[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Michael Keller]

Top 8'ed a 2K at Mythic Games in NY with Depths (41 people). More to follow.

[jdmdave]

Vs Miracles - You board in the emrakul plan + decays + NoTw + surgicals and get rid of all of the fast mana.

[ComplexPants]

Hi there,

New to depths.

How do you guys board vs Miracles? I'm having a lot of trouble in this matchup

I'm currently playing the Emrakul plan and a fairly stock list with Into the North

Probably the hardest match to board for. There is a lot of discussion here on what the optimal plan is. Chalice vs Emrakul kit vs Garruk vs Winter orb + Crucible (my theory craft). A lot of the miracles match is playing smart against them, hoping they don't know how to play against the deck and or hoping they draw bad.

[Michael Keller]

Here was the list I ran to the Top 8 of the 2K this past weekend:

//Main
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Not of This World
2 Into the North

4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian Stage
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Khalni Garden

//Sideboard
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Bind
2 Dread of Night
1 Sylvan Library

Here were my match-ups over the course of the day:

R1: vs. Deadguy Ale [0-2]
R2: vs. U/w/r Miracles [2-0]
R3: vs. Death and Taxes [2-0]
R4: vs. Shardless BUG [2-0]
R5: vs. Death and Taxes [2-0]
R6: vs. I.D.
T8: vs. Turbo Depths [1-2]

Some thoughts about this iteration of the deck I played:

• I really felt that going for a streamlined variation with four-ofs would help improve consistency in some areas where I wanted added redundancy. This wasn't always a good thing, however, as there were times that the redundancy felt over-redundant and the tutors were able to provide what I needed to in a pinch. Into the North felt slightly weak, but still was crucial in some circumstances. Living Wish would ultimately be the better card under those circumstances, and certainly beats Surgical Extraction shenanigans.

• Bind came up big out of the board a few times, but it still feels a bit situational. I feel like a Living Wish package for the board may be worth trying, but slotting a pair in did pull some good weight throughout the course of the day and I was able to counter a few fetchlands and a Wasteland activation. I'll be moving away from these going forward.

• Dread of Night won me two rounds alone, essentially. I was able to hammer a few down in both games and opponents just couldn't break free - especially when they eschew artifact and enchantment hate. This card shouldn't be underestimated.

• Not of This World was just insane. It was just a blowout where mana would have been tied up otherwise. A card like that for free is incredibly potent.

• Oddly, Abrupt Decay and Garruk never saw play. They came in a few times here and there, but in most circumstances it just felt like I didn't need them in the first place because the deck just won so quickly.

• My R1 opponent was facing lethal with no cards in hand, and on his draw step, hit a Liliana to kill by Marit Lage. That was the game-winning play for him, and G2 I couldn't recover from the bevy of hate his deck had.

• The mirror in the T8 felt defined by Crop Rotation. Ghost Quarter felt nuts in the mirror obviously, but I wasn't able to procure a Karakas (or Maze) before this event and he had one in his board to seal the G3 bout. There was a window where I had the win and would have ultimately won the match had I had a Karakas in my board, but he was able to rip a Rotation a few turns later and win the game. I procured these cards after the event, though (oddly, I didn't own any).

• Pithing Needle was the M.V.P., and it honestly wasn't close. Dropping that turn one in three G1 circumstances won me those match-ups where my opponents actually had multiples of Wasteland in their opening hands.

• There were absolutely no circumstances where Bayou and fetches would have mattered over Blooming Marsh. Again, the speed of the deck just didn't care about land-drop for it to matter.

[chaosjace]

Here was the list I ran to the Top 8 of the 2K this past weekend:

How was the Khalni Garden and Shizo, Death's Storehouse? I imagine the fear being relevant, but the 0/1?

[l33twash0r]

How was the Khalni Garden and Shizo, Death's Storehouse? I imagine the fear being relevant, but the 0/1?

Maybe because of edicts?

[hymnyou]

Curious how you liked it as well. I ran Khalni garden in anticipation of edict this saturday at our monthly, but ended up getting wrecked by blessed alliance. I like the idea of buying a extra turn when possible or two (steppe protection) with blocks and obviously stopping edict.

[Michael Keller]

Maybe because of edicts?

That's exactly right. I felt that in situations where sacrificial effects would be damaging, Khalni Garden as opposed to Dryad Arbor doesn't leave play. So having that was nice. The problem is the sample size is so small based on this one tournament, the jury is still out on it. However, as a utility land I felt it worked pretty well.

[ComplexPants]

Great job. Glad to see 2 depths in the top 8. Blessed alliance in legacy is a bit unexpected. But seems like it should be good. Lots of people had been toying with dread of night, glad to see it do some work.

[jdmdave]

So how do we sideboard against maverick? I just lost my final round (was 4-0) in a league, but found myself unable to punch through the combination of knight + wasteland + STP + Karakas

[caseyc]

Hi All,

I'm new the forum and new to the deck. I just retired my first attempt at a legacy deck following the Louisville GP (it was a junk/maverick natural order dark depths brew). I just built Turbo Depths and so far it has been great. Very powerful with few bad matchups. In fact, I have been having no problems beating Miracles consistently. Right now, DnT just seems like a very difficult matchup. At first, I had been thinking to just not even have a sideboard for it and chalk it up as a lost cause that maybe I could steal the occasional set off of. However, if I want to do well in larger events, I really do need a solution.

Firstly, I am wondering if you all have any tricks, tips, and/or techs for consistently beating DnT?

Secondly, I started tinkering with my list with the DnT matchup in mind. I am toying with the list below--it brought my matchup in some playtesting from 20/80 to 50/50.

Lands:
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures:
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells:
4 Lotus Petal
2 Sylvan Library
2 Not Of This World
1 Fling
3 Sylvan Scrying
3 Into The North
4 Crop Rotation
4 Thoughtsieze
1 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pithing Needle

Sideboard:

4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Karakas
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Steely Resolve
1 Fling
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dread of Night

The idea I have for the matchup is to shoot for needling Wasteland, and then either Fling-ing or using Steely Resolve + Sejiri Steppe to force Marit Lage through, and not even making him until I have a guaranteed kill. Sometimes I've had success making Marit Lage turn one and crossing my fingers, though usually they have an answer. Just seems like a very tough matchup, so I'm experimenting with different approaches. As much as I like Flinging Marit Lage at DnT players, I think eventually I will settle on a more reasonable Steely Resolve-based plan, and maybe include Shizo.

Any input and feedback is welcome :-)

[DNSolver]

How are you beating Miracles consistently? What patterns to the games result in you winning? How are you sideboarding?

Edit: I guess I'll actually answer the post :)

Tips and Tricks for Death and Taxes:

1) Wait to play Pithing Needle. Since D+T lacks card selection, they are stuck with what they draw in most cases. Wait to play Needle until you see something you want to Needle, either from them playing it or from a discard spell. In order of priority, these are usually Wasteland > Vial > Karakas > Port / Mom if there's no clear choice.

2) Fast mana can usually come out post-board because games will likely take a while to win unless you catch them with a bad hand that folds to one Needle.

3) Against only Karakas up as they pass to your turn with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben out, Ghost Quarter on Karakas at the end of their second main phase if they have already played a land that turn. This prevents them from floating mana in their endstep to use with their Plains they fetch to Plow your token. This does let them play a 2nd Karakas from hand if they have it, so use this trick only when they have played a land that turn.

4) Allow / entice your opponent to Wasteland your duals / Urborgs instead of your Stages / Depths.

5) Stage can copy your opponent's Wasteland, Port, or Karakas. You can occaisionally use the Wasteland or Port ability to get around Karakas.

6) Bring in Karakas to stop Mangara of Corondor from turning off your entire deck.

7) Flickerwisp is their best card against us if they can get to the necessary mana / vial number. It kills Marit Lage with its ability, blocks, attacks for 3 to clock us, and can exile Pithing Needles for a turn to unlock their cards.

8) Hexmage is a good blocker / attacker in the matchup. You can frequently get in some points of damage that negates 2-4 points of lifegain from Jitte / Batterskull. Hexmage also sacrifices to remove counters from vial. This will prevent your opponent from putting the card they want in from Vial if you remove the counters in response. If your opponent says that Vial remembers how many counters were on it, that only applies if the Vial is killed.

9) Sejiri Steppe can counter Swords, Flickerwisp or Mangara's abilities, etc. However, one of its better modes is to get through blockers.

10) Try to copy Ghost Quarter with a Stage if you get a chance, to make sure you have access to a second Ghost Quarter effect if your first combo attempt does not work.

Some of these plays are pretty obvious, but that should be enough to win at least half your games unless your opponent really knows your deck as well as you do.

[jdmdave]

I'm not sure why you guys are having so much trouble with miracles. I've been beating it at around a 65% clip with the emrakul plan + decays.

[DNSolver]

Are you still on Promised End? What typically happens when you cast it? Or have you switched to Aeons Torn?

[hymnyou]

I'm not sure why you guys are having so much trouble with miracles. I've been beating it at around a 65% clip with the emrakul plan + decays.

I've wondered the same for a long time when reading this thread. My depths builds always have a assortment of tools for them and I have gotten a lot of practice over the past couple years against very strong pilots- over and over and over. Miracles is a deck I have preyed on for over a year, i find it 60/40 in our favor naturally and 70/30 vs bad pilots(most Miracles players). Dnt has way more natural answers and a much faster clock in my opinion. Almost every card in their deck is bad for us. Maverick type decks can be a challenge too, I found massacre hedges up these matches well, keeping speed, efficiently and then unexpected.

[jdmdave]

Are you still on Promised End? What typically happens when you cast it? Or have you switched to Aeons Torn?

Promised End. Mindslaver is better than timewalk vs them.

[chaosjace]

What meta or situations would fling and rites of consumption be used? How reliable are they?

[jdmdave]

Basically in response to your typical karakas/STP interaction or when facing down a baleful strix sans sejiri steppe. Problem is that NoTW is superior in these situations.

[Michael Keller]

Basically in response to your typical karakas/STP interaction or when facing down a baleful strix sans sejiri steppe. Problem is that NoTW is superior in these situations.

I've got to wonder if it's reliable against Lands and some sort of mirror situation. I think it's perfectly viable. If you can resolve the ability to make a 20/20 and have the ability to stretch the game out a few turns to have enough mana to cast something like Rite of Consumption or Fling they can't do anything like Maze, Karakas, etc. You just make it and dome them.

[Claymore]

My problem against Miracles is I run into Legends Miracles, where it seems about half the cards in the deck answer the combo.

Think I'll have to add a Shizo and go into the Promised Board plan.

Any input on successful Miracles boards?