Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

[Memories of the Time]

Lejay: haven't considered Dryad arbor as a land, in this case i play 23 land and you 24, it's ok. How are working Mox Diamonds in your list? They are the main not-sure-point in my MD list.

[Lejay]

They have been good. You pay less the card disadvantage on lands than with chrome/ESG thanks to coursers, running that many lands means less mulligans, 4 sylvan means you almost never draw mox diamonds midgame, they make dryad in hand less of an issue, they help fixing the addition of a third color, the speed boost to land prison elements can make a big difference versus fast combo decks, and when facing slow grindy decks you have regular lands in the sideboard.

[apple713]

how is the deck performing again D&T? are the abrupt decay's enough against the equipment?

i see lejay is using massacre and that clearly helps but is it enough?

solifuge for miracles? has it proved useful?


EDIT***

Is spike weaver along with trini / chalice sufficient against elves?

are elves the only thing you are bringing weaver / hydra in against?


Anyone given thoughts to willow satyr against S&T?

[Ricflairwoo]

how is the deck performing again D&T? are the abrupt decay's enough against the equipment?

i see lejay is using massacre and that clearly helps but is it enough?

If you follow lejay's death and taxes sb plan(1st page) I think the match up is favorable. Game 1 you have the x4 decay plus spoils. You have to be careful with how you use your decay's. Serra avenger is hard to deal with and you should prioritize them with decay. You have plenty of other answers post sb for the equipment(sage, tower, Pridemage).

Weaver/Hydra combo come in against swarm decks(merfolk, etc) and I also board it in against lands. It's a bit slow but once it's online alot of decks just straight up can't beat it.

Soli is decent, not in love with it but I don't think we have a ton of options.

[Sisyphos]

Played the deck in a small local tournament to a 3-0-1 finish. Drew against DnT in the first round, then beat Ant, 4-Color-Control and MonoU-Omnitell 2-0 each. Played some more games inbetween rounds against 4-Color-Control and MonoU-Omnitell to get some practice in, putting the total against 4-Color-Control at 5-0 and at 4-0 against Omnitell . The draw in the first round was unintentional and at least in part due to my inexperience with the deck (was my first time running the list), which made me play slower then usual. I'd guess that I was the favorite on board and had a reasonable shot at winning if I had an additional 10 minutes to work with, but I was at a very low life total so I could have lost if I would have bricked with my draws for 3-4 turns.

List I used was:

2 dryad arbor
1 savannah
3 ancient tomb
3 bayou
3 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacombs
2 wooded foothills
4 wasteland
3 forest
1 karakas
2 mox diamond
1 knight of the reliquary
1 deathrite shaman
1 qasali pridemage
1 titania, protector of argoth
2 courser of kurphix
2 obstinate baloth
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 choke
4 sylvan library
4 abrupt decay
2 rolling spoil
4 green sun's zenith

1 tower of the magistrate
1 stingerfling spider
1 spike weaver
1 scavenging ooze
1 kitchen finks
1 reclamation sage
1 kalonian hydra
1 giant solifuge
2 gaddock teeg
1 massacre
2 faerie macabre
2 toxic deluge

Thanks for the list Lejay! Great work.

[bruizar]

Could you tell me how exactly the omnitell games went? What cards were critical to win those games?

[apple713]

Could you tell me how exactly the omnitell games went? What cards were critical to win those games?

trinisphere, and GSZ for qsali pridemage because it can kill omni and put pressure on them until they find an answer to it. reclamation sage also helps from board but only if you can S&T it into play. Chalice at 1 slows them down if they arnt holding the combo.

[Gheizen64]

Trying around various Daretti decks and shit, i was hit by how good the Punishing fire is in current legacy. Remove all of the annoying creatures in the format, plus double as really efficient reach and PW removal even against miracles. So since i thought this deck was so good at being prison, that i'd try it in the shell, in place of A. Decay which i felt was used 90% of the time to remove walkers and creatures anyway, with a distant third on equips.
So i've looked into what card i could use in a RG base shell, and my first thought was BloodBraid elves. The card however is a big nonmbo with both chalice, trinishpere and GSZ, so i decided to not even bother. However, searching GR cards bore some interesting fruits:


Prison:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Choke

Card Advantage:
4 Punishing Fire
2 Domri Rade
4 Sylvan Library

Creatures:
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows


SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Stingerfling Spider
SB: 3 Ravenous Trap
+3 flex


Huntmaster of the fells is INSANE in this deck. It's comparable to Obstinate baloth, in that you can power it out with Ancient tomb, and gain you life. However, two bodies are usually better in case you're swarmed down compared to 1. But the flipping ability is just really good. Considering you play chalices, trinishperes and chokes, your opponents will often have turns where he doesn't do anything (and often you too), meaning it flipped every game i played him. With Library, you can draw 2 spells each turn and easily flip him back, giving you back half of the life you spend on library itself, and a 2/2 token, plus additional damage when he flip back. His relative weakness compared to baloth is that he's more vulnerable to burn (but less to swords), but chalice is here for that, and the additional utility convinced me this card was just much better than Baloth.

Domri is essentially another sinergistic piece with Library and Courser, that double as removal, damage sponge, and make any topdeck letal when you get the emblem. The problem here is that you run only 14 creatures so his +1 is not that good unless you got a Sylvan out.

Burning-Tree Emissary was something that i wanted to try, and for now it tested reall good, being able to put up a body+ Chalice/P.Fire. It's probably not that good, especially since i play 4 Wastes, but nothing strike me as good in its spot as of now. Another card i thought about was Satyr Wayfinder.

Rest of the list is pretty standard, with the sideboard having basically 3 flex slots (2 ruric, 1 Renegades), and the punishing fire engine killing every creature, woman and planeswalker you see.

[Barook]

No Mox Diamonds? Domri seems kinda underwhelming since you don't run that many creatures to properly support his abilities.

[Sisyphos]

Could you tell me how exactly the omnitell games went? What cards were critical to win those games?

trinisphere, and GSZ for qsali pridemage because it can kill omni and put pressure on them until they find an answer to it. reclamation sage also helps from board but only if you can S&T it into play. Chalice at 1 slows them down if they arnt holding the combo.

Trinisphere was MVP for sure, especially when put into play directly via their Show and Tell to make it uncounterable. It makes it nearly impossible for them to combo you in one turn, which gives you enough time to get Pridemage/Sage to blow up the Omniscience. Chalice is nice for blanking their setup spells, but Choke was the one card that exceeded my expectations in the match-up. They need at least one, usually several, cantrips to find the combo and turning their lands into Lotus Petals means that every cantrip they cast gives you at least one extra turn because they have to find and play another land to get up to three mana again. Trinisphere+Choke means that they need at least 9 Islands in play to combo. Having the Karakas main instead of the second Savannah also won me a game, as he went for the back-up-plan of putting Emrakul into play with Show and Tell against my board of Trinisphere/Pridemage and without Karakas the deck has no out against that play preboard.

[Lejay]

how is the deck performing again D&T? are the abrupt decay's enough against the equipment?

i see lejay is using massacre and that clearly helps but is it enough?

solifuge for miracles? has it proved useful?


EDIT***

Is spike weaver along with trini / chalice sufficient against elves?

are elves the only thing you are bringing weaver / hydra in against?


Anyone given thoughts to willow satyr against S&T?

All this information has been discussed in the thread.

D&T is a good match-up for sure, I think I have yet to lose to it. It's unfavourable pre board with an excellent match-up post board (and may furthermore improve as you'll read in this post).
Solifuge is for miracles but not only, any Jace deck or other planeswalker with little defense on the board makes it a good choice. I also side it in against combo.
Spike weaver + trini + chalice is clearly enough, but I doubt you will always have them. You also have to find kalonian and/or removal for DRS at some point.
I side in the spike/hydra combo versus anything that plays lots of creatures and tries to win with the combat phase. Also sometimes when a random threat is better than prison pieces, which is a good reason to play decent bodies in the sideboard.
I considered willow satyr, but I would play second karakas or stingerfling spider instead first if I had room for the sneak and show match-up. Remember that is not a common deck online anymore.

Trying around various Daretti decks and shit, i was hit by how good the Punishing fire is in current legacy. Remove all of the annoying creatures in the format, plus double as really efficient reach and PW removal even against miracles. So since i thought this deck was so good at being prison, that i'd try it in the shell, in place of A. Decay which i felt was used 90% of the time to remove walkers and creatures anyway, with a distant third on equips.
So i've looked into what card i could use in a RG base shell, and my first thought was BloodBraid elves. The card however is a big nonmbo with both chalice, trinishpere and GSZ, so i decided to not even bother. However, searching GR cards bore some interesting fruits:


Prison:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Choke

Card Advantage:
4 Punishing Fire
2 Domri Rade
4 Sylvan Library

Creatures:
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows


SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Stingerfling Spider
SB: 3 Ravenous Trap
+3 flex


Huntmaster of the fells is INSANE in this deck. It's comparable to Obstinate baloth, in that you can power it out with Ancient tomb, and gain you life. However, two bodies are usually better in case you're swarmed down compared to 1. But the flipping ability is just really good. Considering you play chalices, trinishperes and chokes, your opponents will often have turns where he doesn't do anything (and often you too), meaning it flipped every game i played him. With Library, you can draw 2 spells each turn and easily flip him back, giving you back half of the life you spend on library itself, and a 2/2 token, plus additional damage when he flip back. His relative weakness compared to baloth is that he's more vulnerable to burn (but less to swords), but chalice is here for that, and the additional utility convinced me this card was just much better than Baloth.

Domri is essentially another sinergistic piece with Library and Courser, that double as removal, damage sponge, and make any topdeck letal when you get the emblem. The problem here is that you run only 14 creatures so his +1 is not that good unless you got a Sylvan out.

Burning-Tree Emissary was something that i wanted to try, and for now it tested reall good, being able to put up a body+ Chalice/P.Fire. It's probably not that good, especially since i play 4 Wastes, but nothing strike me as good in its spot as of now. Another card i thought about was Satyr Wayfinder.

Rest of the list is pretty standard, with the sideboard having basically 3 flex slots (2 ruric, 1 Renegades), and the punishing fire engine killing every creature, woman and planeswalker you see.

Since you want your removal to be good against delver punishing fire is not bad and I considred it several times. However it's not as versatile as decay, it weakens the manabase, and if you play it, knight is good for grove, however grove is bad for knight. Being RG also means you'll get more problems facing TNN. Best answer in red is magnetic mountain (and online it's an-zerrin ruins since magnetic mountain doesn't exist).
Huntmaster was underwhelming in my testing as a 1 one-of and I played it quite some time. So I advise you to test more with the baloth comparision in mind. Saying it's particularly good because you make your opponent play nothing is saying it's good when anything decent would win the game. When you are behind it's inferior to baloth,. You say two bodies are better when you are swarmed but what are you going to block efficiently with 2/2s ? Pyromancer's tokens and what else ? Also worth considering that young pyromancer decks play burn spells.

Domri Rade was the planeswalker I liked the most in my options. However I still didn't play it when in red because of being decayable and the lack of creature density for both abilities.

I can understand most of your choices (even if I disapprove playing them all in all) but Burning-tree emissary is something I don't get at all.

Went 2-2 twice in a row (have gone 4-0 in every other daily for a few days) and there were losses against UR and elves in particular that once again made me desire 2x pyroclasms pretty strongly. I still didn't find any possible cut for taiga+2x pyroclams, but after thinking for a very long time I decided to try this (went 4-0) :

1 [CS] Swamp
1 [KTK] Wooded Foothills
2 [R] Bayou
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [R] Savannah
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [CS] Forest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
1 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 [BNG] Courser of Kruphix
3 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [8E] Choke
4 [5E] Sylvan Library
4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
1 [RAV] Rolling Spoil
1 [C13] Toxic Deluge
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [EX] Spike Weaver
SB: 1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 1 [M14] Kalonian Hydra
SB: 1 [GP] Giant Solifuge
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 [M11] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [NE] Massacre
SB: 1 [R] Taiga
SB: 1 [MM] Tower of the Magistrate

So what's the trick ? All maindeckable cards from the sideboard were put main, so there are 62 cards main deck. I don't know if I am too tired and miss too many things, but I'd rather post before going to bed and get people debate about it.
First, as I said in this thread at some point, going over 60 cards in a GSZ deck is at least defensible.
Second when I was hesitating on 3rd baloth as 61st card I dismissed it mainly because I felt 61st should have been a land if it had to be. Playing 4th wasteland and 4th trinisphere means I am upping the land density but not as much as if I had simply added a land.
Third I think 4 sylvan libraries gives the deck enough velocity for this to be acceptable or even maybe better. It's possible 3.87 libraries per 60 cards is better than 4 libraries per 60 cards.
Fourth, and that may be the most important, even if we consider playing 62 cards is an objective small mistake, I still think playing without pyroclasms (or other slots in these 77) would be a (even if slightly) bigger mistake.
Fifth the cards in this deck are so bad that by running 62 you have less chances of drawing them, and you also can look even more like a total noob.
Sixth, fifth was a joke of course.

I only have one daily of testing so we'll see. I also don't like replacing a rolling spoil with toxic deluge very much so I may go back on this.
I'd like to point out that I won the very very close game 3 of fourth round because I had that 3rd baloth in the deck. Granted I was in trouble because of a missclick on library that made me pay 4 life for a useless chalice, but still.

[Barook]

62 cards? A toolbox mustn't be an excuse to slack off when it comes to tight deckbuilding.

Going to 62 cards to waste a sideboard slot for a Taiga is absolute insanity. Just because it works due to the raw power of the deck doesn't mean it's healthy in the long run. If would rather run in the Taiga in the MD and replace a basic Forest (or maybe even the Swamp?). As long as you have at least 2 basic forests to fetch, you should be fine.

[Michael Keller]

Playing for a Black Lotus and Ancestral Recall this weekend. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[P-E]

great !! sadly it won't be with dredge but plug is strong and funny

[MD.Ghost]

Last weekend i was able to take a closer look at this stompy brew. As i mentioned before, a small white splash seems to spicy to dismiss this option. Finally i take some personal adjustments and different directions, but overall it is the beasty stompy shell lejay created here.


4 ancient tomb
4 verdant catacombs
3 windswept heath
3 wasteland
3 forest
2 bayou
1 horizon canopy
1 scrubland
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
1 savannah

2 courser of kurphix
2 obstinate baloth
2 knight of the reliquary
1 siege rhino
1 scavenging ooze
1 deathrite shaman
1 qasali pridemage
1 titania, protector of argoth

4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 abrupt decay
4 green sun's zenith
3 choke
3 sylvan library
2 toxic deluge
1 garruk relentless

side:

2 krosan grip
2 massacre
2 faerie macabre
1 gaddock teeg
1 stingerfling spider
1 kalonian hydra
1 reclamation sage
1 spike weaver
1 maze of ith
1 bojuka bog
1 memoricide
1 free -

Some notes after a weekend full of online games:

Karakas maindeck - i hate Sneak&Show as a deck concept, so if i can, i will fight it in every deck. With Titania, Knights and the Teeg as a sideboard choice, Karakas seems an auto include.

Manabase isn't set in stone yet, 3 colors aren't easy to balance, but without mox (or other stuff) i wanted the playset Ancient Tomb for a faster game plan. Horizon Canopy is a half savannah with synergy to titania, knight, library, courser etc.

As you can see i also cutted one Choke, because i found chalice+trinisphere are the first disruption pieces and choke is more a backup or the last coffin nail against blue. Against non blue Choke is a dead card G1, so one less seemed ok for me.

Another -1 was Sylvan Library, i don't want to resolve more than one and i also want to cast it after the other disruption elements (which also makes it easier against counters). I also quickly realized that Courser is a beast and also "draw" cards which results in a more consistent and smooth game development. I knew that Library and Zenith are the main tools for consistent, so without a 4th Library i included more creatures (ooze, 2nd knight and rhino) and also 1 Garruk Relentless as a flexible choice (kill creatures, tutor creatures, token spam) - his weak body really profits from chalice&sphere.

I knew that some of you like Rolling Spoil, but i think double Toxic Deluge is the real deal. It's one mana cheaper (so possible T2), kills way more stuff (Delver, Swiftspear, Stoneforge, Deathrite, Containment Priest, Gofy, right up to Emrakul) - for most land destruction this decks can bring Wastelands, along with Titania and Knights if needed.

Sideboard includes some new stuff as Bojuka Bog (with 2 Knights Maindeck a sometimes needed "get the whole graveyard" option); Maze of Ith (hey Knights^^) as my punishment against UR Delver, because they forgot the old tempo stuff like Stifle+Waste; finally 1 Memoricide vs Miracle and mainly Combo after you applied some lock pieces.

This tends to 1 free slot, which can be another Zenith-Target or totally different (and weird) stuff like: Timely Reinforcements, Ghostly Prision, Thunderstaff, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Magus of the Tabernacle etc. etc.

---------
Snap EDIT with Quote from Sneak&Show Thread:

My friend JPA:

Until the format is 70 % Containment Priest decks I see no reason to play Omnitell over Sneak & Show.

vs

So is better playing omnitell when priest become more present in the meta...

Yes, please - Omnitell is such an easy matchup with this stompy shell - i would like to face this matchup more often

[Lejay]

Going to 62 cards to waste a sideboard slot for a Taiga is absolute insanity. Just because it works due to the raw power of the deck doesn't mean it's healthy in the long run. If would rather run in the Taiga in the MD and replace a basic Forest (or maybe even the Swamp?). As long as you have at least 2 basic forests to fetch, you should be fine.

I would do the same thing about taiga main if I would insert a second karakas in the sideboard. But I still want three lands in the sideboard and it's nice that one of them produces green mana (against control you side out MOXx2 and dryad generally). I could change my opinion in the future about keeping 3 lands in sideboard as the land density main deck rose slightly, but that is not very likely.
I wouldn't judge on that sole 4-0 myself, it was just random information. I am exposing the idea pretty early (not worried of looking like a noob) in case I could get some arguments I didn't think of in one way or the other.
I've built a deck with more than 60 cards in the past, a deck chaining gifts with spellweaver volute. There has also been a consensus at a certain period on mystical teachings decks being optimal with 63 to 66 cards. A green sun's zenith deck isn't on the same degree of justifying playing more than 60, but dryad arbor, tool box and playing 4 sylvan is already something.

At worst if it ends up being a bad idea overall, I am pretty sure this will still be the best way to test all the options to figure out the best cuts. So I definitely will continue playing the 62 cards list for some time.

[H]

Another mention of this deck on SCG, even if it is the "out of date" GB version.

[Ricflairwoo]

I only have one daily of testing so we'll see. I also don't like replacing a rolling spoil with toxic deluge very much so I may go back on this. I'd like to point out that I won the very very close game 3 of fourth round because I had that 3rd baloth in the deck. Granted I was in trouble because of a missclick on library that made me pay 4 life for a useless chalice, but still.

I watched that match. I was wondering what card you paid the 4 life for.

[phazonmutant]

I played Lejay's list here at a small local minus a Kalonian Hydra for a Containment Priest because the store didn't have any Hydras. I went 4-0 (with a bye), losing only one game to me being completely stupid (I was having way too much fun ) and another to a Pyromancer + double Force nut draw.

Awesome deck! I was pretty dubious of the crazy numbers and terrible-looking bullets, but the whole thing fits together beautifully. I didn't board in Weaver, but I realize now it's pretty stupid to have it without Hydra. Still, I'm not quite sure I see the point... My other takeaways were that I'd like to move the Scavenging Ooze main as a cheaper threat that gains life, and I'd like another Rolling Spoil in the board. It was a card I was hoping to draw quite often. I'm also not too sure about Titania. It seems like win-more - expensive, and it's not too tough to just block down or Bolt if things are going poorly.

Is there a reason Containment Priest isn't in the sideboard? If Show and Tell is tough, then this is great hate against it, and it also has application to Reanimator and Dredge (which don't seem that tough, but mise). Sure, it can't be Zenithed out and messes with Zenith and Arbor, but so what?

I played against Grixis Control (Eli Kassis's list), Dredge (narrowly winning game 1 off the back of Courser!), and Raka Stoneblade (I guess like BBD's list?). I've been completely torn what to play at SCG Portland and I'm seriously considering this as an out to the Cruise mirrors.

I would do the same thing about taiga main if I would insert a second karakas in the sideboard. But I still want three lands in the sideboard and it's nice that one of them produces green mana (against control you side out MOXx2 and dryad generally). I could change my opinion in the future about keeping 3 lands in sideboard as the land density main deck rose slightly, but that is not very likely.
I wouldn't judge on that sole 4-0 myself, it was just random information. I am exposing the idea pretty early (not worried of looking like a noob) in case I could get some arguments I didn't think of in one way or the other.
I've built a deck with more than 60 cards in the past, a deck chaining gifts with spellweaver volute. There has also been a consensus at a certain period on mystical teachings decks being optimal with 63 to 66 cards. A green sun's zenith deck isn't on the same degree of justifying playing more than 60, but dryad arbor, tool box and playing 4 sylvan is already something.

At worst if it ends up being a bad idea overall, I am pretty sure this will still be the best way to test all the options to figure out the best cuts. So I definitely will continue playing the 62 cards list for some time.

Interesting idea. I'm skeptical that it's strictly correct, but I've done similar things in the past. It's a good way to test, if nothing else.

[apple713]

I would do the same thing about taiga main if I would insert a second karakas in the sideboard. But I still want three lands in the sideboard and it's nice that one of them produces green mana (against control you side out MOXx2 and dryad generally). I could change my opinion in the future about keeping 3 lands in sideboard as the land density main deck rose slightly, but that is not very likely.
I wouldn't judge on that sole 4-0 myself, it was just random information. I am exposing the idea pretty early (not worried of looking like a noob) in case I could get some arguments I didn't think of in one way or the other.
I've built a deck with more than 60 cards in the past, a deck chaining gifts with spellweaver volute. There has also been a consensus at a certain period on mystical teachings decks being optimal with 63 to 66 cards. A green sun's zenith deck isn't on the same degree of justifying playing more than 60, but dryad arbor, tool box and playing 4 sylvan is already something.

At worst if it ends up being a bad idea overall, I am pretty sure this will still be the best way to test all the options to figure out the best cuts. So I definitely will continue playing the 62 cards list for some time.

There really is no reason to have more than 60. Anything over 60 is why you have a sideboard... for cards not important enough to justify a main deck slot. The main deck should be good vs the majority of the decks in your given meta. There will always be a card that is weaker than others against the majority of decks and making that determination is difficult sometimes but ultimately should be done. At what point do you draw the line for including toolbox cards main board?

also, what is really preventing you from running the taiga main? are you concerned about Price of progress, or Blood moon, or something else? Moon decks are on the decline currently and S&T is one of the few decks that brings it in from the board which just makes a bad match only slightly worse. As for price of progress, the basic land count has dwindled to 3 from the original 5. Have you seen such a significant effect that you cannot include the taiga main?