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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Depths

  1. #1701

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by uncletiggy View Post
    And thalia and vryns wingmare... boseiju isn't terrible, bog is a better bullet tho.
    Good point, though Boseiju's can't-be-countered ability against D&T sounds like a bad time.

  2. #1702
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I think I will be keeping my 'not' of this world in, I regularly browse other threads on this board and people are siding in bounce spells with miracles gone, karakas and swords still exist in decks and I would rather be prepared for that.
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  3. #1703
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjace View Post
    I think I will be keeping my 'not' of this world in, I regularly browse other threads on this board and people are siding in bounce spells with miracles gone, karakas and swords still exist in decks and I would rather be prepared for that.
    This is where I'm coming from on the issue:

    Karakas still exists, but how many decks punish you for not having more answers to Karakas in game 1? I think it's just Death and Taxes and Lands that tax your Ghost Quarter and Pithing Needles to the point that you'd be hurting for not having Not of this World in the maindeck, and if you're seeing them with frequency then I can't argue against Not of this World.

    Swords still exists, but how many decks punish you for not being able to counter Swords in game 1? As in "I must go off ASAP into a possible Swords to Plowshares, and if they have it then I'm up 20 life but that just doesn't matter" levels of being punished. That's basically only Death and Taxes, right? You have 8 discard spells, Crop Rotation into Sejiri Steppe, and you gain 20 life and lots of time to set up another 20/20 even if Swords does happen.

    What decks are bringing in bounce spells where you would think "I am happy keeping Not of this World in?" For example, I know Storm is playing more bounce spells now that Abrupt Decay isn't a 100% necessity, but Not of this World is one of the first cards that I would remove from my deck against Storm. I imagine the kind of deck which only needs to keep a problem off the board for only one turn isn't the kind of matchup where you can afford to draw a ton of dead cards, and I don't think it's worth it to take on the risk of having Not of this World sit in your hand as your gameplan against removal that may not even be there in the first place.

  4. #1704
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Okay those are very convincing arguments.
    Do you advocate for rite of consumption or maybe there is something better? Maybe more discard or speed?
    Actually if we are cutting that I might try out dark confidant and deathrite shaman
    Last edited by chaosjace; 05-09-2017 at 06:25 AM.
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  5. #1705

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Alright guys, need to qualify for a local large prize pool invitation only legacy tournament. As much as I like fucking around with (and winning I might add) with portent miracles, what is the latest BG stocklist? Can I just run the one I went 11-4 w/ @ Chiba, or is there new technology out there

  6. #1706
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmdave View Post
    Alright guys, need to qualify for a local large prize pool invitation only legacy tournament. As much as I like fucking around with (and winning I might add) with portent miracles, what is the latest BG stocklist? Can I just run the one I went 11-4 w/ @ Chiba, or is there new technology out there
    I have been watching your Miracles posts and enjoying your results (I just have nothing to contribute to that thread)
    The list you are looking at is probably fine for what you want. The only things that seem to be going on are
    1. no more not of this world.
    2. speed is the key(from my personal experience)
    I recommend at least 8 discard, there is room for more now if you feel further disruption is necessary.
    people are suggesting rites of consumption but if you are expecting a fair amount of D&T, and if they are competent, they can swords their own creature to survive, I leave that up to you, some other notes I have to add are that your own surgical can save your depths from opposing surgicals if you are worried, and rotating into bog on yourself can save your depths, in REALLY bad situations. not sure if this helps you but here it is.
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  7. #1707
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I'm unsure what to play instead of Not of this World, but ideally it would be a card with more utility. The last event I went to, I swapped out my copies of NotW with an Abrupt Decay, a Toxic Deluge, and a Mishra's Factory. I went 2-2 beating Maverick and Stoneblade, but lost to Blood Moon decks twice. I didn't get a really good feel for the cards that I was testing. I think the main use of Not of this World is a counter to Swords to Plowshares, so I am considering Sylvan Library instead--you get to dig for your discard against Swords, look for your Needles against Wastelands, and abuse the card if your opponent gives you 20 extra life.

    On another note...Do any of the players here have experience with Drop of Honey? I was trying to think of cards that would be okay against Death and Taxes without being okay against *only* Death and Taxes. Drop of Honey seems good because it buys time against creature decks and puts your opponent in a bad position when it comes to playing out their creatures. I like that it also kills True-Name Nemesis and other untargetable creatures. To be honest though, I don't have enough experience playing this deck through grindy matches to know if "buying time" is actually what you want, and giving your opponent the ability to just wait out the Drop of Honey might make it worse than just playing Toxic Deluge. I'm going to try it out this weekend anyway, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions on it.

  8. #1708
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I think I am going to go 2x surgical, 1x sylvan library in my Not of this world slots. Surgical CAN protect yourself against opposing surgicals, but other than that I love the effect. Remove whatever they do first from teh game from fetches to ponders, not to mention uh reanimator? being really popular right now.
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  9. #1709
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Has anyone tried Sylvan Safekeeper instead on the NotW slot? It can protect you from everything that targets Marit Lage. It is also an answer against Diabolic Edict aside from Khalni Garden/Dryad Arbor/Mishra's Factory. It protects you also from Blessed Alliance if you attack it with Marit Lage. You can go 2-3 maindeck or 2 main and 1 sb. My concern is more with my match against Elves. I'm not sure if my opponent then just got a good hand or Elves is really a lot faster than our deck.

  10. #1710

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I'm not quite sure why you guys are so against NOTW. The card was an absolute allstar for me at the GP as a 2 of. If anything, I'd rather go to discard spells 9-10 before considering direct protection replacements.

  11. #1711
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmdave View Post
    I'm not quite sure why you guys are so against NOTW. The card was an absolute allstar for me at the GP as a 2 of. If anything, I'd rather go to discard spells 9-10 before considering direct protection replacements.
    In your 15 rounds at the GP, how many times did you cast Not of this World against a deck that didn't have Miracles in it? That's why I'm against NotW right now. It depends on your metagame, but my opinion is that NotW mainly reads "Counter target Swords to Plowshares" in a format low on white removal. The card is a 7 mana do-nothing if your opponent is playing Delver or Combo (and it looks like most of the format is doing one of these two things). NotW is a fine card for the sideboard, but in my maindeck I would rather play cards that have at least have *some* text in Game 1 against what is popular now, rather than metagame against decks that just aren't showing up.

    You have a point about playing extra discard. I was thinking about Sylvan Library mainly because I still wanted the NotW slot to be a sort of anti-white slot, just with something less narrow than NotW.

  12. #1712

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Fair enough. I cast it 9-10x at the GP (6-7 vs Karakas, 2-3 vs JTMS, 1x vs Venser)

  13. #1713
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Has Sylvan Library been ok as a 1 or 2 of in the main for those who cut or trimmed down on NOTW?
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  14. #1714
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nealdrox View Post
    Has Sylvan Library been ok as a 1 or 2 of in the main for those who cut or trimmed down on NOTW?
    I run it along side of Not of this World and it is great. It really helps when it's on board during grindy games.

  15. #1715

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmdave View Post
    Alright guys, need to qualify for a local large prize pool invitation only legacy tournament. As much as I like fucking around with (and winning I might add) with portent miracles, what is the latest BG stocklist? Can I just run the one I went 11-4 w/ @ Chiba, or is there new technology out there
    I think the most significant anti-DnT and Lands tech is Rite of Consumption (I run 4x in SB). However, based on a joke by a member in this group I have realized that Beckon Apparition is exactly what we want as a 1-2x in our SB. It is graveyard hate, anti-edict tech, and anti-Surgical-Depths tech. It comes in against BUG and/or Delver decks because those decks tend to bring in both Diabolic Edict and Surgical against us--and those cards are basically the only way they can steal games from us--Beckon Apparition nerfs that plan, as well as helping in other relevant match-ups. Beckon is the REAL DEAL!

    I am also running 4x Chalice of the Void in my SB because it makes the Elves, Delver, and Storm matchups a bye. I also run a little less discard to compensate.

    I am on the fence about NotW. I went down to 2 in my deck, still in the main. But it makes it so we can beat a Karakas without finding a Needle or GQ, and just helps us not lose to random Sumberge/Chain of Vapor/StP, etc. Sometimes it is a dead card, but when it is needed--it wins the game.

  16. #1716
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Ive enjoyed Sphere of Resistance over Chalice. That's just my preference.
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  17. #1717
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyc View Post
    I am on the fence about NotW. I went down to 2 in my deck, still in the main. But it makes it so we can beat a Karakas without finding a Needle or GQ, and just helps us not lose to random Sumberge/Chain of Vapor/StP, etc. Sometimes it is a dead card, but when it is needed--it wins the game.
    The other side of the coin though is that NotW can straight up lose you the game because it is *completely* dead in some matchups, and you don't need NotW because you're actually playing other answers to removal and harmful activated abilities. Basically, at this point if you're playing NotW in your maindeck, I think you need to be asking yourself if you're playing against enough maindeck answers to Marit Lage to warrant taking on the risk of playing a card that does nothing at all except protect Marit Lage.

    I wouldn't want NotW in against decks that play Submerge (I'd rather just use discard, put no Forests in play, or remove my Forests before making Marit Lage) and Chain of Vapor (I'd rather be disrupting the opposing combo than play cards that don't interact with the opponent).

    You all have a point: Swords to Plowshares certainly isn't the only thing you can counter. If you're playing against a bunch of decks that play multiple Karakas/always have access to the 1 Karakas in their deck and you're not finding Ghost Quarter or your Needles are actually taxed doing other things, then I agree that you should be playing NotW. The only decks that fit that description are Lands and Death and Taxes. I think it's feasible to claim those matchups are bad enough and our other matchups good enough that it makes sense to lose some edge against Combo and Delver to preboard against Lands and Death and Taxes; however, both of those decks are rare in my own metagame, and the online metagame is currently one where those decks are rare (Rishadan Port is restrictively expensive; Lands is probably getting eaten alive in a sea of combo).

  18. #1718
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    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    Very good points. I'm at 3 NOTW and I plan on trimming to 1.
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  19. #1719

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I was very happy with my standard list at mkm Frankfurt (27th place of 440 people).

    If I would play a deck again (and surely I would), I would make few changes. I had 2*NotW main and one SB. Given so many StP decks running around, I believe two are OK. I won some games thanks to NotW i wouldn't win otherwise (i.e. With discard). Number of Karakas' is also very high - Dnt, Maverick, stoneblades, loam, lands, storm postboard. One or two rites could make a job here as well though.

    Problem with additional discard is that it slows you down sometimes and you can't cast it in their turn. Or they just hide an answer with brainstorm and draw it next turn.

    Another thing is dread of night. This is applicable only in Dnt matchup. I am more afraid of blood moon decks than Dnt and so I would rather add another answer to blood moon - krosan grip (also kills omniscience in omni show which is tough matchup).

    I think Sylvan is not as much needed as before and could be whatever you need to.

  20. #1720

    Re: [Deck] Dark Depths

    I have moved my NOTW to the side for now for an extra Pithing Needle and extra discard spell. But I am not in a Karakas heavy meta right now.

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