmann for navigating his way to a first place finish, but one data point still doesn't change our poor matchups against Grixis Delver and Czech Pile, two of the most prevalent decks in the format. If U/W based control decks begin making their way back into the meta, we might be able to restore our foothold in the legacy metagame. As it is however, the combination of blue permission, black discard, and red/black removal from top tier decks is way too much for Infect to consistently handle.

  17. #1617

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post

    Unfortunately, Swords to Plowshares is only a small fraction of what we have to worry about. Kudos to Fabian Salzmann for navigating his way to a first place finish, but one data point still doesn't change our poor matchups against Grixis Delver and Czech Pile, two of the most prevalent decks in the format. If U/W based control decks begin making their way back into the meta, we might be able to restore our foothold in the legacy metagame. As it is however, the combination of blue permission, black discard, and red/black removal from top tier decks is way too much for Infect to consistently handle.
    I agree with this to an extent, however I had some success in the current meta when I designed my list to beat Czech and think the deck is more of a force to be reckoned with than current results/opinions may suggest. As a late tourney report, I won a Tabernacle at a EW trial (56 players I think?) with the following list:

    Non-land Creatures:
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Blighted Agent

    Spells:
    4 Invigorate
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Berserk
    3 Vines of Vastwood
    3 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Stifle
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Become Immense

    Lands:
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    1 Pendelhaven
    1 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    2 Blossoming Defense
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Karakas
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Divert
    1 Viridian Corrupter
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 Force of Will
    1 Yavimaya Hollows


    The idea was to maximize on answers to Hymn and try to have those answers double on early turns spot removal, while respecting big Legendary creatures and red spells. The list felt good, nothing really felt unbeatable other than SnS and Big Red (thankfully dodged both, kudos to my Miracles opponent in the Finals who knocked Big Red out for me). Diverting my opponent's Edict started an entertaining conversation against a Czech player as I explained the interaction.

    I faced Reanimator, Czech Pile, Miracles, RG Lands, Tezzerator...and....my memory is fading. Another Czech I think? Should of wrote it down at the time, sorry. But in my local meta this list also felt good against all variants of Delver and Czech while still having game against the rest of the field. I've been experimenting with other decks since snagging the Tabernacle, but this list is what I would fall back on for an important tourney. I'd like to fit a Safekeeper in the board but can't find the space.

    Anyway, deck is good imo. The False Tempo advantage is real, playing this deck allowed me to maximize on my opponent's lack of information more than anything else I've ever played. Very fun too.

  18. #1618
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Balanced View Post
    I agree with this to an extent, however I had some success in the current meta when I designed my list to beat Czech and think the deck is more of a force to be reckoned with than current results/opinions may suggest. As a late tourney report, I won a Tabernacle at a EW trial (56 players I think?) with the following list:

    Non-land Creatures:
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Blighted Agent

    Spells:
    4 Invigorate
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Berserk
    3 Vines of Vastwood
    3 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Stifle
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Become Immense

    Lands:
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    1 Pendelhaven
    1 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    2 Blossoming Defense
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Karakas
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Divert
    1 Viridian Corrupter
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 Force of Will
    1 Yavimaya Hollows


    The idea was to maximize on answers to Hymn and try to have those answers double on early turns spot removal, while respecting big Legendary creatures and red spells. The list felt good, nothing really felt unbeatable other than SnS and Big Red (thankfully dodged both, kudos to my Miracles opponent in the Finals who knocked Big Red out for me). Diverting my opponent's Edict started an entertaining conversation against a Czech player as I explained the interaction.
    There's no Spell Snare in this? Not that it's required by any means, but your main deck looks like a pretty stock list and the less traditional choices in the sideboard don't seem like they'd help your Czech Pile matchup all that much. Spell Snare hits the following cards that are commonly played in Czech Pile:

    Hymn to Tourach
    Counterspell
    Diabolic Edict
    Marsh Casualties
    Snapcaster Mage*
    Baleful Strix*

    *I want to highlight Snapcaster Mage and Baleful Strix because they're ETB value cards that we typically have trouble interacting with on the stack.

    To be frank, I'm not sure how you're winning most of your games against Czech Pile with this list. Your plan of countering Hymns and removal is hard enough as it is, but to have to do that in addition to fighting through counter magic and constant sources of card advantage is something that I just don't think Infect is very well suited to do. At the end of the day, they're working with a higher density of relevant cards, while we're trying to cobble together a combination of threat, pump, and counter magic on 3 separate axes that can all be interacted with. They have very few dead draws and a large number of cantrips to filter through the deck. We have counter magic and pump spells that can get stranded in hand without a threat to use them on.

    As an aside, our deck traditionally has a favorable match-up against Big Red. Even without silver bullets in the sideboard, we're just a low to the ground combo deck that's not as affected by lock pieces as many other combo decks.

  19. #1619

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    There's no Spell Snare in this? Not that it's required by any means, but your main deck looks like a pretty stock list and the less traditional choices in the sideboard don't seem like they'd help your Czech Pile matchup all that much. Spell Snare hits the following cards that are commonly played in Czech Pile:

    Hymn to Tourach
    Counterspell
    Diabolic Edict
    Marsh Casualties
    Snapcaster Mage*
    Baleful Strix*

    *I want to highlight Snapcaster Mage and Baleful Strix because they're ETB value cards that we typically have trouble interacting with on the stack.

    To be frank, I'm not sure how you're winning most of your games against Czech Pile with this list. Your plan of countering Hymns and removal is hard enough as it is, but to have to do that in addition to fighting through counter magic and constant sources of card advantage is something that I just don't think Infect is very well suited to do. At the end of the day, they're working with a higher density of relevant cards, while we're trying to cobble together a combination of threat, pump, and counter magic on 3 separate axes that can all be interacted with. They have very few dead draws and a large number of cantrips to filter through the deck. We have counter magic and pump spells that can get stranded in hand without a threat to use them on.

    As an aside, our deck traditionally has a favorable match-up against Big Red. Even without silver bullets in the sideboard, we're just a low to the ground combo deck that's not as affected by lock pieces as many other combo decks.
    I never considered snare. I'll think about that one, I agree hitting Baleful is very nice. Yeah, the main deck does feel pretty stock to me as well, where I prefer pierces over flusters the 2nd ponder over library and to have the 1 of stifle (this card was very valuable many times). Maybe I've just had good luck, I've had a similar experience with Czech that I've had with Miracles, which is generally setting them off kilter in the first few turns then finishing them off in the early mid game as they try to catch up. I certainly don't think the matchup is a heavily favorable, it's just been acceptably winnable for me I suppose.

    I've managed to dodge Big Red period, but early chalices and blood moons into consistent removal (Chandras) or Sneak Attacks both scare me unless I have a very fast hand. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.

  20. #1620
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Balanced View Post
    I never considered snare. I'll think about that one, I agree hitting Baleful is very nice. Yeah, the main deck does feel pretty stock to me as well, where I prefer pierces over flusters the 2nd ponder over library and to have the 1 of stifle (this card was very valuable many times). Maybe I've just had good luck, I've had a similar experience with Czech that I've had with Miracles, which is generally setting them off kilter in the first few turns then finishing them off in the early mid game as they try to catch up. I certainly don't think the matchup is a heavily favorable, it's just been acceptably winnable for me I suppose.
    That's fair, I might've misconstrued your previous post. Czech Pile is going to be a rough match up for us, at this point I've tried many things and it just doesn't seem like the tools for us to effectively combat them exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balanced View Post
    I've managed to dodge Big Red period, but early chalices and blood moons into consistent removal (Chandras) or Sneak Attacks both scare me unless I have a very fast hand. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.
    Chalice and Blood Moon definitely have the potential to lock us out, but I find we're typically in pretty good shape if we can fetch out our basic forest and/or resolve a Noble Hierarch. I wouldn't worry about Chandra as a removal spell, she costs 4 mana and has to tick up twice more before she can be used a second time. 4 damage is also just inside Invigorate's protective capabilities, and sorcery speed means our Inkmoths are untouchable by her.

    For what it's worth, I used to be pretty worried about this match-up too. That said, every opponent I've run into playing this deck at larger tournaments says Infect is their kryptonite. I'm sure there's a little bit of a mental bias at work here, where the losses against big red feel so overwhelmingly convincing and completely out of our control that we tend to skew the match-up outcome in their favor.

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