[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Mr. Froggy]

Yeah I know, I guess its just more my play style.

I'll keep on testing.

I had started with RG (with Pyro/REB) and Chalice just didn't really like it.

[Mr. Safety]

Split for first place in a 20+ players went 4-0 then draw for firstplace beating miracle 2-0 ; UWR patriot 2-0 ; miracle 2-0 and grixis 2-0.
the other 4-0 was also playing dark depth but a different version.
The chalice of the void were gamebreaking in the miracle matchups and I would'nt have won without them.
Happy about this change, particularly about the fact that I was often losing to miracle before.
I would'nt change anything about this list and feel the deck is particularly wll positionned with the chalice changing the miracle and ant matchups
which were the worst matchups of the deck (with turbo BR rea).


4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Mana Confluence
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Sylvan Library
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Tainted Pact
3 Sylvan Scrying

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 4 Not of This World
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Marit Lage

Are you setting Chalice at 1? I tend to be pretty thick, but it appears that your own chalice at 1 turns off 17 of your own spells. This is not a trolling attempt, I'm trying to figure out how I would pilot this (poorly I'm sure.)

[Mr. Froggy]

Are you setting Chalice at 1? I tend to be pretty thick, but it appears that your own chalice at 1 turns off 17 of your own spells. This is not a trolling attempt, I'm trying to figure out how I would pilot this (poorly I'm sure.)

Exactly what I think too...

[apple713]

Are you setting Chalice at 1? I tend to be pretty thick, but it appears that your own chalice at 1 turns off 17 of your own spells. This is not a trolling attempt, I'm trying to figure out how I would pilot this (poorly I'm sure.)

I'll be sure to put the notes about chalice in the primer because it seems to be a recurring question. Its counterintuitive but has been commented on multiple times as you can see below.

The thing is to play chalice of the void maindeck and don't care whether it shut off many cards from your deck cause often you can still combo off what matters. But it shutt offs swords+top they can maybe miracle once but not twice.
Chalice also improves the ant matchup.

Yeah chalice is what makes the ant and miracle matchups winnable.
It looks contrintuitive (that's why I didn't try it before) but against some decks you don't want to cast it but against others (miracle+ant) you want to play first/second turn needle/map/reb their CB/ crop into thespian,
then when you are sure you can combo off chalice of the void or even before to shutt of tops. Miracle plays CB which if not answered properly will block anyway all your one drops, so blocking both yours and opponent's one makes the matchups fair.

Miracle and ant being the two most difficults matchups chalice@1 is very appropriate in this deck.
Also against lot of decks when you draw naturally the combo playing chalice@1 won't slow down your clock while opponents will be disrupted.

Chalice strengthen lot of matchups from miracle which is now slightly positive, it changes at all point this matchup. The ant matchup become ok, the cloudpost matchup become ok.
I am sold on the chalice. You have to play them if you want to make this deck really better.

Below is what i've said about it. You can click the link to the whole post because my list is very different than adireng's list.

Chalice of the Void: Great vs combo decks and for preventing swords to plowshares. Usually decks that its good against don't have a way to deal with it game 1. The decks that can deal with it do so with abrupt decay and thats actually one of our better matches so it doesn't really matter.

Although this COULD hurt us because of the 1 drops we run it doesn't have to. We run 7 one drop discard spells, and 4 crop rotations. Where chalice can be a great play on T1 usually, but in this deck it's often a 2+ drop and thats fine. T1 we can cast our discard spells which are more effective in the first turns. If it has to it can pull a 1 drop from their hand too. Late game discard is often wasted anyways so after the initial couple you draw they would be dead cards anyways. The only thing it really hurts is late game crop rotations. If you are holding a crop rotation and have a chalice you can crop rotation first or just delay the chalice depending on what the opponent is playing.

Additionally, against combo decks chalice can be played on 0, or 2. Yes this deck does have two drops but sometimes its ok. For example, against RG combo lands, G1 chalice on 2 just shuts them off of loam and punishing fire.

Even if we shut off some of our cards the benefit often outweighs the detriment. Adrieng also made several remarks about including chalice as well and he was very positive about it.

EDIT
I've made several updates to the primer including a change Log to track when I update it. 3 stock deck lists have been updated and discussion on Chalice of the void has been included. If there are things that people would like me to address in the primer please let me know. Post or PM me. The primer has ALOT of information which can be overwhelming but if there is something you can't find an answer to, just run a ctrl + F search for the card you have a question about on the primer page.

[Negator77']

I'll be sure to put the notes about chalice in the primer because it seems to be a recurring question. Its counterintuitive but has been commented on multiple times as you can see below.

I've been stubbornly avoiding Chalice for exactly that reason. Storm has been a decent matchup for my version, but I can't get miracles to budge off roughly 50/50 no matter how heavily the board tries to address it. Everything from Steely Resolve to Slaughter Games/Extraction to Not of This World to overloading on Decays/Grips just hasn't significantly impacted the matchup enough to justify the slots. I'm willing try out the Chalice and see if what its been doing for your version carries over.

Thank you for putting even more time into the primer with the update. I'll try to give it a good read later tonight.

[Mr. Froggy]

Something like this?

Was kinda hard to find room for the 4 Chalices, but it seems like it works.

Lands:
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures:
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells:
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay

Artifacts:
4 Expedition Map
2 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Pithing Needle
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void

[apple713]

Something like this?

Was kinda hard to find room for the 4 Chalices, but it seems like it works.

Lands:
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures:
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells:
2 Sylvan Library
4 Crop Rotation
3 Abrupt Decay

Artifacts:
4 Expedition Map
2 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Pithing Needle
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void

After some testing let me know how it goes. It's never easy finding space. Did you use the "Main Deck Construction Guideline" in the primer to help you?

[Mr. Froggy]

I've been testing a bit, and the card I've been not liking is DRS. Sure he eats STPs like a champ, but other than that I'd like something a bit more proactive. Gonna try Thoughtseize.

[vereno]

Just got to test out my version of Dark Depths at a tournament yesterday at OMG games in Barrie, Ontario. There was 23 people and I finished 10th (3-2 record). Here is the list I ran:

4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Ancient Stirrings
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
2 Life from the Loam
4 Pithing Needle
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
32 Spells
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Mana Confluence
2 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Sejiri Steppe!
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
28 land
Sideboard
2 Pyroblast
4 Pyroclasm
2 Warping Wail
4 Krosan Grip
3 Leyline of the Void

Match ups went like this for me: 2-1 Win against Miracles, 2-1 Loss to Deadguy Ale, 2-1 Win against Deadguy Ale, 2-1 Loss to Miracles and a 2-0 (technically 2-1 but my opponent conceded the match to give me 2-0 for better tie breakers, nice guy magic player) Win against BUG Delver. As you guys can see there are a lot of Miracles and Deadguy Ale players in my area.

Since I am running less black spells then most lists I am thinking of dropping 4 Mana Confluence for 4 Karplusan Forest. This will make it easier to cast Warping Wail. Life from the Loam was pretty useless to me most of the day. The only advantage it gave me was that after game 1 I sided out my loams while everyone sided in their graveyard hate. I am thinking of testing out 2 Not of this World in the loam slot as I can fetch it with Ancient Stirrings. What do you guys think? Also as a side note all my wins were on the draw like a boss.

[Negator77']

The deck is getting some attention. It showed up on SCG and Gray Merchants today from online and live results:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...SCGPHILLY.html

http://thegraymerchants.com/?p=1451

It's been testing well for SCG Philly. Top 4'd two 1k's this month(top 4 split, not played out and a top 4 loss to Death and Taxes), 5-0'd one and 4-1'd four other leagues online (out of 6 played). We shall see how it goes this weekend.

[Kunfuzed]

Hepp's unstoppable...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=99297

[Negator77']

Hepp's unstoppable...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=99297

Ha! I was stopped. The Jund lands list the DC area guys came up with contributed greatly to it.

[Kunfuzed]

Ha! I was stopped. The Jund lands list the DC area guys came up with contributed greatly to it.

I assume Maze of Ith your quicker Marit Lage until they get their own Marit Lage to block, then just ping you down with Molten Vortex? Is that any different than normal lands lists against this deck (with P. Fire instead of Vortex)? Would you reconsider Not of This World if Lands sees a resurgence?

[Negator77']

I assume Maze of Ith your quicker Marit Lage until they get their own Marit Lage to block, then just ping you down with Molten Vortex? Is that any different than normal lands lists against this deck (with P. Fire instead of Vortex)? Would you reconsider Not of This World if Lands sees a resurgence?

Dark Confidant giving them a second engine for resources was a big problem in two of the games. They even stepped in as clock in a drawn out game. They now have an extra artifact smashing effect with Decay(up to five total grips/decays I think), making Needles (one of my primary weapons with Extractions out of the board) less effective.

I played standard GR lands twice and won both. Went 0-1-1 against the Jund list, although I did just beat it in a league match tonight. I basically feel that my plan against their version post board is straight up worse. That's a problem since they are favored in game 1 imo. Granted, I was unfamiliar with the exact contents of their list.... Didn't know that they don't run Karakas - giving them no way to attack through a Marit Lage token with their own token ever. This opens them up to extraction on Vortex if they happen to dredge one or I hit one with discard. That is a viable path that I wasn't aware of during the matches.

NOTW isn't good enough imo. A lot of the games against lands are lost before you can ever make a token via wastelock or a quick exploration fueled kill on the play. Ideally, the solution cards are useful pre and post Marit Lage.

[Griselpuff]

Nice finishes on MODO! How are the following match-ups: Delver, Eldrazi, Miracles, D&T, Infect, ANT, Sneak and Show?

[Negator77']

Nice finishes on MODO! How are the following match-ups: Delver, Eldrazi, Miracles, D&T, Infect, ANT, Sneak and Show?

Thanks! Eldrazi, Storm, Infect, and Delver have all been favorable matchups in my experience. The Eldrazi version with white including Displacer and Karakas can be a pain and requires boarding in Needles that can run face first into t1 Chalice if they have it (granted the deck has Decays and Hexmages to erase the Chalice). The colorless version is a good matchup, which luckily is the more common version at the moment. Storm is about 50/50 g1, then favorable in post board games where Extractions and Flusterstorms add to the discard suite and Crop into Bog disruption package. Delver can do what it does if it has a t1 Delver followed by more than 2 of Wasteland/Stifle/Daze, especially on the play. Aside from their best draws though, its favorable. Infect is a good matchup, and it's been a long time since I've dropped a match to it.

My results against Miracles have literally been 50/50, and I would guess its probably closer to 40/60 against good Miracles pilots. It's just difficult and they have plenty of answers, especially the legends version. The board dedicates a full 9-10 slots to making it better, and it still doesn't feel like enough at times. I still need to test Chalice against it, since its one of the few things I haven't tried yet. Death and Taxes is similar in that they have a ton of answers. Those two matchups come down to finding really small windows to exploit or capitalizing on an opponents mistake or unfamiliarity with the matchup. Just jamming the combo as early as possible rarely works out. Setting up a discard plus combo or Crop Rotation into Steppe or Wasteland the turn you combo is almost always needed.

For whatever reason, I've rarely run into Sneak and Show and don't have much testing in against it. I put a Karakas into the board over the fourth Extraction when I expect it.

[Kunfuzed]

Can you give a quick overview on your sideboard strategy? I played this deck for the first time on Saturday to a poor finish (lost to D&T, which seems like an impossible matchup, and MUD god draws), and siding things out seemed a little haphazard.

[Negator77']

Can you give a quick overview on your sideboard strategy? I played this deck for the first time on Saturday to a poor finish (lost to D&T, which seems like an impossible matchup, and MUD god draws), and siding things out seemed a little haphazard.

Death and Taxes is a tough one, no question. I generally board in the Pithing Needles (which can name Karakas, Wasteland, Aether Vial, Port, Mangara, Mom, etc), Ghost Quarter, Decay, Grips, and some # of Extractions (mainly for Swords and Wasteland). Brainstorms, Mox's, 1 Gemstone Mine, and a Map get boarded out. The Brainstorms are weaker against the taxing effects like Thalia and Wingmare, the Mox's aren't going to accelerate you into a quick win very often and stink vs Revokers, and Map is also soft to Revoker.

Mud is generally a favorable matchup. All but a busted draw from them is generally too slow. I usually shave a Map, a Mine, Steppe, and a Brainstorm for 2 Grips, a Decay, and a Ghost Quarter. Needles are certainly useful too and I bring a couple in against the Forgemaster/Ugin version or if they show Wastelands. On the Draw, two Inquistions can come out since they are soft there. On the play, they can rip Chalice, Metalworker, Monoloth, Trinisphere, etc.

If you want any other specific matchups, lmk.

[caprino]

Hey, this is my list. If you or anyone else is interested, I can post a brief write-up of the 15 rounds.




The Mox's can sometimes lead to awkward draws and do get boarded out in slower matchups like Death and Taxes and Miracles. Slowing down into a Needle/disruption version in game two is fine in those spots. In some matchups, the speed is just absolutely needed imo. One of the major points of this version is to maximize the number of turn two and turn three tokens while also seeing/casting disruption early. Brainstorm and Mox perform double duty and are absurd when found early together. A sequence of Mox into Brainstorm, play and sac a fetch shuffling away anything poor/extra, discard spell on turn one isn't that uncommon and very powerful. Brainstorm also helps blunt the effect of extra Mox's in a deck with so many shuffle effects. The extra speed, discard, and cards like Flusterstorm have turned several of the combo matchups into favorable ones, inlcuding Storm.

hello in the list that you arrived 26 in 2015, against white mono thing saide in and what you take away

[-Spooky-]

Just getting into this deck and I am loving it. I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on Living Wish. At a local event, I tested a version of the deck that used the wish plus a wish board. I ended up going undefeated, 2-0 against everything. Matchups were R/G lands, Maverick, Burn, and Esper Stoneblade. We split top 4, so I can't say much more than this, however, it looks promising. This is my list for reference-
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1213750