Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

[Seraphix]

....

One of the common problems of "Plug" (and to some degree Aggro Loam) is a heavy BGx field, because the will all have Decays, Gofy and the nasty midrange stuff - one of the advantage can be, that we play some 4+ mana stuff which will shine here (Baloths and other green friends). US Meta (see GP) seems full of Shardless, BUG Delver etc - in this Case Baloths should be nice enough! They way you beat the fair (and creature heavy) decks is (without the PFire plan from Loam) to simply sweep them away: 2 Deluge Main, and 3 more sweepers Side (Deluge, Massacre or other Stuff).

....

Is Baloth really that good against BUG? He's hard for them to remove but loses in a fight with Tarmogoyf.

I've always loved Life from the Loam, and my biggest regret is the antisinergy between P.Fire and Trinisphere: otherwise i think that a Naya Plug could be perfect.

Grove + Fire is often a good chunk of your turn so I don't think its unplayable next to Trinisphere. In a lock-based deck like this you would probably rather have Decay as your removal spell of choice though since its uncounterable and more versatile.

[ironclad8690]

Is Baloth really that good against BUG? He's hard for them to remove but loses in a fight with Tarmogoyf.

In my experience he "seemed" good but the surprise "Gotcha!" didn't happen nearly as much as you would think it would. As you mentioned, if shardless already has a goyf down it can be likely a 5/6 after only a few turns. It is really tough to face down all these strixes and not grow their goyf. What I recommend is maybe upping the scavenging ooze count, but still keeping some number of baloths because they are good against shardless, just not the blowout. Ooze at least exiles their artifact creatures and planeswalkers to keep the goyf at a manageable size that can be killed by either baloth or titania tokens.

[Memories of the Time]

Grove + Fire is often a good chunk of your turn so I don't think its unplayable next to Trinisphere. In a lock-based deck like this you would probably rather have Decay as your removal spell of choice though since its uncounterable and more versatile.

It's not just the removal part: p.fire gives us reach (a thing this deck needs), kills pw and wrecks Bgx (another thing we need, expecially liliana).
Red gives us another two powerfull cards: Wolf Run and Scorched Earth that with Loam makes trinisphere always interesting and nearly a lock (and helps against loam, post, lands and other bad Mu).
The point is: p.fire under trinisphere is very slow, making very hard to kill pw, batterskull and other things; it even makes counterspell on p.fire a good idea, ironically.

edit: same impressions about Baloth. I really don't like him

edit^2: I really like Tabernacle+Denial and SFM, as i said in the previous months, expecially the first one.

[TLK]

Anyone test Centaur Vinecrusher yet? I think he could be a solid answer to opposing Goyfs. He'll likely be larger than an opposing Goyf, and has recursion working in its favor. Plus, it can't be hit by Decay.

[Octopusman]

Anyone test Centaur Vinecrusher yet? I think he could be a solid answer to opposing Goyfs. He'll likely be larger than an opposing Goyf, and has recursion working in its favor. Plus, it can't be hit by Decay.

Man. I got a set for $5. Awaiting them. I can not believe that it is this cheap. I just can't believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up quite a bit but I don't have the cash to speculate on it right now.

Going to test 2 and see how it fares.

Kind regards,

[TLK]

Yeah, I got a set for $5 as well. I can't wait to test him out. My main issue is where to plug him in and for what.

[TLK]

Anyone try the Centaur yet? Mine arrived in the mail but I haven't been able to play in our weekly lately.

[MD.Ghost]

Anyone try the Centaur yet? Mine arrived in the mail but I haven't been able to play in our weekly lately.

I was busy (played elves, walking dead etc.) but give Plug a little testround yesterday (3:0) with Centaur:

Build (see signature), is my old one but the raw idea was:
-1 Garuk Relentless
+1 Abrupt Decay
-2 Baloths
+1 Centaur Vinecrusher
+1 Siege Rhino

In this case Removal-Slots and cc4 Beaters are the same (which i think is right). Its like a mix of abilities from baloth, rhino gives some life, vinecrusher can recover from discard (and removal and counters), on the one hand siege rhino can be hard to cast, on the other hand the Centaur has a perfect , - finally both creatures should be better on its own compared to the baloth-body. Thats the theory, only more practise will show if the decks need the Baloths anymore (which were key as lejay invented the deck).

In this Setup Garruk Relentless gets one Sideboard-Space, because against RiP you can switch the cc4 Vinecrusher with him (decks with RiP: Miracles, DnT - both good enough for the Walker), so you only get harmed a little bit (2 Knights, 1 Crucible) by heavy graveyard hate which is an advantage over Aggro Loam (4 Knights, 2 Loams, 3 PFire).

--------------
Another untested idea:
-2 Baloths
+1 Shriekmaw
+1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
(keep my old build with 3 Decay, 1 Garruk Main)

In a field without much DnT (Karakas) Meren should be not so bad (body is decay/bolt proof) and she combos nicely with Shriekmaw (and maindeck Pridemage). Remember that even without any experience counter you still get a creature back in hand (or if its arbor directly to the field), which isnt so bad because every (of the few) beats will count if you deployed lockpieces and need to close the game fast enough.

--------------
Finally i also brew with some Sideboard Slots:
-1 Trinisphere (Omnitell is gone)
-1 Diabolic Edict (still good vs Sneak, Lands and Gofy.stuff)
-2 Massacre (thats the real experiment)
+1 Garruk Relentless (see above, from main to side)
+1 Ravenous Trap/Leyline of the Void/Memoricide (something against combo for sure)
+1 Maze of Ith
+1 Night of Souls' Betrayal (the ugly brother of toxic deluge)

[Seraphix]

I was busy (played elves, walking dead etc.) but give Plug a little testround yesterday (3:0) with Centaur:

Build (see signature), is my old one but the raw idea was:
-1 Garuk Relentless
+1 Abrupt Decay
-2 Baloths
+1 Centaur Vinecrusher
+1 Siege Rhino

In this case Removal-Slots and cc4 Beaters are the same (which i think is right). Its like a mix of abilities from baloth, rhino gives some life, vinecrusher can recover from discard (and removal and counters), on the one hand siege rhino can be hard to cast, on the other hand the Centaur has a perfect , - finally both creatures should be better on its own compared to the baloth-body. Thats the theory, only more practise will show if the decks need the Baloths anymore (which were key as lejay invented the deck).

In this Setup Garruk Relentless gets one Sideboard-Space, because against RiP you can switch the cc4 Vinecrusher with him (decks with RiP: Miracles, DnT - both good enough for the Walker), so you only get harmed a little bit (2 Knights, 1 Crucible) by heavy graveyard hate which is an advantage over Aggro Loam (4 Knights, 2 Loams, 3 PFire).

--------------
Another untested idea:
-2 Baloths
+1 Shriekmaw
+1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
(keep my old build with 3 Decay, 1 Garruk Main)

In a field without much DnT (Karakas) Meren should be not so bad (body is decay/bolt proof) and she combos nicely with Shriekmaw (and maindeck Pridemage). Remember that even without any experience counter you still get a creature back in hand (or if its arbor directly to the field), which isnt so bad because every (of the few) beats will count if you deployed lockpieces and need to close the game fast enough.

...

Am I crazy for thinking Shriekmaw sounds fantastic in this deck?

[Octopusman]

I just replaced both Baloths with Centaurs to see how they fared.
Once, I couldn't sweep with Deluge because I would have died where I would have had enough life to do so had I casted Baloth vs. Centaur. I probably would have still lost.

I never GSZ for it and for some reason I always had Deathrite prior to casting it. Regardless, it was 6/6 all three times I cast it throughout a 3 round weekly. I never returned it to my hand but I like the prospect of having that option had it been removed.
Would like to test more and happy with it for the time being. We'll see.

Kind regards,

[lilevo]

So I am back playing plug, I played in 3 daily events since Friday and went 3-1 in all three a little disappointed I couldn't 4-0 any of them but I am still happy with the results. I finally added Centaur Vinecrasher to the main deck and I liked it, he is a good way to beat goyf decks. Here is my current list for reference:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/350701#online

[Echelon]

In a field without much DnT (Karakas) Meren should be not so bad (body is decay/bolt proof) and she combos nicely with Shriekmaw (and maindeck Pridemage). Remember that even without any experience counter you still get a creature back in hand (or if its arbor directly to the field), which isnt so bad because every (of the few) beats will count if you deployed lockpieces and need to close the game fast enough.

Meren is a beast with Pridemage. Shriekmaw is only fun as long as it's returned to your hand. After you get enough experience counters the fun stops unless you somehow manage to keep getting rid of Shriekmaw. On the other hand, an opponent that doesn't attack you out of fear for your Shriekmaw dying/recurring can also be quite helpful.

[lilevo]

Meren might be ok but I am hesitant to play any creatures that you can't tutor up with GSZ and that doesn't affect the board right away. A friend of mine suggest I test Roon of the Hidden Realm.

[rubblekill]

Meren might be ok but I am hesitant to play any creatures that you can't tutor up with GSZ and that doesn't affect the board right away. A friend of mine suggest I test Roon of the Hidden Realm.

I usually GSZ for Meren.

[lilevo]

My post was regarding the Shriekmaw. Meren seems like something worth testing.

[lilevo]

So there is a Mox tournament in NJ this weekend and I pretty sure I am going to play Sylvan Plug, I have been doing well with the deck online here is my latest list.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/356273#online

[Dice_Box]

Due to online results, I am sticking this thread until the yardstick for "Established" is worked out. I think you guys will shift over once that happens.

[Einherjer]

We have decided to move this thread to the "Established"-section as it does satisfy the conditions, which are that it is fully tested, tweaked and finished. It doesn't have to be Tier1, though.

Good job with Sylvan Plug!

[TLK]

Could Soul Swallower find a place in this deck?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...5407345445.png

[NeverTheTwelve]

Could Soul Swallower find a place in this deck?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...5407345445.png

I don't think I will use this card... It may be a little slow, and in the first round is boltable. I think this is more performing: The Gitrot Monster! Great body, ramp and card advantage with fetches, Courser and Kinght of the Reliquary...

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e3&oe=57917D43