[Deck] Turbo Depths

[solnox]

any of you guys keep a spreadsheet for Match wins/losses etc?

I started working on 1 again and wanted to see if other people's win rates etcc.

[Mr. Froggy]

What is the consensus on Living Wish in the MD? I've been out of the loop for some time and Turbo Depths is my main deck, so I was wondering since I found a list run by David Long and he ran 4 in his deck.

[jdmdave]

@solnox - I have won with N=143 matches @ 70.6% win rate (Comp leagues)

What are everyones thoughts on Song of Dryads vs SnT + Blood Moon/Bridge Mus? It answers every single Show target while also allowing us to "combo"off blood moon. Sphere has just not been doing enough for me recently.

Tentative Sideboard

* 2 Abrupt Decay
* 2 Song of Dryads
* 3 Surgical (3rd for Storm)
* 2 Ground Seal/Tomb
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Factory
* 1 Sylvan (1 Main)
* 1 Sylvan Safekeeper (Experimenting with 4th vs STP mus)
* 1 Needle

[perian]

What are everyones thoughts on Song of Dryads vs SnT + Blood Moon/Bridge Mus? It answers every single Show target while also allowing us to "combo"off blood moon. Sphere has just not been doing enough for me recently.

I was also tinkering about including this card in my 75 for quite a while. I additional really like the possible interaction with thespian's stage. The problem is, that it does not work with SnT (enchanting the opponents permanent which gets cheated in) because both permanents enter the battlefield the same time (as I understand the rules - please correct me if I am wrong). And in your own following turn it's to late against grisl and emmi.

And as classical removal for moon and bridge I prefer abrupt decays because it can not be countered.

[tilzinger]

From someone who has been playing the deck on Cockatrice for awhile, and finally getting to play it with paper tomorrow night, I have one silly question to ask the experienced players: Do you actually mark 10 counters on Dark Depths somehow? Or is it just understood that it has 10 counters on it until it doesn't? Even when playing on Cockatrice I rarely set the counters and only once did someone complain about it.

Now for one serious question: Thoughts on Gloom in the SB for D&T and Miracles? I won a Miracles match b/c I landed that card. It shut my opponent down pretty hard.

[DNSolver]

Sylvan Safekeeper is better than Gloom. Gloom can be played "through" by hitting land drops, which Miracles excels at. Safekeeper costs fewer mana so you are more likely to be able to cast it after a discard spell, and it completely and utterly changes the game as soon as it resolves.

You mark the 10 counters on Dark Depths. You just *have* to in paper, especially if you're playing in any kind of REL event. I have won games by removing 10 counters manually also.

[Hopo]

From someone who has been playing the deck on Cockatrice for awhile, and finally getting to play it with paper tomorrow night, I have one silly question to ask the experienced players: Do you actually mark 10 counters on Dark Depths somehow? Or is it just understood that it has 10 counters on it until it doesn't? Even when playing on Cockatrice I rarely set the counters and only once did someone complain about it.

Now for one serious question: Thoughts on Gloom in the SB for D&T and Miracles? I won a Miracles match b/c I landed that card. It shut my opponent down pretty hard.

Why would you not put the counters? To obscure the game state?

Gloom has been discussed in this thread before. You can try searching.

[tilzinger]

Why would you not put the counters? To obscure the game state?

I don't intend to obscure the game state. Everyone knows what the deck does. It comes in with 10, then you remove them all. Every game I've played it either has 10 or has 0.

Edit: I guess I'll break out the new 12 sided metal die :)

[gngpostalsrvc]

* 2 Abrupt Decay
* 2 Song of Dryads
* 3 Surgical (3rd for Storm)
* 2 Ground Seal/Tomb
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Factory
* 1 Sylvan (1 Main)
* 1 Sylvan Safekeeper (Experimenting with 4th vs STP mus)
* 1 Needle

How would you SB with the new plan?

[PeterSouth]

Have some gameplay scenario questions for anyone experienced with the deck:

Given the dealt hand: [pithing needle, expedition map, sylvan scrying, urborg TOY, elvish spirit guide, thespain's stage, vampire hexmage]

1. On the play G1 T1 against unknown opponent I have generally been keeping this hand - do you guys? For G2 and G3 could you explain what situation you would mulligan (depending on opponent, play or draw, and optimal sideboard included).

2. What would be your recommended turn one line of play here and why?

3. After playing your line (which the opponent did not respond to), the opponent played island and passed turn. You draw thoughtseize. How would you play next and why?

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Couple general questions:

4. I have been using my discard spells asap. Is that what you guys do, or do you hold them until you are about to make Lage?

5. I have been very rarely naming wasteland blind on the play unless like had low land count or made land combo in hand. Is that advised or do you guys do that frequently?

6. Several times I have used fast mana to pithing needle fetchlands (1-2). I don't think I have gotten any good results from it - Is this a play you guys ever make? I think couple times my urborg just made their land usable.

[criticalslay]

Have some gameplay scenario questions for anyone experienced with the deck:

Given the dealt hand: [pithing needle, expedition map, sylvan scrying, urborg TOY, elvish spirit guide, thespain's stage, vampire hexmage]

1. On the play G1 T1 against unknown opponent I have generally been keeping this hand - do you guys? For G2 and G3 could you explain what situation you would mulligan (depending on opponent, play or draw, and optimal sideboard included).

2. What would be your recommended turn one line of play here and why?

3. After playing your line (which the opponent did not respond to), the opponent played island and passed turn. You draw thoughtseize. How would you play next and why?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couple general questions:

4. I have been using my discard spells asap. Is that what you guys do, or do you hold them until you are about to make Lage?

5. I have been very rarely naming wasteland blind on the play unless like had low land count or made land combo in hand. Is that advised or do you guys do that frequently?

6. Several times I have used fast mana to pithing needle fetchlands (1-2). I don't think I have gotten any good results from it - Is this a play you guys ever make? I think couple times my urborg just made their land usable.

1. This hand is a snap keep; you have the combo and your hand isn’t excessively clunky. In G2/G3, well, this hand has a needle - so it’s obviously an opponent needle is good against. I would still keep. I would only ever mulligan this hand if I were against something like Storm or B/r reanimator.

2. I’d go Urborg, Map, go. You don’t know what you need to needle yet, and if you are going to get wasted, I’d prefer to have the land hit be Urborg.

3. Stage, Thoughtseize, crack Map EOT with spirit guide. If the coast was clear, you have a token now on turn 3. Congrats, you are probably going to win.

4. In the dark, fire them off ASAP. Only against Stoneblade and Miracles would I wait, and even then, only when I don’t have to worry about countermagic. As a general rule, fire off your discard - you have more disruption coming if you need it.

5. Really hand-dependent. Sometimes you can’t beat a wasteland, so think critically about your hand. Naming DRS is very common, depending on the game, even against wasteland decks.

6. Some decks don’t have targets beyond fetches. Sometimes you see their hand and naming a fetch is backbreaking. Sometimes you’ve drawn 3 needles and you just have to name SOMETHING. As you note, this play is very rarely /awesome/, but hey, gotta take what you can get.

Hope this helps. I’m sure others disagree with some of what I’ve written; there’s a lot going on with this deck and its MUs.

[caseyc]

I don't intend to obscure the game state. Everyone knows what the deck does. It comes in with 10, then you remove them all. Every game I've played it either has 10 or has 0.

Edit: I guess I'll break out the new 12 sided metal die :)

I actually end up ticking down manually a fair bit. I always spend the mana if I have it, and in grindy matchups or stalled out game states it can get you there. I've beaten ANT with a manually ticked down Dark Depths backed up by a Safekeeper swinging for 1 a turn. Not the preferred route to victory, but hey, sometimes that's what you gotta do :-)

[DNSolver]

For the first time on this thread in awhile I completely agree with someone else's post. Criticalslay's responses are pretty much exactly what I would say. Additions to those responses here:

3) Obviously, depending on the matchup, you don't *have* to crack Map with Spirit Guide to make the turn 3 token right away, since you have Hexmage too.

5) If my hand doesn't have anything better to do on turn 1, blind naming Wasteland with Needle is usually safe. The only time you get *extremely* punished is Sneak and Show or Reanimator when they are going for Sneak Attack or Griselbrand, but in some cases the Needle doesn't do anything.

[criticalslay]

For the first time on this thread in awhile I completely agree with someone else's post. Criticalslay's responses are pretty much exactly what I would say. Additions to those responses here:

3) Obviously, depending on the matchup, you don't *have* to crack Map with Spirit Guide to make the turn 3 token right away, since you have Hexmage too.

5) If my hand doesn't have anything better to do on turn 1, blind naming Wasteland with Needle is usually safe. The only time you get *extremely* punished is Sneak and Show or Reanimator when they are going for Sneak Attack or Griselbrand, but in some cases the Needle doesn't do anything.

RE: #5 - I find that with some hands, even if I have the needle, I wouldn’t care or even would actively want them to waste my turn 1 land. Some hands I think blind needle is correct, the more important takeaway is that you think before doing it. Even if your opponent has Wasteland, often (not always) a turn 2 needle is just as good.

[jdmdave]

Recently crossed the 200 matches threshold with the deck and STILL having issues with SnT. I'm willing to give up equity in the storm matchup (removing spheres) to somehow prepare for SnT in a GP meta.

[PeterSouth]

Recently crossed the 200 matches threshold with the deck and STILL having issues with SnT. I'm willing to give up equity in the storm matchup (removing spheres) to somehow prepare for SnT in a GP meta.

jdmdave, i cant help on your issue, but what is helping your UW control matches? i losing alot.

[caseyc]

jdmdave, i cant help on your issue, but what is helping your UW control matches? i losing alot.

I just bought into MTGO (Depths) last week, and got my first 5-0 today. So far MTGO has been a pretty good experience, and great practice. The meta is quite different--with a small handful of decks making up a huge portion of the metagame (mostly Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, UW Control, Storm, Lands, Sneak n Show and the occasional Reanimator). In talking to a few other friends who play on MTGO, the level of competition in league matches is stiffer than most paper events until you get to the top tables--so that has been great and challenging practice.

My list on MTGO is a little funky due to the price of Surgical, Collective Brutality, and Grafdigger's Cage being a bit high so I didn't buy them. However, I do want to include 1-2 more pieces of SB hate for Storm, as it is much more popular on MTGO than in paper. I'm leaning toward 2x Sphere, any suggestions from those who play online a lot? DNSolver prevented me from 5-0ing a few days ago -- he worked me over pretty good with TES :-) That's a bit of a rough matchup without SB hate.

The Rite (+Boseiju) SB plan has still been working quite well, though my most difficult matches have been against UW Control, Lands, and Death n Taxes. The Delver players online tend to be of a much higher quality than most of the delver players I run into in paper--and I've lost more to Delver than I ever have before--but now I'm tightening up my play against Delver and doing better again. Definitely getting some great practice, glad I finally bought into MTGO, as I will feel more prepared for future paper events.

[caseyc]

Recently crossed the 200 matches threshold with the deck and STILL having issues with SnT. I'm willing to give up equity in the storm matchup (removing spheres) to somehow prepare for SnT in a GP meta.

I've had pretty good luck against Sneak n Show. I try to always keep a hand with discard and/or needle. If I can discard or Needle their Sneak Attack, Show n Tell becomes a huge liability as I will play out Depths very early, and then show in the other half of the combo so unless they have Omni, they lose. Sometimes on the draw, if I have Depths and Hexmage in hand, I will play out Depths T1 even instead of discard spell, in case they T2 Show n Tell. But that's a bit of a risky move. What tends to go wrong for you in that matchup? Is there a certain play pattern you are having trouble with out of SnS?

[solnox]

I've probably played roughly the same number of matches as you jdmflc or even more on mtgo as I didnt really keep track until recently but my more recent stats suggest a 70% win rate across the board as well.

I don't have much issue with show and tell unless their name is JPA

I usually bring in 2 Surgical, 3 Spheres, Karakas, 2 Decay

[filln]

I've tracked about 60 paper games so far with a 72% match win rate, most losses have come from Sneak & Show and Lands.