Gold Digger [UWr Delve Control]

[klaus]

Hey peeps,

so Carsten did it again and coined an archetype for us to smash face with.
For those of you who haven't read the related SCG article yet, here you go:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html

I gotta admit I called bullshit on his prediction that Dig Through Time & Treasure Cruise (hence DTT & TC) would be format warping, back when they were spoiled. My conversion began when I jammed 2 copies of DTT in my Miracles list some weeks ago. Even though, it didn't actually feel like a revelation, I was like:


After giving Gold Digger a shot, I soon stumbled across a couple of choices that would need to be tweaked to fit my play style, but I felt its mighty potential right from the start. And now I'm like:


To make a long story short: here's my current weapon of choice:

CQ:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divning Top

C/A:
4 DTT
3 Jace

REMOVAL:
4 STP
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
1 EE

COUNTER SUITE:
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Charm

"FINISH HIM!"
1 Entreat the Angels

LAND:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

SB:
3 Vendilion Clique
2 REB
2 Pyroclasm ------------ (yes, I don't enjoy losing against Aggro)
1 Baneslayer Angel (despite being a naysayer for BSA in the MD, I consider him a valuable SB card, as people will board out STPs agains us)
1 Wear / Tear
3 CB
1 Top (testing this atm)
2 RiP [!] -----------------(the times that you need it most DTT & TC are rather weak anyway: Dredge, Reanimator, other GY-based Combo.decs, Loam.dec (Cage is not good here, and it's not needed against Elves)

Stuff that I changed from Carsten's initial iteration:
Fire/Ice --> Bolt: cheaper + handles bigger threats and is capable of taking out Jaces, I'd actually love to find room for #2, doesn't look like I'll succeed though
Spell Pierce --> Flusterstorm: better at pushing through your own and fighting opposing Delves, better against Combo, also: MD blasts handle Jaces
EE #2 --> Supreme Verdict #2: just better at what EE is used to most of the time
Academy Ruins --> Mountain/Volc#3: with only 20 ana sources, I actually want them to be all colored, plus with only one EE it's not justified
2 Misdirection --> Preordain #2 + Top: in testing I was literally never happy to see Misdirection. Pitching a cantrip also felt meh, as this makes Delve spells considerably weaker, plus more card filtering is gravy for this deck.
SFM + Skull --> 2 EtA: more or less dodges standard creature hate most decks pack and SFM suffers from, plus it's a one-card combo exactly fitting the needs of the archetype by enabling us to close the game in one turn, once we've established full control.


What's your take on this archetype?

---
PS: Honorable mention: Lambert101 posted a list that shares many traits with this one. I started posting in his thread but as my brew evolved further away from the OP, I decided to start ma own thang. Big up for your stuff though Lambert!

[lambert101]

Thanks for the credit. I honestly came to this idea by looking at miracles and said this deck likes to control the stack. I would rather control the board state and that means more and more by killing creatures or attacking the land base for delver decks. If the meta was more combo heavy I might jump on board with your plan. Any help with the board would be awesome as my combo match-ups are terrible.

[klaus]

I'm still very impressed by the raw power of this beast.
Being hooked on UWx Control ever since the beginnings of Landstill, I gotta say this definitely is the most powerful Legacy Control deck I've ever piloted, including all incarnations of Miracles. Of course this is mainly due to DTT & TC, but still..

Some further insights I got over the weekend:

* 5 seems to be the correct number for Delve spells: 6 increases the chance to got them stranded early on quite a bit, plus finding one when you want to is easy with 1000 cantrips
* 3 DTT & 2 TC also feel about right - Gold Digger offers so much card filtering that DTT's CQ aspect isn't actually as crucial, since you'll find what you need anyway, while TC nets you that extra card at a better casting cost. Interestingly enough I also find myself casting DTT during my turn quite frequently.
* very happy with MD Flusterstorm (over Pierce), as pushing through AND countering DTT/TC has become paramount and Flusterstorm simply rocks at this. One of the main arguments in favor of Spell Pierce is its ability to counter Jace, however MD Pyroblasts mitigate this, especially with 1000 cantrips to find them
* very happy with the 1-of Top even though it might seem random - it does work nicely alongside 13 shuffle effects (not counting DTT) and of course supports the EtA kill.
* Changed Preordain #2 to Bolt #2. As mentioned, being able to kill DRS immediately is essential. In the face of Delve.dec's in popularity I expect to see more DRSs too. (as an aside: Scavenging Ooze, Spirit of the Labyrinth & Bojuka Bog will also likely regain popularity)
* still undecided about Mountain VS. Volcanic Island #3

[apple713]

maybe I'm not getting it, why is this deck good? it has great drawing capabilities but it doesn't really do anything with them? 11 counterspells, but nothing like counterbalance to really gain significant advantage. Your threat count is extremely low. if you run into a chains of mephistopheles, or more likely a spirit of the labrynth your hozed....

[Finn]

Yeah, this can't possibly be the final version of this deck. Not only is it ugly (1 Top), but exists solely as a medium for delve cards to power a pure control deck. Treasure Cruise does not fit particularly well in any pure control deck with so many reactive cards. TC is not quite Ancestral Recall. We are all still figuring out how to use it best. Of course Carsten went with what he knows best; we would all do the same. But this ain't it.

It might feel good compared to what has come before it, but that is only because you are not comparing it to all the other decks of today getting huge card advantage from delve and doing better things with that advantage than this deck does. Until these cards get banned, the name of the game is whizzing through your library with a clear goal.

[MrGlantz]

I haven't played these UWx control decks before, but I'd imagine that if you really wanted to abuse Dig Through Time and play an oldschool style list I'd take a lot of inspiration from the Vintage UW Angels decks that placed earlier this year and last year. They're consistent, resilient, and not greedy at all which means you may be less likely to be punished. I don't know if the raw power is quite up to where you want to be, but its a starting point.

Examples:

// Creatures (12)
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth

// Control Spells (15)
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
1 Disenchant
3 Mental Misstep
1 Spell Snare

// Draw Spells (8)
4 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

// Mana (25)
5 Moxen
3 SoLoCrypt
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Karakas
3 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls

Obviously that's a vintage deck and not a legacy one, but I wouldn't be surprised if the best finishers for a list like this is Cliques and Restos. They're efficient, playable at instant speed, and can close out games quickly when its time. Plus they seem to work well with all the card advantage and ability to quickly filter through the deck.

I guess there is also some merit to playing Spirit of the Labrynth along with "Card Draw" that doesn't get hosed like Dig Through Time, Fact or Fiction, etc. That needs further testing and it may not be worth going down that rabbit hole in all honesty.

[klaus]

For all the nay sayers: just give it shot!

One crucial suggestion while piloting Gold Digger:
Other than with basically any other Control deck, do not play your spells conservatively, instead fire away with what you got. Bolting that Nettle Sentinel, Brainstorming without a fetch out, Counterspelling an opposing Ponder - all these things become viable in the face of DTT & TC. You'll refill your hand sooner and just be able to handle anything they throw at you.
Coming from conservative Control decks that teach you to hold back your spells as a long as possible to max out their impact, I had to learn to be quick on the trigger and just shoot at their semi-relevant stuff too.

@Apple713:
You are right about Gold Digger boasting very few threats. However testing showed, you just don't need more. I don't know any deck out there that's clearly better at finding stuff without actual tutors. The game plan is simple: filter your draws, handle whatever they throw at you, land a Jace, continue doing your thing until they have no board and no cards in hand, cast EtA with triple counter backup, close the game. You'd be surprised too how many games are comfortably won by Jace's ultimate.

I always thought CB + Top was the best way to prevent opponent's from resolving stuff. Well that was before I sat there with FoW, Pyroblast, CS and Flusterstorm in hand and the means to conveniently refill my hand after a counter battle showdown. Someone said it nicely in the Murica Control thread: being able to control the stack has become more important than ever.

@Finn: that lone Top is anything else than random. It's merely card filter #16 and assists the EtA kill as an additional bonus. Anymore Tops would fight over cantrip slots which are dearly needed to support 5 Delve spells. Nevertheless, I'm always happy to see it. Also TC is the closest Legacy will ever get to Ancestral Recall - I guarantee it.

[alphastryk]

(copying my post from the article thread)

I played a version of this in Legacy at Eternal Weekend a few days ago and the shell is just extremely powerful. I tried to get cute in that tournament and splash a 4th color in the board, but the core was really good though. I may write up more when I get a chance.

After some work on Sunday after I bricked out of Vintage to tune the deck to beat UR delver, I wanted to share the list we'd gotten to:


3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Academy Ruins

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Moat

4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Pyroblast
3 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Treasure Cruise
4 Dig Through Time

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Snapcaster Mage

Sideboard:
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Mood
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wear // Tear
1 Hydroblast
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle


Some extra thoughts:

Stoneforge -> Batterskull was acceptable but clunky so I've moved away from it as a win condition.
I don't think you want any Miracles or Tops in the deck, you just want enough finishers to not lose and you need all of your cantrips to fuel your velocity / delve spells.
It definitely feels odd to just jam things out there, but recovering cards is just so easy.
You should never play less than 4 DTT. I'd play 5 or 6 if I could.
The second Cruise became the second Preordain to deal with needing more early cantrips against mana disruption.

[Jizz]

Hello alphastryk,

I like your list and I'd like to discuss some points :

. I find it quite light vs Combo, particularly vs Storm pre and postboard. I know that playing cheap counterspells like flusterstorm or pierce can feel clunky at time in a control deck without cb, but it might be necessary, just for these match ups, while beeing useful vs Stifle.decks. Burn seems also difficult as it is.

. The Moat MD synergies well with baneslayer but I find the card quite weak in the meta : costs 4 and can be countered vs UR Delver ; Elves has now Reclamation sage to answer it ; the printings of council's judgment and Delve spells make the spell weaker. I find Supreme verdict better.

. I love the second plains MD. I would play the 4th island over the 3rd tundra in this case. But aren't 21 lands too heavy ? What about moving the second plains to the sideboard (I considered it in a sfm/verdict build) ? I also think that the ratio 4 DTT/1 TC/2 Preordain/4 Ponder /4 BS is the right one.

. Baneslayer angel instead of Sfm/Batterskull. This is very interesting. It frees needed slots in the main deck, which is very nice, but, while baneslayer is better vs opposing batterskull, stifle, delver, artifact removals, goyf, it's significantly weaker against swords, lili, council's judgment. You also loose the nice interaction between Academy ruins and Batterskull. Sfm is also better vs Combo. But the real question is : is Baneslayer better than batterskull when Jace isn't likely to be our win con ?
Another outcome is to remove 1 Jace for 1 Tnn and keep the sfm package. I've been testing it and it turns out to be very strong.

. As for the sideboard, I think that you need 2 Reb at least. As said above, the combo match up is not easy, especially when you have to take blood moon postboard to deal with boseiju. 3 Cliques are really needed.
I think that Cage is quite bad here, because the advantage it provides vs elves is somewhat neglected by EE. I also hate having Snap md + Cage in the sb (even with 1 of each). With a light sb plan vs Dredge, I chose 2 Surgical in these slots, which can deal with punishing fire/Loam and is better vs Storm/Reanimator.
Pithing needle + Hydroblast is maybe a bit redundant, since Needle main targets are Sneak attack, Karakas, Eye of Ugin, Thespian stage.


EDIT : only 58 cards in your MD

[goodolrock]

3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Academy Ruins

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Moat

4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Pyroblast
3 Counterspell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Treasure Cruise
4 Dig Through Time

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Snapcaster Mage

This list looks like a spiritual successor to The Deck, circa '96 (baneslayer taking the place of Serra Angel, down to 1 moat, etc).

What do you think? Too much of a reach? IMO it's a better name than Gold Digger (and way better than some of the other names we kicked around - "Moator Boat", "Can You Dig It?" :P)

[klaus]

.

Thanks for your input. Appreciate it!

I like to +1 Jizz on his point about Moat, Flusterstorm and Baneslayer Angel and encourage you to test 2 MD Supreme Verdicts & 2 EtAs.

While Verdict seems like a no-brainer to me, I admit that EtA appears random/clunky at first sight.
Let's compare it to Baneslayer though:
Pros:
* Life link (feel free to add more)

Cons:
* very fragile: dies to STP is enough for me to exclude her tbh (I'd go with TNN despite its lower impact)
* not a wall when you're fighting Swarm Aggro
* takes several turns to close a game
* casting cost (see below)

ETA:
Pros:
* virtually dodges spot removal
* wall against Swarm Aggro
* usually takes one turn to close a game
* better against Planeswalkers (Jace bounces BSA all day and Lili just kills her)
* casting cost: can be cast for 3 if need be

Cons:
* miracle-dependent - however timing it with all those cantrips is a walk in the park
* dies to EE (though STP, CJ and Lili are much wider spread)

[alphastryk]

Appreciate the input guys. I did leave out 2 Spell Pierce that are maindeck, which I've now fixed. sorry for any confusion there.

As I noted above, this is tuned to beat the UR Delver / Cruise deck which was so prevalent at Eternal Weekend. Having a lifelink guy was incredible relevant for that.

While it may seem like Baneslayer is easy to kill, that's actually only true for white decks and Liliana decks - most of which have limited other answers. (Bug Delver for example has exactly 2 answers in its Lilis). The white decks also tend to be really soft to Jace - and this deck is an even better Jace deck than Miracles. Having a man with lifelink is really helpful against red delver decks & other aggro too, allowing you to get out of low life situations or even race.

If your game plan is working, you will never need to cast BSA without the ability to protect it from removal. Opposing decks will rarely if ever resolve planeswalkers against you given all the counterspells.

The list is definitely weak to combo though. I had tried splashing Slaughter Games for that in Legacy champs, but I think the 4th color splash is a suspect solution and it still doesn't help you close out games.

The plan against swarm aggro is to quickly resolve Moat which many of them can never get past. This probably will not work against elves, I have not had a chance to test that yet.

Swapping the artifact grave hate for 2 Surgicals seems fine, this list is definitely weak to things like Loam / PFire and that would help.

It definitely does look like 'The Deck' from 96/97 and we were jokingly calling this list 'The Deck v2' in testing.

[klaus]

Minor update:
I love how basically everyone I meet online underestimates this archetype and the amount of rage quitters is quite high as well :)

[goodolrock]

Tested alphastryk's list a little last night/this morning online. A few observations:

matchups: dredge, stoneblade, rug delver, goblins, burn, ur delver

Dredge was pretty miserable - I feel like an E tutor would go a long way in the side, given how many side options are art/enc. I might try RiP over crypt, siding out some of the delve. With all the cantripping, I can get to 8 lands pretty easily. Plus in matches where you want RiP it seems like it's worth the sacrifice.

Goblins - resolved a moat each game. Would have been straight up GG, but he had kiki-jiki with goblin sharpshooter & the goblin that can bolt you every turn. Also, he had Krenko and we found out MTGO has a hard cap on the number of permanents you're allowed to have on the board (looked like somewhere between 100 and 200, didn't count. I'm assuming it was 128.) - he filled up on tokens and couldn't kiki jiki anymore. :D

Stoneblade - Moat answered batterskull & TNN, I was able to ignore his traditional threats and save countermagic for locking him out. Had the option to kill with either baneslayer or jace.

Rug delver - would have been fine, but i played a StP into a spell pierce when I didn't need to and got beat over the head with a 'goyf. oops.

Burn - Took some bolts to the face, countered the important things, got free lands off of guides before StPing, then I resolved Moat and Baneslayer. Easy mode.

UR delver - I did like the Moat - i was able to draw it each game, so I was able to concentrate StPs on delvers. Pyroclasm (supreme verdict, to a lesser extent) went a long way as well. Still, went down to low life each game. Almost lost the match (might have, still - opponent lost to time with 12 min still on my clock).

I've got it in my MTGO library as "The Deck"; I think that's the name I'm going to go with, hopefully it (or some permutation) sticks.

[Zllig]

This is looking pretty powerful, can't wait to try it out on Friday. I'm not sold on Baneslayer Angel since she can be answered pretty easily, I'll probably just run Keranos instead since I'm biased on how good he is.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/249095#online
Is what I was consider to be the modern form of this deck, I wonder if there is merit in switching over to the Elixir/Memory's Journey win con where we just loop the best cards as our deck and use Cruise and Dig to exile the bricks. Probably won't work, but it might be worth looking at. Plus if we splash for Memory's Journey we can get that Explosive up to 4.

I sure wish I had a Moat now, I might fit a Wear//Tear into the maindeck somewhere to really turn this into The Deck.

[alphastryk]

Here's what I'm going to be sleeving up for my local weekly tomorrow, will let you guys know how that goes.


3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Academy Ruins

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Moat

4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Pyroblast
3 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Treasure Cruise
4 Dig Through Time

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Snapcaster Mage

Sideboard:
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Mood
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear
1 Hydroblast
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle

[klaus]

..looking forward!

[alphastryk]

Unfortunately I don't feel like I learned much this week - really strange metagame (mud, multiple 4x Chains of Mephistopheles decks, mirror, some guy I've never seen before on an awful RG brew) and I only played against one 'internet' deck.

I lost a close round 1 to Deathblade when I couldn't find a second white source to pin his TNN behind the Moat. Felt favored the whole match, would need to play a lot more to know if I could have done things differently to win this match.
I won the pseudo-mirror in round 2 by drawing less blanks in game 1.

I lost round 3 to quad Chains of Mephistopheles pox (seemed completely unwinnable)

I then got to make myself feel better by beating up on a bad RG orcish lumberjack brew.

I'll be sticking with this list most likely for the GenCon trials at GP Nashville this weekend. Will post another update after that.

[klaus]

Unfortunately I don't feel like I learned much this week - really strange metagame (mud, multiple 4x Chains of Mephistopheles decks, mirror, some guy I've never seen before on an awful RG brew) and I only played against one 'internet' deck.

I lost a close round 1 to Deathblade when I couldn't find a second white source to pin his TNN behind the Moat. Felt favored the whole match, would need to play a lot more to know if I could have done things differently to win this match.
I won the pseudo-mirror in round 2 by drawing less blanks in game 1.

I lost round 3 to quad Chains of Mephistopheles pox (seemed completely unwinnable)

I then got to make myself feel better by beating up on a bad RG orcish lumberjack brew.

I'll be sticking with this list most likely for the GenCon trials at GP Nashville this weekend. Will post another update after that.

Where do you play?
I am on mws.games currently and 50% of my opponents with "competitive/serious" in the game description actually bring tier decks + are rather skilled.

[Tcpdump]

Hi, i'm play a similar version, with walker, not the best but thought may aport with fresh ideas:
walker.dec, Built with Decked Builder
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/14591


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