Daretti Goblin Welder (Da-Welder)

[apple713]

Ugin is highly highly likely to be the next colorless planeswalker this block (reforged) with a Ghostfire attached to it and perhaps a time walk. Ugin is powerful enough to keep emrakul at bay so im expecting power creep. I suspect something of a mix between nicol bolas and karn liberated in terms of power.

@Barbarian ring: Perhaps a little too ambitious. The thought was, if you're filling the yard you might as well use barbarian ring to get rid of delvers and such. I think this works best if you also run back in UR

If we are worried about creatures at the start we can actually run Ensnaring bridge with great success because we should be dumping our hands fast, and when we need to attack we can either weld / daretti it away. This almost seems like an auto include from a defense standpoint. I know that cloudpost / 12post decks are running elephant grass to buy time and this would be our equivalent.

Maybe buying time isn't what we need tho, really we just need to test.

I'm mainly concerned with aggro / control / tempo

miracles, rug, and D&T would probably be the top 3 decks id want to test against at the start.

Could this become a B/R or Grixis version using entomb and other reanimation effects? It seems like it could work.
T1- Volcanic Island, tap, Goblin Welder
T2-Swamp, Entomb, tap Goblin Welder, bring back x artifact from the grave, spell pierce in hand.

Now, this wont happen all the time, but its not a Magical Christmas Land scenario either.

I like the idea, but this is a very different deck than others are discussing. do you have a list i can post in the OP for reference?

you can use this to poach some ideas.

[jamis]

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

[aCatNamedBootsy]

Would Izzet Signet be worthy of consideration for any of the Variants with blue? I figure since Dimir Signet sees play in the Tezzerator decks it might be a worthy inclusion here (although they also have Talisman of Dominance as well. Maybe going Grixis is a possibility?).

[LIKEABOSS]

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

Just curious, why do you think Moltensteel Dragon is that good? Compared to the rest of the big, bomby artifacts out there, I feel like Moltensteel Dragon wouldn't really help us as much as, say, Sundering Titan.

Could Platinum Emporium see play here? Platinum Angel?

[bruizar]

Against RUG / UR Delver: I'd probably want to side in Taurean Mauler (with cavern of souls) to combat Young Pyromancer and Monastery Swiftspear while also punishing their counters and cantrips with a decent clock that they cannot remove with Lightning Bolt (unless that's the first spell they play after you resolve taurean mauler. It's also a good choice because they will board in artifact hate. Chalice of the Void also plays a crucial role here, as well as Red Elemental Blast (Could be Burnout if afraid of chalice issues). There is also Pyrokinesis and Whipflare that can play a role in this match.

Miracles: I like Godo because he is immune to Swords to Plowshares, Jace and to some extent Terminus (Batterskull will remain). Lantern of Insight can counter Entreat the Angels (or Terminus) by shuffling away the miracle trigger. This matchup probably needs work because it can be hard to resolve bigger threats against control. Pithing Needle needs to be answered.

@Jamis: I play Moltensteel Dragon in Godo MUD. It's a great clock. It really depends on the direction of the list (Full on control/prison, prison stompy or stompy with artifact recursion)

[bruizar]

Just curious, why do you think Moltensteel Dragon is that good? Compared to the rest of the big, bomby artifacts out there, I feel like Moltensteel Dragon wouldn't really help us as much as, say, Sundering Titan.

Could Platinum Emporium see play here? Platinum Angel?

Moltensteel Dragon is lethal on the second attack 99% of the time. In practice, it's a 2 turn clock disguised as a shitty dragon.

[rufus]

daretti alone or with welder?

I was thinking with chalice, and no welder, but I won't derail things further.

[apple713]

I was thinking with chalice, and no welder, but I won't derail things further.

i included a sample list in the OP of daretti integrated into stompy, but not focusing on welder and Daretti would defeat the point of this deck / thread. It sounds like what you are wanting is to simply add daretti to dragon stompy which could be addressed in their thread

this thread should focus on abusing the synergy and consistency created by Goblin welder and Daretti.

[LIKEABOSS]

Moltensteel Dragon is lethal on the second attack 99% of the time. In practice, it's a 2 turn clock disguised as a shitty dragon.

Alright, just wondering.

Seems like a great deck!

[bruizar]

Here's yet _ANOTHER_ direction this Doretti could go. So many options..

Legacy Tools & Tubbies

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Mana Rocks [05]
3 Talisman of Impulse
2 Gruul Signet

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind / Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan / Platinum Angel
1 Reclamation Sage

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge


Single card discussion:

Garruk Relentless:
Garruk deals with creatures
Garruk makes blockers
Garruk makes permanents for Tangle Wire
Garruk flips into semi-survival of the fittest mode, fueling the yard and tutoring for silver bullets



Sylvan Library
Provides card quality and card quantity in the 2-CC slot, avoiding Chalice of the Void's interference. Sylvan Library together with Doretti, Scrap Savant let you draw 5 cards in a single turn, of which 2 bombs can be discarded. Wurmcoil Engine and Sphinx of the Steel Wind are there to provide a good clock and sustained fuel for Sylvan Library

Fauna Shaman
Helps get Wurmcoil Engine and other bombs in the graveyard, and tutors for extra Fauna Shaman's, Welders or sideboard silver-bullets

Goblin Welder
Needs no introduction. Cavern of Souls helps dodge Chalice of the Void on one

Tangle Wire
Helps slow the game down so that planeswalkers can ramp

Contagion Engine
Removes creatures, ramps planeswalkers and locks the game out with Tangle Wire

Ensnaring Bridge
Serves as early game protection. Weld this out for a Wurmcoil Engine or other bomb

Sphinx of the Steel Wind
When you need a good clock with lifelink, evasion, and are trying to dodge artifact removal, weld this

Inkwell Leviathan
When you're facing targeted removal, you can use Inkwell Leviathan. Not that good because Terminus gets rid of it.

Sundering Titan
Some people don't like this card, I do. Even if this catches a plowshares, the damage is already done most of the time. The life gain from plowshares ensures you have at least an extra turn or two to find a new bomb.

Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows
Good mana sink in your upkeep when you've got Tangle Wire out. Controls the board. Answers Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer and all the other usual suspects. Also serves as a card advantage engine with Doretti in play.

Wurmcoil Engine
The main beatstick. Trades nicely with Goblin Welder, Doretti and Garruk. Garruk and Fauna Shaman can tutor it.

Reclamation Sage
Answers Pithing Needle or the occasional Counterbalance or something from imperial painter. Also deals with Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus.

Mana rocks
Accelerate and later provide welding fodder

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Maybe it doesn't make the cut, but I think Moltensteel Dragon could be a consideration.

Myr Battlesphere is better

[JanoschEausH]

Here's yet _ANOTHER_ direction this Doretti could go. So many options..

Legacy Tools & Tubbies

Land [21]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Mountain
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Mana Rocks [05]
2 Talisman of Impulse
3 Gruul Signet

Enchantments [02]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [06]
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Garruk Relentless / Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
Instants [03]
3 Punishing Fire

Bombs [01]
1 Contagion Engine

Creatures [12]
3 Fauna Shaman
3 Goblin Welder
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind / Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

Disruption [10]
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge

I would consider playing more Talisman of Impulse than Gruul Signet, since there are no cards that have GR in their casting cost.

[bruizar]

I would consider playing more Talisman of Impulse than Gruul Signet, since there are no cards that have GR in their casting cost.

Good point. Lightning edited.

[Memories of the Time]

I'm more on a thing like
3 p. Fire
3-4 thirst
3-4 cruise
4 Chalice
3 dack fayden
3-4 Daretti
2 loam
3-4 b wish
3-4 force of will
24 lands+4 Mox Diamond
Intu, mindslaver, wurmcoil, e.e, liquidmetal, e. Bridge and so on.

[Gheizen64]

This is a list i'm playing right now of Godo MUD:


Taxes:
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void

Equipment engine:
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Batterskull
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Mana:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
2 Wasteland
2 Mox Diamond
2 Boros Garrison
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Boros Signet

SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 4 Wear // Tear
SB: 4 Sudden Shock


I'm not sure where i could play Daretti.
Some explanations:

I've found Batterskull to be better than Wurmcoil because:
- costing 1 less is crucial when you need the creature to gain life
- vigilance is relevant
- you can equip other creatures, especially relevant with Godo, + later on with postmana you can easily bounce and replay it and equip etc...
- SFM + godo tutor for it, whereas this isn't true of Wurmcoil

Godo is actually really good and i didn't think much of it. Untapping with it it's game with double attack phase. Greaves especially allowyou to win from nowhere with it.

Postmana base instead of standard. Basically Glimmerpost is a really good card, and plus, with Vesuva, Garrison and crucible you can easily just gain tons of life with it. I never liked traitors in the deck, even with Crucible. Honestly, i thought crucible and Moxen would've left the deck soon after some testing, but i've found a nice sinergy of mox + garrison, plus the crucible wastelock and the ability to recicle Posts won me a lot of games until now. Signet instead of Monolith is a concession for the colored mana i need in the deck, and in general with this curve you don't really need to curve into monsters T2-T3, but more like replay batterskulls and equips ad infinitum.
The most ? slots of the deck right now imho are Lodestone and Ajani. Lodestone is just too fragile in this format, while Ajani has been decent for now, but i found hardly uses for its +1. Daretti could very well go in either slot, probably Lodestone first.

For the SB, i've started playingsudden shock as an uncounterable way to deal with Swiftspears, Pyromancers (good because he can't create tokens in resp) and elves creatures (and they can't bounce to hand in resp).

EDIT: i like the RG approach by Bruizar a lot. If Survival ever get unbanned, jump on it, old TnT style at its finest.

[jafar]

Some ideas

I would suggest the RED STAX route.

Blood moon ftw.

Add Solemn simulacrum (more draw, more ramp) and some Squees (1/2) for profit.

Squee could be food for smokestacks too.

Add some big robots and GG

Bye

[Cire]

There are a lot of ways this deck can go. . . for example this is what I'm currently testing.

7 2 mana land.
13 Lands

4 Welder
2 Wormcoil engine

3 Daretti
4 Dack

3 Talisman of Indulgence
4 Transmute
3 Talisman of Progress
4 Intuition
4 Faithless Looting
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Foundry
2 Liquidmetal coating.

The idea is that you have 3 main lines of play.

1st – land
2nd – Land – 2 mana accel
3rd – 2 mana land - Dack + liquid/transmute

1st – land
2nd – 2 mana land – Loot – Discard Welder Target
3rd – land – Daretti and Goblin Welder ( a turn earlier).

1st – land
2nd – 2 mana land – Loot – sword of the meek
3 rd – land – Trasmute/foundry

I would love to find room for FOW or traditional MUD cards like moon/chalice or even mash in 8TEZZ with some tezz/jace and some more artifacts.

[bruizar]

I've found Batterskull to be better than Wurmcoil because:
- costing 1 less is crucial when you need the creature to gain life
- vigilance is relevant

- SFM + godo tutor for it, whereas this isn't true of Wurmcoil

Godo is actually really good and i didn't think much of it. Untapping with it it's game with double attack phase. Greaves especially allow you to win from nowhere with it.

I agree with this. I used the exact same equipment package. Wurmcoil obviously gets a lot better when you can weld him, but if you can support Godo, he's a real beating. The mana-cost difference was the reason I also added Moltensteel Dragon in my earlier builds. Godo Mud was an attempt to shave off the average converted mana cost of the deck, since MUD usually dies to itself, rather than to its opponent. Godo MUD also came into being as a way to deal with Swords to Plowshares and Jace, the Mindsculptor (these both destroy your mana investment if you're playing wurmcoil engine). The major downside of Batterskull is that it folds to Spell Pierce.

Basically Glimmerpost is a really good card, and plus, with Vesuva, Garrison and crucible you can easily just gain tons of life with it. I never liked traitors in the deck, even with Crucible. Honestly, i thought crucible and Moxen would've left the deck soon after some testing, but i've found a nice sinergy of mox + garrison, plus the crucible wastelock and the ability to recicle Posts won me a lot of games until now.

Man.. Boros Garrison with Glimmerpost / Vesuva is sweet. How did that go in testing? Did bouncing and renaming Cavern of Souls come up?

For the SB, i've started playingsudden shock as an uncounterable way to deal with Swiftspears, Pyromancers (good because he can't create tokens in resp) and elves creatures (and they can't bounce to hand in resp).

I'm also big on Sudden Shock right now. If you're careful with passing priority, you can remove Deathrite Shaman before it can eat a robot from your yard (If you go for welder walker).

Lodestone Golem isn't cutting it right now, mostly because of Lightning Bolts everywhere.

How are the Wear // Tear's for you? Does using both sides at the same time ever come up?

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Mox Diamond - I might have to bite the bullet to get a set seems much better than Petal. Also the discarded land works with Treasure Cruise.

If you play Dack Fayden I don't think you want to really play Ancient Tomb and Traitors since they don't accelerate Dack.

[Cire]

Yeah but you need it for early Intuition's or Early Daretti. However, you are right - the 1st line of play in my post is not playable since you only produce 2CCC instead of the 1CCCC you need. I don't really have a solution for that yet - but I'll tinker around with that list for a while. Again the list is really just Welder-Control/Dack+Liquid/Thopter+Sword. Something about those elements makes sense for me, but i'm not entirely sure whether they can actually fit all together.