The issue with Pox isn't that the meta needs to be the right temp. It's that Pox is a narrow and inconsistent pile of shit and without a viable gameplan or reach. Slapping in a few copies of Vindicate and Zealous Persecution does nothing to change this.Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
In this meta a resolved Trinisphere wipes out about two-thirds of the lists. Sinkhole, Vindicate, Smallpox and Wasteland follow Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy until Liliana or a Trinisphere establishes a soft lock. Add in the mainstay of Innocent Blood and use Beseech The Queen to go get what is missing to stabilize. Use Abyssal Persecutors to finish things off.
The old Pox lists didn't have access to Liliana. She's a huge difference in terms of power because unlike Pox there's nothing awkward about using her at all. Also, don't use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Turning the opponents fetches into mana is a bad idea because they are going to run out of lands sooner rather than later given they give up 1.5 lands from their overall plan every time they fetch. Use Wastelands and a couple of Cabal Pits and 18 black sources to power the list. Use just 4 Marsh Flats and 4 Scrublands for the white splash.
It's a real beating against fair lists and this meta is overloaded with fair lists at this point. If a list wants to drop a creature T1 they're playing right into your hands. How many lists don't want to drop a creature turn 1?
If more than 2 pox decks day 2, I will fly to wherever you are and shake your hand. The end.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
I think if built properly and piloted smartly, a Pox deck could do some serious damage at this event.
Trinisphere took a solid kick in the groin with the M15 delve rules.
Between that and the printing of deathrite... Three ball seems weak
Also abrupt decay.
It could. I'm sure that, on their way to a 2-3 drop, the Pox player could lock a few games and shit on their opponent and eat their opponent's first born son. The deck does have that potential. Unfortunately, it's more likely to hit a mull to six that features land, go.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
I'd see pox pilots as the landmines of the meta, not able to make day 2, but absolutely ending several opponent's day 2 prospects. Which is sort of what pox is for anyways, really.
I almost want to grind for byes on Friday, then play Eggs in the main event just to be an asshole.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
Well, if people are packing smelt, I'd rather be the one on chalice...
Or Counterbalance, for that matter.
The joke is that there are approximately seventeen viable anti-artifact cards in red, and Smelt is not one of them.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
Most lists can only play 1 land a turn. If you have enough redundancy to knock out the early mana base and you can find your locks you can stay ahead of that unless you have a really slow finishing plan - like Mishra's and Bloodghast.
Again, shit you can do vs shit that will probably happen.
You can get Innocent Blood into Sinkhole into Trinisphere into untap into Wasteland into Liliana into random beats.
You could also get a Dazed Innocent Blood into Trinisphere into Wasteland into Swamp into Swamp.
The tournament I started is over. You should join the next one.
If you can get good hands and be mostly on the play over the 14+ rounds of the GP with a Chalice / Trinisphere deck then you'll do awesome. But the math just isn't with you, you are purposefully not playing 8 ancestral recalls, or a deck with 8 tinkers and 2 different draw engines. I've played chalice decks almost exclusively at Legacy events and basked in the glow of a few 5-0, 4-0, 6-1, starts ... eventually you'll lose the roll mull to 6 and be staring down some simian grunts Delver. That Delver will then naturally flip, he'll Daze all the wrong spells but it won't matter because all you are drawing are Ancient Tombs and you'll die.
Chalice on 1 on the play is amazing, and you'll ruin some peoples days and that's always fun but over a really long event you'll need to get very fortunate to not lose a few times to your own deck. Now if 15% of the field played Chalice we'd see it top 8 a bit more, but I don't think any more than a few % play chalice decks. Decks with Chalice and Blood Moon aren't as powerful overall but they do have 2 axis to attack a random field on, you could argue you're better off playing a Chalice / Moon deck since you have a better chance of getting 'free wins'.
But back to Trinisphere, it's just not what it once was. Being on the draw against a Deathrite is miserable. The Delve mechanic is good vs. it now. The chance of landing it turn 1 is pretty bleak and in the context of the stompy shell I can't pin it under Chrome Mox.
Well, I always rather be on counterbalance, but generally yeah ;)
If storm and pure aggro decks are weak, Commandeer seems well-positioned in the format.
Smelt is pretty good if you have only 16 lands and aren't concerned about Chalice decks showing up. As for me, I wouldn't play a 16-land deck or Smelt.
Can Pox run Toxic Deluge without it being suicide?
As a singleton that you can find with Beseech the Queen. It's not very reliable but it gives the capability. I prefer to run a singleton The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the sideboard. A lot of the time you can knock even Elves and D&T off of their game plan early with Innocent Blood and Smallpox.
The list I've been grooming for GP NJ is actually Esper splash with 4 Treasure Cruise and 4 Vindicate. I keep pushing blue out and then putting it back in. I was trying Brainstorm as well at one point but it's overboard and it thins the disruption base too much. With no cantrips the list relies heavily on redundancy and 24 lands to avoid bad draws, even Brainstorm doesn't fix things well when tapping out to do something disruptive every turn is a priority.
Jelly's points about draw consistency are on target. That can't really be fixed by removing meat and potatoes for draw fixing. You want the meat and potatoes and you want to eat them each turn not go looking for food.
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