@Choobak: Great that you had the balls to play the deck at the GP - Too bad that you missed day 2! Maybe you can write some more details? How good was the Skylasher?
@Deviruchi: I still think the "old" Version of your deck is outdated, the Treasure Cruise Era is over, so you have to make some adaptations for the current meta. While Aggro Loam seems greater against a wield field with a lot of random stuff, this deck will be much better if you try to beat the top decks. Lejay created the deck vs UR Delver (which was a little bit faster than the new Grixis-Stuff) and the very blue meta, but struggled against Elves and Sneak & Show (both are more or less gone). First thing is, get rid of roiling spoil - you will face a much wider range of creatures, so you need a sweeper like toxic deluge (which also is nice vs mentor!).
@at GP: I prepared a lot for this event, but as i already mentioned i had to cancel the trip tree days before the mainevent....
My GP Version looked like:
//Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
//Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Qasali Pridemage
//Rest
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Choke
3 Sylvan Library
3 Trinisphere
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Mox Diamond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Garruk Relentless
//Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Massacre
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Trinisphere
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tower of the Magistrate
As you can see a lot of common choices and some "special ones".
Manabase: I still like the 2 Mox version over the full playset, the reason is simple: If you go full Mox you have to cut something else - if you cut too many lock pieces you will struggle with a bad Aggro Loam version of this deck, if you cut creatures you will get problems (not at MODO, thanks to the clock) to end the games quick enough. Some Creatures will die/get countered and you will durdle around for a while, seeing more and more copies of stuff you already has in game (lock pieces / library / moxes / lands) or you simply don't need yet because your opponent will kill your with a creature. Before the GP i talked with Players who also tested the deck and all mentioned the problems: "Timeout / long games" and "struggle with enemy creatures, especially bigger stuff like Gofy or the famous Zombie-Fish in Grixis"
That was the reason i want more Creatures, which worked good enough during the test months. Ooze and Pridemage are both solid early Zenith-Targets, which can apply some preasure combined with usefull abilities. Two Knights will ensure, that you have some big creatures to smash the enemy or to overcome Gofy etc. (BUG wasn't a problem during the TC-Era and Baloth was enough) - the biggest upside is, that Knights will get Utility Lands and can create a Wasteland-Lock.
Removal are a problem because this deck simply has no space... i still feel that Abrupt Decay is important, sure it is not so essential after the aggressiv UR-Delver-Cruise decks are banned, but you will face still a lot of creatures (even miracle with mentor hype...), so cutting too much Decays seems wrong, unless you play against OmniShow all day long. Roilling Spoil was good enough against UR, but Toxic Deluge is still the strongest Sweeper we can play, because it will also hit Gofy etc. and one less mana to cast can make a huge different against Tempo Decks with Daze and/or Pierce (or simply a turn more of beats against your head). Garruk will works as a One Shot here - good enough for killing Young Pyromancer and Deathrite Shaman. Garruk itself isn't as good as every single option you can play above him (4th Decay, another cc4 Creature like Baloth, Siege Rhino, Polukranos etc. - i tested them all) but he is a swiss army knife and if you can safe him from bolts (Chalice etc.) he will work good enough in various scenarios.
Lock Pieces - for me it is clear, if the deck will run full Wastelands (and also Ghost Quarter) and Knights, you wan't something to return your land destruction stuff - Crucible of Worlds - great card with 5 "Wastelands" and (compared to Aggro Loam) more Lock Pieces and it works well with Courser (Landfall/Shuffle), Mox, Titania (Fetch/Waste), Arbor (recurring Blocker) and Library (Shuffle).
Sideboard contains a lot of proven stuff, noteable are Ghost Quarter (i can't find a slot at main, but this land is really good) especially if you face decks like lands.dec, aggro loam, 12post, mud (note: miracle tends to cut the 2nd plain so GQ will punish them!); Diabolic Edict (a spot removal with upside: eat all the annoying stuff like TNN; Gurmag Angler; Marit Large; Emrakul etc.) and Sigarda (a nice finisher if the air is filled with Bolts/Swords etc. and Titania isn't save enough and/or you need another blocker for Delver/Flyers).
-----------
Two weeks before the GP i played a local tournament (38 players) and went 4:2 and missed the top8 thanks to my oppscore
Matchups:
Jund 0:2
Reanimator 2:0
Miracle 2:0
Mentor-Miracle 2:0
Grixis Delver 1:2
Goblins 2:0
Against Grixis i made a huge mistake G3, so overall the deck performed well enough and is really equiped to smash most blue decks.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Sorry, I've no time to translate my report in English, but you can read it here in french.
I just want to say that this version is not the best in a liliana and delver field, but i appreciate it a lot for this GP. It's a good Day2 deck and i would appreciate it if i didn't meet a Jund at the 8th round. unfortunatelly, without bye, it's hard.
The Skylasher is not good. I never use it. I prefer more abrupt decay. Now, maybe i will try the Herald of the Pantheon and Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen.
Loved reading the report, played Lands (RG) myself in Lille and yea, Chalice decks can be hard to overcome, and although it seems contradictory, Lands can be soft to manadenial as you witnessed. Too bad bout your badtempered round1 opponent on Sundays, most Landsplayers are nicer :) As I like all nonblue strategies, might try Sylvan Plug myself in the future (format ein't getting less blue).Originally Posted by Choobak
You guys might find this interesting Frank also posted something on his FB page.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1244672
Wow, he has an ability to netdeck decklist used by romariovidal & G0ogle on modo and call it BG prison by Frank Lepore? Great success!
To be fair I don't think he is claiming that's his list, he just posted he played at a local event with the deck and went 4-0.
Today i won a 6 round (34 players) tournament with my plug.version for GP Lille (see post/link above).
Matchups:
UB Delver 2:1
BUG Delver 2:1
Miracle 2:1
BUG Delver 2:0
MUD 2:1
DnT 1:1 :1
Deck was a blast and i can only recommend to test the build over other chalice.stuff like aggro loam etc. thanks to the fact, that we continue with the "no changes" meta
TEAM MtG Berlin
Hi,
I took MD.Ghost's list to a local event yesterday and finished 3-1-1 (no top in this particular tournament, pay out on MP) The deck was very fun, especially if it wasn't fun for the opponent. And it's a very good choice in most Dutch legacy stores, as we get 80%+ blue decks mostly. Yesterday was no different with 20ish people attending, one Elves, one DnT and one affinity and me as non-blue decks.
Round 1 (UR Delver)
Mull to 6, lose die roll and sequence lock pieces wrong. Means he gets there. Also awkward with GSZ and Arbor in starting 6.
Next one I win easily as choke and trinisphere lock down his board and his delver refuses to flip.
And game 3 he opens up really aggressively. By the time I clear the board he has resolved a vortex. I don't find the decay and lose.
(0-1)
Round 2 (Shardless BUG)
Mull to 6, lose die roll. T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Hymn for 2 lands and T3 Lilli is too much.
Game 2 goes back and forth with him finding decays when I assemble some locks. At some point the board stalls with his 2 goyfs, 2 agents and a DRS (just cascaded into that one) I have a knight, a courser, a baloth and an arbor. He knows I have decay. No creatures in the GY yet aswell as no artifact. Goyfis 4/5, the knight is 5/5. He attacks with an agent, and double goyf to get me in range of DRS activation. I decay a goyf, block agent with arbor and sack it to knight who blocks the other goyf. The Silvan library brings me a Deluge that's just gravy :D.
Sadly he played a bit slowly, as did I, which means this ends up in a draw.
(0-1-1)
Two blue matchups down, no matchwins yet. This means lunch break is right in time (yes, this tournament has a lunch break, that's actually pretty awesome) To salvage my day and finish in the money I need 3 straight wins now. Let's proceed.
Round 3 (Miracles with helm/rip)
Game 1 I eventually assemble some lock pieces, bouncing his clique with karakas and putting down chalice on 3 together with chalice on 1 and forcing him to spin top by decaying it. Sadly he draws into helm rip before I find a creature.
Game 2 I have all the removal, casting GSZ 4 times in a row, the last time for Solifuge to beat his Jace. Ghost Quarter to beat his Energy Field.
Game 3 an early Teeg means no sweepers, trini+choke lock down his board. He can't find a flooded strand so he has to fetch a tundra for the StP in hand. This means he can't top though. Library is too much CA in the end.
(1-1-1)
Round 4 (TES)
I mull to 6 but win a die roll for a change. Sadly can't make a T1 chalice @ 1, but I know he's on TES. So I drop it for 0 and it buys me just enough time.
Game 2 he EoT double deacys my Trini+Teeg, sometimes they have it.
Game 3 gets really close, I find multiple lock pieces and waste lock him with Crucible. Can't find a chalice though. He has to wipe my board with grapeshot after bouncing Trini (for storm 6). He can't find the land to kill me though, I gained too much life with Courser.
(2-1-1)
Round 5 (Jeskai Ascendancy)
I already know what he plays. He proceeds to force both my chalice and trinisphere and still win on T3.
Game 2 I have double trini and double chalice, he actually forces 3 times this game. But he runs out of gas.
Game 3 again 2 forces, but I catch him with choke.
(3-1-1)
My team all finished in the money (4/5 money slots) and they were all glad to dodge me as they played 4c delver 2x and ANT.
Interesting list that was posted just now on SCG
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Terastodon
2 Progenitus
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
7 Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Choke
3 Sylvan Library
4 Eureka
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Living Wish
4 Natural Order
Sideboard
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Hornet Queen
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thragtusk
1 Choke
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Progenitus
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Crystal Vein
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Plug plan with prison lock outs and choke then Natural Orders for big dumb dude or Eureka them in Love it.
@MD.Ghost - I really like your list.Today i won a 6 round (34 players) tournament with my plug.version for GP Lille (see post/link above).
Matchups:
UB Delver 2:1
BUG Delver 2:1
Miracle 2:1
BUG Delver 2:0
MUD 2:1
DnT 1:1 :1
Deck was a blast and i can only recommend to test the build over other chalice.stuff like aggro loam etc. thanks to the fact, that we continue with the "no changes" meta
It has been a few months. Any changes?
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
Thanks - I haven't played the deck the last few months (brewing with other stuff) - but if i would enter a big tournament and/or play in a meta full with miracle and/or Omnitell i would snap grap my old GP-List.
I think all the pieces work well enough together to get a solid deck. The biggest problem is, that aggro loam (which is still weaker against miracle+omni!) get so many "Hypes" after the GP, that "Chalice" isn't the big surprise anymore. This means - most (good) opponents will be prepared to fight Aggro Loam/Artifacts - in this case, Sylvan Plug will get some Splash Damage (i am happy that Choke is an Enchantment). This Deck also contains much bigger creatures, so common red removal, decays etc. don't get them.
-------------------
Speaking about the hyped Chalice-Brother (Aggro Loam) i would switch main/side after the first game this way:
-4 Chalice of the Void, -3 Trinisphere, -3 Choke
+2 Faerie Macabre +1 Sage +1 Pulse +1 Sigarda +1 Edict +1 Deluge +1 Bojuka Bog +1 Quarter +1 Solifuge
They simply can't beat Sigarda (unless they play and find a timly Deluge) and you have a lot of removal to get them. For G1 i would try to get a Chalice at 2, because they have many Spells at cc2 and have to find a Decay in time (which has plenty of other targets
TEAM MtG Berlin
Also, why Misty Rainforest instead of Windswept Health? Mistake?Thanks - I haven't played the deck the last few months (brewing with other stuff
I think all the pieces work well enough together to get a solid deck. The biggest problem is, that aggro loam (which is still weaker against miracle+omni!) get so many "Hypes" after the GP, that "Chalice" isn't the big surprise anymore. This means - most (good) opponents will be prepared to fight Aggro Loam/Artifacts - in this case, Sylvan Plug will get some Splash Damage (i am happy that Choke is an Enchantment
-------------------
Speaking about the hyped Chalice-Brother (Aggro Loam) i would switch main/side after the first game this way:
-4 Chalice of the Void, -3 Trinisphere, -3 Choke
+2 Faerie Macabre +1 Sage +1 Pulse +1 Sigarda +1 Edict +1 Deluge +1 Bojuka Bog +1 Quarter +1 Solifuge
They simply can't beat Sigarda (unless they play and find a timly Deluge) and you have a lot of removal to get them. For G1 i would try to get a Chalice at 2, because they have many Spells at cc2 and have to find a Decay in time (which has plenty of other targets
Can someone explain why Rolling Spoil has fallen out of favor?
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
You're not playing basic plains, so there's no reason to indicate which color combination you are playing by using Windswept Heaths.
Rolling Spoil has fallen out of favor because Young Pyromancer is not as dominant a threat today as it was when Treasure Cruise was dominating the meta, or I think that's the reason. Now you need sweepers that take care of creatures with more than toughness 1 so Toxic Deluge is needed.
I m really uncertain about what deck to bring at ovino tournament next week between plug and nic fit pod. The two main reasons that deter me from take plug again is the high variance (although 4 gsz and 4 library reduce it) and the few versatility against rogue /casual deck. For the first problem I was thinking about an heavy land utility build with 2 crucible and 2 canopy plus tabernacle, other than 3 kotr.
About variance and versatility, have living wish and eladamri call been discussed and tested enough? I m really interested expecially in the first one
Edit: Thare are no ways to play without Trinisphere (i mean, only in sb?). Anyone has tested something?
Last edited by Memories of the Time; 09-24-2015 at 01:22 PM.
Nic Fit has the same issuses with variance - you can also durdle around and topdeck Explorers/Lands/Therapy etc. if you don't need them anymore - in a Pod Shell you also have a lot of 1off Creatures that can be good/bad etc.
I played numerous Nic Fit Shells and find no one better - in case of variance and versatility - compared to Sylvan Plug (i run 4 Zenith, 3 Library, 1 Crucible). Sure with Plug you can also Topdeck useless Chokes/Trinisphere etc. but dont underestimate the combination of library, zenith, courser, knight, crucible and fetchlands, it really works well together.
A heavy land-utility build can also lead to much longer games/draws because you have to cut other good stuff like prison elements or the comparatively few creatures/beaters (win cons). The same problem will occur if you include spells like Living Wish and Eladamris Call. Yes you gain some more tutors/options/versatility but you will lose some other stuff. I also made sacrifices with the 4th Decay + Library + Trinisphere - but played a lot with the few slots to find good alternatives (Crucible, Garruk, 2nd Knight).
About the Cut of Trinisphere - i play only 3 main (and 1 side) but i see no way to play without them. They just fit perfectly together with Choke, Wastelands (Ghostquarter) etc. A build without them will lead to Aggro Loam, which leads to a better game plan against lots of "fair" stuff but you will lose a good amount of your combo (mainly OmniShow) matchups game 1. I also prefere to lock out Miracles with Spheres/Chokes compared to the PFire/Liliana Plan - sure Miracle will have some hard fights against the GP-Loam Lists, but in my experience the Plug.dec will simply destroy them (and it doesnt matter if with or without Mentor!).
I played some other decks the last weeks but some of our good regional players (spirit of the wretch) tried the core of my deck and immediately won a smallish tournament. Yesterday we both played at the same tournament (40 players) and he managed to get the 8th place. I would like to point out that he face many non-blue Matchups that gave him a hard fight over 6 rounds.
If we see no ban today - Plug will still be a very good predator in a blue meta.
EDIT: @Octopusman/Misty Rainforest - the reason is simply, first i own the blue-fetches and generally like a split of fetches, second open with a misty and no t1 play (for example if you can only drop chalice/sphere etc turn 2 - which is still ok!) can mislead some opponents.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Thx Md.Ghost for the answer.
Pod Fit has Brainstorm plus top/library and Pod itself that reduce the variance: expecially brainstorm, obv.
Anyway, Dig ban. For this deck i think that it isn't a good news, because we'll find less blu and less omnitell and more Sneak&show.
In these days i'm testing a list without Chalice and i think that could be a way: now i'm very worried about this saturday Ovino
I've very curious to hear how this deck is positioned after the ban. I literally just completed the deck so I am hoping for the best.
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
MD.Ghost I'm playing your list tonight. Let you know how it goes.
Any last minute tips? Specifically, what kind of board states (or decks) is it better to GSZ for Knight of the Reliquary vs. Courser first?
I'm tempted to abuse Courser on an open board. Going all-in on a big knight early seems reckless to me without establishing more control first, but would love to hear thoughts.
Kind regards,
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
Sorry for the delayed post - haven't seen it in time. Your first question really depends of the deck you face and your board. If you fear Abrupt Decay, rushing for a Knight might not be the best, because Decay.decks will also use Gofy and Knight is your best creature against this stupid beater (which can grow very big thanks to our artifacts/enchantments). If you managed to deploy some lockpieces and your Knight seems safe i would go for the Knight because it is important to close out games once you gain control with something like chalice, choke etc.
I rarely Zenith for Courser, this creature is mainly to stabilize the board and gain advantage for the long run, it feels like a kind of "plugs confidant" (compared to Aggro Loam) because you can easily profit from her abilities. She was really good with all the URx decks with TC/DTT because she blocked most stuff well enough and dodges bolts (red removal). Now with a uprise of BGx she lost some power (decay-able and can't block a gofy well).
We'll see how the meta devolopes. As a prison.deck, all the BGx Stuff (BUG Delver, Shardless, Jund) are challenging. If we see a rise of Elves and/or Sneak&Show it can also be a tough task to win (following the first pages, because Lejay developed the deck at TC-era, which also contained a lot of Elves and SneakShow stuff). As a predator of miracle this deck is still in a good shape and will also do well against DnT, Blade, etc.
TEAM MtG Berlin
What i fear mostly is Liliana, because the big weapong against her is Baloth, that sucks by other decks and by every Goyf.
And S&T isn't a great mu too...
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