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Thread: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

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    Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)




    The name

    Green stompy isnít that relevant anymore because of all the splashes, and beast stompy is a bit excessive with just six beasts. I named it sylvan plug because I created it with the help of Tristan Polzl just when the ďsculptureĒ on the picture was presented in Paris and it made me think of the deck.
    If people find a better name (GB Prison ? Rest of the world versus blue ?) Iíll probably change it as I donít like non-descriptive names. Though one can argue ďSylvan plugĒ being pretty well descriptive of what the deck does.

    The idea

    Two weeks ago I was discussing with Tristan about how good choke would be main deck right now as the meta is so blue, and how more impactful it would be than red elemental blast which already showed up in several non painter decks main (mainly miracles). The problem was not running blue ourselves. After thinking about playing a GUx deck with non island blue lands we decided to make it simple and play a stompy shell that hates even more against cantrips and counters.
    Since the list has been spoiled a few days ago I figured Iíd share it with people, especially those going to the GP and wanting to hate out for the top tables.

    The deck

    First list presented in the thread after two weeks of testing :
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wooded Foothills
    5 Forest
    3 Bayou
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Swamp
    1 Wasteland

    3 Sylvan Library
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Rolling Spoil
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Choke

    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Courser of Kruphix
    4 Obstinate Baloth
    2 Thragtusk
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Kalonian Hydra
    3 Deathrite Shaman


    Sideboard :
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Mountain
    3 Ruination
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Stingerfling Spider
    1 Dawnstrider
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Massacre
    1 Savannah
    1 Toxic Deluge


    Accels :

    At first we ran a classic 6-7 sol lands + mox chrome and elvish spirit guide. All of their numbers were quickly reduced, reduced again, and finally completely disappeared for some.
    First because you donít want to turn one as many things as in other stompy shells, you donít play moon effects or suppression field to go along chalice and trinisphere. There is choke but that is not really a turn one spell. Second when playing our first versions the most difficult decks to face where blue stoneforge decks which were very good at grinding us out. I quickly identified that siding out the card disadvantage accelerators was the right call despite being a bit slower was a handicap. This is how I decided to try to run one and then up to 3 deathrite shaman.
    Running them alongside chalices will probably the most controversial and debated choice in this deck. What if you draw them with a chalice at one on the table ? Well first drawing a mox or an elvish spirit guide wonít do a lot either in general. And second with the chalice in play you should be in a great shape. Being able to play your key lock elements daze proof or one turn earlier without losing cards is a great thing. Even when your opponent kills your turn one deathrite shaman with a bolt before you play turn two chalice you should be happy to screw his turn one or two by forcing his play. If you didnít play shaman maybe he would have a delver in play or maybe the cantrip he would have played would have granted him some free countermagic for chalice.
    For people still planning on testing with turn 0 accels my last configuration before shamans was 2 chrome mox, 2 ESG, 2 gemstone caverns. That split limits the disadvantages of each and caverns are nice to have with courser. I maintain that running a few deathrites is the best choice though.

    Manabase :

    3 Ancient tomb : tomb is of course the best choice in a deck with 4 and 5 (6 with GSZ) cmc. Despite our life gain effects 4 was a real problem against aggressive strategies, and UR is the Nį1 DTB since treasure cruise. Since with deathrite you will be happy to play turn 2 chalices that are daze proof or pierce proof I donít mind the 3 that much.

    1 City of traitors : sometimes you pay its disadvantage but you should have made good use of the mana most of the time if thatís the case. You donít want too many of it and I like assuring the colored mana for DRS and GG2 baloths, so I am happy with one even if I ran 2 for some time.

    4 verdant catacombs, 4 wooded foothills : verdant catacombs is a must, and I upped the count for deathrite and because of the sideboard ruinations.

    3 bayou : I had two for a while but you rarely suffer from wasteland with so many basics and fetches so the third was added to ensure you could cast your black spells and rolling spoil with full power.

    1 wasteland : I liked having two but I wanted to be careful with colorless mana. With DRS itís possible itís right to run more (my build when I tested without chalice had 4). But I donít want to waste a ton of lands since blue bilands will be lotus petals anyway. It takes care of a karakas/scrubland/bayou in general to prevent your opponent to playing with the trinisphere/choke lock. Rolling spoil is better for basics and versatility.

    1 dryad arbor : youíll hate when you have it in starting hand but it makes your gsz awesome the rest of the time and I donít think we can afford playing two. That can be tested though.

    Prison elements :

    4 trinisphere, 4 chokes : First core of this deck. In the current legacy metagame they are very painful for your average opponent. By themselves they are quite impactful, but having both is pretty much GG. I had 3 and 3 main deck for a while but after facing 90% of blue decks I realized they were by far the Nį1 reason to play the deck so you want full playsets. If your local metagame isnít blue enough to justify those then donít play less than 8. Just play another deck.

    4 Chalice of the void : Like I said I tried a build without them as I was very tempted by a 4 DRS 4 wasteland build. It seemed good, but chalice is definitely a huge thing. Not only it improves combo (I tried compensating with main deck Gaddock teeg without chalice but itís not the same) but it also turns a game around against many decks including current big DTB UR Delver.

    2 Rolling spoil : probably the only deck where you want to play it, but it feels like a legacy staple in it. It does two great things. Cutting off the opponent from his last manas (typically plains from miracles or mountain from UR) and killing x/1s threats including the very annoying True-name nemesis and the all around young pyromancer. Itís not that hard to cast in this deck and your other control elements give you plenty of time for that. You probably wonít realize how often the card is awesome before playing with it in this deck.
    Of course looking for the Ė1/-1 effect be careful not to get wrecked by daze. But with trinisphere that isnít much of an issue and worst case you can target one of your lands.

    Stability / engine :

    One reason I stayed away like many people from chalice decks in the last years was the inherent instability of these decks. Well mountains have moons, islands have force of will and mulldrifter, and forests have consistency thanks to two legacy staples :

    4 Green sunís zenith : llanowar elves turn one or your best creature at any point of the late game. Gives you a tool box and gives shuffling for sylvan library or courser.

    3 Sylvan library : an early spell that often takes care of force and a blue card. Liked the card in various DTB shells as a one of ? Try it in a deck that wins a ton of life (hence the creature base) so that you can keep on drawing cards.
    I used to play four in the chrome mox list and would definitely do it again if for some reason I go back to chrome (but with no more than 4 ancient tombs).

    Creature base :

    3 DRS : see accels. Also help with library and ancient tombs.

    1 Courser of Kruphix : I played 2 or 3 and was happy with them. Now with DRS its cost is even more suitable. I only have one to tutor for mainly because I needed room for decay. You will definitely love the synergy with sylvan library and it also is a great early blocker that resists to a lightning bolt.

    1 Reclamation sage : your no brain first tool box card. I used to play a second in sideboard alongside a wirewood symbiot for a while but the rest of the current list makes that unnecessary now.

    4 Obstinate Baloth : people think I am edging versus discard with it and it certainly is something relevant against HTT, liliana and SoFaF. But those cards donít see that much play nowadays, at least online. 4 life is a card drawn with sylvan library and helps not being punished for running ancient tomb. 4 cmc means it canít be decayed and 4 toughness means it canít be bolted. There are four because filling the curve at 4 is important. It doesnít look like much but it does a lot in helping the deck being so good.

    2 Thragtusk : Your big fatty for late game and to get versus control decks. It dies to lightning bolt but brings his buddy and hopefully by the time you can cast it / gsz for it you will have a chalice at one in play. Obviously gaining 5 life is a huge deal in this deck.

    1 Kalonian hydra : There were various little problems this deck had at the beginning that were solved with not too many slots when we added natural order. But NO has various disadvantages and isnít as powerful as a few years before. Thankfully I remembered the hydra existed. It could go through true-name nemesis or a big tarmogoyf for example without any problem. Two were nice but I cut down to one as more solutions to these common issues were entering the main deck (decays for goyf or delver instead of racing it, rolling spoil for TNN or Pyromancer etcÖ). Itís possible the right move is to cut it completely but it still saves my ass from time to time like no other card could as a big clock so I still run it.

    Removal :

    4 Abrupt decay : it took me a long time to incorporate it but this is a necessarily evil (though a pleasant one) as without it delver of secrets is too much of a pain. Before decay I only had a tutorable stingerfling spider and racing with gain life cratures or loxodon warhammer as my options. Splashing black wasnít exactly a problem since I was already considering it for anti TNN sb cards and DRS full value.
    Itís sad to not really care about CB, have a big curve, want to run more wastelandsÖ and have to run it. But it still does a lot for the deck.

    Sideboard :

    Mountain and savannah : you probably guessed those are for the sideboard splashes but you are certainly thinking of those as a waste of space. Thatís not the case (at least in the online metagame) because with so many UR and burn decks I need to be able to sideboard out my ancient tombs reliably, so I want at least two lands in the sideboard.
    I tested a bit a configuration without ruinations and 2-3 sideboard wastelands but it seems underpowered compared to ruination. Cavern of souls is something I didnít test but thatís because I am fairly certain it wonít be good with the regular urge of casting choke, decay or turn 1 GSZ. Uncounterability is also not a big thing when you run trinisphere and the priority in face of blue decks is mainly resolving your prison elements.

    1 Scavenging ooze : A nice GSZ option versus graveyard decks and aggressive strategies. It is even better since I cut down on sol lands for more coloured mana.

    3 ruination : this deck is probably one of the rare decks that will prefer ruination to blood moon. Because you like fetches with DRS/courser/library, because the 4cmc isnít a problem with DRS/sol lands, and because you run trinisphere (mountains still pay for trini) and donít want him to untap islands if you ever side it in a blue match-up. Donít side it in automatically against bad manabases. I found out itís not a good choice versus UWR delver for example as choke does the job very well and you need to deal with the board pretty fast. I think I still like it against deathblade and itís of course a huge thing versus cloudpost (an otherwise hard match-up).
    Only reason I see to run blood moon+ taiga instead is if your metagame has some number of thespian stage/dark depths combo.
    If you don't have any cloudpost (or any other deck/uncareful player folding to ruination) in your metagame you should probably use these slots to adjust for specific slots against what you expect to face.

    2 Krosan grip : not a random naturalize choice. Because patriot and esper players tend to keep mana open very often you really want the effect to deal with batterskul Otherwise it will grind you out. Not regretting my null rod for the second grip, you could even play 3.

    1 stingerfling spider : awesome if you have it against sneak show, but its primary role is to answer a board of delvers with GSZ. Nice side in versus death and taxes also.

    1 Dawnstrider : a very unique effect on a creature (spore frog isnít as good Iíd say). You want it mainly against natural order and infect. Yes elves can decay it (sad I cut the lightning greaves from the deck) but they also have to decay cotv or trinisphere in the early game. And after all, all you need is a little time thanks to kalonian hydra.

    1 Gaddock Teeg : dismissed the choice for a long time because of the added colour and the disynergy with cotv/GSZ/Rolling spoil/ruination. I wanted another effect against NO and it proved quite useful versus other combo decks as well. Certainly not necessary versus miracles but I guess you are still happy to side it in.

    1 maelstrom pulse : a catch-all that I am happy to side in versus control (batterskull, JaceÖ). Before ruination I liked bramblecrush x3. The nice thing with pulse is that itís another answer to delvers.

    2 massacre and 1 toxic deluge : I used to run the red splash for mass removal (firespour and pyroclasm) but you really want to be able to deal with TNN. Still not sure if this split is the best but I know I want at least two massacre for blue sfm match-ups. Having it free when there is no trinisphere is a huge deal because if the first one is countered you can play a second sweeper (deluge/massacre/rolling spoil) or a hoser like choke. ďSadlyĒ that choice brings collateral damage on death and taxes.


    Conclusion :

    The meta is now bluer than ever which makes this deck a pretty real option. You have very nice match-ups versus the top decks of the format, particularly UR and miracles. I also tuned the deck to have good match-ups versus UWR delver and Esper. Elves is probably your difficult match-up among tier 1 but I still win almost half my matches (small sample though). Death and taxes as the other non blue deck that is popular suffers a lot from your cards meant to answer delvers, TNN and batterskull.
    If burn is popular that is almost a bye despite not being blue.

    If you have a medium+ level at MTG and can test the deck a minimum before the GP this deck gives you the potential to make a very good run if you win your first matches as top decks and top players will mostly be/play blue cantrips decks.
    Also donít be afraid to be lost because this deck will be new for you. Your opponents will be far more lost than you are.

    Pre GP edit :

    My current decklist :

    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    3 [R] Bayou
    3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    5 [UNH] Forest
    1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
    1 [] Reclamation Sage
    1 [] Titania, Protector of Argoth
    2 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix
    4 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
    1 [CMD] Golgari Signet
    4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    4 [DS] Trinisphere
    4 [8E] Choke
    4 [5E] Sylvan Library
    4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
    2 [RAV] Rolling Spoil
    4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
    SB: 1 [MM] Tower of the Magistrate
    SB: 1 [M12] Stingerfling Spider
    SB: 1 [EX] Spike Weaver
    SB: 1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
    SB: 1 [R] Savannah
    SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
    SB: 1 [M14] Kalonian Hydra
    SB: 1 [GP] Giant Solifuge
    SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
    SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
    SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge


    Sideboarding for some common match-ups + some explanations with the list from just before the GP :

    UR :
    -3 ancient tomb -3 sylvan library -1 reclamation sage -1 Titania
    +1 karakas +1 savannah +1 tower +1 ooze +1 stingerfling +1 deluge +2 massacre
    I used to sideboard out all libraries but keeping one is acceptable to smooth out draws and find removal. It's possible Titania or hydra are better. If you are sure your opponent plays some vortex then keep the reclamation sage in (was an auto keep before decay). If you don't have sage post sideboard and don't know if the opponent might play vortex then use your decay carefully as keeping one for vortex can change the game. You have spider (maybe bassara) for delver, rolling spoil (mainly on mountain) for pyromancer, and blockers/trinisphere for monastery swiftswpear.
    If you changed the sideboard it's possible to bring in even faerie macabre as that blocks delver. I didn't have the opportunity to test that but it seems fine if you lack cards to side in.

    Burn :
    -3 ancient tomb -3 sylvan library -4 choke
    +3 lands +1 Ooze +1 qasali (used to side in both grips) +1 spike weaver +1 hydra +1 deluge +2 massacre
    I used to sb out all sylvan libs but sideboard changed. Don't put more non basic lands on the battlefield than necessary. Trinisphere is very good so I keep rolling spoils unless I am sure they have absolutely no X/1 creatures and have something else to play.

    Patriot delver :
    -2 sylvan lib -4 trinisphere
    +1 tower +1 qasali +1 spider (everytime they play delvers you side that in) +1 deluge +2 massacre
    It seems weird to take out trinisphere against a blue deck. That is because post board you mostly have must counters so there is no point in protecting them when you can just play directly only very powerful spells outside of creatures. Choke is excellent and makes the game without trinisphere. I guess we could try cutting baloths though, but trading with batterskul when their mana is locked isn't useless.
    Play around wear/tear if you can afford to and play rolling spoil on your own land if you fear daze.

    Miracles :
    -4 decay -1 swamp -1 forest (take out a wasteland instead if they seem to be particularly careful in fetching basics
    +1 savannah +1 teeg +1 qasali +1 solifuge (for jace) +1 stingerfling (when they steal games it's generally with an early and small entreat) +1 hydra
    I used to take out reclamation sage as they should side out cb and even if they don't it's not a big problem. But without grip and just one qasali it's safer. Qasali and sage handle SDT almost as well as grips if you have a chalice at one in play.

    Deathblade :
    -4 decay -1 swamp -1 forest -3 trinisphere
    +1 tower +1 qasali +1 teeg +1 solifuge +1 deluge +2 massacre +1 savannah +1 karakas
    Cutting some trinisphere because of the same reasoning as with patriot delver. I used to sideboard out chalices but recent decklists play treasure cruise and optimize it with many more 1cc spells than before. If your opponent has an old list try to remember that. It's possible kalonian is better than the last trinisphere. Karakas is useful versus clique and can bounce teeg if you have to play a chalice, spoil or GSZ.

    Storm :
    -4 decay -1 swamp -1 baloth -1 sage
    +1 savannah +1 karakas +1 teeg +2 faerie macabre +1 solifuge (better than baloth) +1 hydra
    If they play burning wish it's probably a good idea to side in a deluge for EtW, cutting a baloth or titania.
    You side in karakas not just to protect teeg, but also to be able to cast a chalice if you played teeg in the early turns.

    Omniclash :
    -4 decay -1 swamp -1 baloth
    +1 savannah +1 karakas +1 solifuge +1 stingerfling spider +1 qasali +1 hydra
    Mulliganing agressively for trinisphere is not a bad idea as that is by far your best card but you can keep good hands without it (and draw it/find it with library). Don't play trinisphere and keep it in hand to put it on show and tell if you only have one as you really don't want it to be countered. Then you can lock with choke or destroy omniscience with GSZ-> reclamation sage.
    It's worth noting that with qasali in play or krosan grip in hand you can put a baloth in play to prevent them from casting enter or emrakul, and in response blow the omniscience.
    Good player will recognize show and tell-> emrakul as their best line of play at least game 3 so that explains the stingerfling and the karakas. Still an excellent match-up overall.

    Elves :
    -1 reclamation sage -4 choke -1 lib -1 swamp -1 Titania
    +1 savannah +1 teeg +1 spike weaver+1 kalonian +1 deluge +2 massacre +1 karakas
    Your main plan is disrupting them with lock pieces and removal until you can either kill them or install kalonian + spike weaver. Didn't have the opportunity to test Titania in this match-up but it seems slow.

    Dredge :
    -1 reclamation sage -3 decay -1 swamp -2 rolling spoil -4 choke
    +1 savannah +1 karakas (Iona is frequent+teeg interaction) +1 teeg +1 scavenging ooze +2 faerie macabre +1 spike weaver +1 kalonian hydra+1 deluge +2 massacre
    Trinisphere is quite good versus dredge. If you are playing versus manaless then it's really good. Chalices aren't that great but still do some work. Play one at zero if you have two and they still have cards in hand.

    Reanimator :
    -4 decay -1 swamp -2 rolling spoil -1 courser of kruphix -1 Baloth
    +1 karakas +1 ooze +2 faerie macabre +1 stingerfling +1 hydra +1 deluge +1 spike weaver +1 giant solifuge
    Not sure about baloth versus solifuge as baloth can win races but that seems fine.

    Sneak show :
    -4 decay -1 courser -1 swamp -2 baloth
    +1 teeg +1 karakas +1 qasali +1 hydra +1 spike weaver +1 stingerfling +1 solifuge +1 deluge

    Merfolk :
    -4 chalice -1 trinisphere -1 sylvan library (maybe -2 trini or -2 library is right, not sure)
    +1 spike weaver +1 kalonian +1 deluge +2 massacre +1 scavenging ooze
    Funny match-up... for you.

    Death and Taxes :
    -4 choke -4 trinisphere -2 chalice of the void
    +1 savannah +1 tower +1 qasali +1 Kalonian +1 Spike weaver +1 stingerfling spider +1 deluge +2 massacre +1 karakas
    Chalices are weak to flickerwisp so I don't count too much on them. On the other hand you could argue for keeping three (cutting karakas) exactly because of that. But I don't feel their one cc are so important that I absolutely want a back-up chalice whenever possible. Karakas isn't really there for Thalia but more because they have heavy denial. However with wasteland for their ports and already so many lands I didn't have issues before when I had just two lands in the sideboard.
    Try to use your removal wisely as some of their threats can't be answered by all (serra avenger/mirran crusader).

    Don't forget to print those sb tables before leaving (or ask your hotel to do so), but as always adapt to what you see from your opponent.


    A rules add-on in case of :

    If a courser is in play with library, your opponent is supposed to see each card drawn (whether you put it back or not) since not only there is a trigger for sylvan that can be responded, but also each draw on a "draw X" is treated separately. That is why someone can play a careful study with just one dredger, dredge another dredger, and dredge it with the second draw.
    You also see the top card while wondering if you should pay life or keep cards, that can help in decisions for example in making you pay 8 life and use the top card as your land drop for the turn.
    Putting back two card is not treated as putting one then putting another one back as it is for drawing multiple cards. So if you put back two cards, your opponent should know the top card, the third card, but not the second card and what you kept in hand.

    While trinisphere could be easily remembered before as "you pay no less than 3", delve changed its wording a few months ago. Since you pay for trinisphere by removing cards now, you can play one blue mana for treasure cruise removing seven cards. With omniscience in play the opponent can play DTT for zero mana by removing 3 cards in the graveyard.

  2. #2
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I'd scoop to this.

    Honestly, this deck would be my #2 choice for GPNJ. Well done at brewing this up buddy and what a pitty that you cant join us at the GP! :(

    Greetings
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  3. #3
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Lejay, this is a really sweet deck. I definitely laughed when I first saw this online but I can see how this will enter the format. Good job, can't wait to see the rest of your primer.

  4. #4

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Giving this a quick spin, and may I suggest a spot for Scryb Ranger. Just a piece of utility to spot duty on Delvers or Cliques, save a forest from LD.

  5. #5

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Trinisphere/Chalice + Deathrite Shaman?

    Tomb/City manabases are clunky enough as it is and now this deck wants to splash two colors into it? Seems very awkward as one of the #1 problems these types of decks always have are losing to their manabases.

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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    If anything the mana base and consistency is the best of any "stompy" i've ever tried. Only 4 sol lands + 1 mana cc accellerators make for mostly smooths developments. The problem i've found is that even against UR Delver decks, you usually fold to 3+ counterspell hands because your lifegain won't be relevant enough to save you then. Plus the burn on your mana producers sucks. It's still favored, but the fastest variants with mass burn are not as clearly favored compared to the slower TNN versions.

  7. #7
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by ahg113 View Post
    Giving this a quick spin, and may I suggest a spot for Scryb Ranger. Just a piece of utility to spot duty on Delvers or Cliques, save a forest from LD.
    It has been a consideration. I think it does too little in this deck. Delver isn't really the big problem it used to be without decay. Land destruction isn't really a concern since you can often play on basics, and wasteland primarily targets sol lands (and dryad I admit). The untap effect isn't as strong as in GW utility decks with just fatties and 3drs/1dryad. I may be wrong in my evaluation of the card though as I didn't play with it, especially since DRS, so feel free to test one in a decay/kalonian/wasteland slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    Trinisphere/Chalice + Deathrite Shaman?

    Tomb/City manabases are clunky enough as it is and now this deck wants to splash two colors into it? Seems very awkward as one of the #1 problems these types of decks always have are losing to their manabases.
    Like Gheizen said and like I said in the primer consistency is precisely the reason to play the green version because DRS and GSZ (for dryad or DRS through chalice) fix your mana. I put some amount of work in making this deck stable the most with choices like running only 4 sol lands and only playing 1 wasteland despite playing trinisphere. that's because I maxed on coloured mana for DRS and decay. With that configuration playing 2 colours is easy and you only side in a third colour against non wasteland decks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    If anything the mana base and consistency is the best of any "stompy" i've ever tried. Only 4 sol lands + 1 mana cc accellerators make for mostly smooths developments. The problem i've found is that even against UR Delver decks, you usually fold to 3+ counterspell hands because your lifegain won't be relevant enough to save you then. Plus the burn on your mana producers sucks. It's still favored, but the fastest variants with mass burn are not as clearly favored compared to the slower TNN versions.
    Since you play easily around daze a fair amount of the time folding to 3 counterspells means folding to 3 forces or 2 forces and a daze with an early threat. I lost a game to turn 1 delver +3 forces the next three turns once. But I don't expect that to happen often. Also at that time I didn't have decay so these openings aren't auto-win anymore. Even something like spell pierce out of the board isn't difficult to play around and chalice on 1 nails it.
    If I play against the version full of burn spells (I played against some online) then the match-up is very similar to straight burn, which means a complete bye. Identify it by the spells they play or how they play them and don't play around daze.
    I haven't seen UR lists with TNN in a while. Everyone seems to play small variants of Bob Huang's deck.

  8. #8
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I'd be so tempted to play Rishadan Port over that wasteland. The synergy with Choke is hilarious. But, wasteland is wasteland, so it's hard to match.

    Overall this deck is pretty cool. I was thinking about some stompy version with green due to spirit guide and zenith as accelerants. Thanks for putting this deck together, it looks pretty powerful in the new blue meta.
    Playing Punishing Regular Miracles.

    Contribute to the community Miracles Primer.

  9. #9
    nidubuild
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I like the rishadan idea but no chance I test it online as it's insanely expensive. Right now I'd say 60% chances wasteland is better and 40% chances rishadan is better.

  10. #10
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    @Lejay i'll try playing more aaround daze then.

  11. #11
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Don't overdo it but yes it is important to do when you can afford it because you have key spells that are very strong.

  12. #12
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    This deck is amazing like crack. That Rolling Spoil is such insane tech and has won me so many unwinnable games already vs moms , TNNs , pyro tokens and Elves! I got out of a Karakas/Mangara lock with it, and killed all of D&T board in the meanwhile except for a Mirran crusader which i could race with the lifegain anyway. Another game i killed the only red source sneak attack had after he casted it (he casted it with petal , tomb, mountain, i stone rained next turn ftw).

    Too bad there wasn't anything good for it in the new Commander. Well, Titania is nice as a 10 power for 5 mana, and give a 5/3 token every other turn pretty much, but being boltable and not going past TNN mean she isn't hot.

    Also Golgari Charm needed some other good modal other than the -1-1. If it was destroy target artifact instead of enchantment, i'd play a couple in the sb for sure. The "regen all creature" seems so bad too.

  13. #13
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Very interesting deck. Can the new card from Commander 2014, Song of the Dryads (or similar name) be useful? It's an enchantment that makes any permanent into a forest.

  14. #14
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    Too bad there wasn't anything good for it in the new Commander.
    I would consider the new 2/2 human cleric for 1w even if taht's a nonbo with GSZ since I am now splashing white anyway. If there is something to improve it's definitely against Natural order from elves and the card has wide applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu View Post
    Very interesting deck. Can the new card from Commander 2014, Song of the Dryads (or similar name) be useful? It's an enchantment that makes any permanent into a forest.
    It's not good with trinisphere but I would consider it if I stayed mono green. Right now the black splash is very good and with very little costs so I am not changing it. It's too hard beating TNN.dek without black. The best Green/red option was Magnetic mountain and since it didn't exist online I had to play with an-zerrin ruins.
    Let's keep it simple with the black splash.^^

  15. #15

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I absolutely love this deck.

    Don't you think courser of kruphix and maybe kitchen finks are better than running so many obstinate baloths? Baloths is a nice card but 4 seems excessive curve-filling or no. Courser and finks also are great blockers than gain life but they also give you card advantage. In many situations I think casting finks or courser will be better than casting baloth even with 4 mana.

  16. #16
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    From my experience it won't outclass baloth. Immediate massive life gain is very welcomed in the games and you have so many things to play in the case you didn't reach 4 mana. The body also will be better in almost all board situations. I played briefly one kitchen finks and I think it was better than my second courser, but only because the online meta is so agressive right now. I cut it for the 4th decay.
    Several finks is something that is worth testing or having in mind when testing with obstinate, but I am quite convinced the baloths would win this battle even if they didn't have that anti liliana/SoFaF clause.
    Finks could come back if kalonian underperforms now that I have 4 decay 2 rolling spoils, but at that point I think I'd put the 3rd thragtusk back or 2nd courser.

  17. #17

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    ahg113 taps Forest.
    ahg113 taps Ancient Tomb.
    ahg113 sets counter life to 13 (-1).
    ahg113 sets counter life to 12 (-1).
    ahg113 plays Choke from hand.
     mrcs84: k
    ahg113 puts Choke into play from the stack.
    ahg113 points from his Wasteland to mrcs84's Bayou.
    ahg113 puts Wasteland from table into graveyard.
     mrcs84: you're seriously running choke maindeck?
     ahg113: yup
     mrcs84: the hell kind of deck are you playing?
     ahg113: there's a lot of blue
    mrcs84 has left the game.


    So I guess this means there's a chance. But this deck is weird. Trolling AWESOME U decks is fun, but not this much fun. Green Stompy < Other Stompy in the fun-house mirror.

  18. #18

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    @lejay is that wasteland necessary?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave8 View Post
    @lejay is that wasteland necessary?
    If that's a budget related question, no it's not. You can replace it with a forest or rishadan port or maybe even ŗ rolling spoil, it won't change a lot deck's power.
    If the question is about wasteland in general in the deck i'd like to play more but i don't want to cut any coloured mana and i have far enough lands with 23 and 7 accels.

  20. #20

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    @lejay

    I played with the deck a lot today and I felt the U/R matchup wasn't as much if a bye as I hoping for. Monastery and delver are fast. With a couple key forces and dazes they win and they'd sideboard in smash and vortex. I don't think the matchup is awful, but I wanted to crush it. Is there anything you can suggest that would help? I understand that it's the fastest of all the blue decks, but it's unfortunately the most popular. Thanks in advance for the input.

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