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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Depths

  1. #3181

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    More about defending lands. I have recently bought an oldie: Pyramids. any chance to use it?

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  2. #3182

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    explosion zone will clearly see plays in depth at least a one off maindeck, finally a land that can kill everything from needle to b2b, bridge balance creatures...

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler...r-of-the-spark

    i tested a bit the card it is too slow but might have a slot in side
    Last edited by adrieng; 04-18-2019 at 03:24 AM.

  3. #3183
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    explosion zone will clearly see plays in depth at least a one off maindeck, finally a land that can kill everything from needle to b2b, bridge balance creatures...

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler...r-of-the-spark
    Yeah, i'm definitely going to nab a copy. Not sure if its main or side material as of yet, leaning towards side.
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  4. #3184

    [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Yeah, i'm definitely going to nab a copy. Not sure if its main or side material as of yet, leaning towards side.
    Iím not gonna play a single copy. I want my removal to kill
    1) blood moon
    2) bridge / elephant grass
    3) wastelands
    4) other lockpieces and hatebears
    5) threats to buy time

    Thus i will keep playing trophy and decay. It looks strong in lands who already played ee in some lists and can recur it with Loam.

  5. #3185
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    explosion zone will clearly see plays in depth at least a one off maindeck, finally a land that can kill everything from needle to b2b, bridge balance creatures...

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler...r-of-the-spark

    The card is glacially slow. It takes tapping 4 lands (sacrificing zone) to kill a 1 drop or 2... tapping four lands twice + sac to kill 2 drops..etc. What match-ups does that actually help in? What are the best case scenario in those mu's? This is a card that is more likely to be used and help dedicated Life From the Loam decks that take on more of a control role at times and where it can be recurred in my opinion.

    As an aside since you specifically mention the card, this card is terrible vs Back to Basics. Unless you are already way ahead and have it out AND powered up to 3 counters before Back to Basics hits that table, it will never be able to untap to be used with 3 counters.

  6. #3186
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Well, that settles it. I don't need to waste my time on the card. Well reasoned and clear, this new land doesn't solve any problems or upgrade any tech.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  7. #3187

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Abrupt Decay/Trophy already solves most of our issues.
    Solnox on MTGO

    Miracles is a good matchup for depths. Quote me on this

    Griselbrand is not an interesting creature.

    Dread it. Run from it. Marit Lage still arrives

  8. #3188
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    explosion zone will clearly see plays in depth at least a one off maindeck, finally a land that can kill everything from needle to b2b, bridge balance creatures...

    https://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler...r-of-the-spark
    This is pretty slow. I think the best case scenario is to crop rotation it into play and add two counters EOT and then pop it next turn. It's not really a land you ever want to draw because it's another colorless land. It does nothing against combo decks and doens't really help against Blood Moon decks / D&T. Too slow against D&T with their wastelands and flickerwisps. This probably falls into the same category as pernicious deed. Should see play as it has good applications but it's too slow for what we want.

    I think the best part about it is that it can't be countered so it helps against control matches but I think it's not great in other matches.
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  9. #3189
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Has anyone been testing this with the London mulligan? I've done a few goldfish games and it definitely feels better after a mulligan. If the London mulligan goes live for legacy i think i'll end up either cutting dark confidant or sideboarding some number.

    I'm not looking to open a can of worms in the mulligan in general, just how it might affect this deck in particular.
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  10. #3190
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Has anyone been testing this with the London mulligan? I've done a few goldfish games and it definitely feels better after a mulligan. If the London mulligan goes live for legacy i think i'll end up either cutting dark confidant or sideboarding some number.

    I'm not looking to open a can of worms in the mulligan in general, just how it might affect this deck in particular.
    I'm up about 6% over my average win rate with the London mulligan. Its a very small sample size, but I think the rule is good for depths (full disclosure, I dislike it personally for the format). Two pieces of it specifically are very good for Depths. The first is the scry rule going away makes turn 1 discard much better since opponents don't get to hide powerful cards on top. Choosing the best 6 out of 7 (or 5 out of 7, etc) leaves all of their cards vulnerable to discard. A rule that encourages aggressive mulligans plays to the advantage of discard spells generally as well. The second is A + B combo decks that aren't vulnerable to crazy hate cards like Leyline feel great. Depths easily can assemble a devastating 5 card hand. Having three or more looks at 7 cards makes it very likely that you will start just about every game with a path to the combo plus a disruption piece.

  11. #3191
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Negator77' View Post
    I'm up about 6% over my average win rate with the London mulligan. Its a very small sample size, but I think the rule is good for depths (full disclosure, I dislike it personally for the format). Two pieces of it specifically are very good for Depths. The first is the scry rule going away makes turn 1 discard much better since opponents don't get to hide powerful cards on top. Choosing the best 6 out of 7 (or 5 out of 7, etc) leaves all of their cards vulnerable to discard. A rule that encourages aggressive mulligans plays to the advantage of discard spells generally as well. The second is A + B combo decks that aren't vulnerable to crazy hate cards like Leyline feel great. Depths easily can assemble a devastating 5 card hand. Having three or more looks at 7 cards makes it very likely that you will start just about every game with a path to the combo plus a disruption piece.
    I agree on both points. I was thinking it makes this deck better, and you are confirming it with actual data. I also generally dislike the change for the format as a whole, especially considering the incentive to play Moon Stompy gets more enticing with more consistent t1 Chalice/Moon games. (Possibly our worst matchup?)

    If the rule goes live, I think the numbers get a little harder to nail down for discard and tutors. I've been on 7 discard for a while, but given the nature of opponent's having more incentive to mulligan I think I'd want 8 for maximum disruption. I've also been on 7 tutors forever (4 CR/3 Scrying) but I think I might want to shave that down. With more opportunities to mulligan into a combo + disruption with a 5-6 card hand I think the 'slower' route of tutoring for combo pieces becomes a little less important. All theoretical of course, I'm just spitballing here. I'm curious if any ratios really need to change, but it feels like we can get a little greedier, squeezing utility disruption into another 1-2 slots maindeck because it's a little easier to mull into a great hand.

    In particular, I'm wondering if Abrupt Decay/Assassin's Trophy are maindeck cards now that Moon Stompy is more dangerous, probably one of our worst matchups. Same with combo decks that are slightly faster, they are a little more consistent now as well (hence going back to 8 discard.)

    Thoughts anyone? Can we be a little 'looser' with the maindeck with a more consistent mulligan available or am I nuts?
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 04-22-2019 at 03:43 PM.
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  12. #3192
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    If anyone is interested, I finally upgraded my ancient setup enough to handle it and started streaming BUG Depths once a week at twitch.tv/negator77. The last two weeks vods are up at https://www.twitch.tv/negator77/videos. The one from last week was part BUG and part meme (Slow Depths with a Pack Rat SB plan league with DNSolver). This week was six BUG league matches with Miracles master Lawrence Harmon.

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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    sorry for my english, and for the post if it is repeated. I wonder if there is any link to the discord?

  14. #3194
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    Re: [DTB] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by silasteamtop View Post
    sorry for my english, and for the post if it is repeated. I wonder if there is any link to the discord?
    https://discord.gg/t8sj4B

    There is a Depths section in the Lands discord

  15. #3195

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    force of vigor might see play in side for moon stompy/artifacts decks.
    You don't even need green to cast it ! Might take the decay slot but not sure yet, testing will tell !

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    force of vigor might see play in side for moon stompy/artifacts decks.
    You don't even need green to cast it ! Might take the decay slot but not sure yet, testing will tell !
    I like it quite a bit, especially versions committed to a full set of Elvish Spirit Guides.

    EDIT: the new Engineered Plague with legs is also a strong card, possibly replacing some number of Dread of Night or wipers like Toxic Deluge for the D&T matchup. Collateral damage to Elves, Merfolk, TNN, and Pyromancer tokens.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 05-24-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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  17. #3197
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    There is a 1K coming up on 6/15 and I think I'm bringing Turbo Depths. I play maindeck Abrupt Decay x2 so I have room in my sideboard for Force of Vigor, probably 2-3 copies. I don't know if it will be available by then, but if it is I will be doing my damndest to get them for that tournament. I'm not completely sold on Plague Engineer yet, I'll still likely play with some number of Toxic Deluge/Golgari Charm in the sideboard.

    One thing I know for sure: I want Sylvan Library maindeck. In the last tournament I went 3-3 and I boarded in Library in almost every post-board game. It does so much for the deck that I think it's worth maindeck slots. I am trimming an ESG (down to 3) and a Sylvan Scrying (down to 2) to make room for it.
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  18. #3198

    NON-Turbo Depths

    Hello, I'm building a non-turbo decklists (without ESG and Petals but playing DMoxes and Bobs).

    What is your opinion about to incorporate these 4CLoam tools to our Dark Depths deck?

    I would like to find Primer or advices about how to pilot this variant.

    Thanks.

  19. #3199
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by malekith View Post
    Hello, I'm building a non-turbo decklists (without ESG and Petals but playing DMoxes and Bobs).

    What is your opinion about to incorporate these 4CLoam tools to our Dark Depths deck?

    I would like to find Primer or advices about how to pilot this variant.

    Thanks.
    The variants of Depths decks are all meta calls at this point, which means all of the information in this thread is still super relevant for the most part. With the addition of the "4 color Loam" tools you are switching your disruption from Pithing Needle to Wasteland which, depending on your meta could be a good thing or a bad thing.

    Honestly most of the Gx decks are on a Spectrum and imho goes from Maverick > Aggro Loam > Lands > Depths and each list is only a few steps from the next list down the line. If you incorporate too much of the "4 Color loam tools" you risk playing a worse version of either deck. One of my favorite aspects of the Depths decks is that they were always able to play a high number of basics, which is a must in most meta's.

    I am also not exactly sure what "tools" you are looking to incorporate into your Dark Depths list but a spectrum of cards for current depths lists

    Turbo - ESG/Lotus Petal - Fastest Kill, in meta's with lots of combo disruption is discard and Pithing needle in addition to CR Package.

    Medium - ESG/Lotus Petal + Dark Confidant - in meta's where you need to respect combo but still want a grind/plan b with confidant. Great in the mirror. Disruption is same as turbo with needles/discard/CR - This build is the most similar to the DRS lists.

    Slow- Mox Diamonds + Dark Confidant - this is the most variable build. Disruption is Wasteland and discard can be hymn or just 1cc. The most testing is currently in this realm since the DRS banning. Can also see blue splash for BS/Stifle. This has been the most successful and played variant since the Banning, that being said, the list is in no way finished at this point.

    What are you looking for in addition?
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  20. #3200
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post

    Medium - ESG/Lotus Petal + Dark Confidant - in meta's where you need to respect combo but still want a grind/plan b with confidant. Great in the mirror. Disruption is same as turbo with needles/discard/CR - This build is the most similar to the DRS lists.
    @Malekith:

    This is the version I use at my LGS. I may use it this coming weekend for a 1K, but I might also play Punishing Maverick. If I play it I'll post a list and results if anyone is interested. Can confirm it is favored in the mirror by quite a bit.
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