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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Depths

  1. #3241
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Three different versions of Depths recently top 8'ed a Legacy League, with local hero Mzfroste taking 1st place. Mox version w/Reclaimers in 1st, Maverick-ey version in 3rd (Sharkcaster Mage) and Hogaak Depths in 8th (NonsonosaN.)

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22758&d=355446&f=LE

    I feel that Reclaimer has a place in any Depths list, honestly. It's a little slower but the same overall mana investment as Expedition Map while providing a repeatable effect and alternative 3/4 beatstick. I think it will be come a staple in any/all Depths lists. I'm currently on 3 copies, debating a 4th, in a Lotus Petal/ESG setup. The slots it would have to take up are Sylvan Scrying, which is more efficient but less flexible.
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  2. #3242

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    I love how much brewing there is going on with Depths right now thanks to Hogaak and W6.

    This list is pretty fun to play: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...bg-89135#paper. Mengucci streamed a similar list recently and it feels like Hogaak and Depths are a really amazing 1-2 punch insofar as your opponent has to deal with two kill conditions. It crushed a bunch of fair blue decks.

    Now I'm wondering if there's a way to make this a Jund list to fit in a few copies of W6. Something like -1 Therapy, -1 Thoughtsieze, -1 Hexmage, -1 Garden, +3 W6, +1 Taiga. W6 is so busted with Mox Diamond and Wasteland but the issue is its such a tight list and everything plays a critical role so the answer might be its not worth it.

    The list could also potentially benefit from a copy or two of Loam and some cycling lands. Sylvan Library is another card that should probably at least be one of in the 75.

  3. #3243
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Seems like wizards print very interesting card for BG depth decks:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEB5KQ-X...png&name=small

    What do you think guys?

  4. #3244

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    i think it might see play in turbo version but it is not good enough for hogaakDepth

  5. #3245
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Digging 5 deep is pretty good, and it gets around Chalice@1 (I'm comparing it to Ancient Stirrings.) The great part GB Depths is that there are so many options to sub in/out depending on the metagame:

    Sylvan Scrying
    Expedition Map
    Ancient Stirrings
    Not of this World
    Elvish Reclaimer
    Satyr Wayfinder
    Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    Dark Confidant
    Mox Diamond
    Life from the Loam


    Depending on what the metagame is soft against you can build it with Loam/Diamond/utility lands, Wayfinder/Reclaimer/Hogaak, Scrying/Map/ESG, Confidant/maindeck removal for a 'Rock'-like approach, Stirrings/Not of This World. The core of the deck is Hexmage, Depths, Stage, and discard. From there you add the right mix of tutors/dig/disruption to adapt.
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  6. #3246
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    I am sure the answer is somewhere out there, but wasn't able to find it, so hopefully some kind ashen one might explain to a poor soul why Sylvan Scrying is played over Living Wish?

    Both are 2cmc sorceries. I don't see any real upside of SyScry, besides a free shuffle and more room in the Sideboard. The former is nice, sure, but the latter becomes somewhat relative, since Living Wish grants access to a virtual n-of-toolbox of redundant combo pieces and (nowadays pretty potent) silverbullets.

    Didn't call the department of redundancy department, so just guessing, but 3 Depths, 3 Stages, 3 Hexmage, 4 Living Wish and 1 copy of each combo piece in the SB alltogether add up to redonkulous amounts of virtual cards in my crazy coconut head. What am I missing? I see, this is slower than just playing 4-ofs main, but on the other hand there's more room for disruption/mana sources/fun-ofs/whatever. Situational stuff like Bog, Karakas or Tabernacle are still available G1 - for the demonic price of not being cräp rotationable until you board them in for G2 though.

    Please educate me before I de-educate you!

  7. #3247
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by splorf View Post
    I am sure the answer is somewhere out there, but wasn't able to find it, so hopefully some kind ashen one might explain to a poor soul why Sylvan Scrying is played over Living Wish?

    Both are 2cmc sorceries. I don't see any real upside of SyScry, besides a free shuffle and more room in the Sideboard. The former is nice, sure, but the latter becomes somewhat relative, since Living Wish grants access to a virtual n-of-toolbox of redundant combo pieces and (nowadays pretty potent) silverbullets.

    Didn't call the department of redundancy department, so just guessing, but 3 Depths, 3 Stages, 3 Hexmage, 4 Living Wish and 1 copy of each combo piece in the SB alltogether add up to redonkulous amounts of virtual cards in my crazy coconut head. What am I missing? I see, this is slower than just playing 4-ofs main, but on the other hand there's more room for disruption/mana sources/fun-ofs/whatever. Situational stuff like Bog, Karakas or Tabernacle are still available G1 - for the demonic price of not being cräp rotationable until you board them in for G2 though.

    Please educate me before I de-educate you!
    Short answer #1: its not as efficient.
    Short answer #2: it has been tried and foregone for a more reliable structure. I imagine the primer still answers this question as well.

    Edit: yes, it addresses Living Wish near the bottom of the primer.

    Edit #2: i've been practicing this deck for over a year and the consistency of having nut draws for t2-3 marit lage is worth the playsets in the maindeck. When you naturally draw your combo your tutors can address disruption (steppe, gq, bog.) Playsets give you the best odds of naturally drawing the combo, especially now with the london mulligan.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 10-01-2019 at 07:05 AM.
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  8. #3248
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    [...]london mulligan.

    Oh boy.....good morning....nuff said. Thank you!

  9. #3249

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Living Wish is nice and flexible... if you have the mana and time to use it. You're right that it's basically a Sylvan Scrying most of the time. There also is upside to being able to grab Ashen Rider, Reclamation Sage, Phyrexian Revoker, and other utility lands like Karakas.

    But if you have your Karakas in the board, you can't Crop Rotation for it. And if you play a 2nd one maindeck, that's eating into precious slots. Same argument for Sejiri Steppe, Wasteland/Ghost Quarter, etc. Something that Sylvan Scrying doesn't.

    Living Wish obviously forces you to play a Stage and Depths in your board, which cuts down on the probability of turn 2 hex + Depths plays and the probability of natural combo without casting a spell. These are invisible downsides that you won't notice while playing the card, unless you compare results across 10,000+ games.

    And I will point out the other big drawback: loss of sideboard space. While before you had 15 slots, if you spend slots on Stage, Depths, and Wasteland/Ghost Quarter, you are down slots for things that Living Wish *can't* get that you really need, like Surgical, Pithing Needle, sphere effects, Decay, Force of Vigor, etc.

    tl;dr Living Wish is an option but don't claim it has no downside vs Scrying.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
    -Refiner of Hogaak Depths.

  10. #3250
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    tl;dr Living Wish is an option but don't claim it has no downside vs Scrying.
    Eh, what....would you please point me to the part where you suspect me to claim something like that or where I state anything to be fact contrary to the present common sense? Like in "Hey, fools, I have no clue what's going on, but here is the lesson you never asked for!"?
    I was literally asking where the upside of Scrying vs Wish is. That's the exact opposite of what you are trying to pin on me here.

    What you probably mistake here is me trying to elaborate my thought-process to reflect where I'm coming from and why I don't understand the status quo, since Wishes supposedly had more advantages in my perception. I have almost no experience with this deck and I can imagine the question is trivial for veterans, but maybe also relevant for other interested noobs like myself. I have honestly no idea what made you come to this conclusion.

    Edit: It's even worse.....I was not only NOT argueing there is "no downside". Instead I was even mentioning some CONS I could think off.

  11. #3251
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    I've been where you are at, several times. I've asked this forum for advice, then argued against that advice (which I feel to be foolish, having experienced it firsthand.) Take the discussion for what it's worth, if you don't agree, try out your ideas yourself and report back. It took me over 100 games to even competently learn the interactions with a stock list. It's a deceptively complicated deck; the combo is straight forward but timing, disruption, interaction, sideboarding, and finding the correct window to make the token are all challenging.

    Good luck!
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  12. #3252

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    @splorf I mis-worded the tldr a bit. I was elaborating a bit on the differences between scrying and wish, and pros and cons of them. When you asked why scrying would be played over wish, I interpreted it as perceiving wish as superior. That's why I listed mostly downsides of wish.

    I view scrying as superior due to the downsides of wish, not the upsides of scrying. If that makes more sense.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
    -Refiner of Hogaak Depths.

  13. #3253
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by DNSolver View Post
    @splorf I mis-worded the tldr a bit. I was elaborating a bit on the differences between scrying and wish, and pros and cons of them. When you asked why scrying would be played over wish, I interpreted it as perceiving wish as superior. That's why I listed mostly downsides of wish.

    I view scrying as superior due to the downsides of wish, not the upsides of scrying. If that makes more sense.
    Yeah, ok, that makes sense to me then. Just wanted to clarify that I'm not that guy who accidentally stumbled across this primer and tellin' you what's right and wrong. I appreciate your answers, especially regarding pros and cons, since that's what I asked for. Just felt your conclusion was a tad off.

    However, now I know why Scrying > Wish. Thank you!

  14. #3254
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Three finishes for lists with Once Upon a Time so far. The decks' composition makes me wonder if the card will push Depths back in the Turbo Depths direction.

    Brian Rogers' 3rd place at the 160-player SCG Classic in Philly

    Robbert Valkeneers' 4th place in a 48-player tournament

    brog's 5-0 on MTGO

    Also of note, 2nd place at the 160-player tournament was G/W Depths, and 13th was Naya Depths. Both look less dedicated to the combo, the latter in particular, and maybe both go in some other category, with a Maverick-y flavor or something.

  15. #3255
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Three finishes for lists with Once Upon a Time so far. The decks' composition makes me wonder if the card will push Depths back in the Turbo Depths direction.

    Brian Rogers' 3rd place at the 160-player SCG Classic in Philly

    Robbert Valkeneers' 4th place in a 48-player tournament

    brog's 5-0 on MTGO

    Also of note, 2nd place at the 160-player tournament was G/W Depths, and 13th was Naya Depths. Both look less dedicated to the combo, the latter in particular, and maybe both go in some other category, with a Maverick-y flavor or something.
    I think these are just different flavors of Splinter Twin; threaten the combo and opponents can't handle the other half of the deck. I'm convinced that's why Hogaak-Depths gained so much traction. It's pretty cool, something that happened when Stage was printed ages ago: almost any deck can take advantage of Depths/Stage because it's a colorless combo.
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  16. #3256
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Is Once Upon a Time the truth? Been out of the meta for a bit... O.U.T > Sylvan Scrying?

  17. #3257
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Depths

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Also of note, 2nd place at the 160-player tournament was G/W Depths, and 13th was Naya Depths. Both look less dedicated to the combo, the latter in particular, and maybe both go in some other category, with a Maverick-y flavor or something.
    And the 1st place list was Lands playing the full Depths package. Depths took top 3.

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