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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Depths

  1. #2881

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I’ve given a list with 4 Assassin’s Trophies a whirl today, and I’ve certainly enjoyed its versatility. Sure, it’s removed stuff that could have been taken care of by the usual suspects, but I’ve also used it on a threatening Gurmag Angler when I was struggling to put my combo together. One could argue it would have been better to draw said combo piece rather than the Trophy, but again, the versatility is great. It’s truly amazing to have a card in hand that can deal with ANYTHING.

    On the other hand, it slows the deck a lot, as two colored reactive mana is a lot more than one colorless “preventive” mana for a Pithing Needle. I also met a elves deck that was packing it, I assume as a 4-of, and it ran me over. Sure, discard helps, but the fact they can respond by targeting any useful land you might already have in play if they feel like slowing you down really hurts.

    I haven’t played much Depth in the past, so maybe I don’t have enough of a framework to work with, but I’d be surprised if the Trophy does not impact it one way or another, that card is something special.

  2. #2882
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfy View Post
    I’ve given a list with 4 Assassin’s Trophies a whirl today, and I’ve certainly enjoyed its versatility. Sure, it’s removed stuff that could have been taken care of by the usual suspects, but I’ve also used it on a threatening Gurmag Angler when I was struggling to put my combo together. One could argue it would have been better to draw said combo piece rather than the Trophy, but again, the versatility is great. It’s truly amazing to have a card in hand that can deal with ANYTHING.

    On the other hand, it slows the deck a lot, as two colored reactive mana is a lot more than one colorless “preventive” mana for a Pithing Needle. I also met a elves deck that was packing it, I assume as a 4-of, and it ran me over. Sure, discard helps, but the fact they can respond by targeting any useful land you might already have in play if they feel like slowing you down really hurts.

    I haven’t played much Depth in the past, so maybe I don’t have enough of a framework to work with, but I’d be surprised if the Trophy does not impact it one way or another, that card is something special.
    The card is probably best for Depths as a sideboard card imo. The main deck can stay lean and focus on the kill. I'm testing a 2/2 Decay/Trophy split in the SB. It's great vs the non blue decks, but I prefer Decay when looking for answers to things like BTB/Counterbalance or creatures out of the tempo decks (shadow, etc). Trophy is flat out nuts in anything remotely resembling the mirror.

  3. #2883
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Negator77' View Post
    The card is probably best for Depths as a sideboard card imo. The main deck can stay lean and focus on the kill. I'm testing a 2/2 Decay/Trophy split in the SB. It's great vs the non blue decks, but I prefer Decay when looking for answers to things like BTB/Counterbalance or creatures out of the tempo decks (shadow, etc). Trophy is flat out nuts in anything remotely resembling the mirror.
    Does it improve the Lands matchup? That always seemed very difficult to grind through for me, especially if they get a t1 Exploration. I'm on the prowl for ways to fight Miracles too (which is why I'm on confidant) if you have any suggestions.
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Does it improve the Lands matchup? That always seemed very difficult to grind through for me, especially if they get a t1 Exploration. I'm on the prowl for ways to fight Miracles too (which is why I'm on confidant) if you have any suggestions.
    Miracles: Sylvan Library, Bitterblossom, Choke
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Sylvan Library is a given, Choke is *ok*, Bitterblossom is good. I've tried them all. Library is a staple, and is fine if I resolve it. Choke is actually a decent idea to try again, but I don't know how to find room in the sideboard. I'm already crammed tight.

    Suggestions for how to work in Choke?

    3x Abrupt Decay
    3x Hymn to Tourach
    2x Rite of Consumption
    1x Karakas
    2x Golgari Charm
    2x Sylvan Library
    2x Surgical Extraction
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  6. #2886
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Does it improve the Lands matchup? That always seemed very difficult to grind through for me, especially if they get a t1 Exploration. I'm on the prowl for ways to fight Miracles too (which is why I'm on confidant) if you have any suggestions.
    I believe it does. They usually board in Trackers which is another annoying engine even if you Surgical their Loams. Previously, you either had to ignore it (aka win before they find it and it takes over), get lucky and nab it with discard, or run decays that are very mediocre in the mu. Trophy cleanly answers Tracker while hitting any of their lands, exploration, and any other random permanents that pop up. There will always be a good use for Trophy in the mu unless they lock you out before you get to BG mana.

    As far as miracles goes, I like the mu vs the current AK version... but I'm on blue spells, so the mu is very different compared to BG. The traditional ways strong BG players have fought Miracles are Bob, Sylvan, Rite, etc.

  7. #2887
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Negator77' View Post
    I believe it does. They usually board in Trackers which is another annoying engine even if you Surgical their Loams. Previously, you either had to ignore it (aka win before they find it and it takes over), get lucky and nab it with discard, or run decays that are very mediocre in the mu. Trophy cleanly answers Tracker while hitting any of their lands, exploration, and any other random permanents that pop up. There will always be a good use for Trophy in the mu unless they lock you out before you get to BG mana.

    As far as miracles goes, I like the mu vs the current AK version... but I'm on blue spells, so the mu is very different compared to BG. The traditional ways strong BG players have fought Miracles are Bob, Sylvan, Rite, etc.
    Thanks for that, it might be the first actually good argument for AssTrophy in a specific matchup. The miracles approach I have seems to check out, I have all of those elements (plus Hymn to Tourach for combo decks that incidentally hits Miracles as well.)
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I'm heading to FNM this week, taking this deck. Hope to do well, maybe pick up another Safekeeper if the shop has one.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  9. #2889

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'm heading to FNM this week, taking this deck. Hope to do well, maybe pick up another Safekeeper if the shop has one.
    Wish you great success dude!
    How many Safekeepers do you own? I think you should be fine with two. I have tested Trophy in the main. I did a 3/2 Splitt of Needle and Trophy and wasn`t really impressed. Most of the time it doesn`t do anything that needle couldn`t have done too, or better. Needle is faster, pro active, which saves you your mana for your combo turn and colorless mana is easier to spend often times. I haven`t seen random stuff like Humility, that Decay couldn`t hit. Yes it`s never dead, but in a few situations the color combination was a bit of a problem. I think it`s a really good card for the side not for main. On the other hand, did you guys have much trouble with opponent`s Trophys?

  10. #2890
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhole View Post
    Wish you great success dude!
    How many Safekeepers do you own? I think you should be fine with two. I have tested Trophy in the main. I did a 3/2 Splitt of Needle and Trophy and wasn`t really impressed. Most of the time it doesn`t do anything that needle couldn`t have done too, or better. Needle is faster, pro active, which saves you your mana for your combo turn and colorless mana is easier to spend often times. I haven`t seen random stuff like Humility, that Decay couldn`t hit. Yes it`s never dead, but in a few situations the color combination was a bit of a problem. I think it`s a really good card for the side not for main. On the other hand, did you guys have much trouble with opponent`s Trophys?
    I have 1 currently, with a copy of Green Sun's Zenith to fetch it out. It actually worked out well because I also maindecked a Dryad Arbor, which is another form of acceleration with GSZ. The maindeck Arbor also supports some doubled Cabal Therapy's. I toyed with doing a small toolbox, but meh, I think just getting another Safekeeper is the way to go.

    I don't have any Assassin's Trophy's yet, and I predict the LGS will be sold out. I'm waiting until I see a good reason to buy them (the Lands matchup might push me over the edge.)
    Brainstorm Realist

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  11. #2891

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    I am trying to come up with a backup plan for the sideboard. I am nervous about Ego being played in delver, and Grixis control. Also elves just being able to slow us down with trophy to the point they go off.

    Right now I am just thinking Lily TLH and crucible effects. I used to have trackers, which were awesome in the mirror.


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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexPants View Post
    I am trying to come up with a backup plan for the sideboard. I am nervous about Ego being played in delver, and Grixis control. Also elves just being able to slow us down with trophy to the point they go off.

    Right now I am just thinking Lily TLH and crucible effects. I used to have trackers, which were awesome in the mirror.


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    Ego? Did you mean Diabolic Edict?

    Lily TLH seems solid, but it definitely puts you on the grinding plan. The biggest reason for me playing 2x Golgari Charm isn't just D&T, it also slows the Elves deck down a turn or 2. I'm not sure about the matchup, having yet to play it. The crucible effect I think we want is Ramanup Excavator, something I really want to jam in my sideboard but godammnit I can't find a slot to cut for it.
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  13. #2893

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Ego? Did you mean Diabolic Edict?

    Lily TLH seems solid, but it definitely puts you on the grinding plan. The biggest reason for me playing 2x Golgari Charm isn't just D&T, it also slows the Elves deck down a turn or 2. I'm not sure about the matchup, having yet to play it. The crucible effect I think we want is Ramanup Excavator, something I really want to jam in my sideboard but godammnit I can't find a slot to cut for it.
    Ego = Unmoored Ego

    As for Elves, if you're on the traditional Turbo plan then it's a good matchup for us. We're typically a turn faster and G1 they have no ways to meaningfully interact with our combo. Double Golgari Charm seems excessive in an unknown meta at least.

  14. #2894
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by filln View Post
    Ego = Unmoored Ego

    As for Elves, if you're on the traditional Turbo plan then it's a good matchup for us. We're typically a turn faster and G1 they have no ways to meaningfully interact with our combo. Double Golgari Charm seems excessive in an unknown meta at least.
    It takes the slots usually dedicated to Dread of Night. Doesn't seem excessive to me at all; in fact, I feel like it might not be enough based on how popular D&T has become.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  15. #2895

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Does it improve the Lands matchup? That always seemed very difficult to grind through for me, especially if they get a t1 Exploration. I'm on the prowl for ways to fight Miracles too (which is why I'm on confidant) if you have any suggestions.
    I might be late for this, but yes, I believe Assassin's Trophy improves the Miracles matchup. It'll do nothing to speed your game, and admittedly might even slow you down (by taking the place of a tutor or an accelerant), but it has been helpful in every game I have against them by taking away something important as the game was going long, usually a planeswalker or Azcanta.

    At first, that might not seem much, as these cards are not direct threats, but stopping them from turning the corner after depleting their hands either through discard or simply by forcing them to counter your stuff has been key for me: when the combo comes, sometimes for the second time, they're defenceless. I have tried the alternative of putting pressure through Bitterblossom, and I think it's equally valid, but it's not nearly as versatile. Talking from a MODO perspective, this is even more true with Azorius Helm becoming a thing (again?).

  16. #2896

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockeypr0 View Post
    Hey guys, I've been on a mission to find the sweet spot between Lands and Turbo depths and finally found a balance. I've been playing similar lists for a couple months now but the most recent David Long lists have really inspired the kind of playstyle I was looking for. GB Turbo Lands has the advantage of being more "Turbo" than conventionnal RG, and is more resilient/grindy/controllish than Turbo. Here's the list I've been up to this past week :

    Land (35)
    1x Barren Moor
    2x Bayou
    1x Bojuka Bog
    1x Cabal Pit
    4x Dark Depths
    1x Forest
    3x Ghost Quarter
    1x Glacial Chasm
    1x Horizon Canopy
    1x Karakas
    2x Maze of Ith
    1x Swamp
    4x Thespian's Stage
    1x Tranquil Thicket
    4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4x Wasteland
    2x Windswept Heath
    1x Wooded Foothills

    Enchantment (5)

    4x Exploration
    1x Manabond

    Creature (8)

    4x Dark Confidant
    4x Vampire Hexmage

    Instant (4)

    4x Crop Rotation

    Sorcery (4)

    4x Life from the Loam

    Artifact (4)

    4x Mox Diamond

    Sideboard (15)

    3x Abrupt Decay
    1x Ancient Tomb
    1x Choke
    2x Dread of Night
    1x Krosan Grip
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    3x Sphere of Resistance
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Tireless Tracker

    I've been lucky enough to summon Marit Lage on T1 twice last week ( "Mox Mox DD Vamp Land Land Land" and also "Land Urborg DD Thespian Manabond" on T1. The deck is also very grindy but relies heavily on the graveyard for card advantage and recusion. With the arrival of Bob, I can now stop relying on my graveyard and play a similar game as "Slow depths". I feel like Bob is really the glue that holds this deck together flipping cards for zero and beating with Hexmage (if needs be) will eventuslly kill your opponent (which I couldn't really do with my last list). There's also a lot of versatility with the lands package. I didn't include Tabernacle since my draws are very often quick enough to kill on T3-4 so Glacial Chasm and 2 Maze of iths is enough for protection (1 knight will kill fast and be almost unaffected by Tabernacle). In long games, I have the 7 land destruction package to grind my opponent to a zero land board, etc.

    The main reason for my post is basically to get knowledge on how to play agaisnt UB shadow decks. I feel overwhelmed by their 2-3 threats and Glacial Chasm doesn't keep me safe because of their wastelands. They also disrupt the combo (with wasteland or counterspell my crop of rotation) so it's been a tough matchup. What kind of plays should I try to do in order to improve my matches?
    I decided to give this deck a try and it is very interesting. Much faster than I thought it would be and even successfully won a game off of Bob beats while threatening a combo. I haven't played against UB shadow yet or any delver for that matter ( 2x burn, UB artifacts and some leyline jank) but I think you need Ass Trophy. It is such a good card. I think glacial chasm is a bad card in this deck. We don't have a lock with it like RG lands does. They can slowly do 1-2 points of damage a turn using punishing fire where GB can't. Needle goes a long way to help stop them in the stock list, but my fear with this deck is it doesn't have main deck answers to tempo. With punishing fire, you can generate card advantage and act as removal for their smaller threats. Part of me wonders if doing something crazy like a Jund build might work. The punishing fires are really key IMO. But if you can blend in black to give some speed and allow for decay or trophy that might be spicy. Seems like a hard mana base though.

    *edit: the one thing I do see is, you need tabernacle in the main. It is such a hugely powerful card that it shouldn't really be overlooked. It makes delver decks cry.

  17. #2897

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Small update to the post above:

    Beat UB shadow 2-1 (both wins post board), 4C Loam 2-0, lost to BR Reanimator 2-0 and SnS 1-2. Blood moon is still a big problem. I have moved 2 AT and 1 AD to main and I am trying out discard at the expense of loam and exploration.

    I am going much more the mana denial plan with this deck, which may be wrong, but there are a lot of mana greedy decks since DRS has gone away. Still haven't played miracles, D&T or other delver variants.

  18. #2898

    [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Sry....double post
    Last edited by ComplexPants; 10-08-2018 at 10:16 PM.

  19. #2899
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Well, once again I am going to try and get to FNM this week. I'm chomping at the bit get some real testing of Cabal Therapy/maindeck Dryad Arbor.
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  20. #2900

    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    This is what I am testing atm. I haven't been as thorough as I might want, work and all. But it has been able to out grind some grindy decks and out pace burn. Pretty pleased with it. I have talked to a few people and they have suggested at 4th urborg and doing something besides loam. The fear being that it opens up DD to surgical. So far, I haven't been using Loam as an engine, as much as game 1 surprise and to keep a land hate game going.

    I am kind of worried about missing Steppe, as that is a great surprise finisher and important in the mirror. I am not sure where I want to fit it in the 75 though. The other thing I have been kicking around is morphing this into a bit of a 2 color loam deck. Perhaps drop some of the focus on Depths, maybe go down 2 combo pieces and put in some just plain beaters.

    10 Creatures
    2 Sylvan Safekeeper
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Hexmage

    20 Spells
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Crop Rotation
    3 Exploration
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Assassin's Trophy
    2 Life from the Loam

    30 Lands
    2 Bayou
    1 Bojuka Bog
    4 Dark Depths
    2 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Karakas
    2 Maze of Ith
    1 Swamp
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    4 Thespian's Stage
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    15 Sideboard
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Dread of Night
    2 Duress
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Tireless Tracker

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