[Deck] Turbo Depths

[drynne_]

This is solnox's guide from a while ago.

I know it’s not up to date, but this is a huge help! Thank you!

[solnox]

@apple feel free to use my/jdms sb guide in the primer. I havent updated it in a while but it should still be mostly relevant. 2 months isn't a long time but the rise of mono red prison needs some looking at

[Cyrus]

Folks, g'night. I've searched through the thread and checked some lists online and I stumbled on this decklist, that recently top4ed a MKM series tournament: https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/dark-dep...-lakany-745718

That list is heavily budgeted, and it kinda got me into the possibility of building this deck (starting on legacy right now is kinda hard for me, I have one deck built and I'd love to be able to start getting into another archetype). Anyways, basing myself off that list, I built another, that has some slight differences, specially in the sb. I'd love to now if I'm way off in these modifications, or if I'm in the right direction. I did not really understand his sideboard, and I tended to copy the sb from the latest list on MTGGoldfish (this one for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1095567#paper )

The list I came up with is this one: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1110451#paper

Now, I'm running a single Sylvan Library in the md, and I feel like I need another one in the 75, what should I cut to make room for it? Is it necessary to run 4 lotus petals? In the few times I played online with the deck, I faced MonoR Prison a lot and got pretty much stomped, is it worth it to dedicate more slots to the sb to try to counter blood moon/magus? Any matchups that I'm not considering in regards to my sb? Thanks a lot for any input, any help is appreciated.

[Ultrab77]

On top of the budget depths, 2 "slow depths" top 8'd this event
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19262&d=322136&f=LE

[malekith]

In the MKM series Hamburg, the list classified 2nd is -as Ultrab77 says- a "Slow" list (removes the ESGs and the Petals) but he's not playing Bobs.
-Change the Thoughtseize set for a Cabal Therapy set
-Play the DRSs and two GSZs including also singleton R.Port and Ramunap Excavator.

the Gaddock Teeg he is sideboarding will be a bit more difficult to cast without Petals and without Karakas...only the Steppe (or other land copied with Thespian) to obtain white

It is an interesting list, you can find it here

[ChrisDissent]

the Gaddock Teeg he is sideboarding will be a bit more difficult to cast without Petals and without Karakas...only the Steppe (or other land copied with Thespian) to obtain white here

Green Sun's Zenith ;)

[perian]

And DRS for W

[Ultrab77]

Where is Teeg the most relevant? Storm & Elves?

[theMonster]

I’d love some insights on the Lands matchup. I feel pretty comfortable navigating most other matchups, but I don’t yet feel confident in my keep/mull decisions and overall pacing of a game against Lands. For reference, my list and sideboard plan:

4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Thespian’s Stage
4 Dark Depths
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Seijiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage

3 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map

1 Sylvan Library

4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Collective Brutality
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying

// sideboard //

1 Karakas
1 Field of Ruin
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Sylvan Library
2 Bitterblossom

Lands:
-3 Petal, -4 ESG, -1 Brutality, -1 Depths, -2 Duress
+1 Karakas, +1 Field, +2 Surgical, +3 Decay, +1 Safekeeper, +1 Library, +2 Bitterblossom

Field of Ruin has been nice because I can name Wasteland and Ghost Quarter with Needles while still having an out to a Glacial Chasm. I’m not sure if bringing in Bitterblossom is correct. I guess I’m assuming that most Lands players take out Tabernacle and some number of P-Fires — is this right? I’ve read that some people leave in Spirit Guides for the beats, so I figured Bitterblossom accomplishes a similar thing while being a little more resilient (but slow). If I see ‘Nacle in game 2, I assume I should probably board out Bitterblossom in game 3.

Regarding keep/mull decisions, I assume i’m looking for hands with value and defensive cards: Library, Needle, Surgical, etc. My big question is how quickly/slowly I should advance my game plan on average. I figure I can’t take forever because I can’t win through a Wasteland/GQ lock, but I can’t be too reckless neither because I could just die — is that in the ballpark? I tend to have Library in the games I win (surprise), or I thwart a major angle of attack with Surgical or Needle. I assume I have to mull to these cards, right?

Many thanks, y’all!

[lavafrogg]

I am going to stream the Dark Confidant version of this deck, as well as David Long's version, today on my stream. Starting soon.

twitch.tv/dnsolver

Do you have the VOD of this? I am interested in the DC version of the deck and would love to see it in action.

[pedro]

I'm going to build this deck. I come from D&T, i really like it but sometimes i would like to play a combo deck.
I need a suggestion, cause bayou is very expensive. I would like to know if you think that the "turbo version" (no shamans) could play with 2 bayou instead of 3 or if 3 bayou are necessary.
I just need some opinion.

[theMonster]

I'm going to build this deck. I come from D&T, i really like it but sometimes i would like to play a combo deck.
I need a suggestion, cause bayou is very expensive. I would like to know if you think that the "turbo version" (no shamans) could play with 2 bayou instead of 3 or if 3 bayou are necessary.
I just need some opinion.

I'm playing 2 Bayou, 1 Blooming Marsh, and it's been fine. I wouldn't go below 2 Bayou, though.

[Baum]

2 Bayous are fine. You can play Blooming Marsh or Llanowar Wastes over the 3rd Bayou. It's even possible to do well without duals at all: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19262&d=322137&f=LE ;)

[solnox]

Went 5-0-2 at Channel Fireball's 2k event yesterday of I think 70 people? Not too sure

4 Pithing Needle
3 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Dark Depths
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Sylvan Library
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
2 Expedition Map
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Rite of Consumption
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Sylvan Safekeeper



Round 1: U/R Painter w/Moon, Bridge, Intuition, Welder 2-1
G1: Thoughtseize shows Moon+Bridge and I'm already sweating. I take the moon and make a T3 Marit Lage hoping he bricks on land. He bricks and I get there

G2: I T1 Fetch a dual to thoughtseize after he mulled to 6 scry bottom and played an ancient tomb. If i fetched a basic I cant cast Library while the rest of the hand was multicolor. I get punished when his hand revealed 2x Blood Moon but no red source. He peels a fetch off the top and slams moon. I stay in the game for a while as I have needle and manage to fetch out a green source with expedition map.I play library but he EOT Blasts my Needle with painter on board and grindstone in hand. GG

G3: I have the nutters of Fetch basic seize the moon leave him with bridge. T2 Forest, scrying for Urborg, T3: Hexmage eot roto after he plays bridge. T4: Decay bridge gg

Round 2: Goblins 2-0
G1: I lead with a duress that takes an Aether vial and his hand basically does nothing. He eventually gets to lackey attack in put in a settler he fetched w/Matron and strip my stage. Luckily I drew a hexmage earlier and played it and made the token while his wasteland was tapped. He doesnt draw stingscourger and I win

G2: I T1 Seize after he does nothing T1 and see Abrade/Spyglass/Thalia/Port/land. I take the spyglass and run out a petal to avoid thalia. He plays Thalia and I use the petal to scrying for a Depths. He attacks with Thalia and ports my bayou on upkeep. I rotate for an urborg and play depths+Hexmage. Make on Main phase to dodge wasteland. He again does not have stingscourger

Round 3 : Bant Deathblade 2-0 (He makes Top 8 as well)
G1: I run out my T1 Library off Petal. T2 Hexmage gets dazed. T3 Hexmage resolves +play depths. He plays a wasteland and passes. I draw for turn say go and he taps out his colored sources for a leovold. I rotate for a Ghost Quarter and pop his waste. Hexmage in response and win.

G2: I mull to 5 and eventually we have a board state of GQ/Forest/Bayou/Stage/Urborg. Hes at 8 or so after librarying a bunch but just equipped a jitte on a sfm. I GQ his 1 white untapped source in 2nd Main Phase go to EOT Crop rotate for Depths after he fails to find basic. he dazes, I pay with urborg and I make Lage. He didnt realize that I had enough mana and had the ability to 2nd daze.

Better lucky than good

Round 4: Punishing Maverick 2-0
G1: I run t1 land, into T2 Karakas his thalia, Thoughtseize him T3 seeing 2x Jitte, Fire, Pridemage, Thalia. I take the Pridemage and he has no clock. Eventually he draws a KOTR but I have needle for it and the jittes. He plays a scryb ranger to block a turn and I draw a safekeeper to deny him any outs.

G2: T1 go, T2 Needle his waste off basics after he plays T2 Thalia. I play a karakas T3 bounce his thalia and thoughtseize seeing 2x thalia, karakas, surgical, fetch. I take the surgical and resolve a library the following turn. It takes me a while to find the combo but I duress him again and see a plow. I needle Karakas and give him 1 draw step and he draws pridemage. I make Marit Lage in response and I manage to get him with a swing+Rite.

Round 5: Sneak and Show 2-0
G1: I turn 1 thoughtseize him OTP and he snap forces exiling brainstorm. His following play of petal Brainstorm confirms hes on sneak and show. I play map do some fetching and play lands. I draw a duress and use it and he forces with 2 cards left in his hand afterwards. The followup play is Show and Tell in Emrakul and I put in depths without the mana to activate. I untap sylvan scrying for the MB Karakas bounce his emrakul and thoughtseize it leaving him with 0 outs.

G2: I T1 OTD slam a Thorn of Amethyst. He brainstorms and lets it resolve, I T2 play depths go. He plays sol land and show and tells in Griselbrand. I put in Hexmage and pop it to make Marit Lage. With thorn in play he has 0 outs. I rotate for a karakas and bash his face in.

Sidenote: My opponent was being petty and called a judge and tried to argue I wouldnt get the Marit Lage b/c I didnt put counters on the depths....facepalm...alright man I get you're salty but if you were fine with it G1..

R6+R7 draw with friends on Miracles+RUG Lands

[pedro]

2 Bayous are fine. You can play Blooming Marsh or Llanowar Wastes over the 3rd Bayou. It's even possible to do well without duals at all: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19262&d=322137&f=LE ;)

naaaa, i would like to fetch on dryad or basic land :D

[Cyrus]

naaaa, i would like to fetch on dryad or basic land :D

His idea (Amin's, the budget list from MKM) must be that Mishra's Factory is as good as a Dryad Arbor in getting sacrificed to edict but it blocks better and carries a sizeable punch too.

[pedro]

yes, but it is not fetchable...
I don't like it

[MrIggins]

Does anyone have advice on how to sideboard with the Confidant build? Most of the lists that have put up results have additional fair stuff (Bitterblossom, Tireless Tracker, Tarmogoyf, etc...) in the sideboard. In which matchups are those supposed to be coming in? I'm pretty new to the deck and I'm having a hard time assessing when I'm supposed to lean harder into the grind tools, and I worry about over-sideboarding.

I looked at the spreadsheet from solnox on the previous page and it was helpful, but obviously was directed towards the fast mana builds so it doesn't all carry over.

Thanks in advance for any tips!

[lavafrogg]

Does anyone have advice on how to sideboard with the Confidant build? Most of the lists that have put up results have additional fair stuff (Bitterblossom, Tireless Tracker, Tarmogoyf, etc...) in the sideboard. In which matchups are those supposed to be coming in? I'm pretty new to the deck and I'm having a hard time assessing when I'm supposed to lean harder into the grind tools, and I worry about over-sideboarding.

I looked at the spreadsheet from solnox on the previous page and it was helpful, but obviously was directed towards the fast mana builds so it doesn't all carry over.

Thanks in advance for any tips!

I haven’t found a ton of info on the Confidant builds. It still seems very hush hush on the forums.

[Mr. Safety]

Does anyone have advice on how to sideboard with the Confidant build? Most of the lists that have put up results have additional fair stuff (Bitterblossom, Tireless Tracker, Tarmogoyf, etc...) in the sideboard. In which matchups are those supposed to be coming in? I'm pretty new to the deck and I'm having a hard time assessing when I'm supposed to lean harder into the grind tools, and I worry about over-sideboarding.

I looked at the spreadsheet from solnox on the previous page and it was helpful, but obviously was directed towards the fast mana builds so it doesn't all carry over.

Thanks in advance for any tips!

I don't speak for everyone, and I have limited experience with the deck, but when I was running the deck it was to specifically address 2 of the worst matchups: Miracles and Death & Taxes. I was even using Wasteland x3-4 to deal with Karakas, which created tension with Pithing Needle. However, the fair plan was much more reliable against those decks specifically. The other reason for playing DRS/Bobs is that Diabolic Edict is getting much more common. Sylvan Safekeeper does a lot of work obviously, but it is one-dimensional whereas DRS/Bob allowed the deck to be less linear and grind.

I sideboarded Tarmogoyfs against Miracles, Burn, Esper Stoneblade. I sideboarded Bitterblossom against Miracles, Grixis Delver, Czech Pile. The rest of the sideboard is also fairly open because I was maindecking Abrupt Decay and Sylvan Library (not typical.) Aside from Goyf/Blossom I think most of the sideboards for slow depths are very close to Turbo Depths (at least from what I've seen.)