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Thread: [Deck] U/G Infect

  1. #41
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Any thoughts on Ryan Macedo's approach to infect? I'm on mobile atm, so I can't post the list, but I remember it top 8'd one of the very recent scg opens.

    The main difference was an inclusion of 3 stifle and 2 wastelands for a pseudo mana denial strategy. Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main. RUG delver's old mana denial plan was incredibly strong, so I can see it meshing well with infect creatures. Maybe this is something we can try out, at least until people are wise to stifles again.

  2. #42
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    @hobart - 1 tc + 1 probe is the way to go..

    here's my current list, that's been doin wonders lately

    19 lands (loaded on fetches to support tc)
    3 trops/1forest/3windswept/3mistyrf/3wooded/2pendels/4inkmoths

    12 creatures
    4 each of nobles/glisteners/blighteds

    29 spells
    (my current meta is ur, so i want to finish games early with 2 groundswells as additional aggressive pumps, with 9 fetches and crop rots GW is live almost all the time)

    4 fows
    3 dazes
    1 pierce
    2 gtaxian probes
    2 treasure cruise
    4 brainstorms
    2 crop rots
    2 groundswells
    3 vines vastwood (i always consider this spell a counter spell for removal and not a pump on this deck, probe however will smoothen out its function)
    4 invigorates
    2 berserks

    sb: (i dont put creature hate anymore, i believe this deck just wan to hit fast! and theyre not putting pressure on me, it's the other way around)
    2 hydroblasts
    1 mizzium skin (decay, toxic, forked, golgari charm...submerges...works as my 4th vines
    1 dispel (might change to 2nd mizzium skin
    2 pierces
    1 sylvan lib
    1 pithing needle
    2 surgicals
    1 tormod's crypt
    1 necropede
    2 krosan grips
    1 naturalize (i dont carry claim as it's dead vs chalice1)
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  3. #43
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main.
    What people realized with the Modern Infect is that Treasure Cruise (and to a different extent Dig Through Time as noted on the previous page) is that in essence both cards have the same function as Become Immense. All the delve cards that could be played serve the same purpose: make a lethal creature. The difference between the blue delve cards and green delve card though is that the blue ones dig for the kill while the green one is the kill, and the consensus I last saw was that the blue ones were better because they could prevent or recover being blown out of the game.
    Last edited by Mockingbird; 12-05-2014 at 11:22 PM.
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  4. #44

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    I've noticed that in the quarterfinals of GP New Jersey Tom Ross hasn't sideboarded Krosan Grip against Miracles. I'm wrong? Watch from 6:50!


  5. #45
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED View Post
    I've noticed that in the quarterfinals of GP New Jersey Tom Ross hasn't sideboarded Krosan Grip against Miracles. I'm wrong? Watch from 6:50!

    Interesting choice on his part. There might be an argument for not needing to be afraid of counter top, but I can't say I'd do the same in that position. The only reason I could imagine is to lower the number of 3 drops, preparing for any 3 drops Phillip might float with counterbalance to deal with invigorate. At that point though, it just feels like unnecessary mind gaming.

  6. #46
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Good catch though, Alex. Im always curious to see how pro players sideboard, as I feel it's a lot more complicated than people initially give it credit for. Seeing stuff like this is really interesting, and it always prompts me to reevaluate how I approach post board games.

  7. #47

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesture View Post
    Any thoughts on Ryan Macedo's approach to infect? I'm on mobile atm, so I can't post the list, but I remember it top 8'd one of the very recent scg opens.

    The main difference was an inclusion of 3 stifle and 2 wastelands for a pseudo mana denial strategy. Additionally, his list had no cruises and 2 copies of become immense in the main. RUG delver's old mana denial plan was incredibly strong, so I can see it meshing well with infect creatures. Maybe this is something we can try out, at least until people are wise to stifles again.
    RUG delver worked because it had 12 creatures, removal and denial, and could easily operate with little mana. 8 creatures were hard to kill. We have essentially 16 creatures and no removal, our creatures are very easy to kill (ignoring the protection spells we have). We are also more mana intensive. Though it may be worth testing, I don't see this as the right solution.

  8. #48

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by datanaga View Post
    Unless Treasure Cruise will be banned, I think UG infect is almost unplayable in today's meta. We have negative matchup against UR delver, and sideboard strategy against young pyromancer is very effective against us. Every one is playing cards like forked bolt, grim lavamacer, darkblast, jitte, blood moon, golgari charm etc.
    Im definitely happy, that I didnt purchase my berserks yet.

    What is your experience?
    I'm sick of hearing about "the meta".......there is no real reason why you can't play this deck or any other competitive deck, unless your play group is so inbred that certain strategies are un playable in which case that's sad. This deck allows you to out maneuver the opponent and forces them to play very defensive in many situations. Remember that patience pays when playing infect and an end of turn crop rotation is often game.

  9. #49
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmythegreek View Post
    Remember that patience pays when playing infect and an end of turn crop rotation is often game.
    +1, that's why crop rots deserve atleast 2 slots in our main as it is so vital in this very deck.
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  10. #50

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Has anybody tried Misdirection as a one-of? Just thought of it considering that it could act as a 3rd "FoW." Redirects Bolt, STP, etc to opponent's monsters. Might be too heavy on wasting two cards, but any thoughts?

  11. #51

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethalbiscotti View Post
    Has anybody tried Misdirection as a one-of? Just thought of it considering that it could act as a 3rd "FoW." Redirects Bolt, STP, etc to opponent's monsters. Might be too heavy on wasting two cards, but any thoughts?
    Might worth trying a 2/1 split FoW misdirection... I have tried running a single divert in the SB instead of the 4th spell pierce. I don't get to practice as much as I would like though so maybe other ppl can try out divert? The nice thing about it (and misdir) is that they can stop decays (if there is another valid target) and hydro/pyroblasts.

    Another thing I have been pondering while there is a large amount of red targeted removal is a SB slot or two for would defiance. Yes it is a bit slow, but if it lands then their targeted removal is useless.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_six View Post
    Might worth trying a 2/1 split FoW misdirection... I have tried running a single divert in the SB instead of the 4th spell pierce. I don't get to practice as much as I would like though so maybe other ppl can try out divert? The nice thing about it (and misdir) is that they can stop decays (if there is another valid target) and hydro/pyroblasts.

    Another thing I have been pondering while there is a large amount of red targeted removal is a SB slot or two for would defiance. Yes it is a bit slow, but if it lands then their targeted removal is useless.
    I'm looking to do some testing with divert next time I play legacy, but I definitely don't think misdirection is where this deck wants to be. The card disadvantage from force of will is already very taxing, but we play copies of the card in order to answer faster combo decks. Misdirection seems ideal as an easy 2 for 2 by directing removal spells at opposing creatures, but it doesn't answer hate permanents or combo finishes, the 2 reasons why we play force of will. Given that infect does a reasonable job of operating when both players are tight on resources, I think divert might be a reasonable sb choice that does what misdirection does minus the card disadvantage.

    I've done some testing with wild defiance, and it's usually just a turn too slow to end up mattering. That said, it's one of the better answers I can think of to sudden shock, so if those start showing up en masse it might be good to give that card another chance. Outside of that though, we're usually looking to end the game a turn or two before we can set up wild defiance.

  13. #53

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    What do you think about UR Delver and Maverick match-ups? I think they are very difficult!

  14. #54
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED View Post
    What do you think about UR Delver and Maverick match-ups? I think they are very difficult!
    UR Delver's always been tricky, as the deck just does a fantastic job picking apart your threats with forked bolts and lightning bolts then reloading with cruise (ie. the deck does what it's supposed to do). Post board can get really nasty if people are playing sudden shock, but from what I can tell that hasn't caught on in a lot of places, so that's not something you should be too worried about for now. Best advice I can give is to just play the match-up repeatedly. You're looking to exploit windows in which you can generate some advantage out of your cards. Pay attention to when people are tapped out, what they're representing, and what combat scenarios you can set up in which you'll come out ahead. Be patient and use your soft counters to obtain information throughout the game rather than saving them for an alpha strike turn. Young Pyromancer makes Glistener Elf a lot worse, so I'd even consider siding out a copy or two post board for a slower and steadier game plan. I'd also recommend cutting FoW's g2 and g3, as you're already fighting an uphill battle in raw card numbers, and UR delver doesn't have any priority must-counter cards.

    Funny that you bring up Maverick, they were talking about the Infect matchup not too long ago
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...verick/page278
    I'm not sure how the matchup plays out, as I haven't had a lot of experience against Maverick myself. That said, I don't see a lot that you need to be afraid of besides their random arsenal of equipments. SoFI seems ugly, and Jitte is just unstoppable once it has counters on it, so do your best to keep those off the table whenever you can. Keep in mind the neat little tricks you have with Vines and Stifle (stop the equip, stifle adding counters to Jitte) (for the love of god just don't let Jitte get counters). Side in artifact removal and Sylvan Library if you have them, maybe side out FoW's, though it mostly depends on what they're running. If you're not running a white splash for StP, don't forget that you can use Berserk as removal to take out hate bears.

  15. #55

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    The UR matchup is indeed bad, and sometimes it gets even worse after SB, because you have to watch out for random stuff like Electrickery (which is annoying because it dodges Vines) or Blood Moon. If you are running the white splash (I am not) Absolute Law might be the best solution. In an attempt to improve my MTGO UG Infect matchup against UR I have done some testing with 2 maindeck Wild Defiance, and yes it is slow, but you get full value for the cost if it hits. It specifically makes Berserk much better, so I have upped the Berserk count to 3, cut FoW and some blue spells overall.

    This line of play has come up a few times: T1 Noble, T2 Wild Defiance, T3 attack with Inkmoth, Berserk for 10 with counter backup. It's nice because you are only investing a Berserk in the attempt, everything else is a permanent.

    If you are looking for a new counter to fight removal, I recommend Dispel. In testing it has been surprisingly good as a hard counter for bolt/StP/counters.

    Jitte is bad news. I have probably lost more games to Jitte than any other single card. My current way of fighting it is Krosan Grip/Pithing Needle in SB, and sometimes Tower of the Magistrate in the main or SB.

  16. #56
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    UR cruise is a tough matchup since they carry forked bolts and can interact with our pumps via counterspells and lightning bolts.
    or i should say any deck that carries forked bolts will be tough... some RUGdelver builts carries em too.

    Maverick is a positive matchup for us, sfm-jitte is really slow for them, i always counter thalia, when i dont have early nobles coz it makes it harder for our invi/berserk combo to connect early.. sideboards we have help via krosan grips..im not running stifles here anymore, just make sure u save some vines for their own crits upon equipping, it'll save u time to go ftw next turn.. eot inkmoths via croprots are key here too.
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  17. #57

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
    4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
    What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
    Did anyone tryed tower of the magistrate for jitte ?
    The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?

    3 Tropical Island
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Pendelhaven
    2 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus

    4 Mental Note
    4 Thought Scour
    3 Force of Will
    4 Invigorate
    4 Become Immense
    4 Treasure Cruise

    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Blighted Agent
    4 Vines of Vastwood
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Crop Rotation


    SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Envelop
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 Wasteland
    SB: 2 Swan Song
    SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
    SB: 1 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

  18. #58
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    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
    4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
    What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
    Did anyone tryed tower of the magistrate for jitte ?
    The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?

    3 Tropical Island
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Pendelhaven
    2 Forest
    4 Inkmoth Nexus

    4 Mental Note
    4 Thought Scour
    3 Force of Will
    4 Invigorate
    4 Become Immense
    4 Treasure Cruise

    4 Glistener Elf
    4 Blighted Agent
    4 Vines of Vastwood
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Crop Rotation


    SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Envelop
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 Wasteland
    SB: 2 Swan Song
    SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
    SB: 1 Krosan Grip
    SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    Short Answer: Your list confuses me.

    Long Answer: This list seems bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    Hi I have been testing a build with 4 thought scour and 4 mental note so that I can play
    4 TC and 4 become immense main and find this configuration awesome.
    There's a lot wrong with this. Instead of dazes and spell pierces, you're effectively running 8 copies of a card that say "Cycle: U". Yeah, they're fantastic for powering out your strong delve cards, but you're basically forfeiting your turns 1-3 in order to set up for more cards to draw. Even with these accelerants, you're still limited by the number of delve cards you can cast. At best, you're dumping 3-4 cards in the yard every turn, so your first TC is on turn 3, followed by another one on turn 5-6. Furthermore, if you somehow have time to deploy threats throughout all of this you won't have any way to protect them unless you use your pumps defensively or 2 for 1 yourself with FoW. This doesn't take into account any other must-counter cards played, such as lock pieces or targeted disruption for the Treasure Cruises that your list is heavily depending on, so I don't really see you being able to fend off any reasonable form of early aggression.

    There's also no reason to be running so many delve cards. Even the greediest delve decks in the format only play 4 copies of Treasure Cruise. Coupling that with 4 copies of Become Immense is far too taxing on your resources, you're going to lose a lot of games with un-castable delve cards sitting in your hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    What do you run in side ? What's the classic configuration ?
    Look at some old Tom Ross sideboards for ideas. I'd strongly recommend cutting the faerie macabres, they just don't do enough for the slots they take up. Seal of primordium seems like a strange choice, it's a sorcery speed naturalize that your opponents can play around. In a field full of brainstorms, telegraphing plays is really weak, as it lets your opponent shuffle away irrelevant cards in favor of stronger options. Envelop is also strange, especially considering your list runs no spell pierces, which are just as reliable in the early game and can hit a far wider range of targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    The Beb/hydroblast are really worth ? I mean they basically counter one removal for our creature ?
    They also trade out Sneak Attacks, Blood Moon permanents, Monastery Swiftspears, and opposing Red Blasts. Yes, they're most often one for ones, but BEB and Hydroblast counter very high priority targets. People have been playing upwards of 3-4 copies to fight U/R Delver and Jeskai Stoneblade/Combo heavy metas, it's always just a meta call.

  19. #59

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Yeah the side is a mess, though I think envelop is better against combo than spell pierce (show and tell Infernal Tutor Natural Order mostly) where they can play around your pierce, maybe I could play pierce maindeck in the Fow spot cause mental note and thought scour are instant.
    Seal of primordium is better than naturalize, mostly against counterbalance if you resolve it you are fine by example same thing for trinisphere and you don't need to keep 1G open against jitte/batterskul.
    I don't like nature's claim cause it doesn't answer chalice of the void.
    The faerie macabre should be surgical. Did anyone tryied marrow shards ? For all these YP.deck and also death and taxes ?


    TC can be casted on turn two. This list is closer to jeskai's ascendency list from sam black where he plays 8 thought scour and 6 delve spells and that has been awesome.
    I haven't had problem to cast my delve spells.

  20. #60

    Re: [Primer/Deck] U/G Infect

    Has anyone tried some teferi's response in the side? Seems good with inkmoth and can do great against wasteland/port strategies for keeping inkmoth out of business....

    And then it helps refill your hand!

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