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Thread: [DTB] Dark Depths

  1. #2421

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    Not sure if there is other playable discard besides Therapy, though.
    Maybe Collective Brutality? Two mana is not an insubstantial amount against fast combo but it's of course very flexible in other situations too.

    Also, congrats to everyone, we've made it into the Deck to Beat section! 🎉

  2. #2422

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    @Namida Interesting idea to board into more discard against the combo decks, rather than lock pieces. This is something I actually haven't considered. Perhaps a better discard spell than Inquisition, though, because Inquisition is a bit poor against Show and Tell. Hymn seems like it might not be castable in some situations, though, especially if you are on 3 Urborg like me. Not sure if there is other playable discard besides Therapy, though.
    Yeah I do like having additional discard in the SB. It's not as good as lock pieces against Storm--but more flexibly good against the field. Currently I run (in paper) 4x Thoughtseize, 2x Duress, 1x Collective Brutality maindeck and an additional Collective Brutality SB. Online I just replaced the Brutalities with Duress. I only run 7x MD discard because I also run 2x MD probe, that so far I have really enjoyed. I often board them out for SB games--I think they are just incredibly effective game 1.

    Though Collective Brutality isn't as good against combo as Duress (or maybe even IoK, though that's debatable), it's a really flexible answer. And sometimes it is just game-winning. Against pile: take your edict, kill your strix. Against infect: kill your creature, take your pump spell. Against burn: kill your guy, take your bolt, gain some life. Not that we need any help against burn... but it's fun :-) Also very strong and flexible against Delver.

  3. #2423

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Deck. To. Beat.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)

  4. #2424
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    It completely slipped my mind that Inquisition of Kozilek isn't very good against the actual Show and Tell pieces other than Show and Tell itself. All the available discard choices have their strengths and weaknesses; I like the suggestion of Collective Brutality--it's similarly not very good against Show and Tell, but it's probably better against the Death and Taxes decks. I think I know some Show and Tell players I can convince to let me test both of them so I'll give that a shot next week. Thank you all for your input!

  5. #2425

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    We did it fam!

  6. #2426

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    good job everyone
    Solnox on MTGO

    Decks: Turbo Depths, Miracoli Miracoli, Eldrazi Post, Czech Pile, Death and Taxes, Mono Red Storm,

  7. #2427
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    @DNSolver I'm actually Finnish Probably not going to be in Greece any time soon but I was planinng on attending GP Barcelona. If the main event goes belly up might dodge some Blood Moons in Legacy side events.

  8. #2428
    Fizzling Since '03
    Mr. Froggy's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    I remember when people thought this deck was a gimmick. Mow look at it!
    ''The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.'' Lord Eddard Stark - A Game of Thrones

    -Adsum

    -ChrisMeister on MTGO

  9. #2429

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    Deck. To. Beat.
    Holy crap!! Wow. Awesome job guys!

  10. #2430

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    I haven't play much MTG since starting grad school. Was just looking at my pieces for the deck today and decided to check the forum. Awesome news on moving up to a DTB everyone!

  11. #2431

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Hey guys, I had some questions about the sideboard plan and strategy versus Grixis Delver. I have been having trouble with it lately and I know it is supposed to be a good match-up.

    Here is the list I am running: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/858297#paper

    Currently, I sideboard out my fast mana, bring in abrupt decays, sylvan library, factory, and surgical. My thinking is that they have minimal outs to marit large and generally we just need to get around counter magic, wasteland, and edict. I try to force a longer game with the library advantage and use needles, surgicals, and discard to get rid of the problem cards. This used to work, but lately I just die a one to two turns before I can go off.

    What have you guys found effective in this match-up? What is your sideboard plan and how does your strategy and key cards change post-board?

    Thanks!

  12. #2432

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by daft View Post
    Hey guys, I had some questions about the sideboard plan and strategy versus Grixis Delver. I have been having trouble with it lately and I know it is supposed to be a good match-up.

    Here is the list I am running: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/858297#paper

    Currently, I sideboard out my fast mana, bring in abrupt decays, sylvan library, factory, and surgical. My thinking is that they have minimal outs to marit large and generally we just need to get around counter magic, wasteland, and edict. I try to force a longer game with the library advantage and use needles, surgicals, and discard to get rid of the problem cards. This used to work, but lately I just die a one to two turns before I can go off.

    What have you guys found effective in this match-up? What is your sideboard plan and how does your strategy and key cards change post-board?

    Thanks!
    Hey Daft,

    I don't think Grixis Delver is a great Sylvan Library matchup as they are pressuring your life total in the early game. BUG Delver I bring in Libraries against because it is good against Hymn. With your current SB, I would bring in 3-4 Decays, Factory, and the 4th Needle. I think I would actually board out your Library, 1-2 ESGs, and 1-2 Safekeepers, and Maps if you see Stifle. Grixis Delver can be tricky, but it is a good matchup. Sometimes you can stop their early pressure by Decaying a Delver, discarding a Gurmag Angler, etc. However, ultimately, you are going to have to combo--and the more turns you give them to cantrip and draw cards, the more likely they find Wastelands, Edicts, countermagic, and maybe Surgicals. And eventually they'll land a threat and start clocking you. That being said, don't play into Daze if you don't need to. Don't expose Depths to a Wasteland post-board. Carefully sculpt your combo while using discard spells to keep them off balance and evaluate for the need to play around Edict with a creature or Factory. In most cases, I don't think you want the game going super long if you think you can just combo and kill them--they have better card selection. Playing against Delver is basically a balancing act and you just have to evaluate how to shift your weight based on how the game develops. Also, when we are on the play we can kind of tempo them by playing spells we don't care too much about into Daze--though knowing when to do that can be tricky. Especially if they don't have a turn 1 threat, or they don't flip their Delver, goading them into Dazing a spell can be useful on the play to gain tempo advantage and potentially set up a situation where they are strapped on mana to deploy threats, cantrip, and then have mana left over to Edict or play out a Wasteland. That's my two cents anyways :-) Good luck!

  13. #2433
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by daft View Post
    Hey guys, I had some questions about the sideboard plan and strategy versus Grixis Delver. I have been having trouble with it lately and I know it is supposed to be a good match-up.

    Here is the list I am running: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/858297#paper

    Currently, I sideboard out my fast mana, bring in abrupt decays, sylvan library, factory, and surgical. My thinking is that they have minimal outs to marit large and generally we just need to get around counter magic, wasteland, and edict. I try to force a longer game with the library advantage and use needles, surgicals, and discard to get rid of the problem cards. This used to work, but lately I just die a one to two turns before I can go off.

    What have you guys found effective in this match-up? What is your sideboard plan and how does your strategy and key cards change post-board?

    Thanks!
    Looking at a bunch of lists on MTG Top 8, the typical sideboard cards out of Grixis Delver that interact with us seem to be Surgical Extraction, Diabolic Edict, and Wasteland. In my mind this means that Delver players are so afraid of this matchup that they've started bringing in Edicts just not to be completely dead (correct me if I'm wrong). It's like you said--they have minimal outs. But you're not punishing them for having minimal outs by slowing the game down to give them more time to find what they need.

    You need to play around Wasteland, keep Dark Depths from being hit by Surgical Extraction, and keep Diabolic Edict from killing Marit Lage. I don't think that Sylvan Library and Surgical help with fighting against the cards that actually matter here, so you're overboarding and diluting the Plan A that has Delver players so scared of the deck in the first place.

    Against Grixis Delver, the only thing I've been doing is siding in the 4th Pithing Needle. I understand the desire to play some Abrupt Decays too because it's not bad to have an answer to their Pithing Needle and you do gain a lot of breathing room if you kill an early Delver, but do you *need* that breathing room? The entire point of the Delver deck is to force unnecessary 1-for-1 trades, and I think spending a card on any creature in their deck is unnecessary when you go over the top so easily (I also feel pretty bad holding Decay against Delve creatures or True-Name which is just another sort of positive trade in your opponent's favor). You're the aggressor here, don't play the game at their pace if you can help it. I'd suggest assuming that the only worthwhile target for Abrupt Decay is Pithing Needle and to sideboard accordingly (basically, the number of Abrupt Decay you bring in is up to you but I think that bringing in all of them only slows you down for no gain).

    All your discard spells and your fast mana make counterspells not very good against you (I don't like boarding out a lot of fast mana because it lets you embarrass your opponent's Dazes and other soft counters). Even then, Crop Rotation is the only card I'd ever feel bad about my opponent countering because this deck is so redundant. Play around Wasteland like you normally would, and be aware that your opponent has access to probably 1-2 removal spells for Marit Lage. Surgical Extraction may seem like a useful counter for opposing Surgical Extraction, but you could just as easily not expose your Dark Depths to Surgical Extraction by never letting it hit the graveyard until you're going to make a token and you're certain your token will survive (AKA don't even play a Dark Depths until you have to).

  14. #2434

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Is there an updated sideboarding resource for something resembling the DNSolver version? I read back through the last 12 pages and did a thread search but I couldn't quite find what I was looking for.

    Mostly interested in what to cut from the main in which match ups and where all the places I want Sylvan Library are.

    I assume the cuts are typically some of the follow:
    2+ pieces of fast mana
    Safekeepers
    Utility lands
    Some number of search (map or scrying)
    Duress

    Some of the places for cuts are obvious and some not so much and I think I have been bringing in Library maybe more than I need to (but frequently only 2).

    Thanks

  15. #2435
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Can you tell us what type of matchups you're bringing Sylvan Library in against, and what cards in your maindeck you're considering cutting in those matches?

  16. #2436

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Hey so I'm curious about why you do or dont run into the north? farseeking your basic lands or dark depths seems really good but I'm probably missing something? Also, what are this decks bad matchups?

  17. #2437

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Namida View Post
    Can you tell us what type of matchups you're bringing Sylvan Library in against, and what cards in your maindeck you're considering cutting in those matches?
    Usually I bring library in against DnT, stoneblade, Pile, Miracles, and moon stompy (to dig for decays and basics). I have also read that some people bring them in against storm and reanimator to dig for SB cards but I personally think that that's a little too slow against those decks.

    When I bring in libraries I cut down on fast mana and search effects (usually sylvan scrying), but would never cut sylvan safekeepers unless I'm playing against moon stompy because those are usually matchups where you really want safekeeper.

  18. #2438
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    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Decks to beat, wow
    Tusk Up

  19. #2439

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Hey guys, i am testing this deck to play the next GP, i have a few question about sideboarding (playing Pascal list, 4 spheres side)
    what matchups do u bring spheres? i assume elves, foodchain/aluren, storm (belcher, all spells, and that stuff) but do u bring in against UR delver, Burn, Show and Tell, Reanimator?
    Thanks

  20. #2440

    Re: [DTB] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirt View Post
    Hey guys, i am testing this deck to play the next GP, i have a few question about sideboarding (playing Pascal list, 4 spheres side)
    what matchups do u bring spheres? i assume elves, foodchain/aluren, storm (belcher, all spells, and that stuff) but do u bring in against UR delver, Burn, Show and Tell, Reanimator?
    Thanks
    I tend to avoid bringing in Sphere against Elves and Burn. I find both matchups to be pretty decent and they don't have a lot of ways to interact with your combo so what you want to be doing is making Marit Lage as soon as possible since we're usually faster than both decks.

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