[Deck] Turbo Depths

[ComplexPants]

I plan on playing in a GPT this weekend and I am going to give spheres a test run. Won't have coffers in time to try emrakul, so will be doing the Garruk, Crucible plan for the grind.


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[Chatto]

I haven't posted here in ages, so I'm not really up-to-date. So could someone explain to me what 'the Emrakul-plan' is?

[Djehuti]

what do you mean by that? do you mean that this is a poor man's choice deck and you shouldn't play against it often so dont bother? or do you mean you always have your token faster than they kill you? Because from my experience Burn ALWAYS gives you 3-4 turns and if you falter, you are dead. And it is a kind of deck I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE. Chalice solves it. So it does solve UR Delver. I don't care if it shuts my Crops and discard as long as the amount of cards they can actually play from their deck drops from 42 to 10-12. Well played Chalice cripples more decks like Reanimator, Lands, Storm and Miracles.

And Crops do get sided out against counters. It is not funny to lose 2 cards for a mere Daze or FoW.

After playing against burn on wednesday, I have to disagree with this. I tried chalices and regretted it. I opened hands where playing the chalice would have locked a discard spell and a tutor in my hand if I chose to cast it on turn 1, or the damage was already done by a goblin guide and eidolon by turn 2 before I would have had a chance to resolve it. If anything the card that stopped me from winning the matchup was ensnaring bridge since i didn't find the abrupt decay on time. I think Abrupt decays are the only thing that comes in. As for UR delver, reanimator and ANT, many times chalice is a gamble since you have to hope you turned off the right half of their deck (I can't tell you how many times I've chaliced on 1 against ANT only to have them go off using artifact mana and cabal rit...). However I do agree chalice cripples miracles so well sometimes that i could see an arguement for running CotV just for that reason.

@hymnyou I really like the null rod suggestion! Probably the most graceful hate card for ANT, D&T, and Miracles.

[DNSolver]

Chalice is meh against burn. I've had hands where it was good, but in general it's not as good as comboing quickly. Besides, Burn as well as Elves seems like they have tons of 1-drops, but it's deceiving:

Burn:
4 Price of Progress (deals tons of damage)
4 Fireblast
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Rift Bolt
3 Sulfuric Vortex
? Searing Blaze (if they have it, they will eventually get to cast it vs. us)

Out of the board:
Ensnaring Bridge (buys time to find Prices unless we Decay it)
Exquisite Firecraft (if they expect Chalice)
Smash to Smithereens (if they expect Chalice)

Also taking into account that we might not always be able to cast Chalice turn 1, and thus have to deal with a Swiftspear or Goblin Guide, it's not necessarily a great plan.

@Chatto: the Emrakul plan is something I've been proposing to sideboard in against Miracles. There are plans for both Emrakuls:

Emrakul, the Promised End: Search for and activate Eye of Ugin on 8 lands, cast the next turn easily thanks to Eye.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: more work needed - search for Eye of Ugin and Cabal Coffers. Search for it, activate Coffers with Urborg in play for enough mana to cast this guy.

The idea is to continuously search out and cast Emrakul once we get to the necessary mana. Neither Emrakul can be answered by Swords to Plowshares. Terminus only buys a turn or two because we can search it out again with Eye of Ugin. Jace bounce just results in recast. Council's Judgment is certainly a possible answer, but the cast trigger from Aeons Torn lets you deal 15 and kill 6 permanents on your extra turn before that happens, and Promised End only promises that your opponent's turns will be... suboptimal.

I've had limited testing because my friend who plays Miracles has been away for the past 2 months. I'm convinced that this plan could work. It takes up 2-3 slots in the sideboard, but it is a very real threat if you are bringing in Abrupt Decays to kill Counterbalances + Blood Moons, because then you will be able to resolve your land searches necessary to assemble the inevitability. I like this plan more than keeping fast mana and trying to force through a fast combo.

Edit: Null Rod is a suggestion I've been considering. Against Death and Taxes I don't like it very much, because Flickerwisp can let them equip Jitte / Sword or reset Batterskull. Against Miracles I'm trying to keep in land searches to assemble the Emrakul plan, and Null Rod turns off my Expedition Maps. Could side those out though. Against Storm it's worse than Chalice on the play, better on the draw, which I like. It also randomly hoses Belcher, so I'm a fan. :)

[Chatto]

Thanks for the clarification, seems like difficult set-up to pull off. Yet, if you manage to tie the strings together it surely be GG.

[hymnyou]

what do you mean by that? do you mean that this is a poor man's choice deck and you shouldn't play against it often so dont bother? or do you mean you always have your token faster than they kill you? Because from my experience Burn ALWAYS gives you 3-4 turns and if you falter, you are dead. And it is a kind of deck I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE. Chalice solves it. So it does solve UR Delver. I don't care if it shuts my Crops and discard as long as the amount of cards they can actually play from their deck drops from 42 to 10-12. Well played Chalice cripples more decks like Reanimator, Lands, Storm and Miracles.

And Crops do get sided out against counters. It is not funny to lose 2 cards for a mere Daze or FoW.

I think you are playing the deck incorrectly if you're fearing Burn enough that it is sculpting your SB, especially in consideration of all the decks that are actual true tough matches. Chalice puts in some work against those decks but cuts off a lot of your problem solver cards, so you're crippling them nearly as much as yourself. Fundamental graveyard hate which is mandatory in Legacy puts in heavy work against those decks, especially with targeted (1 mana costed) discard- also the information is vital for those matches. You should have other tools already for those matches as well.

[apple713]

It sounds like people are having trouble knowing when to play chalice of the void. Its a very situational card that apparently is causing trouble for a lot of players. Chalice of the void is not always the first thing you try to play in all of your matches. It depends on many factors, such as cards in your hand, what deck your opponent is playing, your estimation of when the game will end, and how you expect your next few turns to play out. I don't really have time to explain all the situations for each deck but just be open to the idea that if you don't like chalice you may be playing it wrong.

[hymnyou]

Recently won the Atlanta Monthly event with similar list, thinking giving this a go for the GP.

Main Deck:

3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow Covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
3 Thespian Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Crop Rotation
1 into then north
1 Exploration map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Not of this world
2 Sylvan library

Sideboard:

2 Null rod
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Drop of Honey
2 Massacre
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale

[Djehuti]

Recently won the Atlanta Monthly event with similar list, thinking giving this a go for the GP.

Main Deck:

3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow Covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
3 Thespian Stage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Crop Rotation
1 into then north
1 Exploration map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Not of this world
2 Sylvan library

Sideboard:

2 Null rod
1 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Drop of Honey
2 Massacre
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale

Congrats! That drop of honey is spicy, what do you side it in against?

[DNSolver]

3 Thespian's Stage? Cut one for 4th Urborg?

[ComplexPants]

Top 8'd a GPT today. Went 4-1-1 in the swiss and lost in the quarters.

Match 1 - Grixis Control 2-0
Not much here. Games never went past turn 4. Only potential road block was spell snares and strix, discard got through them.

Match 2 - Burn 2-0
I was faster both games. Turn 3 and then turn 2.

Match 3 - Miracles 0-2
This was a very good miracles player, who actually says he knows DNSolver on MTGO and was familiar with the deck.
Game 1: We both developed as normal, he got counter balance down. I make merit, he fires off STP, I NoTW, he forces. He lands a Jace, I try to go off again, STP. Jace eventually ultimates.
Game 2: Game 2 I slow play him, but he keeps doing draw spells and has a full hand. I take a gamble and make merit, he fires STP. Eventually counter-top gets online, and then he surgicals dark depths. I go on the beats plan with ESG, he lands Jace and eventually ultimates him.

Match 4 - 4 color Delver 2-1
I took games 1 and 3 in a pretty straightforward manner. I lost game 2 due to fire // ice tapping merit and then losing on tempo.

Match 5 - Show and Tell 2-1
Game 1: I am on the play and he keeps a powerful turn 1 gris hand. I thoughtseize out Show and Tell and then his game just falls apart. Turn 3 merit takes it.
Game 2: He plays sneak attack on turn 3, passes. I get combo pieces in play. His turn he sneak attacks gris into play, I make merit, he then sneaks Ashen Rider into play, onto game 3.
Game 3: I actually forget how this game started, but I get pieces in place for turn 3 combo, pass. He show and tells for emrakul, I make merit. Then ESG to sylvan scry for Karakas. He scoops. He was really salty, wouldn't even shake my hand.

Match 6 - ID into top 8

Quarterfinals - BUG Delver 1-2
Game 1: He doesn't really know what is going on with my deck. Eventually we both get into top deck mode, I have Urborg and Stage in play and top deck Depths. That is game.
Game 2: I am ready to do a turn 3 combo. At the end of his turn I make Merit and I get Diabolic Edict'ed. On to game 3.
Game 3: I think I am setting things up nicely, I have a turn 3 combo ready, but I get thoughtseize'd, lose my Hexmage. Then I get hymn'd and he gets my sylvan scrying and depths followed by surgical on my depths. Basically that was it, outside of him performing a game lose violation. He was a super nice guy and hope to bump into him again.


Seems like surgical is becoming more of a sideboard card these days and it hosed me twice. I played 4 spheres in the board and I didn't really like them. I think Chalice might be better just for miracles and storm decks. That being said, I am coming around to the emrakul plan. Having plan B out of the board I think is right.

I played my list from EW with the following changes: -1 NoTW, +1 Toxic Deluge.
SB: -4 Chalice, -1 Krosan, -1 Winter Orb, +4 Sphere, +1 Garruk, +1 NoTW

[hymnyou]

3 Thespian's Stage? Cut one for 4th Urborg?

Thespian stage is pretty clunky, I find a lot more ease casting hexmage with 4 in the deck at a fast pace, the tutors tend to find me what I need land wise, where the urborg usually is what helps me cast the hexmage on time. With two libraries the probability of finding combo pieces goes up, if I had no libraries I would prob play 4. Outside of obvious combo use I like Stage for baiting opponents needles, psyching out wastelands, getting a karakas to stop midrange beaters, get a basic etc-stage has many tricks. ESG and petal are one shots, where urborg stabilizes the mana base, especially when rebuilding after activation. With Karakas and Tabernacle in, there are 11 non-BG producing lands, 5 non-mana producing lands.

Congrats! That drop of honey is spicy, what do you side it in against?

There are a lot of strong mid-rangeish players in my meta, lots of weapons and removal. I would not play at the GP though, deluge is just better- but helps my tempo locally. It helps to slow down DRS/Delver, DNT, Alluren, Food Chain, Eldrazi, Infect. It knocks out Progenitus and Emrakul on a show and tell, makes it tougher for elves but that match isnt too concerning. Deluge can be just too slow, and the life loss sure is not helpful. It's a one mana mini abyss that stands strong with Marit Lage, and I like old cards.

Top 8'd a GPT today. Went 4-1-1 in the swiss and lost in the quarters.


Seems like surgical is becoming more of a sideboard card these days and it hosed me twice.

I agree on more surgical, with reanimator archetype rising again I think the card should be expected in higher numbers for the GP. I'm running 5 pieces of graveyard hate with consideration that I will have to extract(and fail to find)/Macabre my own depths. I like Faerie Macabre lately because it gets around Chancellor turn 1's, can't get duress'ed by storm and can't be countered by miracles when trying to hose snapcaster.

[Claymore]

Played this list in a small GPT, went 1-2 with a "no show" bye round 1 (two players were running late and given round 1 losses.

3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bind
4 Crop Rotation
3 Duress
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Expedition Map
2 Into the North
4 Lotus Petal
2 Not of This World
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vampire Hexmage

Sideboard:

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Karakas
2 Lost Legacy
1 Massacre
1 Not of This World
3 Surgical Extraction
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Toxic Deluge

R1: No-show bye
R2: DnT 1-2. Game 1 my deck kinda shit itself and didn't give me a lot of stuff to work with. Mull to 6 with some interaction but think I only saw a Thespian's Stage. He has an aggro start and kills me within 5 turns. Board in Tabernacle, Decays, Karakas, NotW, Deluge, Massacre, board out Duresses, Sylvan Scrying, and maybe Library. Game 2, get an early Tabernacle which slows his development severely. He plays Flickerwisp to reset a Needle on Wasteland (Stage), and next turn leaves 1 mana open to equip and swing with SoFI. I EOT crop rotate into the combo and have NotW to protect against Swords.
Game 3 was long affair, with him keeping a lot of interaction. Think my hand was Petal, Guide, Thoughtseize, Into, Crop, Verdant, Decay? I thoughtseize my T1 to a hand of Disenchant, Thalia, Council's Judgement, Plains, Karakas, Flickerwisp. Take the Thalia since I wasn't near comboing and didn't have a lot of lands. He gets several Ports down and taps down my Stage each upkeep. I end up with a board of 2 lands, Thespian Stage, Depths after burning a crop-ghost quarter on Karakas (sacrificing Tab when he had no creatures in play). Duress reveals a Path, Disenchant, Council's Judgement, so take the Path. Burn an Abrupt Decay on a StoneForge with a SoFI to give me more time. Play out a Needle on Port which gets Disenchanted, then another Needle which sticks. I'm 1 turn away from comboing and he top decks Magus of the Moon. I don't find removal and die shortly to beats, with a hand of 2 Depths and 2 Spirit Guide.

R3: MoggCatcher Stompy. Game 1 I have a turn 3 Depths with Urborg, Stage, Rotation, Verdant, 2x Needle hand. Play a blind Needle on Wasteland. He plays turn 1 Moggcatcher. Respond with Needle on Moggcatcher. I have Urborg, Stage, Forest (Crop Rot) in play and he plays and equips Jitte to a swing. I don't block and make Marit Lage EOT. Swing him to 4. He untaps and plays his singleton Stingscourger. I draw blank the rest of the short game. I'm not sure if he played Jitte at a point where I could have Needled.
In: 3 Decays, 2 Lost Legacy, Toxic Deluge, Karakas? Out: Sylvan Scrying x4, Bojuka, NotW x2 maybe.
Game 2, mull to 5 with first hand of 5 lands, petal, Hexmage, then 6 is a no lander. I think I keep Petal, Guide, Swamp, Hexmage, X. He has turn 1 Magus, I play out turn 1 Hexmage to block. He plays Revoker on Hexmage, and next turn another Magus. I play Lost Legacy on Blood Moon to extract all 4 from his deck, seeing a hand of Recruiter, Jitte, Mogg. Play my needle on Moggcatcher. He plays Pia/Kira to kill my Hexmage and slow-plays the win, letting me board wipe with top deck Toxic Deluge. He top decks his third and last Magus and wins from there.

R4: BR Chancellor Reanimator. My deck wakes up and gives me turn 2 Marit Lage with Urborg, Depths, Hexmage hand. He gets a turn 2 Griselbrand to block but I eventually get there. Game 2 I play Catacombs, keeping up Crop Rotation-Bog instead of playing a blank Urborg. He plays turn 1 Stronghold Gambit, so I put in Hexmage and crop rotate into Depths for the win. We play a few more practice games, including one where I can't answer Blood Moon, and another where I play Chalice on 0 to burn the Chancellor trigger, then Duress and Needle on Griselbrand. I did manage Lost Legacy on Griselbrand which drew him 2 cards, but I end up being able to Surgical on his reanimation target (Iona) and win from there. Think ended up 4-1 overall in our games.

So yeah, fuck Magus of the Moon. It certainly feels like the deck could use more creature kill, either Deluges or 4 Decays. I was thinking Collective Brutality may be very good to take out removal as well as problematic creatures. I'm also curious if we need to just constantly board in Surgical and keep in all Discard to exterminate all of their answers. Pick the Brain could possibly be an additional 'discard and exile' option. I did like the Tabernacle as a tax, but it could have been better as a Deluge (which would have been 3 wipes in the board). I have it as an additional option against Empty the Warrens and Delver decks to delay them, but I haven't had enough tests with it in this deck to see how useful it is in that regard.

I didn't draw Bind all day except in one no-land mulligan against DnT, and against Reanimator where it was discarded to protect Griselbrand.

I think a 3-4 Stage-Urborg split could be good. You only really need Stage past turn 4, unless you have Urborg, and Urborg gives you more plays: Discard, Hexmage, and the turn 2 Lage with Hexmage. A Stage is pretty useless by itself.

A Winter Orb might be good in here, or the likes of Mana Web (which plays hilariously well with Urborg).

I may also be trying too hard to bring control elements to a blazing combo deck...but the deck just doesn't feel fast enough to avoid countermeasures. It either bursts out turn 2 Marit or has to bob and weave for an opening after a few turns.

[ComplexPants]

Mana web is very interesting. If you match that with tabernacle and urborg, it could be super gross. Give them the option of creatures or spells lol.

Not sure it is game breaking, but it certainly makes it hard to interact with us. Against miracles, I think it is particularly good since 3 cmc is a sweet spot to sneak in under counter-top.


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[apple713]

Mana web is very interesting. If you match that with tabernacle and urborg, it could be super gross. Give them the option of creatures or spells lol.

Not sure it is game breaking, but it certainly makes it hard to interact with us. Against miracles, I think it is particularly good since 3 cmc is a sweet spot to sneak in under counter-top.


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Thats interesting because it would make terminus very difficuly to set up and cast. Against a deck like d&t it would effectively turn off karakas and port, any equipment they have. i would be interested to know how this plays out if you do any testing with it.

[jdmdave]

Won a local win a dual (badlands) tournament. List is unchanged from my GP list, except sideboard has slight alterations. I didn't actually lose A GAME until the finals :). Deck was running super hot and has a lot of play to it.

Maindeck

* 12 Combo Lands
* 2 Snow
* 1 GQ, 1 Steppe, 1 Bog
* 1 Bayou
* 2 Verdant
* 3 Marsh
* 2 Not
* 3 Needle
* 4 Rotate
* 4 Sylvan Scrying
* 1 Library
* 3 Into
* 4 Duress
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Petal
* 4 ESG
* 4 Hexmage

Sideboard

* 3 Surgical (same)
* 4 Sphere (same)
* 2 abrupt decay (-1)
* 1 Karakas (same)
* 1 Not of this world (same)
* 1 Pithing Needle (same)
* 1 Emrakul
* 1 Eye of Ugin
* 1 Cabal Coffers

Round 1 - (2-0) Eldrazi. Turn 2 Marit Lage is mean.dec

Round 2 - (2-0) Titanpost. Turn 2 Marit Lage Game 1. Turn 2 Blow up your metalworker, turn 3 EOT crop rotation into marit lage. gg

Round 3 - (2-0) Mono Red Blood Moon Sneak Attack. Turn ONE marit lage on the play with a nutso hand (bayou, petal, hexmage, esg, crop rotate, go). Game 2 he mulls to 6, get a turn 1 sneak attack, but doesn't draw anything. Key sequence was turn 3 where he tried to blood moon me, but I tapped my bayou for green, ghost quartered it for a swamp, then abrupt decayed the moon before dropping hexmage depths (drew the depths).

Round 4 - (2-0) Eldrazi. Turn 2 Marit lage is mean.dec

Round 5 - Draw vs. Grixis Delver

Round 6 - Draw vs. Miracles

Quarterfinals - (2-0) Eldrazi. Turn 2 Marit Lage game 1. Game 2 he drops chalice on 1 AND 2, but I eventually the missing land combo piece on turn 4 and get there

Semifinals - (2-0) Grixis Delver. Turn 3 Marit Lage game 1 after Tseizing/duressing opponent 3 times. Game 2 is a long grinder as he has a wasteland heavy draw w/ countermagic, but I eventually "get him" with hidden ESG mana. TLDR I GQ his wasteland, he wastelands my dark depths, I crop rotate my dark depths for a thespians stage, he wastelands my thespians stage, I crop rotate for depths, then activate with ESG mana ftw.

Finals - (2-1) Miracles. Game 1 I jam a turn 3 Marit lage w/ Not of this world backup vs a non-top hand. Game 2 he blood moons me on turn 3, then kills me in 3 turns with mentor. Game 3 is a super long drawn out affair where I abrupt decay his blood moons, get my dark depths surgicalled after going for it once, but then eventually loop emrakul behind eye of ugin + cabal coffers + urborg + 2 thespians stage copying cabal coffers.

Final thoughts

* Still iffy on the Emrakul plan, mainly due to how many slots if takes. Maybe try out Emrakul 2.0 with Ugin. Between Petals/Fetches/Sorceries/Instants, It's not THAT farfetched to cast her for around 7ish. Single mindslaver should be more than sufficient to strip their hand of STPs/shuffle away tops+terminus. Then again, Nephalia drownyard basically achieves the same thing for only one slot.
* Into the North has been working out better for me than Map
* Nothing leads to more salt than crop rotation into Sejiri Steppe

[Claymore]

I liked Into the North more than Map as well, accelerating into either a basic or Depths itself.

It seems Urborg is critical for getting the obscenely early Marits so going to 4 might be right. With 12 combo lands, that would put the typical Fetch-Dual mana base to:

* 2 Bayou
* 4 Verdant

This does feel critically low to me though...

A high discard count (8) also seems more correct than the extra land tutors (Map, Into). With how often I side out Sylvan Scrying I almost want to cut it...

Going below 3 Abrupt Decays seems pretty risky to me though.

[Motto82]

Played a Legacy Invitational in which the 18 best players of my region were competing to win the prestigious title.

I am sorry to report I lost my win and in to Shardless BUG. My other loss was also against Shardless BUG. :(
In my first loss my hands just never came together. In my win and in I played around Wasteland in the 1st game and he Lilianed me. Then in the second game I played around Liliana and he Wastelanded me, sad times even moreso considering he only played 1 Wasteland, he told me after the match.
Previously I had been crushing this matchup and losing two times felt bad.
My wins were versus Miracles, BR Reanimator (had a very entertaining game 3 in which I surgicalled Iona and Tidespout - he was able to return Chancellor three times to block before dying) and Eldrazi aggro.

I have also strongly considered going up to 4 Urborg, ToY. I feel like I am missing them too frequently and will see if I can make room for it.
With BUG being so present in my meta I will also start testing postboard Dryad Arbor to avoid being Lili'd out of the game.

[MBSegal]

Played a Legacy Invitational in which the 18 best players of my region were competing to win the prestigious title.

I am sorry to report I lost my win and in to Shardless BUG. My other loss was also against Shardless BUG. :(
In my first loss my hands just never came together. In my win and in I played around Wasteland in the 1st game and he Lilianed me. Then in the second game I played around Liliana and he Wastelanded me, sad times even moreso considering he only played 1 Wasteland, he told me after the match.
Previously I had been crushing this matchup and losing two times felt bad.
My wins were versus Miracles, BR Reanimator (had a very entertaining game 3 in which I surgicalled Iona and Tidespout - he was able to return Chancellor three times to block before dying) and Eldrazi aggro.

I have also strongly considered going up to 4 Urborg, ToY. I feel like I am missing them too frequently and will see if I can make room for it.
With BUG being so present in my meta I will also start testing postboard Dryad Arbor to avoid being Lili'd out of the game.

I think Shardless (or any deck with Lili/Hymn/Waste) are kind of rough match ups if the two players are equally skilled and knowledgeable. I think Dryad Arbor is not a horrible idea, but I went a step further and have played a Deathrite Shaman / Tireless Tracker package. I think it hedges well at letting you recoup from Hymn and offering some protection from Liliana. I am much more scared of a deck with Liliana in it than I am one with Swords to Plowshares.

[apple713]

I think Shardless (or any deck with Lili/Hymn/Waste) are kind of rough match ups if the two players are equally skilled and knowledgeable. I think Dryad Arbor is not a horrible idea, but I went a step further and have played a Deathrite Shaman / Tireless Tracker package. I think it hedges well at letting you recoup from Hymn and offering some protection from Liliana. I am much more scared of a deck with Liliana in it than I am one with Swords to Plowshares.

I think it's been said already, likely by me but shardless is one of the easier matchups we have. Generally, unless they get nut draws you'll crush them. Nut draws happen when playing against any deck and its not something you should worry about or modify your deck for. Sometimes you just get that unlucky. It's the reason no match is 100%-0%. In my experiences 80-90% win rate vs a deck is about as high as you get. Even miracles can steal some games against its worst matchup (12 post).

I liked Into the North more than Map as well, accelerating into either a basic or Depths itself.

map is mainly for decks with low colored land counts or decks worried about being able to acquire colored mana after blood moon. (this should be in the primer)