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Thread: [Deck] U/G Infect

  1. #1821
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by drocker23 View Post
    Has anyone tried running Dissenter's Deliverance in the main? What were your thoughts on it? Is this the utility card we want in the maindeck? It seems better than Piracy Charm and much better than Stifle. I don't know if it's worth it over a 4th Ponder or not. How do people feel about maindeck Dissenter's Deliverance?
    I'm trying Dissenter's Deliverance main. It's been fine but not amazing. Unlike Stifle or Piracy Charm, it cycles; however, it's not blue. #tradeoffs. It does free up a sideboard slot, though, which is something.

  2. #1822
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    I tried it out when Blade decks were on the upswing after the DRS ban (there's also a lot of D&T locally for me) and love it in that meta. When the extra Stoneforge decks died down, I went back to a 4th Ponder though.

    I like Stifle main more when there's a lot of Storm in the meta. But also, I've played Infect enough locally that if certain people here see I'm on it and we get paired up later, they just assume they have to play around one Stifle Free value.

  3. #1823
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    So I got to test some Great Sable Stag, and I gotta say it was pretty good if it hit the table. I turn 2d it once against Grixis Control, and it did the full 20. I played and protected enough other creatures to make sure they couldn't Edict it away. UB Delver Thoughtseized it, then Reanimated it, which was mildly annoying but definitely beatable. It would have certainly beaten my Aluren opponent's post-board configuration that didn't include the combo -- just value BUG stuff. Since Stag is a 3-drop, it can easily get Thoughtseized or Hymned away, though -- that happened a lot -- but I guess that's OK.

    Strix is crazy annoying, especially in conjunction with K-Command. I was trying a fourth Vines in the board, but I'm considering changing it to Apostle's Blessing because you're often using Vines un-kicked anyways, so for one mana you can use Blessing to name black to both attack past Strix and protect against all their black removal. I figure you can also bring this in in various other matchups like Aggro Loam because it gets around Chalice, and in some weird corner cases it can blank one Jitte activation (though I'd probably not even bring in Blessing in the majority of Jitte matchups except for, like, Stoneblade). Thoughts?

  4. #1824

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    So I got to test some Great Sable Stag, and I gotta say it was pretty good if it hit the table. I turn 2d it once against Grixis Control, and it did the full 20. I played and protected enough other creatures to make sure they couldn't Edict it away. UB Delver Thoughtseized it, then Reanimated it, which was mildly annoying but definitely beatable. It would have certainly beaten my Aluren opponent's post-board configuration that didn't include the combo -- just value BUG stuff. Since Stag is a 3-drop, it can easily get Thoughtseized or Hymned away, though -- that happened a lot -- but I guess that's OK.

    Strix is crazy annoying, especially in conjunction with K-Command. I was trying a fourth Vines in the board, but I'm considering changing it to Apostle's Blessing because you're often using Vines un-kicked anyways, so for one mana you can use Blessing to name black to both attack past Strix and protect against all their black removal. I figure you can also bring this in in various other matchups like Aggro Loam because it gets around Chalice, and in some weird corner cases it can blank one Jitte activation (though I'd probably not even bring in Blessing in the majority of Jitte matchups except for, like, Stoneblade). Thoughts?
    Told you Great Sable Stag is good! Glad you like it!
    I board in dissenter's deliverance in strix heavy matchups. It really helps since it's never a dead card.

  5. #1825

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Went to my LGS for a Legacy tournament with Infect. I did not do too well. I finished the day at 2-3.
    Here is the list I played:

    //Land 19
    1 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Pendelhaven
    4 Tropical Island
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Wasteland
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills

    //Creatures 12
    4 Blighted Agent
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Noble Hierarch

    //Spells
    2 Become Immense
    2 Berserk
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Crop Rotation
    3 Daze
    3 Force of Will
    4 Invigorate
    4 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Vines of Vastwood

    Sideboard
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Dissenter's Deliverance
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Hydroblast
    1 Karakas
    1 Nature's Claim
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Shapers' Sanctuary
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Viridian Corrupter


    Overall I really liked my list. It's pretty stock, yet straightforward. As far as the UG version goes, I feel the main deck is pretty much perfectly optimized for game 1. I am unlikely to make any changes to the main deck going forward. As for the sideboard, I also like it a lot. I'm unsure if the Grafdigger's Cage is necessary anymore. It feels like the worst card in my sideboard currently and I feel that my graveyard hate package might be a tad too high. I'm likely to cut this for a Blossoming Defense. All day today I got wrecked by my opponent having the perfect removal spell at the perfect time. There is also a possibility I add Blossoming Defense to the main instead, but more than likely I will put it in the sideboard. The other card I'm considering cutting from the sideboard is Shapers' Sanctuary. I feel like this card is pretty much the standard in a lot of sideboards and has fully replaced Spellskite. However, I just don't bring it in that often and when I do, I haven't seen it enough times to know whether or not the card is any good and worth having. I feel the effect is really strong, but I haven't had it in play enough times for me to really gauge the net worth of the card and whether or not it still deserves a sideboard slot. If it gets cut from the list, I will likely replace it with a card that kills Baleful Strix. That card is ridiculously good against us, it almost feels unfair.

    Matches I played against:

    Round 1 - UW Standstill - Loss
    He had so much removal. Every time I found another creature, he found another removal spell. I barely hit him for any poison the entire match. I just couldn't connect and I couldn't run him out of resources.
    Round 2 - Dredge - Win
    Dredge does what dredge does best and wins game 1. Game 2 I combo killed him pretty quickly needing minimal disruption. Game 3, he therapied me and missed. I drew a spell pierce. I pierce his faithless looting. his next turn when he cast Lion's Eye Diamond I cast Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog. and it was pretty much game over after that. He was on a mulligan to either 5 and after this series of plays, he couldn't do anything except hard cast Stinkweed Imp and Ichorid.
    Round 3 - Infect - Loss
    In game 1 we mirrored each other moves exactly until turn 3 which was pretty cool. We both set up Nobles + Blighted Agents. I had a Vines in hand and cast Ponder. I found a second Vines and Invigorate. So this turn I attacked with Agent and cast Vines w/kicker hoping he would use up a force of will or a spell pierce since I had mana open for Daze. He in fact did spell pierce which I was happy about. His next turn he attacked me and then played a land and a Sylvan Library leaving him one card in hand which I was happy about since I knew he couldn't have Force of Will now. I untap, attack, cast Invigorate. He let it resolve, then I casted Vines w/kicker for the win, except he blew me out by casting his own Vines (his last card in hand by the way). He untapped, used Sylvan Library, took 8, and then showed me the lethal Become Immense.
    Round 4 - Grixis Control - Loss
    This match was against my friend that I rode to the tournament with. I flooded the board with creatures in game 1 keeping a Blighted Agent alive enough turns to then kill him with Become Immense. Games 2 and 3 I suffered to his Baleful Strix blocking the way and his -1/-1 effects as well as Snapcaster + removal kept me from keeping a creature on board.
    Round 5 - Death and Taxes - Win
    Easy matchups are easy. Game 2 he got the better of me with Canonist and Thalia and I was able to needle Walking Ballista before it could come down after he revealed it to Recruiter of the Guard. Umezawa's Jitte never got online. He mulliganed to 5 in game 3 and kept a no land hand. We were both out of contention for Top 8 so it didn't really matter.

    All day long my opponent had the perfect removal spell, or the perfect force of will or spell pierce or flusterstorm or perfect interaction card (VINES!) every single time, even after every single trap I set for them. If I play Infect again next time, I'm strongly considering taking a serious look at the Bant versions that play a main deck Savannah and Swords to Plowshares in the sideboard. Mostly to get Baleful Strix, Thalia, and Ethersworn Canonist off the battlefield. I feel like Swords to Plowshares would have been a big difference maker in multiple matches today. The splash seems pretty much free and from the lists I've seen, it doesn't look like Bant gives up anything major in comparison to UG especially when it comes to sideboard slots. But I will have to do more research and testing as I've never played the Bant version up to this point yet, so I'm not sure what the optimal build will be, but I think it might strictly be better going forward, but this is only speculation.

  6. #1826
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by drocker23 View Post
    Overall I really liked my list. It's pretty stock, yet straightforward. As far as the UG version goes, I feel the main deck is pretty much perfectly optimized for game 1. I am unlikely to make any changes to the main deck going forward. As for the sideboard, I also like it a lot. I'm unsure if the Grafdigger's Cage is necessary anymore. It feels like the worst card in my sideboard currently and I feel that my graveyard hate package might be a tad too high. I'm likely to cut this for a Blossoming Defense. All day today I got wrecked by my opponent having the perfect removal spell at the perfect time. There is also a possibility I add Blossoming Defense to the main instead, but more than likely I will put it in the sideboard. The other card I'm considering cutting from the sideboard is Shapers' Sanctuary. I feel like this card is pretty much the standard in a lot of sideboards and has fully replaced Spellskite. However, I just don't bring it in that often and when I do, I haven't seen it enough times to know whether or not the card is any good and worth having. I feel the effect is really strong, but I haven't had it in play enough times for me to really gauge the net worth of the card and whether or not it still deserves a sideboard slot. If it gets cut from the list, I will likely replace it with a card that kills Baleful Strix. That card is ridiculously good against us, it almost feels unfair.

    All day long my opponent had the perfect removal spell, or the perfect force of will or spell pierce or flusterstorm or perfect interaction card (VINES!) every single time, even after every single trap I set for them. If I play Infect again next time, I'm strongly considering taking a serious look at the Bant versions that play a main deck Savannah and Swords to Plowshares in the sideboard. Mostly to get Baleful Strix, Thalia, and Ethersworn Canonist off the battlefield. I feel like Swords to Plowshares would have been a big difference maker in multiple matches today. The splash seems pretty much free and from the lists I've seen, it doesn't look like Bant gives up anything major in comparison to UG especially when it comes to sideboard slots. But I will have to do more research and testing as I've never played the Bant version up to this point yet, so I'm not sure what the optimal build will be, but I think it might strictly be better going forward, but this is only speculation.
    Thanks for the report, drocker23. I've cut Cage from my board as well. Dredge most likely brings in Grudge anyways to deal with Inkmoth and possible Cage, so I'd rather not play into their sideboard plan. Gravestone is annoying, though, making Surgical less effective.

    Where you're considering Blossoming Defense, I'm trying Apostle's Blessing since it allows me to attack through Strix (giving pro-black) and function as a protection spell for multiple matchups. Not being able to pump is certainly a drawback, but Strix has been a pain, so I feel that Blessing might be stronger in the matchup. We'll see what my testing brings.

    I've cut Shapers' Sanctuary in my Modern build, as it wasn't doing enough. Drawing cards are great if you can use them. If they kill all your threats, drawing into more pump spells ain't gonna cut it. There are times where I've drawn four or five cards from it and still gotten wrecked. Brainstorm is not legal in Modern, however, so it's much easier in Legacy to convert chaff you draw off Sanctuary into real cards. Plus you can draw into more powerful permission spells like Flusterstorm. I haven't seen Sanctuary enough in my Legacy games to have a definitive opinion on it, but I tend to prefer cards that play to the board and aren't such bad topdecks. It's currently in my sideboard until I have enough reps with the card in this format to say otherwise, but my eye's on it.

    Dismember accomplishes basically the same thing as Plow and doesn't require the splash. It's worse against the tempo decks, though. I think the splash is only worth it if you're playing haymakers like Rest in Peace or something narrow like Absolute Grace, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because I don't have much experience with the Bant builds. A card that gets Strix and Thalia is Piracy Charm, and it has the added benefit of pumping your own dude and being blue.

  7. #1827
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Played in a small-ish (32 player) 5-rounder here in Vancouver on Saturday and made Top 8 with this list:
    Maindeck (60)
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Blighted Agent
    2 Berserk
    1 Blossoming Defense
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Crop Rotation
    3 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Vines of Vastwood
    3 Daze
    1 Mission Briefing
    4 Invigorate
    3 Force of Will
    2 Become Immense
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Pendelhaven
    1 Savannah
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Wasteland
    3 Windswept Heath
    1 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Nature's Claim
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Vines of Vastwood
    1 Dissenter's Deliverance
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Force of Will
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Shapers' Sanctuary
    1 Absolute Grace
    1 Absolute Law
    1 Rest in Peace
    Unfortunately got crushed by my friend Kevin on Grixis Delver in the first round of top-8, but I was 4-0-1 (ID) and #1 after the Swiss.

    Rd. 1 - 2-1 vs. UG Infect
    Not like this! My opponent and I both know what each other is doing, since we're usually the only two players on poison at locals. I win the die roll, but he's the first one to find an evasive threat and gets there. Game 2, we both have pretty slow hands, but I get Agent this time and chip in 2-3 at a time with Hierarch and Pendelhaven. Game 3, I have Agent and Elf and he EOTs a Crop Rot for Inkmoth and I'm worried I'm dead. Instead he untaps with a bunch of lands and 3 cards in hand and hits me back for one. I find the extra pump that I need on top and kill him the next turn.

    Rd. 2 - 2-0 vs. Bant Maverick
    Game 1, he has one Swords, but I draw redundant threats and keep him on the back foot. Once I find counter backup, I combo him out. I can't remember exactly how game 2 went down, but he ended up with a Sword of Fire and Ice and a Jitte and I Swords his only creature when he tried to equip on his turn, knowing I have my second combo piece on top.

    Rd.3 - 2-0 vs Sneak and Show
    He's got a slow hand in game 1, but he's got enough permission to leave me having to chip in. I run him out of counterspells before he can find his own combo and get him. Game 2, I keep a one lander with Agent, Invigorate, Berserk, FoW, Daze, Daze, so I'm feeling pretty good. I draw a second Force and pass back. He plays a cantrip and passes back to me. I draw an Elf and play it out and pass. He goes land Show and Tell and my double Force beats that and his Force. He looks at me and goes, "well, at least you only have 3 cards. Are they exactly invigorate, berserk?" I show him my hand and he concedes.

    Rd. 4 - 2-0 vs. Death and Taxes
    He leads on Vial in game 1 and ends up with a pretty aggro draw, getting me down to 5, before I can Mission Briefing to flashback Invigorate and get 2 more cards in the bin to delve away for Become Immense. In game 2, I keep a hand with fetch, Elf, double Invigorate, Vines, Berserk, and Agent. It felt a bit sketchy, but with the second threat, I just go with it. He leads with vial. I actually fetch out a Forest, so I'm only cold to Swords and not also Wasteland. He plays land and taps out for Revoker! GGs.

    Rd. 5 - ID vs. Reanimator
    I was the only 4-0 (my rd. 4 was a pair down and the other 3-0s drew), so I get to draw into the top seed.

    Rd.6 - 0-2 vs. Grixis
    I felt like I had decent hands for the match up both games, but Kevin played tight and had some draws that lined up really well against mine. Game 1 he has a Delver that flipped, 3 bolts, and 2 Wastelands and runs me out of resources. His cards were less strong in game 2, but it was the same story--he got a quick clock and than answered all my threats.

    Disappointing end, but I can't complain too much. My draws were strong for most of the day and the deck felt strong.

  8. #1828

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    Thanks for the report, drocker23. I've cut Cage from my board as well. Dredge most likely brings in Grudge anyways to deal with Inkmoth and possible Cage, so I'd rather not play into their sideboard plan. Gravestone is annoying, though, making Surgical less effective.

    Where you're considering Blossoming Defense, I'm trying Apostle's Blessing since it allows me to attack through Strix (giving pro-black) and function as a protection spell for multiple matchups. Not being able to pump is certainly a drawback, but Strix has been a pain, so I feel that Blessing might be stronger in the matchup. We'll see what my testing brings.

    I've cut Shapers' Sanctuary in my Modern build, as it wasn't doing enough. Drawing cards are great if you can use them. If they kill all your threats, drawing into more pump spells ain't gonna cut it. There are times where I've drawn four or five cards from it and still gotten wrecked. Brainstorm is not legal in Modern, however, so it's much easier in Legacy to convert chaff you draw off Sanctuary into real cards. Plus you can draw into more powerful permission spells like Flusterstorm. I haven't seen Sanctuary enough in my Legacy games to have a definitive opinion on it, but I tend to prefer cards that play to the board and aren't such bad topdecks. It's currently in my sideboard until I have enough reps with the card in this format to say otherwise, but my eye's on it.

    Dismember accomplishes basically the same thing as Plow and doesn't require the splash. It's worse against the tempo decks, though. I think the splash is only worth it if you're playing haymakers like Rest in Peace or something narrow like Absolute Grace, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because I don't have much experience with the Bant builds. A card that gets Strix and Thalia is Piracy Charm, and it has the added benefit of pumping your own dude and being blue.
    Cage is mostly there for the Reanimator matchups. Since I was going to a local store where I know some of the players and what they like to play, I was okay with having Cage in my sideboard since I didn't really want anything else in particular for that specific event.

    Drawing cards is great. But I'm wondering if I wouldn't just rather put a copy of Viridian Corrupter and Green Sun's Zenith into the maindeck so I can have Sylvan Safekeeper in the sideboard instead. I would not play Safekeeper without access to Green Sun's Zenith. This means we would have a fetchable out to a baleful strix. However....

    The biggest thing I don't like about Apostle's Blessing is that it doesn't pump. And if you're using it to get past a Baleful Strix and name "pro black", then they just kill your creature anyway in response. If you are using it as a combat trick then you may get to kill 1 and then hope they don't have a second one or are able to rebuy the one you just killed. if you want this sort of effect, if you splash white you could MAYBE play Mother of Runes in the maindeck and/or sideboard. It's adds protection against targeted removal and you can probably play it as a 2 of. Maybe something like 1 main, 1 side or something. That depends on how important it really is to not let your opponent see that you are the white splash in game 1. But now we are getting into spicy territory.

    As for Dismember, the thing I don't like about Dismember when it comes to Baleful Strix is the fact they can just rebuy the Strix with Kolaghan's Command and/or Unearth if they play that. So killing it only helps some. Not to mention that Grixis Control decks also have access to bitterblossom which can be a big deal since it produces so many chump blockers that killing 1 with Dismember isn't really going to cut it. This is where Swords to Plowshares shines because it exiles the Strix so they cannot rebuy it against us. This is the same reason I'm not crazy about using Piracy charm to kill a Strix. But I am intrigued about how to attack past a Baleful Strix in order to kill them.

    So what if we played distortion strike? Modern plays it and it seems perfectly reasonable. if they kill 1 of our creatures, we get to try again with it next turn because of Rebound. and it pumps by 1 which is better than 0. It lets you attack past a strix which can be game over. But honestly, Grixis is just such a terrible matchup for us if the game goes past any more than 5 or 6 turns that I really don't think any of this is going to help us. This just reminds me why I think I want to go with the white splash until something changes in the format like bannings/unbannings or some kind of major metagame shift.

  9. #1829
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by drocker23 View Post
    Cage is mostly there for the Reanimator matchups. Since I was going to a local store where I know some of the players and what they like to play, I was okay with having Cage in my sideboard since I didn't really want anything else in particular for that specific event.

    Drawing cards is great. But I'm wondering if I wouldn't just rather put a copy of Viridian Corrupter and Green Sun's Zenith into the maindeck so I can have Sylvan Safekeeper in the sideboard instead. I would not play Safekeeper without access to Green Sun's Zenith. This means we would have a fetchable out to a baleful strix. However....

    The biggest thing I don't like about Apostle's Blessing is that it doesn't pump. And if you're using it to get past a Baleful Strix and name "pro black", then they just kill your creature anyway in response. If you are using it as a combat trick then you may get to kill 1 and then hope they don't have a second one or are able to rebuy the one you just killed. if you want this sort of effect, if you splash white you could MAYBE play Mother of Runes in the maindeck and/or sideboard. It's adds protection against targeted removal and you can probably play it as a 2 of. Maybe something like 1 main, 1 side or something. That depends on how important it really is to not let your opponent see that you are the white splash in game 1. But now we are getting into spicy territory.

    As for Dismember, the thing I don't like about Dismember when it comes to Baleful Strix is the fact they can just rebuy the Strix with Kolaghan's Command and/or Unearth if they play that. So killing it only helps some. Not to mention that Grixis Control decks also have access to bitterblossom which can be a big deal since it produces so many chump blockers that killing 1 with Dismember isn't really going to cut it. This is where Swords to Plowshares shines because it exiles the Strix so they cannot rebuy it against us. This is the same reason I'm not crazy about using Piracy charm to kill a Strix. But I am intrigued about how to attack past a Baleful Strix in order to kill them.

    So what if we played distortion strike? Modern plays it and it seems perfectly reasonable. if they kill 1 of our creatures, we get to try again with it next turn because of Rebound. and it pumps by 1 which is better than 0. It lets you attack past a strix which can be game over. But honestly, Grixis is just such a terrible matchup for us if the game goes past any more than 5 or 6 turns that I really don't think any of this is going to help us. This just reminds me why I think I want to go with the white splash until something changes in the format like bannings/unbannings or some kind of major metagame shift.
    All these are fair points. I've been playing the Dissenter's Deliverance maindeck over one of the Ponders to have game 1 outs to stuff like Strix, Chalice, and Jitte, but maybe the GSZ package with Corrupter main and Safekeeper from the board is better. The Mother of Runes idea is one I'd never considered and could be pretty interesting. With only one or two, I wonder how reliable it can be, though. Plus it needs a whole turn to become active. But once it's online, it's undeniably powerful. I don't think tipping off the opponent to the white splash in the matchups where you want Mother of Runes is a big deal.

    Regarding Grixis, I've been trying @Fenruscloud's Great Sable Stag tech and have liked it alongside a planeswalker threat in Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. Some local players have been telling me to test Garruk Relentless, but four mana is a lot, and it dies to Bolt (and K-Command, if you fought a Strix) too easily for my liking. Against Miracles, it's insane, but I don't think we necessarily need more help in that matchup, especially if you're already on Nissa. Perhaps the answer is indeed the white splash for stuff like Absolute Grace -- @qomori, how have you liked the Law/Grace package? Do you bring in both against Grixis or just Grace? In theory it both allows you to attack through Strix and provides protection against black removal. Plus, how does Grixis answer a resolved white enchantment?

  10. #1830
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    All these are fair points. I've been playing the Dissenter's Deliverance maindeck over one of the Ponders to have game 1 outs to stuff like Strix, Chalice, and Jitte, but maybe the GSZ package with Corrupter main and Safekeeper from the board is better. The Mother of Runes idea is one I'd never considered and could be pretty interesting. With only one or two, I wonder how reliable it can be, though. Plus it needs a whole turn to become active. But once it's online, it's undeniably powerful. I don't think tipping off the opponent to the white splash in the matchups where you want Mother of Runes is a big deal.

    Regarding Grixis, I've been trying @Fenruscloud's Great Sable Stag tech and have liked it alongside a planeswalker threat in Nissa, Voice of Zendikar. Some local players have been telling me to test Garruk Relentless, but four mana is a lot, and it dies to Bolt (and K-Command, if you fought a Strix) too easily for my liking. Against Miracles, it's insane, but I don't think we necessarily need more help in that matchup, especially if you're already on Nissa. Perhaps the answer is indeed the white splash for stuff like Absolute Grace -- @qomori, how have you liked the Law/Grace package? Do you bring in both against Grixis or just Grace? In theory it both allows you to attack through Strix and provides protection against black removal. Plus, how does Grixis answer a resolved white enchantment?
    I haven't had a lot of opportunity to test out Grace as much as I want to, but I've been running Absolute Law for over a year. On the weekend, I didn't bring in Grace in the top 8, because I knew he wasn't running Strix and only had a couple copies of Fatal Push. I think it depends on if they're on Strix, Pyromancer, or both. And how many copies of Bolt/Push.

    In general, I really like both cards in certain match ups, because it puts you in situations where you can fire off spells knowing you can't get blown out. And, I think more importantly, it lets us stay on our plan A, instead of going to Stag, TNN, planewalkers. I started testing Law because it evens out the match ups against Punishing Fire decks so well (even though they have K Grip, it still slows them down enough, unless they've got it in hand).

  11. #1831
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by qomori View Post
    I haven't had a lot of opportunity to test out Grace as much as I want to, but I've been running Absolute Law for over a year. On the weekend, I didn't bring in Grace in the top 8, because I knew he wasn't running Strix and only had a couple copies of Fatal Push. I think it depends on if they're on Strix, Pyromancer, or both. And how many copies of Bolt/Push.

    In general, I really like both cards in certain match ups, because it puts you in situations where you can fire off spells knowing you can't get blown out. And, I think more importantly, it lets us stay on our plan A, instead of going to Stag, TNN, planewalkers. I started testing Law because it evens out the match ups against Punishing Fire decks so well (even though they have K Grip, it still slows them down enough, unless they've got it in hand).
    Guess I misread your earlier report, @qomori. We had been on the discussion of Grixis Control, but you had played against Grixis Delver in the top8, a matchup where I wouldn’t think to bring in Grace because they’re mostly a Bolt and Pyromancer deck and despite having Bitterblossom and Liliana, the Last Hope in the 75. Grace seems great against Grixis Control, though, since they generally play, what, two Bolts (and I guess Pyroblast for Agent)? The rest of their removal, including Strix, is black.

    @qomori, after reading that you’ve been on Law for a year or so, against which matchups do you bring it in right now? I assume Lands is the big one, but what else? AggroLoam has Decay, Trophy, and Swords in addition to P-Fire, and Burn seems like it’s a straight-up race where playing a two-mana do-nothing May have real tempo consequences — tell me if this is way off, since I have zero reps with the card. UR Delver seems to be picking up again, so maybe there because that deck isn’t as combo-y as Burn?

  12. #1832
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    Guess I misread your earlier report, @qomori. We had been on the discussion of Grixis Control, but you had played against Grixis Delver in the top8, a matchup where I wouldn’t think to bring in Grace because they’re mostly a Bolt and Pyromancer deck and despite having Bitterblossom and Liliana, the Last Hope in the 75. Grace seems great against Grixis Control, though, since they generally play, what, two Bolts (and I guess Pyroblast for Agent)? The rest of their removal, including Strix, is black.

    @qomori, after reading that you’ve been on Law for a year or so, against which matchups do you bring it in right now? I assume Lands is the big one, but what else? AggroLoam has Decay, Trophy, and Swords in addition to P-Fire, and Burn seems like it’s a straight-up race where playing a two-mana do-nothing May have real tempo consequences — tell me if this is way off, since I have zero reps with the card. UR Delver seems to be picking up again, so maybe there because that deck isn’t as combo-y as Burn?
    Lands was the main impetus (there's a couple of lands players here locally). I do bring it in against Loam as well though. Yeah, they have other kill spells, but we can Vines/counter and go 1-for-1. Once P. Fire is online, your window to close out the game is so small and closes quickly. I bring it in against UR Delver, Wizards as well.

    I actually do bring it in against Burn. It's been bad one or two times when they just have spells, but it means your Hierarchs, Elfs, etc block all their creatures. And you can swing through their blockers with Elf.

  13. #1833
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Played this at FNM last night, went 3-0 and then chopped the fourth round, beating DnT with Walking Ballista, Miracles, and High Tide (which included me mulling to 3 in the third game and getting extremely lucky that my opponent slightly misplayed). Ran this:

    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Wooded Foothills
    1 Windswept Heath
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    1 Pendelhaven

    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Blighted Agent

    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Invigorate
    2 Berserk
    3 Vines of Vastwood
    2 Become Immense

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Dissenter's Deliverance
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    3 Force of Will

    // sideboard //

    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Viridian Corrupter
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Apostle's Blessing
    1 Great Sable Stag
    1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar

    The ninth fetch should be a fourth Trop, but I don't own one. For bigger events, I'll have access to one. It didn't end up mattering, but I should be playing four Trops. Notable choices:

    - no Wasteland: I figured it only matters in one or two matchups which I didn't think were in the room (Lands and TurboDepths), so I cut it last night and didn't miss it. I don't have enough reps to know if this is a sacred cow or a necessary evil, but I've found it to be pretty mediocre these days. I get that I can't beat a Glacial Chasm without it, but if they assemble the loop, one Wasteland isn't gonna cut it.
    - no removal spells: I just haven't wanted to bring them in very often. I could see a Dismember for cards like Canonist and Thalia, but that's one matchup that tends to be somewhat favorable. For Strix I can just keep in the Dissenter's Deliverance and bring in the Viridian Corrupter.
    - Apostle's Blessing: I only saw it once against Miracles, and it could've been any protection spell and accomplished the same thing. If I'm not gonna play Wasteland going forward, perhaps the Blessing in the sideboard should be a different protection spell (Blossoming Defense or the fourth Vines of Vastwood) so I can better handle Maze of Ith. I played Blessing to be able to attack through Strix, but I didn't get paired against any Strix to know how the card performs there. I figure there's more Strix than Maze right now, so I'm inclined to keep rolling with Blessing until I get more info. As drocker23 said, though, it doesn't pump, which is definitely a thing. Maybe the attacking-through-Strix corner case doesn't come up often enough to merit playing Blessing over, say, a Blossoming Defense.
    - only 3 Force of Wills: In many of my post-board configurations, the blue count was lower than I'd like, especially given that four of those cards (Blighted Agent) are ones I don't particularly want to pitch. I opted for the third Spell Pierce in the sideboard and the fourth Daze maindeck to make up for not having four FoWs. Maybe I'll swap out the sideboard Pierce for the fourth Force again, but I just wanted to try this configuration. I missed the fourth Force against High Tide, but how often am I going to see that deck? At least the third Surgical Extraction gives me the same amount of turn 0 interaction against Reanimator, and Pierce is respectable against Sneak 'n' Show and Storm.
    - 4 Daze: I had several tempo kills that would not have been possible without this card, leading me to believe that, at least in game 1, it's something I routinely want to see. I'm not certain about this, though, but it's an easy card to shave when the games slow down.

    Things I'm considering:

    - Green Sun's Zenith + Sylvan Safekeeper (over a protection spell in the board): I don't think this is necessary, but I'm open to it. I'd need to find room for Dryad Arbor, too. Seems like a lot of slots for this effect. I'm inclined to shy away from Arbor because Liliana, the Last Hope appears to be the more popular of the two Lilis these days, and Arbor stinks against her.

    I'm open to any and all feedback on the list, as I'm going to play Infect in what looks like a 7-rounder tomorrow.

    Thanks a lot!

  14. #1834

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    List looks solid.
    How did you do in your 7 rounder?

  15. #1835
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    List looks solid.
    How did you do in your 7 rounder?
    Ended up being a 6-rounder, but fortune smiled upon my 1/1s, and I took it down. I ran reasonably well, had my cards line up well with my opponents' draws, lucked out that my opponent didn't have it a fair bit, and played well enough to win (but definitely not perfectly -- no game-losing blunders, but a few suboptimal lines and some small sideboarding errors in hindsight). I'll do my best to remember how the games unfolded. I don’t remember all my mulligans, but I’ve noted the ones that stuck out. First, my list:

    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    1 Windswept Heath
    4 Tropical Island
    1 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus
    1 Pendelhaven

    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Blighted Agent

    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Invigorate
    2 Berserk
    3 Vines of Vastwood
    1 Apostle's Blessing
    2 Become Immense

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    3 Daze
    3 Force of Will

    // sideboard //

    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Karakas
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    1 Dissenter's Deliverance
    1 Viridian Corrupter
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Great Sable Stag
    1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar

    I came around to the consensus split of Daze, Force of Will, and Ponder, and it felt pretty good. I boarded down to one or two Forces in most fair matchups due to blue card count and need for that effect, but having the fourth Force for the combo decks is almost certainly correct. I opted to swap the Dissenter's Deliverance I originally had maindeck for Apostle's Blessing, thinking that Chalice of the Void would be less common than needing a fourth protection spell, including the off chance that I can attack through resistance (which came up). Many thanks to my Knight Ware community for the help on the last few slots.

    Here's the metagame breakdown: http://www.knight-ware.com/ccg/magic...19kOBrgrdAcMv8. 46 players made this one of the smaller Sunday Staples tournaments at Knight Ware, but hey, I'll take it.

    Round 1: Slow Depths

    Game 1, my opponent plays two early Bobs to my Blighted Agent. I have Invigorate, Force, blue card, and a land in hand with Berserk on top of my library. I Force his Inquisition to protect Invigorate, as I can't let the game go long. I know he has Crop Rotation in hand (revealed off Bob) along with two unknowns. I draw Berserk, cross my fingers, and get there -- guess he didn't have Maze of Ith maindeck.

    Game 2, he plays double discard spell on turn 1, followed by discard spell and Depths on turn 2. I Deliverance his Mox Diamond to slow him down -- the card is for Needle more than Diamond, but it's effective here, buying me a couple turns and compelling my opponent to Crop away his Depths for a Bayou. I play a bunch of threats and don't get blown out by whatever he has in hand -- turns out it's another Crop Rotation. I'm able to swerve past a Hexmage with evasive threats and win before my opponent assembles the combo.

    Round 2: Omni-Tell (splashing white for Terminus and sideboard Swords)

    Game 1 I have a slower hand with a couple cantrips and see Island --> Preordain + Lotus Petal. My Brainstorm is good, drawing me a threat, Pierce, and Force. To my chagrin, he plays Boseiju. He uncounterably Show and Tells in Omniscience and is able to deal with my countermagic on his Cunning Wish with a well-timed (free) Intuition. I die to Emrakul.

    Game 2 was bizarre. I chip away at my opponent's life total while my opponent looks for answers. To my astonishment, I get a Hierarch and an Agent Terminus-ed, prompting some friendly banter between us. I still have Inkmoth back. At the end of my next turn, he Wipe Away-s my untapped Trop to resolve Show and Tell, puts in Omniscience, and I ... am still alive. Wow. I'm able to attack and play a lethal pump spell in two consecutive turns, which each get (free) Forced. Eventually Pendelhaven (or Hierarch -- can't remember) + Berserk is enough to buff my Inkmoth for lethal.

    Game 3 goes to time. I get stuck on lands and am forced to Brainstorm. I end up locking myself and stuck discarding for a few turns so I can leave up countermagic to not die. Not ideal. Eventually I draw Hierarch and Inkmoth and am able to maneuver. Meanwhile, my opponent isn't doing much. When we get to turns, my hand is stacked: two Invigorates, Force + blue card, two Pierces, and Flusterstorm. He casts Show and Tell, I double Pierce, and they resolve, leaving him with an untapped Tundra. I untap and go for the kill. He Forces my second Invigorate, I Force back, and win. What a match.

    Round 3: Food Chain

    My opponent is a veteran Food Chain pilot, so I'm expecting a tough one. Game 1, we each play a dork on turn 1, and I play an Agent on turn 2 and Ponder into a second Invigorate in hand and a third on top of my library. My opponent casts Food Chain on turn 2, exiles a couple Birds to cast Trinket Mage to tutor up Ballista, and plays Ballista for 2. I respond with an Invigorate on my only infect creature. He shoots Hierarch and passes. During my upkeep he shoots my Agent, which I Invigorate, then Invigorate again with the one I draw, putting him to nine poison. He draws a Strix, doesn't find a third land for his Murderous Cut in hand, and concedes.

    Game 2, I have an Inkmoth and a Hierarch. We fight over a Strix: I Force, he Forces back, and I Pierce his Force. I put him to 7 poison with a Pendelhaven and an Invigorate -- I did it then to play around Hymn. He doesn't draw anything and concedes.

    Round 4: Jund

    Don’t remember a ton about these two games, but I believe turn 1 discard spell and turn 3 Lili make appearances in each. Inkmoth wins me both games. In one game, I animate it and protect it from Wasteland with Vines. My opponent never gets Punishing Fire online in either game, thankfully.

    Round 5: DnT

    There are three 12-pointers, and I get paired down, so I can’t double-draw into the Top 8. I offer the draw, and my opponent declines. Game 1, I have the nuts: Elf, Daze his Mom, then Invigorate + Berserk. #easygame

    Game 2, I end up leaving in one Force (which is probably a mistake, but it ends up working out here). I Force his turn 1 Vial cast off of basic Plains and then play Hierarch. My opponent plays Wasteland into Thalia. Turn 2 I deliberate on my fetchland decision and end up going with a second Trop to play (I think) Ponder + Glistener Elf. Ponder finds me a Blighted Agent and two lands. On turn 3 my opponent double Wasteland-s me. Ouch. I play (I think) Pendelhaven and the Blighted Agent. All this time, I have Needle in hand and wait to play it because I want to know what to name. My opponent then plays Stoneforge and fetches Jitte. I wait a turn on the Needle to get him to commit mana to Jitte and develop my own, but this was a stupid punt. I miscounted how much the Become Immense in my hand would cost and didn’t realize that I had the kill next turn. He passes the turn with three Plains open. I cast Needle, expecting him to put in Jitte in response. Since he doesn’t, I end up naming Stoneforge to Time Walk him. He hard casts Jitte with a Horizon Canopy open, and I know I have the win with Become Immense because he can’t Plow my creature with Thalia out.

    Round 6: ID

    With 16 points, I’m the #1 seed going into the Top 8. There are two Grixis Delver decks, one on each side of the bracket, along with Moon Stompy. Can I keep dodging the bad matchups?

    Quarterfinals: EldraziPost

    I knew my opponent was on some kind of Eldrazi deck but wasn’t sure which build. I ship the following hand, probably thinking too long about it: Pendelhaven, Inkmoth Nexus, Ponder, Blighted Agent, 2 Vines of Vastwood, Berserk.

    I figure the fail rate is too high on such a slow hand. Since Pendelhaven’s not a Forest, Invigorate off the top doesn’t even speed up the draw. Even if I draw a blue source next turn, I could potentially get much of my hand locked out by a Chalice. Plus there are so many better 6s. My mulligan is deece but vulnerable to Chalice: Hierarch, a couple cantrips, a couple lands, Blighted Agent. My opponent’s hand is glacially slow. He doesn’t play anything except for a turn 3 Reality Smasher, which doesn’t matter because he’s dead on turn 4.

    Game 2, I forget that Apostle’s Blessing is in my maindeck, don’t board it out, and embarrassingly draw it in my opener. The rest of the hand is pretty good, though, and I have a Brainstorm to fetch it away, so I keep. He plays a turn 2 Grim Monolith and a turn 3 Endbringer + Thorn of Amethyst. I have enough guys on the board to potentially race it, especially if he tries to ping before damage (which he does, and I kick Vines to protect my Agent). Unfortunately he topdecks Ensnaring Bridge with an empty hand, and I slowly die to Endbringer pings. If not for the well-timed Bridge, I win this game.

    Game 3, I rectify my sideboarding mistake and swap out the Blessing. I flood the board with a bunch o’ dudes before he can empty his hand for Ensnaring Bridge. I feel extremely lucky that I didn’t have to deal with Chalice or Trinisphere in any of the three games. Maybe this is my tournament to win.

    Semifinals: Slow Depths

    Game 1, I lead with Elf into Hierarch and Inkmoth. I get my Elf Decayed and my Inkmoth Wasteland-ed. My second Inkmoth ends up being enough. I activate and attack into my opponent’s Mox, land, Stage, and Depths. He activates Stage, and in response, I cast Apostle’s Blessing to give my Inkmoth pro black to attack past Marit Lage. Invigorate + Berserk gets the job done.

    Game 2, I mull to 5 and keep a hand of 2 Elves, 2 Vines, and a fetchland, scrying another land to the top. My opponent, on a mull to 6, plays Stage and Mox Diamond, pitching Forest. This ends up being quite relevant, as he doesn’t have the mana to do everything he wants to do. I play a dude, and he misses his land drop, which is great for me. I draw a Ponder and find Invigorate and Berserk on top, keeping the Berserk and hiding Invigorate. I attack, deploy another Elf, and pass. He plays Wasteland and passes, declining to use it. I swing and Invigorate + Berserk an Elf with Vines protection at the ready. He tanks, then shows me Crop Rotation and Abrupt Decay in hand and offers the handshake. He doesn’t have another colored source to cast the Decay. I assume this means that he doesn’t have Maze of Ith in his 75. I’m off to the finals, feeling like I’ve stolen this set.

    Grand Finals: BR Reanimator

    Needless to say, being on the play is pretty darn good in this matchup. I keep a respectable hand with Force, blue card, Elf, Agent, Inkmoth, and a blue source. Elf, go. My opponent plays Swamp and Lotus Petal, then casts Dark Ritual. I think for a moment, then let it resolve. If he has discard + Entomb —> reanimation spell, so be it. Even if he has this combination of cards, he can just do it all again next turn. Since I don’t have an Invigorate + Berserk kill, I can’t risk it. He Entombs, which I Force, then passes. I chip in for 1, play Inkmoth and cast Agent. I somehow get to untap, and my opponent’s dejected demeanor tells me that he badly needed Entomb to resolve. I fire up Inkmoth, swing for 3, and hope that the Helvault doesn’t blow open and release everyone’s favorite demon. Amazingly I get to swing for 3 two more times to ice the (lucky) win.

    Game 2, I bring in ten cards and open a strange assortment of hate: Karakas, Pithing Needle, Surgical Extraction, Spell Pierce, Inkmoth Nexus (my only one), Blighted Agent, and (I think) a cantrip. It’s a little sketchy, but I’m bound to draw mana sources at some point, right? My opponent Seizes my Thoughts and discards Surgical. I rip Force and play Inkmoth into Needle, naming Griselbrand. My opponent then plays Faithless Looting (which I inexplicably don’t counter), binning Griselbrand and Chancellor. The ensuing Reanimate compels me to Force, though. Mercifully I draw a blue source and cast Agent, leaving up Karakas. I believe my opponent then Reanimates the Chancellor one or two turns later with me also finding an Elf. I remember Daze-ing a flashed back Looting through Chancellor, garnering dap from the onlookers and my opponent. I Brainstorm to try to find the win -- unsuccessful, yet I find Bog, Crop Rotation, and a land. I should’ve stacked it so that I put the Bog on top and left up two mana to fetch for it. Instead I just play Bog, meeting an end-of-turn Entomb for Elesh Norn. Idiot. Luckily this doesn’t come back to haunt me. I still have Inkmoth and Karakas, so I have a shot to win even if he disinterred Elesh Norn. I chip in for the last couple points of poison to seal the victory for Team 1/1s, claiming a played Volcanic Island for dodging Grixis all day.

    Things I learned:

    - Krosan Grip stinks. I couldn't use it effectively against DnT, and I ended up not even casting it in game 2 against Omniscience because of its prohibitive mana cost. I'm wary about playing Nature's Claim because it doesn't hit Chalice. Naturalize seems extremely meh, but maybe it's the right choice. I need to test them all.
    - Apostle's Blessing won me a game, proved ineffective in a colorless matchup, and served the same role as any other protection spell on two other occasions. Jury's still out, but I'm leaning towards keeping it.
    - I tried bringing in Great Sable Stag against Slow Depths in one round, but this isn't where I want to be. It seems that Stag is an extremely narrow choice but highly effective where it's intended. 3 out of 46 players sleeved up Grixis Control yesterday, constituting about 6.5% of the metagame, which seems to be close to accurate for the Legacy meta at large according to MTG Top8. If you include the lone Death's Shadow player yesterday (against which Stag is lights out), that brings the total up another 2ish%. Maybe that makes it worth playing Stag, but I'm still not sure if I want to spend a valuable sideboard slot on a card for exactly two matchups right now. Maybe 8.5% of the metagame is worth it, though, I dunno.
    - I didn't miss Wasteland at all against Slow Depths. The matchup felt favorable, and we're almost always the beatdown against these grindier versions.

    Thanks for reading, y'all. Feel free to ask me any questions!

  16. #1836
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    Thanks for reading, y'all. Feel free to ask me any questions!
    Great reading. And congrats to the top finish.
    I have a question about Nissa. You didn't mention it in your story. Did you have chance to play it? Isn't there a similar issue with Nissa as you mention with Stag?
    Thanks.

  17. #1837
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by jattra View Post
    Great reading. And congrats to the top finish.
    I have a question about Nissa. You didn't mention it in your story. Did you have chance to play it? Isn't there a similar issue with Nissa as you mention with Stag?
    Thanks.
    Thanks a lot. You’re right, I didn’t bring in Nissa at all on Sunday. I think Nissa’s a little better than Stag because it’s viable against both upper echelon control decks in the format: Grixis and Miracles. According to MTG Top8, that’s about 13% of the meta, so a versatile anti-control card that spits out dudes seems worth it to me. I’ve been meaning to test Garruk Relentless over Nissa, but my hunch is that it’s worse against Grixis due to being more susceptible to burn-based removal and costing one more mana, making it easier to get discarded. Stag gets sniped by Swords too easily, so I wouldn’t bring it in against Miracles — that’s why I’m waffling over the Stag sideboard slot.

    Hope that makes sense.

  18. #1838

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    Things I learned:

    - Krosan Grip stinks. I couldn't use it effectively against DnT, and I ended up not even casting it in game 2 against Omniscience because of its prohibitive mana cost. I'm wary about playing Nature's Claim because it doesn't hit Chalice. Naturalize seems extremely meh, but maybe it's the right choice. I need to test them all.
    - Apostle's Blessing won me a game, proved ineffective in a colorless matchup, and served the same role as any other protection spell on two other occasions. Jury's still out, but I'm leaning towards keeping it.
    - I tried bringing in Great Sable Stag against Slow Depths in one round, but this isn't where I want to be. It seems that Stag is an extremely narrow choice but highly effective where it's intended. 3 out of 46 players sleeved up Grixis Control yesterday, constituting about 6.5% of the metagame, which seems to be close to accurate for the Legacy meta at large according to MTG Top8. If you include the lone Death's Shadow player yesterday (against which Stag is lights out), that brings the total up another 2ish%. Maybe that makes it worth playing Stag, but I'm still not sure if I want to spend a valuable sideboard slot on a card for exactly two matchups right now. Maybe 8.5% of the metagame is worth it, though, I dunno.
    - I didn't miss Wasteland at all against Slow Depths. The matchup felt favorable, and we're almost always the beatdown against these grindier versions.

    Thanks for reading, y'all. Feel free to ask me any questions!
    Congrats on the finish, nice result! Also glad to see you trying the Stag and Nissa I praised so much, too bad you didn't really get to play them.

    Here are my thoughts about your considerations:
    - I don't play KGrip for the same reason, the cost is too high for the upside of split second to matter. I always play Naturalize and really love it, I'm never going back to Nature's Claim. The increased cost of a single green mana is not a real problem and it costing 2 is actually an advantage vs Chalice/counterbalance, etc.
    - You are right, I only play Stag in 2 matchups really: Grixis control and death shadow. Like you said, it's an extremely narrow card but when it resolves vs these decks, you've pretty much won the game. I could see why you wouldn't want to spend a sideboard slot on it though. It's just how I like my sideboard at the moment. Same is true for Nissa by the way, this card is meant solely for grindy (often control) matchups.

  19. #1839
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    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenruscloud View Post
    Congrats on the finish, nice result! Also glad to see you trying the Stag and Nissa I praised so much, too bad you didn't really get to play them.

    Here are my thoughts about your considerations:
    - I don't play KGrip for the same reason, the cost is too high for the upside of split second to matter. I always play Naturalize and really love it, I'm never going back to Nature's Claim. The increased cost of a single green mana is not a real problem and it costing 2 is actually an advantage vs Chalice/counterbalance, etc.
    - You are right, I only play Stag in 2 matchups really: Grixis control and death shadow. Like you said, it's an extremely narrow card but when it resolves vs these decks, you've pretty much won the game. I could see why you wouldn't want to spend a sideboard slot on it though. It's just how I like my sideboard at the moment. Same is true for Nissa by the way, this card is meant solely for grindy (often control) matchups.
    Thanks again, Fenruscloud, for your contribution to Infect literature. Your Google doc helped rapidly speed up the learning curve for me, especially regarding sideboarding.

    After talking with someone in my playgroup, I'm considering testing Seal of Primordium in the K-Grip spot. Against Omniscience decks, you can put in Seal off their Show and Tell, never having to resolve it. Yeah, it doesn't beat an immediate Emrakul, but they don't always have it. It must be worse against DnT, though. You won't get them to sink mana into equipping Jitte with Seal on the table, so I guess Seal is worse for our tempo. Then again, you can possibly sneak it in under a Thalia, and they probably board out Revokers against us (but maybe not 'cuz it hits Hierarch). Flickerwisp can still save their Jitte, but on-board Seal instead of in-hand Naturalize makes it easier for them to set up that situation. I dunno, I guess it comes down to what you want to hedge against more.

    I feel like I have two flex slots in my sideboard: Stag and the third Surgical. If I expect heavy Grixis, I have no qualms with sleeving up Stag, but it's nice to have a little wiggle room to try things.

  20. #1840

    Re: [Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by theMonster View Post
    Thanks again, Fenruscloud, for your contribution to Infect literature. Your Google doc helped rapidly speed up the learning curve for me, especially regarding sideboarding.

    After talking with someone in my playgroup, I'm considering testing Seal of Primordium in the K-Grip spot. Against Omniscience decks, you can put in Seal off their Show and Tell, never having to resolve it. Yeah, it doesn't beat an immediate Emrakul, but they don't always have it. It must be worse against DnT, though. You won't get them to sink mana into equipping Jitte with Seal on the table, so I guess Seal is worse for our tempo. Then again, you can possibly sneak it in under a Thalia, and they probably board out Revokers against us (but maybe not 'cuz it hits Hierarch). Flickerwisp can still save their Jitte, but on-board Seal instead of in-hand Naturalize makes it easier for them to set up that situation. I dunno, I guess it comes down to what you want to hedge against more.

    I feel like I have two flex slots in my sideboard: Stag and the third Surgical. If I expect heavy Grixis, I have no qualms with sleeving up Stag, but it's nice to have a little wiggle room to try things.
    You're welcome, theMonster. Glad my guide helped you!

    Regarding Seal of Primordium, I agree it depends on your personal preference. I don't like my opponent knowing I have artifact/enchantment removal, so I play Naturalize. But Seal has it upsides as well.

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