@adrieng - does that version help any of the matchups? It seems like the deck substituted efficient land searchers like sylvan scrying for a win con that is just as weak to removal as our existing win con.
Dont get me wrong, I like the innovation, but is it just another way to build the deck or do you expect it to be superior to the other versions?
Other notes
- Mox diamond helps with mana fixing and works with loam.
- Mox + loam + fetchland can enable a t2 hogaak also.
- Fetchlands can be used to tutor up a dryad arbor which can be used to convoke hogaak and summon sickness is not an issue.
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Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Don't get me wrong, I love hybrid decks, but this isn't a compact graveyard strategy like Depths Reanimator pulls off. It needs an engine to enable it, one that takes too many slots away from the linear Depths plan (in my humble opinion.) I like trying new tech (Elvish Reclaimer) but I don't think you can both incorporate enough engine cards for Hogaak and still have enough percentage left over to make a 20/20 reliably.
I think the natural place to make room for Reclaimer is in the Expedition Map/Sylvan Scrying slots. It accomplishes the same goal, but with the alternative for fair beats. The creatures in the deck are fairly lackluster as beaters but Reclaimer is legitimate in the late game as a threat that lives through Lightning Bolt and beats for 3. Having more ways to have instant speed tutor applications is very appealing as well, considering it can tutor up Bog/Karakas/Ghost Quarter as early as turn 2. EDIT: Entering tapped is an issue with Karakas/GQ, but Bog is unaffected.
Rough list for testing:
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
3x Dark Confidant
2x Elvish Reclaimer
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
3x Pithing Needle
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
2x Sylvan Scrying
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
2x Sylvan Library
3x Force of Vigor
2x Rite of Consumption
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
8/8 trample turn 2 with cabal backup is pretty frequent,
or turn 3 20/20+8/8
EDIT previous list : in testing nurturing peatland is a better card than llanowar waste and winding way is better than pack
// 60 Maindeck
// 20 Creature
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Satyr Wayfinder
// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation
// 26 Land
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Khalni Garden
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Nurturing Peatland
// 10 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Winding Way
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
// 6 Creature
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Sylvan Safekeeper
// 4 Instant
SB: 4 Force of Vigor
// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 Duress
4-1 on league this morning beat rug delver, strom (briant cook),rug delver again ,lost to death and taxes then beat a 4c control deck with wren jtms goyf strix
followed by a 5-0 beat rug delver *3 the new burg delver and oops all
Also winding way might be a better option than gather the pack
Last edited by adrieng; 07-11-2019 at 05:22 PM.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 07-09-2019 at 06:31 AM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Trying to understand the adrien's DL...
It is an hybrid deck but an interesting hybrid…
As far as I understand, for T2 Hogaak, you need cast at T1 and T2 Sticher’s Supplier in order to have two B/G creatures to convoke and the 6 cards in the GY 5 to delve and Hogaak.
But even if you mulligan to have the 2 Stichers and B producing land you will depend on LUCK to have Hogaak in the 6 GY cards. Otherwise, you will have another way to do it, if you draw Hogaak and Therapy, you can Therapy yourself to entomb the Avatar. So, 1 B producing land+ 2 Stichers + Therapy + Hogaak will be the perfect 5... it is difficult even with London Mulligan, but possible
I can see how you can get advantage also with a combination of Sticher and Reclaimer if you get more than 3 lands in the GY, but since no Mox Diamonds and no cycling lands you will also depend on LUCK to have lands on GY before you start to tutor combo pieces with the Elf’s crop rotation effect.
With more turns, you will cast synergic spells (Gather the Pack...) and creatures that put cards in the GY and can be used for convoke…so, I understand , doing Hogaak wincon more probable than Marit Lage. but anyway you always will have the B-Plan tutoring the lands.
So it is a less-reliable combo deck that can fight very hard if go to midrange. Isn't it?
I may be taking this too seriously, but whatever, here goes: I'm not the one with the burden of proof. He's making a claim ("this [untested] deck is busted, tier 1"). If he wants to make that claim, he can try and convince me. Otherwise, I've stated my intentions of testing Elvish Reclaimer. With that I certainly will test and report back.
Specifically, I don't know how he's getting t2 Hogaaks.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
went 4-1 and 5-0 today with this list on mtgo league, so yeah the deck is good man.
You can even have turn 2 hogaak + marit lage turn one stitcher 3 card in grave turn two crop fetch urborg/depth 5 cards in grave vampire make 20/20 7 cards in grave cast hogaak with marit lage +stitcher.
winding way might be a better option than pack, pack is clearly the worst slot in the deck
also nurturing peatland might be the way to go
hogaak doesn't need to be in grave to be cast you don't need to therapy yourself you can cast it from hand
it has way better late game classic depth or slow depth, with lot of therapies to be cast to protect stuff hogaak beatdown plan 3/4 beatdown plan ; the deck is better in all way
only weakness is karakas cause you have only one off ghost quarter main and no needle.
EDIT :
did a third league went 4-1 beat storm rug delver *2 miracle and lost to lands (yeah karakas stuff is hard to beat :()
EDIT :
5-0 again this morning for my first league beat rug delver 2-0, br rea 2-1, 4 c delver 2-0, ur delver 2-0 and death and taxe 2-1
Last edited by adrieng; 07-11-2019 at 05:23 PM.
I got a set of Reclaimer, testing will commence. I don't know if some amount of Loam/crucible/excavator will be needed with the extra land sacrifices that will be made.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I saw some of you guys made it to my stream today. Didn't advertise here because I was playing adrieng's deck which is being discussed more at length in the New and Developmental Decks forum. Check out my VOD at twitch.tv/dnsolver if you missed my top 4 finish with Hogaak Depths.
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
I played DNS' list at my legacy event this week to 3-0
4 Dark Depths
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Wasteland
3 Khalni Garden
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Elvish Reclaimer
3 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 3 Sylvan Safekeeper
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Damping Sphere
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Assassin's Trophy
2-0 VS bw pox
2-1 VS storm
2-0 VS lands
I played a slightly different sideboard, and had my own concerns about the deck on paper.
1st, i saw the deck on paper, and instantly thought it was a joke. It's better than reanimator depths in having a plan b. Sometimes you get your opponent on the wrong piece of hate. And it's got serious gas.
2nd, I thought the lack of loam in a deck like this was a mistake, but after playing it as is, if we were loaming, we would've been losing. Loam isn't where we want to be here tbh. Maybe in the sideboard. Also, in games 2/3, being able to delve away your hit depths/stage to avoid surgical is a real thing.
My match ups were pretty interesting, with Hogaak winning more of my games than Marit Lage. The creature beat down is a much more real plan b. I think those of you who haven't actually played the deck, should do so before commenting.
I'm not entirely sold on mox tbh, there were a few corner cases where it let me cast spells. It fuels delve a little bit, but honestly, I missed the protection/proactiveness of pithing needle. I never got to swing with a 3/4 elf, or use his ability, he mostly just cast hogaak, but I imagine him doing work in the mid, late game. Coming into play tapped kinda sucks, but it shouldnt slow us down too much. However, our opponents were dead before any of that mattered anyways.
The only game I lost was a sick mull to 5 T1 storm kill. Where if he didn't go off, I had him with the t2 Marit lage.
Tl;dr
Hogaak deck is good. Is it better? Idk yet. Is it fun? Oh yeah.
ALL THINGS
NicFit
DarkDepths
G/B Pox
What's playing in my headphones, you ask?
Wizard Burial Ground
\m/
I just got my Reclaimers in the mail, looking forward to testing it out. Has anyone been testing it in a traditional (non-Hogaak) list?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Hey Hivemind, haven't been real interested in Turbo Depths lately, but Scheming Symmetry piqued my interest again -> checking to see if anyone been experimenting with it.
https://scryfall.com/card/m20/113/scheming-symmetry
Seems to me this card would be pretty sharp as a one mana tutor finding combo piece, pithing needle, or thoughtseize.
If you turn one scheming symmetry, I dunno if opponent would force of will it straightaway, but then they are either looking for wasteland or swords to plowshares. If they grab wasteland they may have had one in hand or were gonna draw it anyway and now have to play it to prevent you from going off the next turn and you can just needle it. If they grab plowshare, you can just thoughtseize, safekeeper, or therapy it/them away.
Later in the game, you would probably be scheming for card like needle, cabal therapy, life from the loam, decay, trophy, or maybe a good sideboard card.
Below is my old list. I am currently testing replacing 3 assassin trophy with 3 scheming symmetry and replacing thoughtseize with cabal therapy. I just noticed that trophy actually nullifies the top deck on their end, dunno if any other cards can do similar. On my end ancient stirrings can immediately get the tutor to hand.
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Crop Rotation
4x Dark Depths
4x Expedition Map
1x Forest
4x Lotus Petal
4x Pithing Needle
4x assassin's trophy
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Swamp
4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Thoughtseize
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Verdant Catacombs
Kinda an edge case also, but one of the things that disappointed me in the deck was lack of cantrip suite and sometimes getting dorked on green mana - symmetry could also be used to grab green land in a bind.
I like that Scheming Symmetry is a tutor for non-land cards; the deck already has Demonic Tutors for lands, but not for protection/Hexmage. I think you would want at least 1x Ghost Quarter, not only for Karakas but as a free way to shuffle with Symmetry. I would probably try 2 copies of Ghost Quarter in your list, because it would make Ancient Stirrings a small percentage better (Stirrings can't find Trophy.)
EDIT: I forgot GQ has a 'may' clause, so they could opt to just take the Strip Mine if the card they got is good enough. It probably tips the playability of GQ #2 down a little.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
We had our local monthly Legacy event this past weekend. 25 people and I went 4-0, and then scooped by round 5 opponent into top 4. We didn't play out top 8. I played a modified version of the Hogaak and Slow Depths decks. I wanted to test out the Cabal Therapy package with Khalni Garden, and Elvish Reclaimer. Reclaimer makes the Death and Taxes matchup a bit better as you have more access to rebuild if they interact with the combo but I am not completely sold. The deck felt very strong and Cabal Therapy was really nice against Elves. I was able to snipe a Natural Order after fetching for a Dryad Arbor which won me a game.
My Matchups were:
BR Reanimator 2-0
Slivers 2-0
Death and Taxes 2-0
Elves 2-1
Here is a link to the 75 I played:CreaturesHTML Code:https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2106105
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Elvish Reclaimer
4 Vampire Hexmage
Sorceries
3 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
Lands
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Khalni Garden
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Duress
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Karakas
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Pithing Needle
1 Plague Engineer
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Veil of Summer
1 Choke
has anyone tested or thought about adding wrenn and six to the deck somehow? He’s a 2 mana planeswalker that has 3 very relevant abilities for our deck. The damage is just enough to really frustrate D&T and maverick decks. The land recursion can be used for our combo, for wasteland or gq locks, or blocks with dryad arbor. Also, if it gets to that point I imagine retraceable crop rotation is pretty good.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Eli Kassis played Jund Depths to a 2nd place finish at a 2K recently, adding in red for W&6 (main) and Ancient Grudge (side): https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=22480&d=352888
PS: Nice playing ya the other week at Montasy, I was your opponent on Bomberman that got absolutely wrecked. 👋
Has anyone tried Blast Zone as a one-of tutor target?
it's in one of the lists above with wrenn and seems alright but its a pretty slow card.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
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