Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

[lilevo]

I played Lejay's list with the ghost quarters last week on a DE and to be honest I liked the previous list way better, also I am not a big fan of playing more than 2 Coursers, with 4 GSZ you can afford to play 1-2 and just search them.

[MGB]

So what if this deck found a way to play Collected Company?

The card is extremely powerful as it is both card selection and card advantage, and additionally it is usually tempo advantage (paying 3G for up to as much as 6 mana worth of creatures).

If it were ever to find a shell in Legacy, it would probably be in Maverick, Elves, or something like this, because the Ancient Tombs can power this out more easily.

Of course, I think if you wanted to make it work you would have to place more of a focus on playing 3cc creatures - a full playset of Coursers, Knights of the Reliquary, Stoneforge Mystics, and probably Tarmogoyfs.

[Barook]

The deck would need to run 22+ creatures to make CoCo worthwhile, so no. We don't have slots for that.

[Megadeus]

What if you splashed white here and went for some disruptive white men like Thalia's or something? Dissynergy with your spells, but you have tombs and such to make up that mana. It could up the man count for CC.

[MGB]

The deck would need to run 22+ creatures to make CoCo worthwhile, so no. We don't have slots for that.

Well, honestly, I don't see why you can't just play more creatures.

Obviously you wouldn't cut the Chalice of the Void, but if you decide you want to play something that generates chunks of card advantage and mana advantage (Collected Company), I could easily see cutting something like Sylvan Library and Green Sun's Zenith for more 2cc-3cc creatures.

Collected Company basically does what you want Library and GSZ to do anyway - but in many board states it's even better, as it's instant speed and generates hard card advantage *and* tempo advantage unlike these two. I don't think it's too outrageous to say that Collected Company is actually a more powerful card than both Sylvan Library *and* Green Sun's Zenith.

[FoolofaTook]

I thought the point of 4 Sylvan Library and 4 Green Sun's Zenith was to try to give the list pseudo-blue selection and advantage? That and Chalice of the Void and Choke were the things that made the list float in a meta drowning in a sea of blue cantrips.

[MGB]

I thought the point of 4 Sylvan Library and 4 Green Sun's Zenith was to try to give the list pseudo-blue selection and advantage? That and Chalice of the Void and Choke were the things that made the list float in a meta drowning in blue cantrips.

When you have a spell that gives you card selection, card advantage, and tempo advantage all in one package, it might be worth checking out *over* cards such as Sylvan Library that only give card selection (or give card advantage only at steep life costs), and Green Sun's Zenith that only ever give card selection and no real card advantage or tempo advantage.

I don't know if anyone has tested with Collected Company much in Legacy yet, but the card is extremely powerful. I don't know if it will find a home in Legacy, but at face value, searching the top 6 of your library and essentially drawing two of them *and* putting them into play for free.... is incredibly powerful at 3G mana, and the fact that it is instant speed just puts it over the top.

Sometimes instead of fighting blue decks at their own game (card selection provided by cantrips)... you just have to smash them in the mouth with something even more powerful than what they are doing (raw card advantage and tempo advantage).

[lilevo]

CoCo could work in a deck similar to Sylvan Plug but it would be a whole different deck.

[Memories of the Time]

Sylvan plug runs 10-16 creatures usually: to fit CoCo you need
Almost 22 creatures
-CoCo slots

Long Story short, CoCo could be ok in a deck that try to play creatures hatebearers: Trinispehere---->Thalia is the most obvious choice, but you need much more change and i dunno where to search: leave decay?

I don't think that the main problem of this deck is card advantage or "bombs", in general.

[Barook]

How does the deck work against the current iteration of Omnitell? Our Miracles match-up is already good.

Brainstorm is back to 80+% on MODO and my fingers are itching to slap some blue bitches.

[lilevo]

I could be wrong but I don't remember losing to OmniTell while playing Sylvan plug, one of the things I liked to do was to hold a Trinisphere in hand for Show & Tell and only play one out if I had a second one in hand.

[Memories of the Time]

You have choke, trinisphere, gsz for reclamation sage, fast chalice... I mean, you have to find 2 of these or you die, but Mu against Miracle and Omnitell are good reasons to play this deck.

[Barook]

I wonder: Has anybody considered Uba Mask?

Not only does it make cantrips worse (unless they go full Ancestral Recall with a Brainstorm with an empty hand), it also turns every Sylvan Library into a super-draw engine.

[Memories of the Time]

I wonder: Has anybody considered Uba Mask?

Not only does it make cantrips worse (unless they go full Ancestral Recall with a Brainstorm with an empty hand), it also turns every Sylvan Library into a super-draw engine.

I've tried it, both in Demon Stompy and here. It's good against miracle and combo, but sometimes it could be a little weird (like brainstorm with 0 cards in hand). If Omnitell doesn't have Omniscence in hand they have to remove Mask, of course, still i think we can find something better...

[MD.Ghost]

How does the deck work against the current iteration of Omnitell? Our Miracles match-up is already good.

Brainstorm is back to 80+% on MODO and my fingers are itching to slap some blue bitches.

I still try to find my deck to go for GP Lille and thanks to Legacys Overlord Miracle (which will be in Lille with its true European Power) and the stupid DTT-powered Omnitell decks, Sylvan Plug sounds like a reasonable choice.

The biggest question is, which direction is the right one: Old GBw List with more Decay & Baloths; more W-Splash with Knights (and a Rhino) or the lattest stuff with a Playset Mox (and no Maindeck Decays)

[Zombie]

Jund Plug with Slaughter Games maybe?

[Barook]

The biggest question is, which direction is the right one: Old GBw List with more Decay & Baloths; more W-Splash with Knights (and a Rhino) or the lattest stuff with a Playset Mox (and no Maindeck Decays)

One thing I dislike about the deck in general is the low density of threats to close out the game. It's a great deck to lock the opponent out of the game, but I found myself struggling to end said games sometimes, though. I doubt this is something that could be easily addressed given the tightness of the list.

Edit: @Zombie: I don't think you could cut white from the build.

[Memories of the Time]

I think the main problems of our deck, now, are Team America and Lands/post Mu (and the intrinsic high variance of all non-blue deck, of course).
After have tried Mox Diamonds, i think that they're the best accel for this deck, but they need too many slots: mox has to be played in addition of lands, increasing the number of dead draws and reducing the density of threats to close out the game, as Barook has said. So i've come back to ancient tomb: they're worse than mox d. , but don't need extra slot.
This is my current list:

24 lands (tabernacle isn't a true land btw)

1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit

9 Creatures

1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Siege Rhino
1 Deathrite Shaman


4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Abrupt Decay

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Trinisphere
4 Sylvan Library
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Choke

SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 4 Crop Rotation
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Trinisphere


I think Mystic is a card that deserves a test here: because we have chalice, because we can cast batterskull without many problembs and we need its lifelink, because equips make every creature a threat.

I'm really not sure about the sideboard: crop rotation is still the best t1 answer to fast combo (and searchs dust bowl against land and post, i'm very happy with it), but 4° trinisphere or 4° Choke? Massacre, Qasali, Priest (we really need priest?)

[Barook]

Mox Diamond costs extra slots and is pretty much a dead draw when not in our starting hand with enough lands, but it also fixes our mana. Running Siege Rhino and so many other non-green card with the amount of colorless lands seems questionable.

Report back on the SFM testing. Although I don't see how this increases threat density by cutting threats.

[MD.Ghost]

Mox Diamond costs extra slots and is pretty much a dead draw when not in our starting hand with enough lands, but it also fixes our mana. Running Siege Rhino and so many other non-green card with the amount of colorless lands seems questionable.

Agree, in the past i don't like running Mox (and more lands), but now i think i will give it a new try.

My latest testbuild:

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland

2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Siege Rhino
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Qasali Pridemage

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Choke
3 Sylvan Library
3 Trinisphere
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Mox Diamond
1 Crucible of Worlds

SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Giant Solifuge

I tried to find a mix between enough threats and the decks core (lock pieces), not all is set in stone!

Sideboard got some proven stuff. Double Canonist and Krosan Grip are additional help against Omnitell, but can also support many other matchups (KGrip vs Miracle, DnT, Blade; Canonist against Storm/Elves etc.). Sigarda acts as a Titania-Finisher, if the opponent bring Graveyard-Hate (or has bolts).

Note: If anyone want to cut the "deep" white stuff (Rhino, Canonist, Sigarda) i would play a Garruk Relentless Main (and a basic Swamp + Forest) and the common Spike Weaver + Hydra combo instead.