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Thread: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

  1. #161
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricflairwoo View Post
    I played with the deck in a grinder and lost in the finals. R1 Miracles, R2 omnitell r3 maverick, r4 storm r5 I lost to maverick.
    It's too bad RicFlairWoo lost that final match for byes. Apparently his bad start put him in a difficult bracket with this metagamed deck.
    Last edited by Lejay; 11-15-2014 at 10:36 PM.
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  2. #162

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Played this at GP NJ. Unfortunately, I could not secure byes and had to face some very unfavorable matchups (Burn, MUD, Mono Red Sneak Attack) early on that cause me to go 2-3 right out of the gate. This is the kind of deck that needs to be played at a homogenous metagame invitational-level tournament, or at the very least needs to be played by someone with 3+ byes at a tournament as diverse as a Grand Prix.

  3. #163
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by MGB View Post
    Played this at GP NJ. Unfortunately, I could not secure byes and had to face some very unfavorable matchups (Burn, MUD, Mono Red Sneak Attack) early on that cause me to go 2-3 right out of the gate. This is the kind of deck that needs to be played at a homogenous metagame invitational-level tournament, or at the very least needs to be played by someone with 3+ byes at a tournament as diverse as a Grand Prix.
    While I agree with the general message to some extent and that this deck is clearly less likely to put an average performance than most decks, I think your examples aren't the best and particularly burn as I consider it the best match-up of the deck, and believe me I faced a lot of these online.
    I won't say a lot on monored sneak as I faced it only twice. 1 win 1 loss in close matches.
    MUD was probably a bad match-up with first lists. But having 6 land destruction effects and ways to find them should really change things.

    I didn't play at all this week-end so any additionnal feedback from you or anyone else will be welcomed, so that I can work further on the list.
    CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
    You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.

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  4. #164
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lejay View Post
    I didn't play at all this week-end so any additionnal feedback from you or anyone else will be welcomed, so that I can work further on the list.
    To improve the deck, I would look at two things:

    a) Against what cards/decks does the deck have problems? Why? And what are possible solutions?
    b) How to further increase consistency?

    As far as b) is concerned, how about Living Wish? Your sideboard already has a huge array of one-ofs in form of creatures and lands that can all be fetched via Living Wish.

    I don't know if Living Wish is too slow and how it can fit into the shell since cuts are already hard enough, but it would certainly open up an interesting perspective since you gain alot more options against various decks, starting G1.

    Siding in cards removes them as wish targets, though, so there's that.

  5. #165
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    It's hard to define your "a". I solved most problems and those remaining are either decks that will beat us structurally like deed decks, bad match-ups against which there is no worthy improving card by itself like combo lands, or favourable match-ups that are not complete byes. I think the deck will only slowly evolve from now on (and since GP is away now I will probably test the deck less).
    About your "b", increasing consistency is certainly something I have in mind as not needed but that would be appreciated. I don't have a proposition yet and I have already thought about living wish once the sideboard started to look like a wish board. But I dismissed the idea because of the tempo issue mainly + also the fact that those wishes wouldn't be as powerful as they should for a legacy deck. If you play this deck enough you'll notice there are often games when you don't have time for this kind of card. Sometimes you even don't have time anymore to play trinispheres before immediate business.
    CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
    You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.

    An example with my (very large) list in a visual form

  6. #166

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I day 2ed with Lejay's list at the gp jersey. I will post a report later on today when I have more time. A few notes/questions I had after playing it was if there was a better answer to goyf when it came out of bug delver it caused an issue if I already had to use a decay on delver. If anyone has any advice on that and also I feel knight could be in the board as it could search up the utility lands quickly and provide a big threat against d and t. Although d and t was basically a bye after side board and I even stole a game 1 with 2 chokes in hand.

  7. #167
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Lejay, how happy have you been with bringing in Massacre against non-Plains opponents? Because it keeps being stuck in my hand and the double black isn't easy to get when you have to actually cast it.

  8. #168
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    I played with 2-3 pyroclasm/firespout for a while in addition to anti-nemesis tools. Best overall configuration of the sideboard I could find was just to remove those and use massacres versus elves/UR.
    I do think they are good enough most of the times but with more slots available I would probably upgrade by playing more suited mass removals again.
    CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
    You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.

    An example with my (very large) list in a visual form

  9. #169

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Well I messed up and typed a long report to only have it dissapear on me when I tried to submit it. So here is the condensed version.
    Day 1: 7-2
    Bye
    Sneak and show:Win
    Burn: Lose to bad keep of a hand game 1 assuming a guy who looked very into magic with a team hoodie was on a blue deck. Misplayed game 2
    Jeskai Stoneblade: Win
    Jeskai Standstill: Win
    D&T : Win
    Storm: Lose
    Belcher: Win
    D&T: Win

    Day 2:
    RUG Delver: Lose - win game 1 and proced to lose games 2 and 3 to a turn 1 delver and blind flip on his next turn revealing ancient grudge. Followed by forces to back up the delver and me not drawing abrupt decays
    Jeskai Stone blade: Win game 1, Lose game 3 to him swinging 5 times with a stoneforge with no equipment and me drawing no outs to it with sylvan library in play
    Merfolk: I mess up and when he is on a mull to 5 on the play he plays wasteland,mutavalt,chalice on 1 and I let him talk me into thinking he is playing stax and I butcher the sideboard and lose to true names game 2 followed by game 3 losing to 3 forces combined with pressure.
    Bug Delver: Lose - I forget the actual details but I win game 1 and lose to goyfs and force of wills games 2 and 3... I see only 1 decay in both games 2 and 3.

    Overall the deck was great and the side board plans was amazing I went with this list:

    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Courser of Kruphix
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Obstinate Baloth
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Rolling Spoil
    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 Golgari Signet
    4 Trinisphere
    4 Choke
    4 Sylvan Library
    3 Ancient Tomb
    3 Bayou
    5 Forest
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    2 Faerie Macabre
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Tower of the Magistrate
    1 Kalonian Hydra
    1 Karakas
    2 Massacre
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Savannah
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Spike Weaver
    1 Stingerfling Spider
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Lejay has done a great job with the deck and I used all of his sideboarding strategies to great success. If I had had more practice I feel I would have easily x_2ed. I had not played a game with the deck till my first round in the gp. I will say the thragtusk should just be a scavanging ooze as it would help greatly with tarmagoyfs and is a descent threat that can be gsz for early in the game. I want to fit knight in the board somewhere to be able to search for the tower of magistrate with as that card is insane right now with all the stoneforge decks going around. Also knight can get big enough to block a goyf which is good as when my baloths start chump blocking I started to lose. I will play this deck this weekend at scg richmond and appreciate any feed back I can get as I prepare more for this weekend by actually playing games with the deck before hand.

  10. #170

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Played a small tourney (21 players) this sunday. Lots of fun, not so good results...
    R1 Reanimator.
    I mull to 6 (opener had 4 land, courser, baloth, spoils) and he opens with careful binning elesh & Iona. I open with Bayou, GSZ for Dryad. T2 reanimate Elesh and start the beatings. I just draw, but we don't have a out MD, so onwards to G2.
    G2 I open with Chalice on 1 and follow up with a Trini.
    G3 he has T1 Grisel. Not a lot to do against it.

    R2 Storm
    G1 he miscounts T1 and easy cruising from there on for me.
    G2 we are both flooded, but my T2 Library reveals me double chalice on T3. Jups, GG it is.

    R3 against UR-delver
    G1 fast beatings bring me to 5 life, after wich a spoils clears his board and double baloth wins the race.
    G2 the same.

    R4 against MUD
    Just a horrible MU. G1 he has T2 Forgemaster, into T4 Sundering Titan, T5 Hellkite.
    G2 I try to restrain his mana, but eventually he lands a Forgemaster and the turn after he masters Blightsteel.

    R5 against BUGdelver.
    Mull to 5 doesn't help, but I try to stem the bleeding, but Goyf beats me into a pulp.
    G2 again mull to 6 and a fast delver followed by a goyf and a liliana is to much too fast.

    It really was a lot of fun playing this, but the MU were a bit sad.

  11. #171

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    With the spread of YP, i find Baloth even less incisive as tank, counting that it still loses against Batterskull and Tarmogoyf (and Nemesi). And this is very bad, because Rhino is way better but its cc doesn't allow me to play a nice manabase... seems a very sad choice to me.

  12. #172

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    @Tibalt

    You went 0-4 day 2 against 4 lists that all play primarily Islands.

    If that can happen how can Choke be a good main list card?

  13. #173

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    @Tibalt

    You went 0-4 day 2 against 4 lists that all play primarily Islands.

    If that can happen how can Choke be a good main list card?
    Picking up all the cards for this deck; I miss Mono Green [Chalice] so much.

    Has anyone looked at Caltrops as an option? This card seems blasphemously underrated at the moment. I'm currently testing a list without Choke main, although I am most definitely trying it out of the board.

  14. #174

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
    @Tibalt

    You went 0-4 day 2 against 4 lists that all play primarily Islands.

    If that can happen how can Choke be a good main list card?
    My day 2 was odd. Choke main is amazing and I had it in play in most games not to mention I won game 1 on 3 of those 4 matches. I would not cut it, also I chose to get food and a drink after day 1 and did not get to sleep till 230 and woke up at 7. My day 2 just showed my inexperience with the deck and lack of sleep mostly.

  15. #175

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Somebody has to explain how a list with this little removal and no hand disruption actually works in a real metagame. I see great raw power and soft locks all over the place and not enough answers for Delver, DRS, Tarmogoyf, Young Pyromancer and any creature that actually lands early and makes a big impact.

    It looks like a great list against blue control and a random list against blue aggro control. Do you have to draw 2 Abrupt Decay to not auto-lose to good blue aggro control?

    Secondarily, Chalice@1 is a great play turn 1 but there are only 3 ways to do that in the list not the usual 8. Turn 2 Trinisphere with a Wasteland is a wonderful package but again there aren't many ways to get that done.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is: "how do you live until turn 3 when your plan will come to fruition most of the time?"

  16. #176

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tibalt View Post
    My day 2 was odd. Choke main is amazing and I had it in play in most games not to mention I won game 1 on 3 of those 4 matches. I would not cut it, also I chose to get food and a drink after day 1 and did not get to sleep till 230 and woke up at 7. My day 2 just showed my inexperience with the deck and lack of sleep mostly.
    No disrespect intended at all in my earlier post. I very much admire pilots who will play something like this with conviction. It's my choice too when it's possible, which is very rare.

    What worked and didn't work in terms of the matches you won and lost?

    Did you go into the negative often when your first locking play was forced?

    How did you manage creature or counter overloads from the blue shell?

    Edit: Just to followup on the earlier question about Choke, if you had it in play often day 2 and still went 0-4 against Islanders doesn't that suggest that it isn't a kill card against them as often as it should be?

    My experience with locking lists of this type is that it is the bleeders, the creatures and spells that get in around the edge of an imperfect lock that beat me. Choke doesn't cause Islands to come into play tapped, it just prevents them from untapping. Most Legacy lists can play off of 1 or 2 mana if all they have to do is get one thing done and they win. In that situation with 4 Abrupt Decay as your only removal you're going to get killed by Delvers more often than you'd like. The creatures in the list can't block them and other than Abrupt Decay you have no way to deal with them.

    Most of the time the problem with a locking list is that it has overkill on the lock and the removal and too few win-cons so it is inconsistent on that basis. This list appears to have overkill on the lock, albeit slowly, overkill on the threats (including GSZ) and not enough removal to avoid the bleeding damage.

  17. #177
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Picking up all the cards for this deck; I miss Mono Green [Chalice] so much.

    Has anyone looked at Caltrops as an option? This card seems blasphemously underrated at the moment. I'm currently testing a list without Choke main, although I am most definitely trying it out of the board.
    I think Roiling Spoil does everything we'd want Caltrops to do, plus kills TNN. But Caltrops + Fungusaur or Rite of Passage wouldn't be the worst cute synergy in this deck.

  18. #178

    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    I think Roiling Spoil does everything we'd want Caltrops to do, plus kills TNN. But Caltrops + Fungusaur or Rite of Passage wouldn't be the worst cute synergy in this deck.
    Caltrops is a permanent with a static effect that shuts down most of these decks dependent on one-toughness creatures. I know R.S. is used to wipe out True-Name Nemesis, and I'm going to be playing at least two. But Caltrops is a card that shuts down decks like Death and Taxes, Young Pyromancer, Empty the Warrens as a win condition for one mana cheaper with no color requirements. I just see it out of the board as a powerful ability that shuts down decks ill-equipped to deal with it early on.

    I harken back to the Mono Green Chalice Aggro deck I had success with a few years back. That variation had acceleration also in the form of Elvish Spirit Guide, which I really like. If I were to roll with a list that acts as a hybrid between this one and the one I played several years ago, it would look something like this:

    [4x] Chalice of the Void
    [3x] Trinisphere

    [4x] Abrupt Decay
    [2x] Rolling Spoil

    [3x] Sylvan Library
    [1x] Bow of Nylea

    [3x] Natural Order
    [3x] Green Sun's Zenith

    [4x] Elvish Spirit Guide
    [2x] Deathrite Shaman

    [4x] Obstinate Baloth
    [2x] Courser of Kruphix
    [1x] Progenitus
    [1x] Titania, Protector of Argoth
    [1x] Acidic Slime
    [1x] Reclamation Sage
    [1x] Empyrial Archangel

    [5x] Forest
    [4x] Ancient Tomb
    [4x] Verdant Catacombs
    [3x] Bayou
    [3x] Windswept Heath
    [1x] Dryad Arbor

    //Sideboard
    [2x] Tormod's Crypt
    [2x] Faerie Macabre
    [2x] Primal Order
    [2x] Choke
    [2x] Caltrops
    [2x] Krosan Grip
    [1x] Toxic Deluge
    [1x] Gaea's Blessing
    [1x] Trinisphere

    Something close to what I would play.

  19. #179
    bruizar
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    T1 DRS, T2 Ancient Tomb Natural Order Progenitus looks hot.

  20. #180
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    Re: Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    T1 DRS, T2 Ancient Tomb Natural Order Progenitus looks hot.
    That's Magical Christmas Land.

    The MD looks pretty interesting. The SB - not so much.

    I'm giving it a spin and see how it goes compared to Lejay's list. I like Elderscale Wurm more than Archangel, though.

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