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Thread: [DTB] Turbo Depths

  1. #2901

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexPants View Post
    This is what I am testing atm. I haven't been as thorough as I might want, work and all. But it has been able to out grind some grindy decks and out pace burn. Pretty pleased with it. I have talked to a few people and they have suggested at 4th urborg and doing something besides loam. The fear being that it opens up DD to surgical. So far, I haven't been using Loam as an engine, as much as game 1 surprise and to keep a land hate game going.

    I am kind of worried about missing Steppe, as that is a great surprise finisher and important in the mirror. I am not sure where I want to fit it in the 75 though. The other thing I have been kicking around is morphing this into a bit of a 2 color loam deck. Perhaps drop some of the focus on Depths, maybe go down 2 combo pieces and put in some just plain beaters.

    10 Creatures
    2 Sylvan Safekeeper
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    20 Spells
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Crop Rotation
    3 Exploration
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Assassin's Trophy
    2 Life from the Loam

    30 Lands
    2 Bayou
    1 Bojuka Bog
    4 Dark Depths
    2 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Karakas
    2 Maze of Ith
    1 Swamp
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    4 Thespian's Stage
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    15 Sideboard
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Duress
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Tireless Tracker
    Your list looks really good, having the thoughtseizes certainly helps pushing the first Marit Lage through for the win and helps against faster combo decks which we desperately need help with.

    I agree with you that Sejiri Steppe is an important card, especially since you play thoughtseize. It's also worth noting that it can save your Bob/Vampires if you really need them! I would either cut the 2nd Forest or thr 2nd Maze of ith to fit it in. The 4th Urborg could indeed be a nice inclusion to have additionnal chances to combo T2 and is never really a problem having in multiples since Mox Diamond can pitch it.

    The 2 Sylvan Safekeepers don't seem to fit too well in your list since you have recursion with Loam, you might want to consider cutting them to add more Thoughtseize effects or perhaps add the 4th Exploration & 3rd Loam?

    Otherwise, the list looks great. I'm happy you're getting success on your side as well. This deck seems to be able to play really well on so many different levels, it's a blast.

  2. #2902

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockeypr0 View Post
    Your list looks really good, having the thoughtseizes certainly helps pushing the first Marit Lage through for the win and helps against faster combo decks which we desperately need help with.

    I agree with you that Sejiri Steppe is an important card, especially since you play thoughtseize. It's also worth noting that it can save your Bob/Vampires if you really need them! I would either cut the 2nd Forest or thr 2nd Maze of ith to fit it in. The 4th Urborg could indeed be a nice inclusion to have additionnal chances to combo T2 and is never really a problem having in multiples since Mox Diamond can pitch it.

    The 2 Sylvan Safekeepers don't seem to fit too well in your list since you have recursion with Loam, you might want to consider cutting them to add more Thoughtseize effects or perhaps add the 4th Exploration & 3rd Loam?

    Otherwise, the list looks great. I'm happy you're getting success on your side as well. This deck seems to be able to play really well on so many different levels, it's a blast.
    Thanks, the list is kind of a hybrid between yours and David Long's. The 3 basics is a hedge towards trophy, but that might be not needed. I might drop to 1x safe keeper for steppe and maybe -1 forest for urborg. Also to note, Safe keeper can protect all your creatures, repeatedly. Steppe more importantly, bypasses creatures with protection, mass tokens and opposing Lage's.

    I'll test it more. I still want a decent secondary win condition in the board. Green creature package doesn't seem bad, but I think it needs something else. I am almost debating goyf.

  3. #2903
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Played at FNM, went 2-2. Beat Rug Delver and 12Post, lost a close one to Lands (made a big mistake) and lost to Miracles. I pulled out a win in every match, and i feel like practice will help my win percentages. The deck is pure gas, so much fun.

    List:
    4x hexmage
    3x bob
    1x safekeeper
    1x dryad arbor
    4x spirit guide

    4x petal
    4x crop rot
    4x thoughtseize
    2x duress
    2x cabal therapy
    3x pithing needle
    3x sylvan scrying
    1x expedition map
    1x green suns zenith

    4x depths
    4x stage
    4x verdant catacombs
    1x bayou
    1x swamp
    1x forest
    2x blooming marsh
    3x urborg
    1x gq
    1x steppe
    1x bog

    Side
    3x decay
    3x hymn
    2x rite of consumption
    2x sylvan library
    1x karakas
    2x surgical extraction
    1x golgari charm
    1x marsh casualties
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  4. #2904

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Went 4-1 at local with the followig list :


    // 60 Maindeck
    // 7 Artifact
    3 Expedition Map
    4 Pithing Needle

    // 4 Creature
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    // 4 Enchantment
    4 Sylvan Library

    // 7 Instant
    4 Crop Rotation
    3 Abrupt Decay

    // 26 Land
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Blooming Marsh
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    4 Khalni Garden
    1 Maze of Ith
    3 Llanowar Wastes

    // 12 Sorcery
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Sylvan Scrying
    3 Duress


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 3 Artifact
    SB: 3 Chalice of the Void

    // 3 Creature
    SB: 3 Sylvan Safekeeper

    // 4 Instant
    SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

    // 2 Land
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 Maze of Ith

    // 3 Sorcery
    SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
    SB: 1 Duress




    beat storm 2-1 opponent missplayed, I think I'll play some mindbreak trap instead of chalice in side, lost to moon stompy 1-2, then beat UR stiflewaste delver 2-1 (mull to 5 opponent g1 g2 double delver +wasteland and I side out needle thought he was on UR burn, g3 turn 3 token with some discards) ; miracle 2-1 (lost g1 to b2b and can't find decay, kept a greedy hand g2 with no green/black source but lot of discard surgicals/safekeeper draw my lands late in game but it still win, g3 had a good hand with double discard (kozile/cabal+garden) and a library that gets there) and grixis control 2-0 (g1 turn one discard turn 2 library turn 3 mage+depth followed by garden +discard g2 some discard he had a couple of strix had sejiri in hand he HTT a 3 cards hand but didnt hit sejiri that won me the game).

    I am playing a 3 off decay main cause I was always entering them it gains space in side for combo without reducing too much the number of tutors. I also had very problematics games against miralce (B2B specially without them).

    feel like everything is fine expect for moon stompy but if you want to beat it consistantly you have to destructure too much the deck, I prefer scooping to it for now.

    I know some people are on HTT I tested them in side and feel it was not good enough, I want something that wins if not answered vs storm and HTT is bad against reanimator.

    I have ten discard main and feel it is not enough ; but I want a different option maybe mindbreak trap or trinisphere + a one off ancient tomb might be an option.

    Second maze in side is for deathAndTaxes, I feel this matchup is winnable even without DoN but you have to be a little lucky on the oppening hand and play very properly

  5. #2905
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I think Cabal Therapy is amazing in this deck, it was so good against Miracles. I played 3 close games against Miracles, winning g2 off the back of Cabal Therapy. I definitely want a 3rd copy of that in my maindeck.

    I am trying to figure out the Lands matchup, and I have a few ideas. The big thing I realized is that Rite of Consumption isn't an out to Glacial Chasm. Lands actually has some pretty difficult ways to stack up interaction (Karakas, Wasteland, Port, Maze, Chasm.) I was playing *one* Ghost Quarter and 3 Needles. This is one matchup where I think the 4th Needle goes a long ways.

    I had a couple guys imploring me, like almost begging me, to play Assassin's Trophy in the deck. I'm still not convinced; I already have answers to the specific problems the format presents and I'm not really in the market for a 'generically' good removal spell.

    What is everyone's thoughts on AssTrophy, yes/no and why?
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  6. #2906

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I am trying to figure out the Lands matchup, and I have a few ideas. The big thing I realized is that Rite of Consumption isn't an out to Glacial Chasm. Lands actually has some pretty difficult ways to stack up interaction (Karakas, Wasteland, Port, Maze, Chasm.) I was playing *one* Ghost Quarter and 3 Needles. This is one matchup where I think the 4th Needle goes a long ways.

    I had a couple guys imploring me, like almost begging me, to play Assassin's Trophy in the deck. I'm still not convinced; I already have answers to the specific problems the format presents and I'm not really in the market for a 'generically' good removal spell.
    If you're having difficulty with the Lands matchup then perhaps that would be a compelling reason to use Assassin's Trophy?

  7. #2907
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    If you're having difficulty with the Lands matchup then perhaps that would be a compelling reason to use Assassin's Trophy?
    So far, that's the only compelling argument. I could also argue that I wouldn't be able to squeeze in more than 1-2 copies, given the need for other sideboard cards (and it would definitely be a sideboard card.) I could also accomplish the same with a 4th Needle and a 2nd Ghost Quarter in the sideboard, both of which are also decent against Death and Taxes. I could also board a 2nd Ghost Quarter and a Ramanup Excavator, which seems even better than Assassin's Trophy in a longer game.

    The other part of the argument, and one that pulls a lot of weight for me, is this: I don't face Lands very often, there is only 1 player at the local using it and maybe 2 players at any sort of larger tournament locally (50 players, on average.) Do I beef up the sideboard for that matchup? In most matchups where I want a removal spell, Abrupt Decay does the job (Blood Moon, Chalice, Back to Basics, Mentor, Baleful Strix, Delver variants.)

    What has been everyone's experience with Lands? I had quite the (almost heated) discussion with a couple local guys that said the Lands matchup is favored for Turbo Depths (same guys imploring for me to use Assassin's Trophy.) Neither has played on the Lands side and both have limited experience with Turbo. I tend to disagree, calling it maybe 50/50 g1 and slightly unfavored g2. It's always been a slog for me, a bunch of back-and-forth between me landing a Needle for one of their lands and then they draw into another piece that I need to grind through.

    TL;DR - I'm still not convinced AT is correct for this deck. Prove me wrong.
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  8. #2908
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post

    TL;DR - I'm still not convinced AT is correct for this deck. Prove me wrong.
    Just trying to understand why you still want people to convince you of a card you clearly are not willing to play? Move on. There is no law saying you have to play it so don't.
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  9. #2909
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Just trying to open discussion. I'm hoping for DNSolver and other super-experienced pilots to pipe in. I've been wrong before, I'm looking for either confirmation or debunking.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  10. #2910

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopo View Post
    Just trying to understand why you still want people to convince you of a card you clearly are not willing to play? Move on. There is no law saying you have to play it so don't.
    AT is the most flexible card ever printed. Dismissing it is fine, but dismissing it because other cards have more applications is just wong. This card deals with bridge, solitary confinement, blood moon, peacekeeper, a blocker, and many more cards in addition to all the cards that needle and GC deals with.

  11. #2911

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    AT is the most flexible card ever printed. Dismissing it is fine, but dismissing it because other cards have more applications is just wong. This card deals with bridge, solitary confinement, blood moon, peacekeeper, a blocker, and many more cards in addition to all the cards that needle and GC deals with.
    The big debate over AT is the comparison to Decay. Decay hits the vast majority of targets that hurt this deck and is uncounterable, and until just recently wasnít considered a main deck card. Trophy does few other special things, notably Jace, Angler, Batterskull and Eldrazi. The biggest distinction between the two is Trophy can hit land (duh).

    I think what Safety is getting at is more of the comparison between needle and Trophy. Needle can handle wasteland, Karakas and many of the threats that annoy this deck, but where needle really lacks is straight up land hate. There are a handful of top tier decks right now that just donít run basics. Trophy is gold here, as it is wasteland 5-8. So, I would say if you want more land hate, I would consider it.

    I am running a 2:1 split between Trophy and Decay in the main. I am specifically doing this because I am running 4 wastelands, a ghost quarter and a few loams to prey on land. I round about spoke with a David Long (3rd place at an SCG open with a grindy list) said he doesnít think this deck needs trophy. But again, I am pushing a little more land hate than the average bear.


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  12. #2912

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Also, the lands match up is all about speed. They will put grind you. So if you can hit the ground running you will be favored. They can always find an answer, but in the last few times playing them I have won because I was just plain faster. That being said I have also been hopeless wastelanded out of the game.


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  13. #2913
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I think if you're playing Wasteland you're likely avoiding Pithing Needle, at least not using it maindeck as protection from Wasteland/Karakas/etc. I don't plan on playing the slower mana-denial version at the moment, I want to keep it Turbo, but I'll keep it in mind. As additional Wastelands/land hate Trophy does seem very good, another good argument if that is a direction I want to take.

    So in regards to lands, mulligan into a fast combo?
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  14. #2914
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    My teammate plays RG Lands and he is very good at it. Based on our several match on a tournament, he likely wins if he has turn 1 Exploration. In short, if he can assemble the lock pieces (Loam + Wasteland/Ghost Quarter) or assemble the combo faster (Marit Lage) then he surely wins the match. I'm lucky if I can get a draw with him. But through experience, I am now 3-0 against his RG Lands: 2-0 every time. Faster hand, Pithing Needle (I upgraded to 4 MD), Sylvan Safekeeper, 1 Karakas (use to be in my SB) and Rite of Consumption from the SB are the reason I beat him now. He haven't had good finish with RG Lands that's why he changed deck and now plays PW (7 MD) BUG Lands. We already faced twice in a tournament and I lost twice to him. He made it to top 8 yesterday in our local tournament (I was 9th). His list has 4 Chalice, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Edict, 3 Abrupt, 2 JTMS, 2 LotV, 1 Pernicious Deed, 4 Wasteland, 1 GQ, 2 Loam, 1 Karakas, 1 Maze of Ith MD. I think he got the idea from Lincoln Baxter.

    I'm going to put 2 Assassin's Trophy in my SB since I have space now because I'm going to put in 3 Abrupt Decay MD.

  15. #2915

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Heya peeps,

    I found that with the (traditional) lands match up you can prevent them from comboing game one by naming thespian stage with needle and this should also stop them winning unless they have a stage out already and copy something with it. Apart from punishing fire I donít think thereís anyway they can win from there as K grips are in sideboard. Game two is a bit different as they can deal with the needle...

    Hope this helps 👍

  16. #2916
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Most lists use Molten Vortex x1 in the main, sometimes a 2nd in the side. With Loam, that's a pretty fast clock. I'm not saying it's consistent, but it's a way to kill us if they can buy enough time with Wasteland/Port. Good call on the Needle naming Stage; it's risky because we HAVE to draw into Hexmage, but it can work. This is one matchup where 4 Needles is ideal. I might get the 4th one back into the sideboard.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  17. #2917

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I streamed with Assassin's Trophy last night. Catch those games - the first league I played two in the board, second league one in the board while trying Togores' list.

    Edit: Yes, Lands will kill you with Punishing Fire. Needling Stage doesn't do anything to stop them from winning. Needling the effects that they have that you can't beat, such as infinite Ghost Quarters / Wastelands, is more effective for most builds of Depths.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

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  18. #2918

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Using Punishing Fire as a killcon in Lands happens, with 6 manasources (2RRR+grove) and 2 Punishing Fires you do three damage a turn. That's why I don't think Needling Stage will help you win the Lands matchup, thei're probably better spent in helping you win faster (naming waste/quarter/maze/Karakas?), as you probably want to avoid the long game.

  19. #2919
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    I streamed with Assassin's Trophy last night. Catch those games - the first league I played two in the board, second league one in the board while trying Togores' list.

    Edit: Yes, Lands will kill you with Punishing Fire. Needling Stage doesn't do anything to stop them from winning. Needling the effects that they have that you can't beat, such as infinite Ghost Quarters / Wastelands, is more effective for most builds of Depths.
    Will it be available on YouTube, or was it Twitch only? Thanks for piping in.

    Also, what was your conclusion? Was it worth it's slots?
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 10-18-2018 at 12:16 PM.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  20. #2920

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I've replaced Grip with Trophy in my board. So far, its been alright
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    Decks: Turbo Depths, Miracoli Miracoli, Eldrazi Post, Czech Pile, Death and Taxes, Mono Red Storm,

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