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Thread: [Deck] Jund

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    [Deck] Jund



    This is the new thread. The old thread can be found here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...24956-DTB-Jund ~Nihil Credo


    Chapter 1: What is Jund?

    No one playing any format of magic at the end of 2012 needs to be introduced to what is probably the most reviled of any Alara shard: Jund.

    Jund is a combination of three colors, black, red and green. Simply put, this deck runs the most effective cards from those colors, combining them into a quasi-midrange "fair" deck.

    A fairly popular Jund deck has been Aggro Loam:

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...eck-Aggro-Loam

    It runs a lot of the cards from the basic Jund list, taking out some of the discard for the Life from the Loam engine, as well as several cards that take advantage of Loam, such as Seismic Assault and the Urza's Saga cycle-lands cycle (!).

    Currently, the most well-known Jund deck is the Modern version of Jund, which won several large events, including a few Grand Prix as well as taking 2nd place in PT:Return to Ravnica (damn eggs!).

    Ever since its inception in Shards of Alara, a Bloodbraid Elf/Blightning deck has existed, and generally dominated if enough people started playing it. Although Blightning has since falled out of favor, Bloodbraid Elf is a crucial part of the Modern version, and has started popping up in several Legacy lists.

    Personally, I do not like BBE as a card, but the power it brings is undeniable in a deck filled with efficient 1-for-1's as well as several powerful card draw engines.

    Since a lot of people have played Jund in other formats, it makes sense to give a high-level overview of what is different in the Legacy version of Jund, when compared to Modern:
    • Wasteland. No other card in the deck makes as large a difference as Wasteland does. Modern Jund is powerful because it can put forward large threats that require immediate responses or they can take over the game. Wasteland in Legacy allows Jund to not only do that, but put forth another angle of attack, mana denial. One of Legacy's premier decks, RUG delver, sometimes runs only 6 colored mana producing lands. You can run up to four Wastelands, and have the ability to get them back. They are almost-uncounterable, free Stone Rains. I originally considered making this list just one card, and it would not have been wrong.
    • Original Dual Lands. Modern Jund (whether 3 or 4-color) does a lot of damage to itself with the mana base. Each land coming into play tapped will slow you down significantly, especially since you run a discard suite that doesn't affect the board. You are forced to take a lot of damage (fetching a Ravnica shock-land to cast Thoughtseize removes a quarter of your starting life) quickly, and thus can fall prey to speedy aggro or burn decks. On the other side of the coin, you are often unable to take advantage of the damage dealt to your opponent. Having access to pain-free dual lands allow you to survive longer and establish a board presence.
    • Onslaught Fetch-lands. Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills are absent in Modern, and only Verdant Catacombs is available. Although 4-color Jund runs Marsh Flats effectively, 3-color is forced to run less effective Fetch-lands.
    • Sylvan Library. Although only played as a 1-of or 2-of, Sylvan Library is a very powerful card. The ability to have a free Sensei's Divining Top every turn adds up, and against certain decks, you are able to draw up to four cards during the game (such as High Tide). Since you are not really taking any damage from your lands coming into play, this is possible.
    • No Urzatron decks. As far as I can tell, there is no single match-up that is as horrible for Jund in Legacy, as Tron and others are for Modern Jund. The presence of Brainstorm keeps those ridiculous lists in checks, and allows you to run very powerful sideboard cards against Brainstorm decks, such as Red Elemental Blast.


    Now, that being said, why should you play Jund? What are the major strengths of this deck:
    • You run the most efficient cards that are not blue or called Swords to Plowshares. This phrase gets tossed around a lot when describing Jund, and most people have accepted it without thinking, myself included. What this means is that every card you play needs to be answered, or you are ahead significantly. Your discard costs one mana and takes away the most powerful card your opponent has. Your creatures are cheap, and either hit for a lot, or are a source of card advantage. Your removal is cheap and effecively and you run a lot of it. That is basically it.
    • The deck is very flexible. Most people miss this point. There are a lot of ways to build Jund, from the aforementionned Aggro Loam, to a discard-heavy deck for combo metas, to a removal-heavy version for aggro-matchups, to an effective anti-control package. Jund is versatile and your opponents will not know which configuration you are running.
    • You have no truly bad match-ups, and you have some great match-ups, unlike the Modern version. This point is very contentious, and while admitting that there are difficult match-ups, you are never completely out when facing any opponent. You have a great RUG delver match-up.
    • It is not a very popular deck, and it is difficult to hate out. Name one card that completely shuts Jund down. No such card exists, although there are several cards that hurt you.


    What are the major weaknesses of Jund:
    • Combo. This is less of an issue than most people make it out to be. It is true, once combo-decks get going, you are not favored. Your proactive solutions (aka. discard) are cheaper and quicker, but not as powerful as Counterspells. Top-decking a powerful card like Ad Nauseum, or Show and Tell is still a problem. However, most combo-decks cannot simply win with an empty hand, even with those bombs, and you have a lot of cards that help you get to that point.
    • Junk / Deadguy Ale. As a long-time Jund player, I hate this match-up more than any other. Where you run Lightning Bolt, they run Swords to Plowshares. Where you run Abrupt Decay or Maelstrom Pulse, they run Vindicate. They also run cards like Bitterblossom, Elspeth, and Hero of Bladehold that are very difficult to deal with. They also run Stoneforge Mystic and equipment, as well as discard, Dark Confidant, Liliana and Wastelands. This is a match-up where Bloodbraid Elf is your biggest ace, and it still might not be enough. Good luck. This is probably your worst match-up. More on this in the match-up section.
    • Burn. You have almost no way to interact with them, other than Inquisition of Kozilek, which has seemingly fallen out of favor, and sideboard, where you do not want narrow solutions against a fringe deck.


    This would be a good time to start on the meat of the primer, cards used in the deck. I will go over the most widely used cards and say a few words for each:

    Chapter 2: Jund creatures:

    Unlike some decks in Legacy, your primary win conditions are actual creatures that go in the red zone. Unlike UW Control, Jund, ostensibly being a part-time control deck, CAN just aggro the opponent very quickly. Burn and some very aggressive creatures can allow you to win before the other deck can set up.

    4 Dark Confidant: Dark Confidant will rarely live to see your next upkeep, although the existence of the Deathrite Shaman took some heat off. Since your opponent NEEDS to deal with this card if you survive the next few turns, every turn this lives is a huge bonus. Even combo decks can rarely afford to let this little guy resolve.

    People often side him out in matches like Burn or Combo, and that is a mistake. He is just that good. If nothing else, he can block a Goblin Guide, or eat a burn spell meant for your head. Even if he survives, think of it this way: every card you draw is a Time Walk. Even if you take damage, as long as the damage is less than the average damage taken by the cards in your opponents deck (add the total damage dealt by a burn deck and divide it by 60), you are still ahead.

    4 Deathrite Shaman: A one-mana planeswalker. Not only that, he has two toughness, which is an inexplicable bonus, and he can be cast with either of your two primary colors. He is good on every possible level.

    That having been said, people seem to exalt this guy a bit too much. He is not removal, which is a big thing, unlike Grim Lavamancer. In a format littered with things that you really wanna do 2 damage to, Deathrite Shaman's impact is more subtle. His primary ability is to catapult you a full turn ahead, being able to cast 3cc spells on turn 2, and 4cc spells on turn 3. His life-gain is especially relevant against RUG, a match-up you do not need more help with. His damage dealing is the same as the Grim Lavamancers, but you rarely use him as such early on.

    Finally, he is a good maindeck-able hate card against Reanimator, Life from the Loam, Snapcaster, Dredge, and various other insane strategies.

    4 Tarmogoyf: People have played less than 4, and some have played zero. I can safely say that they are probably incorrect, or a mad genius.

    Tarmogoyf is nothing new, and whatever people said about him, I am sure they said it better than I could. He is huge, for two mana, and more importantly, he can stand up to other people playing their own Tarmogoyfs. I would play 4.

    3-4 Bloodbraid Elf: Bloodbraid Elf is a marquee player in Jund decks ever since inception, and people have tried them in legacy before, to average success. In a deck designed to have the best 1-for-1's, a card that does something and leaves behind a 3/2 hasted body has got to be good.

    It is, but there are several drawbacks that make BBE a different animal in Legacy than it does in Modern.

    First, there are less permanents in a lot of legacy decks. Control and Combo decks often have little to no non-land permanents, and a large part of your deck is removal. Getting an Abrupt Decay or a Ligthning Bolt will never be completely dead, but it is not really something you want in certain match-ups. Flipping a Thoughtseize when you need a creature is similarly weak.

    The random aspect of this card can be a problem, given that it costs 4 mana. It doesn't mean that it is bad, but like in Modern, you have to know when to cast it, and this is a reason why most players do not play the full four.

    There are two reasons, however, why this card is incredibly powerful. First, it will require two cards to deal with. Jund is really good at attrition, and often your opponent will have nothing in hand. An unanswered 3/2 haste creature by itself is a problem, even on turns 3 or 4, if it flips over a Tarmogoyf that requires more immediate removal.

    Secondly, yes, it can flip you into a victory. Cascade still happens, no matter what your opponent does (short of a Stifle), and while they can counter your cascaded-into card instead of the BBE, you still traded 1-for-1 and have a hasty Delver on the ground. Not bad.

    0-2 Huntmaster of the Fells: I think it was Brian Kibler that, at one point, lamented Modern Jund as being a amalgamation of cards that do the exact same thing, and posited it as a reason why Jund is unhealthy for the format.

    We cannot possibly ignore anything Brian says. We have to try everything that might be good, and this is where I am now.

    Huntmaster might not be the best idea, and it might not be as good as BBE. However it does bring certain things to the table.

    First and foremost, you can cast into an empty board. With BBE, you do not want to waste the cascade. Cascading into a Lightning Bolt is fine, but getting an Abrupt Decay or a spare Liliana is a waste. Huntmaster is perfect in a top-deck war. It leaves behind a 2/2 Wolf if he gets removed, it gains you life, which could end up mattering, and most importantly, if it flips, acts as removal, and a monster.

    Bloodbraid does 6 damage over two turns. Huntmaster could do at least 4, and quite possibly 8, including the spare Wolf. Obviously he is a Lightning Rod for removal, however, Abrupt Decay doesn't hit it, the wolf still lives, and once he flips, he is surprisingly difficult to deal with. Sadly, Abrupt Decay WILL hit the night side, but that's life.

    You have to decide which 4-drop you want to use. This isn't modern, where you can use both.

    0-2 Scavenging Ooze: This card suffered more than any other by the advent of Deathrite Shaman, but Ooze is still incredibly potent as a creature. I played four of them and I never regretted it. Unanswered, it single-handedly beats RUG Delver and other decks, and it can get you out of a tight jam when you draw it after a prolonged creature battle with the various decks.

    The problem is that Deathrite Shaman is just... better, since it's pretty much a one-mana planeswalker. However, I would still try to find space for this guy in the maindeck, maybe only as a 1 or 2-of, because whatever was said for Shaman, this is almost as good, and it can remove a lot of cards very quickly. Remember to always use up your green mana if there are cards your opponent can use in their graveyards, unless you do not have enough to have it survive Lightning Bolt tricks.

    Finally, remember that it does require a lot of green mana, so manage your lands carefully.

    0-2 Grim Lavamancer: It's a testament to how good Grim Lavamancer was if people still play him when they have Deathrite Shaman.

    Grim Lavamancer is removal, simply put. He is slow, but unanswered, he invalidates entire decks. This is a reoccuring theme in Jund. He only has one toughness, which makes him vulnerable to all sorts of commonly (and less commonly played removal), such as Forked Bolt and Darkblast.

    He has been marginalized heavily with the release of Return to Ravnica, but still finds a home in slower, more grindy Jund lists.


    Chapter 3: Jund removal:

    The second aspect of Jund is the heavy removal suite that it plays.

    2-4 Abrupt Decay: The new kid on the removal block. Really, I cannot think of the last card that was as good as this thing. An instant "remove everything" is good. Again, people have extolled the virtues of Abrupt Decay for months-on-end, and whatever I can add is not going to make a dent.

    However, I do feel the need to add what it cannot kill: Jace, Elspeth, Show and Tell monstrosities, Hero of Bladehold, and man-lands. Luckily, you have other cards that can brutalize Jace, but the others are a real issue for Jund. Thankfully, the ability to kill absolutely EVERYTHING else makes this a mainstay until they print something better.

    4 Lightning Bolt: One mana, kill most things. Creatures, planeswalkers, win Tarmogoyf wars, and even end the game a turn quicker, since, you know, everything is a Time Walk. Lightning Bolt has been a staple of control and aggro decks since the beginning of time in 1993, and there will never be another card in Jund colors that is as good as this card.

    Sideboarding out Bolts almost never happens, not even against decks where they have no creatures. Even combo can be raced alongside your discard, and there are far more useless cards to take out.

    1-2 Maelstrom Pulse: Maelstrom Pulse is a card for the people that want to make sure they are able to kill any one card the opponent can possibly play. It is not wrong to include a number of these in your 75. For a while, I employed two in the sideboard to deal with certain annoyances like Leylines, Helms, Energy Fields, Planeswalkers and the like.

    At one point I believed this to be too slow, because I was enamored with Abrupt Decay. I no longer believe this to be the case, and 1 (preferably 2) in the 75 is the correct number. Even 1 in the maindeck is fine. It is really good, and can deal with stuff the rest of your stuff cannot. I once considered Engineered Explosives. This is better.

    2-4 Punishing Fire: I once played 4 Lightning Bolts and 4 Punishing Fires, and it was good. This was, however, before Abrupt Decay became a card.

    What is good and what is bad about Punishing Fires? First, the good:
    • You have a reoccuring source of damage. Punishing Fire, in multiples and with a lot of mana, is incredibly effective as a viable end game.
    • More removal for stuff that is annoying, including Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, various aggro creatures, and so on
    • Good planeswalker solution, especially Liliana. Jace is only slightly more resilient since he can tick up with 2 counters.
    • If Lingering Souls becomes ubiquitous, this is a great way to snipe those damned tokens.

    And now, what is bad about Punishing Fires
    • You need to find space in the deck without weakening an aspect. You can either exchange it for Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay, which seems the easiest solution, or you can run it alongside them.
    • Two mana for two damage is not exactly something to get excited about.
    • Deathrite Shaman and Wasteland are very popular
    • Your mana base is weaker. You cannot fetch Grove of the Burnwillows, and thus need to play at least 2 or 3, most likely 3.

    I have seen people remove Wastelands to fit in Punishing Fire, and I think that is a mistake. As I mentionned above, in the mana lands section, you have 3 lands that are sort of floaters, and you can certainly put in Groves in that spot.

    Both Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, I think, are better, but again, Jund is a deck that functions best if tailored to the pilot. It is not wrong per se to trim or eliminate those cards for Punishing Fires, and if your metagame asks for it, certainly go ahead. I am just saying I would not play less than 4 Lightning Bolt if I could help it.

    Nowadays, with Young Pyromancer making the rounds, Punishing Fire is again really good. They also seem to run away from using Wasteland, so the Groves are safer.

    3-4 Liliana of the Veil: For long I have advocated one thing: if Jace is the God Emperor of Planeswalkers, then Liliana is the god-damned Empress. No one I know actually disagreed with me, but people keep underestimating how absolutely devastating she can be.

    First of all, unlike all other non-Jace Planeswalkers, she has three relevant abilities, not just two and a meaning-less game-ending Ultimate that you only activate when you won the game anyway. Her Ultimate comes into play a lot sooner than most, and given the way she works and Jund is build, you will get there a lot. She only costs three, which is insane. She can come down on turn 2, thanks to Deathrite Shaman, and she single-handedly wins the game. You are rarely required to discard something relevant, and she is your out to many problems, such as incremental advantage cards of control and the broken combo pieces.

    Where is Liliana bad? Never. It really is that simple. At worst, against brutal streamlined decks like Show and Tell and Burn, she's a Time Walk. At best, even then, she can take over the game. Show and Tell needs two cards to function, and if you can land her and use your discard to lower their hand size, you are in business.

    People mention Lingering Souls. I question why they bring it up. Yes, she is not stellar against it, mostly because both her abilities do very little against it. This is all true, but it is irrelevant. Not very many decks play it (Wijaya's deck in Denver did, and Cox lost to it, but it happens), and you can always side out a couple of Liliana. Lingering Souls is a pretty damn good card against you, but it's not because of Liliana.


    Chapter 4: Discard and miscelaneous

    There are three cards that are relevantly used in Jund maindecks that fit the pattern of straight discard:

    Thoughtseize
    Chains of Mephistopheles


    This is an entirely new section, cutting from what was below. I strongly believe the correct way is to play a 4/2 split of the above cards in the maindeck.

    Obviously Chains is not a card that people have lying around but it is very powerful. People maindeck Pyroblasts now in large quantities (seriously, 3 Pyroblast maindeck), and that's a fine choice.

    Chains is an incredibly powerful card, able to shut down 25% of their deck in one fell swoop, and completely changing everything. If they do not have a kill condition and you are not at low life, this card just wins. The knock on Jund is that there is no Brainstorm (true), so you can't filter, and you must draw into the correct half of your deck naturally (true).

    Now the same applies to your opponent's blue deck, and your stuff is better than theirs, because your stuff does stuff and their stuff does nothing.

    People heralded the introduction of Treasure Cruise as the deathknell of Jund. Chains maindeck makes Jund more powerful than it ever was at any point, I believe. Of course, you still have the issue that you cannot filter, and Chains is really good on turn 2, not turn 21. However, keep in mind you are still a deck that murders everything that is on the field with your (often reoccuring) removal, so at some point, you will draw into the correct solution.

    Inquisition of Kozilek
    Hymn to Tourach
    Cabal Therapy


    Depending on your removal and creatures, you can fit anywhere from four to seven discard cards in the maindeck. The question is, which of the three is best? Let us take them one by one.

    Inquisition of Kozilek is my personal favorite, although it seems to have fallen out of favor with the printing of, you guessed it, Abrupt Decay. The reasoning (by Drew Levin I believe), is that you already have ways to get rid of stuff with casting cost 0 -> 3. This is true, and it is quite possible Thoughtseize is the correct choice.

    The issue becomes your life. Decks in Legacy have the very annoying ability to lower your life significantly out of nowhere, or effectively overwhelm you when at low life. Between burn, Dark Confidant, fetch-lands, and Thoughtseize, your life could disappear in a moment. I am a great fan of Inquisition of Kozilek. Every Thoughtseize means one less spell needed for your Storm opponent to kill you. This is not trivial. Often, Storm players will have an easier time casting one less spell, and more crucially, they will have a much easier time SEEING the play-line. This is not often considered, but it is true. Storm players will lose to themselves more than any other players, and every bonus -2 life you can give them will help them exponentially.

    Out of the cards that Inquisition does not hit, well, you can just see above, in the "What doesn't Abrupt Decay hit" section. They are still a very serious concern.

    Hymn to Tourach is a card that goes in and out of decklists more than almost any other card, including Force of Wills. One week, people are extolling the virtue of how good this card is, and the next, they are saying it is absolutely horrible.

    Think of it this way. It's a 2-for-1, and people are removing Force of Will (the defining card of TWO formats) saying it's a bad card... because you 2-for-1 yourself. I am a great proponent for Hymn to Tourach. You have such a reach against most decks, with the ability to generally remove anything, that Hymn can just WIN the game for you right away.

    At the beginning of this rant, I said that there are four to seven discard spots in your deck (not including Liliana), and sometimes this could affect which cards you choose. You also could store discard cards in your sideboard (against certain decks where your board removal is useless), so this further impacts what you can use.

    Thoughtseize over Inquisition comes down to how many times you think you will face aggro and burn over blue control or combo. Evaluate, and add accordingly. A 2/3 split (either way) also works, but you will sometimes stumble upon an Inqusition late-game when you really want a Thoughtseize. Generally, discard, especially Inquisition, lose potency over the long game, so that's another thing.

    If you have seven spots, use 4 TS/IoK and 3 Hymns. Curving your discard on turns 1 -> 3 (culminating with Liliana) is obscene, and will probably win you the game if you can somehow deal with their turn 1 play, if they sneaked it by. You probably can.

    4 or 5 discard probably means no Hymns, unless you want to JUST use Hymn to Tourach. It could work.

    1-2 Sylvan Library: Not much to be said other than what I said above. Free Sensei's Divining Top, possibly a free Ancestral Recall, this card can single-handedly win you attrition match-ups.

    So why only play 1? The theory is that multiples suck, especially when you draw them. This is true, but remember a few things:
    • You can discard it to Liliana.
    • If you don't draw it in your opening hand, your first Sylvan will ensure you never draw it.
    • Your library CAN be killed or countered, and people do so judiciously.
    • You can go look at 5 cards with two Sylvans. Since you need to resolve the triggers separately, you will need to pay 4 life to see one extra card, or 8 to see both.

    All in all, if you have the space, it is not a tragedy to play two of this incredible card.

    1-2 Sensei's Divining Top

    This is exclusive with Sylvan Library. Do not use both. Just don't do it.

    Eli Kassis, the brilliant mind, suggested this. I of course did not see the forest because of the trees... in an entirely different forest.

    Library and Chains do not work. If you even peek at a certain card, you have to discard one first, and still pay 4 life to keep the one you drew. Bad idea. Of course, you do NOT have to peek at all, since Library is a may, but idiots like me absolutely will forget.

    Sensei's will do for you the same thing it does for Miracles. Filter. You still cannot draw a card without discarding, but at least you can peek. You lose the bomb of paying 4 life to straigh-up draw a card, so the decision will come down to that.

    0-2 Life from the Loam: When I saw the Dredge mechanic spoiled in the original Ravnica, I was besides myself. It does WHAT?

    Wizards R&D claimed they would have to be hit by the bus to print something like Mana Drain again. They sure got hit by lots of busses since, it seems. Dredge, as a mechanic, is broken. Life from the Loam, as a card, in a format with Wasteland, is doubly so.

    This is not Aggro Loam. You do not have endless Cycle-lands to build an engine around. Life from the Loam functions strictly as a bomb that will allow you to thin your library with fetchlands, wasteland your opponent down to no non-basic lands, and protect your lands, getting them back if they want to play the land destruction game. Thus, Life sucks in multiples, far worse than Sylvan, but with two instead of one, you have a greater chance to draw it in the matches where it matters most.


    Chapter 5: Lands

    4 Wasteland: As I ranted about above, Wasteland is such a core card in this format, one could almost say it defines Legacy. Playing less than four is madness.

    One adage that people adhere is the importance of your lands is directly proportional to how many Wastelands you are playing. If your lands are less important than your opponents, play more Wastelands. The reverse is also true. I do not agree with this completely, but it can be true. Your effifient removal allows you to attack their mana base while using your life as a buffer. This is especially true against BUG or RUG, decks where you can kill any of their permanent lands.

    Bloodstained Mire
    Verdant Catacombs
    Wooded Foothills


    Fetchlands are another core of Legacy, and people debate what to play with them. In Modern, without Wasteland, your Deathrite Shamans are a liability sometimes, thus requiring you to play more. In Legacy, this isn't the case, so you do not need to go overboard.

    I believe 9 fetchlands is the correct number. Depending on your build, you could try 3 each of the above if you have all three basic lands. If not, adjust accordingly, but remember, your deck needs black the most, then green, then finally red. Something like 4/3/2 or 4/4/1 of the above is probably correct.

    Mountain
    Forest
    Swamp

    Badlands
    Bayou
    Taiga


    With 4 Wastelands and 9 Fetchlands, you have about 11 actual lands that produce mana. You need to split them amongst those two categories.

    A default group would be one of each basic land, two of each dual lands, and I do not recommend going below this number for each. You want basic lands to fight off against aggressive decks packing wastelands, because you want your removal and discard to always be live. You need dual lands because of cards like Liliana and either BBE or Huntmaster will put a strain on your mana, especially the double black of Liliana.

    The final two lands I recommend to be a swamp, and another Bayou or a Badlands. This will give you enough black to be effective, and not skimp on the other colors. In some match-ups, if you get Life from the Loam, the basic forest becomes critical.


    Chapter 6: Experimental Cards

    Lingering Souls

    Now, this is a card that keeps popping up in various decklists across all non-Vintage formats. It made a huge splash in Modern Jund at GP: Chicago as a way to fight other Jund decks, and address the weaknesses to Infect and Affinity and other random aggro.

    It does all of that. The question now becomes, is it good in Legacy, and is it good in Legacy Jund?

    It is very good in Legacy. Tom Martell won GP:Indianapolis back in March 2012 with that card. You get, overall, 4 1/1 flying spirits for 5 mana, which is not exactly broken when it comes to power for mana (I mean, Tarmogoyf!), but the fact that there is so many...

    But what you did notice is that Lingering Souls is a DEFENSIVE card at heart. It is used to stall things coming your way. Now, which match-ups do you want to stall things?

    Goblins and Affinity are two good options. Being able to block and kill Signal Pest and other annoyances is great. Goblins usually wins by chaining Ringleaders and Siege-Gang Commanders, which will quickly overwhelm you without a sweeper, so I am not entirely convinced that it helps.

    Finally Elves and Infect either win through a monstrous rush or before Lingering Souls becomes active, although Deathrite Shaman definitely helps the Infect match-up.

    There is one more match-up: Deadguy Ale/Rock. They do not run sweepers in general, and they are an annoying match-up. They run Lingering Souls and Bitterblossoms to clog up the board, and you might need the extra punch of Lingering Souls to keep up. It will not make that match-up any less annoying, but it could be something.

    Now I will tell you why I don't think you should play this in Jund.

    First of all, you need white, and that means at least one extra dual land, which will have to replace a basic land. This isn't a tragedy, but it is definitely something to consider. You are making your mana base significantly worse, and some of the decks where Lingering Souls helps against have Wastelands. This is a bit of a "robbing Peter to pay Paul" type of scenario.

    Secondly, you do not have equipment. Yes, you notice that Rock/Deadguy/Tom Martell all have/had equipment to slap on a token and go to town with. You do not. This might sound like a small complaint, but small complaints do add up.

    Thirdly, this is not modern. Combo decks are everywhere, and Souls is very slow. You might have enough control elements to not die on turn 3, but you still need to present a clock, and Lingering Souls is not a serious clock. It also takes up a lot of mana which might be better spent elsewhere.

    So, all in all, I do not think this is going beyond experimental. I would like to be proven wrong, however.


    Ulvenwald Tracker

    Homer: [ahem] A lot of you would think I was crazy if I did this. [burns a dollar bill]
    Burns: He's crazy!

    A lot of you would think I am crazy for suggesting this. Isn't Grim Lavamancer strictly better?

    Grim Lavamancer is a fantastic card, burning up things left and right, and going after the opponent when there is nothing that he can kill. However, he suffers from several problems:
    • Lavamancer is very graveyard dependant, and you need to not forget about your Tarmogoyf, Deathrite Shaman and your opponent doing unsightly things as well.
    • Lavamancer cannot kill some of the larger monsters that you need to take down, including Tombstalker and Hero of Bladehold.
    • Lavamancer is bad in multiples, so Ulvenwald Tracker could function as suplemental Lavamancers.

    So, what does this guy do well? For once, he can quickly remove an opposing Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Vendillion Clique by himself. So in a way, he acts as removal. He does this even early, when your graveyard is not as full as you would like.

    He has a lot of synergy with Tarmogoyf as well. First, you win Tarmogoyf wars. It is a good trade to clear an opposing Tarmogoyf with this guy. Secondly, it turns a Tarmogoyf into a killing machine of opposing creatures, as he will survive whatever you want to kill. It is not unlikely to be able to snipe down a Tombstalker with a 5/6, which Tarmogoyfs will be usually in the long game.

    I do not think this will break the format in half, and it might be less effective than Lavamancer even given the above, but it's worth keeping in mind. I will certainly test one.


    Strangleroot Geist

    Antonius suggested this little guy and he certainly is interesting. First, let me tell you that the persist and undying mechanic (especially undying) are a favorite of mine... this is legacy.

    Path to Exile is a card that is fairly common in Modern, and less so in Legacy. Swords to Plowshares however, is a 4-of in a lot of decks, including Junk.

    That being said, Strangleroot Geist might just be good enough to circumvent this, whereas Kitchen Finks and Geralf's Messenger might not, despite those being superior cards.

    Each card has their advantages. Finks gain you 2 life, the Messenger drains them 2 life, and the Geist has haste and costs one less, which ultimately is what drew me to it over any other.

    A lot of people will look at Finks and GM as a do-nothing on turn 3 against combo, and they would be right. The Geist comes in one turn earlier, and is already in business, leaving your third turn to either keep mana open to deal with the broken-ness or use a discard spell to help slow them down.

    Furthermore, the undying mechanic has one more bonus with a card that was recently promoted to maindeck instead of experimental, Cabal Therapy.

    I talked (or will talk, as of this writing) about Cabal Therapy a lot, because there is a lot to talk about, but having an undying creature grow bigger from the flashback cost is really nice. Unlike Lingering Souls, the Geist is quick and does similar things on defense, albeit on the ground, and generally shouldn't be defending anyway.

    You need to play 3-4 of these guys to get any benefit, 4 most likely, and it does speed your deck up.


    Searing Blaze

    Another Antonius suggested card, Searing Blaze has long been a staple of some burn decks, and it might have a home in Jund.

    First, it passes the "Jund damage test", being able to act as removal. Doing 3 damage to your opponent and sniping something is very good. It still sadly doesn't kill big things, and it is conditional upon Landfall, which generally we can work around if we control the lands we play.

    Keep in mind that Searing Blaze has two targets. You need to be able to target both the player and their creature to cast it, which makes it as useful as an air conditioner on the ice planet Hoth when they have a Nimble Mongoose out.

    This will not be a 4-of in any Jund deck, but I could see it being a 2-of in a more burn heavy build.


    Chainerís Edict
    Diabolic Edict

    Matt Pavlic, I think, suggested this card, and people have done well with it. I bunch both of them together because the differences are clearly visible, however, the cards to the precise same thing: They make them sacrifice a creature that you probably could not kill otherwise.

    This is a Liliana of the Veil for cheaper. The one black mana does make a lot of difference, especially since you can cast it on turn 2, or even have Daze backup on turn 2 with a Deathrite Shaman. This is a big deal.

    So why Chainerís over Diabolic? Matt suggests that the flashback is relevant, as hitting 7 mana is possible and more important than it being instant. Letís look at the instances where the card is even necessary:

    - Show and Tell / Sneak Attack-> Emrakul (Griselbrand hitting the field is a problem regardless of which card)
    - True-Name Nemesis

    Against Show and Tell, of course, having Diabolic Edict in response to them Emrakul-ing is pretty good, the card could win the game right there and then. It is *unlikely* that it will always work, but it will give you some percentages.

    Against TNN, of course, Chainerís is probably more relevant. The stupid Merfolk has a way about it to make the game go long, and squeezing every little bit out of your cards could be the winning ticket. So I think that it comes down to that. Decks running TNN donít have an over abundance of mana, so theoretically, you could overload them anyway, and you would do that by casting something at the end of their turn, so even Diabolic is fine in that situation. Either way, this is a powerful effect and warrants inclusion.
    Last edited by razvan; 11-25-2014 at 05:36 PM.

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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Chapter 7: Sideboarding and Match-ups

    It is hard to set up a sideboard in a primer, because so much changes. I will talk about each match-up that is relevant first, then list some cards that are useful. I won't bother grouping the decks in fair and unfair, because I do not necessarily believe that helps in sideboarding.

    For the sake of abbreviation, I will use the Pyroblast when referring to either Red Elemental Blast or Pyroblast. Pyroblast is better if you use Bloodbraid Elf, as you can cast it doing nothing and still have it end up in your graveyard for Deathrite Shaman or Tarmogoyf.


    Show and Tell

    Might as well delve into the big one. Show and Tell wins in various means, be it Hive Mind, Sneak attack, Omniscience, or just by putting in a huge monster into play.

    Depending on their strategy, your game can be really hard or really easy. If they plop down an Emrakul, and you happen to have a Liliana you can cast next turn, thank them for a 2 for 0 (you keep the Liliana and the card you put into play).

    If they put down a Griselbrand or an Omniscience, well, things will get rough, and you do not want to let that happen. Sneak Attack has fallen a bit out of favor right now, but it is still there, and is probably your hardest thing to deal with, since they can also just hard-cast it and there is nothing you can do about it.

    As a general rule, the more discard you have, the better. They have a devil of a time dealing with an active Liliana if they haven't gone of, and your pinpoint discard, and Hymns, will break them.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast
    Surgical Extraction
    Krosan Grip
    More Discard

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Abrupt Decay
    Lightning Bolt

    You put enough pressure with your control on them to make Lightning Bolt actually useless, as you won't try to race them. Keep them in if you don't have enough other things to take care of their stuff. Surgical complements your discard a lot, so if you have it, and I recommend you do, it can be very powerful. Finally, Krosan Grip can kill Sneak Attack, if they have it. Do not really bother bringing it in against Omniscience, but if they have no action, hey, congratulations.

    Your Abrupt Decays can and should try to nail Lotus Petals in game one, and sometimes you can luck into a win that way, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


    High Tide

    High Tide really is another two-card combo deck, and it runs less actual protection but far more filtering than Show and Tell. They can win on turn 3 with Turnabout, but it is likely you have until turn 4, where their chance of fizzling is low.

    Keep in mind that they CAN win without Time Spiral (unlikely, but possible), but they CANNOT win without High Tide, and conveniently, your Inquisitions do take that card.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast
    Surgical Extraction

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Abrupt Decay
    Lightning Bolt
    Wasteland

    Do not bother with Candelabra of Tawnos. It is an excellent card for them, but like Show and Tell, don't bother with it. Your match-up is not that bad if you run a lot of discard, and Pyroblasts and Surgicals will make it even easier. If you have space for Lightning Bolts in your maindeck, leave them in to give you a chance to win one turn earlier. Take out a Wasteland or two if you want to keep the Lightning Bolts.


    Storm

    Storm is, in a nutshell, dependent on the pilot. Good storm players are a huge problem, less experienced players will fold to your discard. Depending on the build, you also will have a huge array of helpful sideboard cards, while they are unable to bring anything in.

    Also, there are so many variations of Storm that you cannot possibly prepare for every avenue. It is better to try to stop their common ways, like Brainstorm, and disrupt their rituals.

    First, know that they might have basic lands. If not, your Wastelands are great, such as against TES. You are generally unable to deal with them top-decking an Ad Nauseum. This can and will happen. The good news is that it is not trivial to win with very few cards in hand and zero storm. They can chain Lotus Petals, LEDs and rituals into a lethan blast with just one card in hand, yes, but it is unlikely, especially if you put pressure on them. There are tricks with Burning Wish and Tutors, especially if they start an Ill Gotten Gains loop, so don't durdle around, be as aggressive as you can. Their AN will rarely kill them, but your Lightning Bolts can be a surprise for them, so hedge them if you can.

    Try to think of the quickest way to kill them, and cast cards accordingly. If they have 6 cards in hand, do not cast Liliana over a Tarmogoyf. If they have 2, then it is obviously a much better play. Think ahead, because they will, and make the best of every opening they give you. Every turn you live past turn 3 or 4 is a bonus.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast
    Surgical Extraction
    Duress

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Abrupt Decay
    Scavenging Ooze
    1 land

    They will bring in Dark Confidants, or more Empty the Warrens against you. You still have Lightning Bolts. Use them. Overall, there are worse things you could face than Storm.


    Belcher / Spanish Inquisition

    SI is a combination of Storm and Belcher, but unlike Storm decks, they have no filtering. They are a turn-1, all-in type of deck. What can I say, you have no Force of Wills, these decks pray on decks such as Jund.

    Or do they? Well, there is not much you can do if they win the die roll and win on turn 1 both games 1 and 3, short of packing Leyline of Sanctity. Leyline is ONLY good against these guys and burn, so if you expect a lot of these decks, finding space could be good.

    However, sometimes you will find that they will not be able to win on turn 1, and then your hand becomes important. Obviously try to have some sort of discard if possible (especially on the play), but also try to think about how you could win. Although these all-in decks cannot recover from a fizzle, it is possible, especially in the case of SI. Do not keep unplayable hands that do nothing until turn 4, and even then, are able to just cast a random BBE. Try to put early pressure on them, and hope to draw into more discard.

    Obviously, turn 1 discard, turn 2 Hymn, turn 3 Liliana is a fine opening as well.

    Good cards against them:

    Surgical Extraction
    Duress
    Ancient Grudge

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Abrupt Decay
    1 land
    Lightning Bolt

    You plan on them fizzling, minus the Duress. A timely Surgical could help as well. You bring in Grudges for Decays because they can sometimes cast a Charbelcher to avoid your discard, but still wait for mana.

    Good luck.


    Ichorid

    Well, you know how it goes. Ichorid, in some sort of shape, has to exist for as long as the mechanic is legal. Hopefully, it will always be legal.

    First, I like the name Ichorid for the deck. It's old-school, and sounds better than "dredge". So I will keep using it.

    A lot of us came from Vintage, where Dred... I mean Ichorid... is a menace that requires a significant part of the sideboard to be dedicated to it. The very existence of Bazaar of Baghdad as an uncounterable way to get everything going sees to that. There is nothing even remotely close to anything as powerful as that in Legacy, so the deck doesn't inspire the same amount of horror as the big brother.

    That being said, it *can* win on turn 1, something that Vintage Ichorid doesn't actually do. An opening of Land, 2 LEDs, 2 Faithless Lootings and 2 Golgari Grave-Trolls have happened. Yes, it sucks, but chances are this shan't be a regular thing.

    So what can you do game 1? Well, Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze get some mileage. If you are able to go first, and they do not go crazy, you can certainly catch them with a weak discard effect or a weak discard in general on the back of the Shaman. Your Hymn to Tourachs are obviously weak, but your other discard could be effective at getting an LED or a Faithless Looting. Other than that, you hope they stumble or fizzle, because if they get going, they are nigh unstoppable.

    Past game 1, you should have some sort of plan that will hopefully balance things out:

    Good cards against them:

    Surgical Extraction
    Leyline of the Void
    Nihil Spellbomb
    Tormod's Crypt
    Relic of Progenitus
    Damnation
    Pyroclasm
    Maelstrom Pulse

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Hymn to Tourach
    Thoughtseize

    Generally, the more you have, the better it is. Graveyard hate, in all it's form, have to exist in sideboards, and you bring it all. You have a non-trivial amount of maindeck graveyard hate too, and it will certainly come in handy. As usual, try to see what they can do, and how you can best stop it. Remember to use Surgical Extraction in response to a lot of things, as their Narcomoebas and Bridge from Below have to be in the graveyard for their abilities to resolve. If you can remove Narcomoebas and the next best come into play creature, be it Ichorid, Bloodghast or Nether Shadow, you should be in good shape. You can also kill your own creature in response to a large set of Bridge from Below triggers to make nothing happen, but that's not of great help if they reanimate some sort of monster.


    Elves

    Yes, Forest, Llanowar Elf. Great, it's 1993 and we are all 12 again. Except, these people win on turn 3. Great, again.

    Elves is a deck that you have a lot of interaction with, which is unusual for combo decks. You have discard (even Hymn is huge), and removal for everything.

    It is difficult to provide an "order" of elves to kill. Everyone says Wirewood Symbiote, and they are not wrong, that card is enemy #1, as it can make your removal useless with self-bounce, and is part of the combo. Next is Heritage Druid, especially if paired with Nettle Sentinels. They can go infinite with that combination.

    Any elf that makes mana if you have a surplus of removal at your disposal. A first turn Llanowar or especially Deathrite should get judiciously removed.

    One of their aces is Natural order for Craterhoof Behemoth, which, as the name suggests, is a big deal. Chances are that you will be overwhelmed, so watch out for that. Always use your removal with that in mind, and count your life and their creatures.

    Finally, Glimpse of Nature is their engine, and stopping it will make the game a lot easier.

    Overall, Elves can go explosive, but you actually have interaction.

    Damnation
    Black Sun's Zenith
    Pyroclasm
    Cursed Totem
    Engineered Plague

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Huntmaster of the Fells / Bloodbraid Elf
    Liliana of the Veil
    Wasteland

    Generally, your sideboard should have some sort of mass removal, and it all is incredibly live against Elves. Pyroclasm comes down early and cleans up, just make sure you use it before they go crazy. Damnation and BSZ are all-stars as well, and I have used them effectively against decks that have Knight of the Reliquary or Tombstalkers, or Hero of Bladehold.

    Finally, Engineered Plague just wins you the game. If you have about 3-4 cards that are relevant against elves, your maindeck is strong enough to just plow through them.


    Goblins

    Goblins is always on the map, then off, then on again, then off again. Preparing for Goblins is simply pointless. If you have the removal you should against Elves, you will find they are simply an aggro version of the combo Elves.

    They have a few threats you need to be aware of.

    Siege-gang Commander is a serious problem. He attritions you down, he is un-Abrupt Decay-able, and can win in a top-deck. Goblin Ringleader and Goblin Warchief are their engine and fast mana, so watch out for those. Discard should be pointed at those two over anything else.

    Finally, everyone knows the story of first-turn Goblin Lackey. If you have a way to deal with it, like Lightning Bolt or Deathrite Shaman, you should be ok.

    The only thing Goblins has that elves doesn't are Wastelands and Rishadan Port. Aether Vial is also a card, but your discard will make it useless. I wouldn't really worry about it unless they have Wastelands and Ports to make it matter.

    Sideboarding is the same as above, except Liliana is slightly better. You should be ok against Goblins as well.


    Affinity

    Affinity is generally not a problem, now that we have Abrupt Decay. This card single-handedly changed the game. They are about as fast as Elves or Goblins, except you have more interaction with them post-game 1, as Ancient Grudges, Krosan Grips and the like are coming in.

    Not only that, their land is very vulnerable, unlike the rock-solid mana of Elves and Goblins. Really, you have so much that is good against them, you do not need any help.

    Good cards against them:

    Damnation
    Black Sun's Zenith
    Pyroclasm
    Ancient Grudge
    Krosan Grip

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Huntmaster of the Fells / Bloodbraid Elf
    Thoughtseize

    Really, you have so much to bring in, pick their poison. If you fear their Etched Champions, you should keep your Lilianas in. They are fast, but they have so many vulnerabilities that Jund should prey on their deck.


    RUG Delver of Secrets

    In all honestly, your deck is designed to beat them. They have a good clock and they have disruption, but you have cheap and effective removal. Not to mention, they run all non-basics, and sometimes only have 6 actual lands that produce mana. If they do not have an early Delver, and you have Life from the Loam, there is almost no way you can lose. Game one, in fact, is a joke, as they have almost no way to deal with anything.

    Game 2 (and chances are you won't need a game 3), they will bring in several things including Submerge, and maybe some graveyard hate, especially if they lost to Life from the Loam. If they do so, congratulate them on dead cards.

    Sumberge can be a problem, however. They are moving towards some sort of singularity when all their cards are free, and in addition to it all, not being able to block with your Tarmogoyfs, and losing Shamans randomly, can push them slightly over the edge.

    No matter though, the match is still easy.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Thoughtseize

    This is not necessary. You just generally take out something that does damage to you to have a bit more buffer, and take out something to deal with Sumberge. Keep in mind that they will side in Sulfuric Vortex, so make sure you have a plan for it. Overall, they should not be a problem for you.

    If you are facing the UR version, with more burn and no green, just realize that they are simply a slower burn deck with Stifles and Snapcasters. Slightly more problematic, but nothing you shouldn't handle.


    Burn

    Burn is a problem. Unlike the other linear decks, there is no way to interact with them. You can use your removal on stuff like Goblin Guide and Vexing Devil, but beyond that, you are at the mercy of their direct attacks.

    Hymn to Tourach and Inquisition of Kozilek are all-stars, and if you get a hand heavy on those, you should be able to win, but other than that, I wouldn't really hold a high hope.

    Dark Confidant is an interesting card here. First, look at it this way: you need to kill them before they kill you, minus Leyline of Sanctity. On average, their spell does 3 damage, so you have 7 cards that you can survive, 6 if you figure damage from fetchlands and such. Dark Confidant will do less than 3 damage to you, on average, and if you can make it block a Goblin Guide, it's great. Him dying is a bonus to your Deathrite Shamans.

    Finally, you need luck, so you should hope he gives you lands while you naturally draw more stuff. He also helps kill them, so I wouldn't side them out, and might even try to aggressively use him.

    Since their deck is about a third land, that would mean that 9-10 cards would be enough to win the game. Any discard spell is basically a Time Walk, and Hymn to Tourach is a Time Stretch!

    Deathrite Shaman is not as effective as you think, because you would need dead creatures to gain back life. This is a very awkward scenario... as they run few to none.

    Good cards against them:

    Obstinate Baloth
    Leyline of Sanctity
    Umezawa's Jitte

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Thoughtseize

    This is about the extent of cards that are useful against them. Really, you cannot afford to run Leylines, but Baloths could be a good idea now that Jund and BUG are gaining popularity. Finally, some Jund lists run 1-2 Jitte, and while I do not think that's an optimal card, if you have it, use it and hope.


    BUG Aggro

    This deck is a bit more annoying than BUG, but suffers from similar problems. They are generally unable to win as fast, and have an equally vulnerable mana base, although they run a couple more lands. They traded Nimble Mongoose for Deathrite Shaman, burn for Hymn to Tourach, and add Tombstalker as their big finisher, as well as have Abrupt Decay as their main removal.

    They still run big blue cards and spend their turns durdling around with Ponder and Brainstorm, all the while giving you time to outmuscle them. Do not get me wrong, they are far more dangerous than RUG, but not having that little hexproof bastard is a great thing. Your removal is incredibly live, just watch out for Tombstalker. If you have a first turn discard, prioritize Hymn to Tourach above anything else, as it will put you into too big a hole.

    Good cards against them:
    Cards to sideboard out:

    That's right, I wouldn't really get too much in or out. Your deck works fine against them. Their plan is to maybe bring in Sinkholes, especially when they are on the play, and maybe a graveyard hate card or two. Keep a stable mana base and just grind them out. They have nothing as powerful as your BBEs or Liliana of the Veil. Pyroblast is fine if you think they are going to go big blue against you.


    BUG Shardless

    These guys basically take the normal BUG sans Delver of Secrets, strip a lot of the anciliary stuff like Tombstalkers, Ponders, other random non Abrupt Decay removal, and shove in 4 Shardless Agents and 4 Ancestral Visions, and some Planeswalkers, mostly Jace and Liliana. They also have less of everything else, including Hymns.

    Whereas you wanted to be the control deck vs. the other BUG, this time you are strictly the aggressor. Just go over them. There is very little you can do if they get to cast a Shardless Agent, just hope they do not hit Ancestral. They are slower and keep the terrible mana base of BUG, so your wastelands are incredibly good.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Random Assortment

    You can safely ignore most of their stuff, but you really don't want to get them to resolve Ancestral. You can trim some cards like Lightning Bolt, since they only work on their Shamans and Jace, and you have Abrupt Decay and discard for those. They do run a couple of Liliana's you want to watch out for though.


    Stoneblade variants

    Best advice I can give you is to stick a Dark Confidant and protect it. Stoneblade is an excellent deck that sometimes gives you openings the size of the Soviet Union when they durdle around. Their Stoneforge Mystics are generally not going to do much because of your removal, and they are trimming on their Force of Wills because they cannot afford to trade 2 for 1.

    Generally, they are mostly of the Esper configuration, which also means Lingering Souls. Most people piloting Jund are terrified of Lingering Souls, and it is a powerful card if you do not have Maelstrom Pulse. If you expect a lot of these decks, pack a couple in your 75. Most players will not expose Lingering Souls to graveyard removal if they can, so you do have time. A single Fog effect is a lot better than two, or even four.

    The problem with Stoneblade, however... they are very good at stalling you. Gobs of removal into Snapcaster Mage into more removal, as well as pinpoint discard, sweepers and Jaces makes for a difficult game. Hymn and Dark Confidant, if they happen, are a huge advantage, especially as they run a lot of lands. Be as fast as you can and do not try, do not even think about, trying to play the control game against them. This is as pure a control deck as there is.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast
    1-2 Ancient Grudge

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Inquisition of Kozilek
    Scavenging Ooze
    1 Land

    As loathe as I am to slow the deck down, you need to be able to answer their big things. Countering a Jace and dealing with their equipment is huge. Abrupt Decay is not as good as you think it is, so that might mean a cut. Ancient Grudge is very good, especially if you draw them both, as it means neither of their big ace equimpents will hurt you. Huntmaster and BBE are crucial against Jace.


    Junk / Deadguy Ale / The Rock / GW Maverick

    Well, here you have it. The most annoying of all matchups. You will learn to hate these decks a lot. And here is why:

    Whatever you run, whatever you do, they run it better.
    • Lightning Bolt? They have Swords to Plowshares.
    • Abrupt Decay or Maelstrom Pulse? They have Vindicate.
    • Creatures? They have Hero of Bladehold and Knight of Reliquary. KotR has fallen out of favor, but it is very powerful if it can avoid Abrupt Decay.
    • Depending on the build, they have stuff like Elspeth, Knight Errant, equipment package, Bitterblossom, Lingering Souls, Hymn to Tourach, and even acceleration.
    • They have Green Sun Zenith to run a toolbox
    • Mother of Runes is still a card, and it is one of the few ways to shut down Abrupt Decay
    • They have Wasteland and a lower curve than you do, as well as mana creatures.

    It is not a fun match-up. Whatever you do, they come on the top with something more annoying.

    I group them all together because they are similar enough, run a lot of the same, and your game against them is also very similar. Obviously other decks (like Combo) have a much easier time against Maverick than they do against Deadguy, but you specifically do not. The best you can hope for is to out-aggro them, because you are certainly the beatdown. If you plan on playing the control game, you better have a good plan to make Dark Confidant survive a lot.

    Good cards against them:

    Ancient Grudge
    Obstinate Baloth
    Damnation

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Discard

    Post board, you still want to be the aggressor, but it is good to have Damnation type effects against them, to clean up their board. They will develop their board faster than you can, and that is bad.


    U/W Miracles

    We come to the last two decks, and the first one is Miracles. Miracles relies upon the Miracle mechanic to miraculously win. Ok, I am done.

    In all seriousness, Miracles is a very difficult match-up, and it would be a mistake to think it is simply Stoneblade.

    First and foremost, they run Counterbalance / Top, which, due to Abrupt Decay is not a huge problem, but it is one none-the-less. Secondly, they run a lot of removal, including a one-mana Wrath of God, Swords to Plowshares, Detention Spheres, and the like.

    Their win conditions are varied, but they either use Entreat the Angels, Jace, or Helm of Obedience / Rest in Peace / Energy Field, or all of the above.

    Good cards against them:

    Pyroblast
    Koth of the Hammer
    Ancient Grudge
    Krosan Grip

    Cards to sideboard out:

    Trim cards

    You can try to be faster, and you can try to attrition them, but you need to be prepared for their over-the-top bombs. Unlike Esper Stoneblade, their lands are more stable and more basic. Getting a Dark Confidant or a Sylvan Library early and sticking it will go a long way.


    Jund

    Then, we come to the mirror. Mirror matches are always difficult, especially for Jund where there is quite a bit of variation in the cards it runs. There are several things that will determine the result:
    • The first player to fire off the 2-for-1s, like Hymn to Tourach, Life from the Loam, Dark Confidant or Bloodbraid Elf
    • Winning mana wars, especially early Wasteland wars
    • Liliana of the Veil, especially double Diabolic Edict if possible
    • Better sideboard
    • Less pinpoint discard
    • Life management
    • Bloodbraid Elf flips

    Games will go long. Very long. Life is important in the long run. Since both of you will be in top-deck mode before long, and none of you can deal with the top-deck, all you can do is have less dead cards, aka discard.

    I could spend the rest of my life describing how to beat Jund with Jund, and still not be useful to anyone, so I won't. Someone is mad enough to put Lingering Souls in Legacy Jund too, and that is a pretty funky thing to do, but given that you usually want to be the aggressor, and Lingering Souls is good but not too fast, I am not sure that's a good idea. You sure will win grindy match-ups, like the last two decks I described.

    Good cards against them:

    Obstinate Baloth
    Equipment

    Cards to sideboard out:

    1-mana Discard

    You have to manage you BBEs carefully. If they have nothing, do not just cast one on an empty board. You can afford to have it flip a Liliana if you already have one, but if they have nothing, and you flip Abrupt Decay or discard, it's a bad deal.

    Just take it easy, do not keep do-nothing hands, and judiciously kill their Dark Confidants and, to a lesser extent, Deathrite Shaman.


    Chapter 8: Decklists

    In this section, I will post my decklist. Yes, mine. Generally, I try to play the optimal decklist as much as the next guy, but I also like to play with certain cards I find cool. Also, keep in mind that you can tailor the deck to your strengths, your metagame, and that goes doubly for your sideboard.

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Bloodbraid Elf
    3 Tarmogoyf
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    4 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Wasteland
    3 Bayou
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Badlands
    1 Forest
    2 Swamp

    3 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Golgari Charm
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    1 Jund Charm
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Koth of the Hammer
    1 Krosan Grip
    2 Hymn to Tourach


    Chapter 9: The future of Jund

    This is not a section that I intend to write a lot, and I plan on updating it with new spoilers from the new set, or new ideas or combinations that have not been tested.

    However, since 2 of the 3 guilds have already been spoiled, only Gruul remains in Gatecrash, and so far, it doesn't seem to be too exciting.

    I tried hard to think of a way Domri Rade can be played, and I have failed. He seems almost good enough in a deck with a lot of creatures, and if the format switches to that, he could be fairly good late game as removal (have a Tarmogoyf kill something, then attack?). But until that happens, he is not really anything to write home about.

    Finally, Zuhair (zulander) will add a bunch of stuff as well, which I intend to put in the correct sections in this post.
    Last edited by razvan; 11-25-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    For all the jund tinkerers, I have a few nagging questions:

    Has anyone tried running Cabal Therapy in combination with persist/undying dudes like Strangleroot, Finks or Geralf's?

    Has anyone tried a burn-heavy build that runs more burn in the place of discard? I have a nagging dislike for discard that mainly centers around nightmares of top-decking it on turn thirteen or fourteen. I think Searing Blaze has to be one of the top ten juiciest cards ever printed and in neo-Jund I see a deck that loves its 2-for-1s.

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Bloodbraid Elf
    2 Grim Lavamancer

    3 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Searing Blaze
    4 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Sylvan Library

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    3 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    2 Taiga

    Granted, this list will be much worse against combo, but I don't really care because historically I've done pretty well playing decks that don't give a fuck about combo. But then again, if I continue to not give a fuck about combo, the OG Legacy Jund deck is probably a lot better than any list of this can ever be. But Bloodbraid is just too damn cool to not play around with.

  4. #4

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonius View Post
    For all the jund tinkerers, I have a few nagging questions:

    Has anyone tried running Cabal Therapy in combination with persist/undying dudes like Strangleroot, Finks or Geralf's?

    Has anyone tried a burn-heavy build that runs more burn in the place of discard? I have a nagging dislike for discard that mainly centers around nightmares of top-decking it on turn thirteen or fourteen. I think Searing Blaze has to be one of the top ten juiciest cards ever printed and in Jund I see a deck that loves its 2-for-1s.

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Bloodbraid Elf
    2 Grim Lavamancer

    3 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Searing Blaze
    4 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Sylvan Library

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland
    3 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    1 Forest
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    2 Taiga

    Granted, this list will be much worse against combo, but I don't really care because historically I've done pretty well playing decks that don't give a fuck about combo. But then again, if I continue to not give a fuck about combo, the OG Legacy Jund deck is probably a lot better than any list of this can ever be. But Bloodbraid is just too damn cool to not play around with.

    Please don't trust my comment 100% as I didn't test the list yet. I've always played "control-ish" decks as far as I remember, and even if red can "control" the board a bit, it doesn't control all you would like to control and I just find discard better than burns here, but as said on the previous thread, Jund is a list you can/have to adapt for the meta you're playing in.

    About your/THE lists I've seen until here, isn't wasteland a big deal mana-wise? do you always have the mana you need? I know the Shaman helps quite a lot, but still I'm afraid that I might not be able to cast what I want when I want it.

    Anyway I'll test the list tomorrow and I'll come back with some comments on it (I'll test a version with 2-3 manlands)


    Congratz on the DTB achievement!

  5. #5
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    So how much impact have you found baloth to have? Seems good against other discard decks
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  6. #6
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Thanks for the primer! I can't wait to play this deck at a tournament, as a long time Mav player it's great to see aggro having a strong representative in Legacy. My first version that I going to start testing is this:

    Lands-23-
    Wasteland X4
    Bloodstained Mire X4
    Wooded Foothills X2
    Verdant Catacombs X2
    Badlands X3
    Bayou X3
    Taiga X2
    Swamp X1
    Mountain X1
    Forest X1

    Creatures-18-
    Dark Confidant X4
    Tarmogoyf X4
    Bloodbraid Elf X4
    Deathrite Shaman X4
    Grim Lavamancer X2

    Spells-15-
    Abrupt Decay X4
    Lightning Bolt X4
    Thoughtseize X4
    Hymn to Tourach X3

    Planewalkers-3-
    Liliana of the Veil x3

    Enchantmen-1-
    Sylvan Library X1

    Sideboard-15-
    Extirpate X3
    Choke X3
    Engineered Plague X3
    Pyroblast X3
    Umezawa's Jitte X2
    Hymn to Tourach X1

    I want to try out choke vs the blue control decks. I think cascading into it may be the nail in the coffin. I feel like the deck needs extirpate to put combo decks away and goblins and elves scares me enough to run e plague. I've only gold fished this so definitely room for improvement/development. In my limited testing it seems like 18 creatures is a nice number. The deck plays small ball with goyfs and bolts and puts out a more aggressive clock than Mav did though it doesn't seem to have the staying power of KOTR decks. Anyway, great primer, great deck, good for legacy and aggro, there is a new sheriff in town!
    cheers
    defector

  7. #7

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Oh, and I forgot in the first post:

    you didn't mention the funniest show and tell hate of all time, Confusion in the Ranks. JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA.

  8. #8
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    I think Scavenging Ooze belongs in the main.
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  9. #9
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Thanks all :)

    As for the questions one by one:

    AnTONYus :P

    I tried heavy burn, including running the Punishing Fire strategy. It definitely helps if you are facing an aggro or control heavy meta. Unfortunately, it does not speed you up that much, Punishing Fire is slow. I have tested Searing Blaze (and even tribal flames with a random dual added). Searing Blaze was fairly sweet against stuff like Maverick, and this was before Shaman is everywhere. Not to mention it's ANOTHER weapon against BUG and RUG. So yes, I think I will have to retest this.

    I did not test Cabal Therapy and persist/undying, I didn't even think of it. I will try testing it and put it in the primer. Strangleroot Geist alone is something that would be quite fun to try, I think it might be faster than Geralf's Messenger, although the latter helps by being black and not green, and works better with Liliana. It is better than Lingering Souls anyway in Jund.

    As for combo, yes, I know, sometimes you just have to make sure you can win every non-combo match-up and just try to race combo. Actually, I think that having Cabal Therapy / Undying creatures (Finks might be too slow and only good vs. burn/goblins), might help things tremendously. Yes, it sucks on turn 20, but only having 4 and not 7... could be great.

    I am speechless by confusing in the ranks. Absolutely speechless.

    SaintS: Wasteland is crucial, and your mana sometimes can stumble, but so can anyone's. It is far better than most 3 color decks, because you play a lot of it. Zulander also suggested manlands, so that might be something I want to look into, but I don't think they help your clock at all, and the match-ups where they would help, those decks have wastelands (unless it's Miracles).

    Treetop villages are probably the best, but they don't make black or red and are non-basic. Raging Ravines might be worth trying, but they are expensive to run.

    lyracian: I love Baloth in any format it is legal. With the advent of BUG and Jund and the resurgence of discard and Liliana everywhere, they are very good. Otherwise, their slot could be filled by Kitchen Finks, although I don't think they perform as well. I was never sorry to have 3 in my SB, and never wished them to be anything else.

    defector: I do not like Extirpate as much as Surgical Extraction. It requires you to keep a mana open, instead of spending it all every turn and try to race them. It's fine to play control against Combo, but without a clock, it is a losing proposition.

    Also, a question for you and other Jund players: Jitte. Tell me more! Is it really that great?

    Zulander, thanks for the PM. I will put up the changes, and you can also answer the question above, since you seem to like Jitte :).

    I will add the Lingering Souls/Persist idea/Burn idea/Manlands to the primer soon.

  10. #10
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Don't care about this deck, but wow this is an amazing primer. Well done!
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    Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.
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  11. #11

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by razvan View Post
    Thanks all :)

    As for the questions one by one:

    AnTONYus :P

    I tried heavy burn, including running the Punishing Fire strategy. It definitely helps if you are facing an aggro or control heavy meta. Unfortunately, it does not speed you up that much, Punishing Fire is slow. I have tested Searing Blaze (and even tribal flames with a random dual added). Searing Blaze was fairly sweet against stuff like Maverick, and this was before Shaman is everywhere. Not to mention it's ANOTHER weapon against BUG and RUG. So yes, I think I will have to retest this.

    I did not test Cabal Therapy and persist/undying, I didn't even think of it. I will try testing it and put it in the primer. Strangleroot Geist alone is something that would be quite fun to try, I think it might be faster than Geralf's Messenger, although the latter helps by being black and not green, and works better with Liliana. It is better than Lingering Souls anyway in Jund.

    As for combo, yes, I know, sometimes you just have to make sure you can win every non-combo match-up and just try to race combo. Actually, I think that having Cabal Therapy / Undying creatures (Finks might be too slow and only good vs. burn/goblins), might help things tremendously. Yes, it sucks on turn 20, but only having 4 and not 7... could be great.

    I am speechless by confusing in the ranks. Absolutely speechless.

    SaintS: Wasteland is crucial, and your mana sometimes can stumble, but so can anyone's. It is far better than most 3 color decks, because you play a lot of it. Zulander also suggested manlands, so that might be something I want to look into, but I don't think they help your clock at all, and the match-ups where they would help, those decks have wastelands (unless it's Miracles).

    Treetop villages are probably the best, but they don't make black or red and are non-basic. Raging Ravines might be worth trying, but they are expensive to run.

    lyracian: I love Baloth in any format it is legal. With the advent of BUG and Jund and the resurgence of discard and Liliana everywhere, they are very good. Otherwise, their slot could be filled by Kitchen Finks, although I don't think they perform as well. I was never sorry to have 3 in my SB, and never wished them to be anything else.

    defector: I do not like Extirpate as much as Surgical Extraction. It requires you to keep a mana open, instead of spending it all every turn and try to race them. It's fine to play control against Combo, but without a clock, it is a losing proposition.

    Also, a question for you and other Jund players: Jitte. Tell me more! Is it really that great?

    Zulander, thanks for the PM. I will put up the changes, and you can also answer the question above, since you seem to like Jitte :).

    I will add the Lingering Souls/Persist idea/Burn idea/Manlands to the primer soon.
    Thanks for your answer. The version I'm going to test in less than an hour is a version with jite and manland MD, and I'll also try 4 wasteland and 2 jittes MD. I'll see the one i prefere.

    Also, i forgot to comment but I like the idea of the cabal therapy. I will try it when i have a bit more of time.

  12. #12
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    @Razvan regarding the Surgical vs Extirpate debate. I don't think there is a correct answer and your point about leaving mana up is valid. I think if TES/Dredge are the combo decks of choice then Surgical is probably the way to go and if the meta shifts towards a High Tide/SnT driven format than Extirpate becomes better. I think High Tide is currently the best combo deck in legacy, but the candles kind of keep it under wraps. I'm going to play around with both as they are both great version of the same card. I'm leaning towards extirpate because the discard strategy seems to let you play it proactively instead of having to rely on it defensively. If dredge starts to rise and the speed of the format changes than in go the surgicals.

  13. #13

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    @Razvan:

    I wouldn't play Punishing Fires, either. Way too mana inefficient for what you want to do, IMO. Chain Lightning is way better. Did you try playing an 8 bolt configuration like that? Have you gone as deep as hell's thunders or hellsparks? And yeah, Geist is definitely good. He plays really well with mass removal and could enable you to even play perish out of the board for the mirrors and elf matches. It's just hard to get over the size deficit he has with goyf. Squeezing him into a list with all the proven, conventional good stuff is difficult. Now, if you want to go hella deep and play more of a fast beatdown game with haste creatures and such, the aforementioned hell's thunders and hellsparks play really well with therapy. Maybe something like this?

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Tarmogoyf
    2 Hellspark Elemental
    4 Strangleroot Geist
    1 Hell's Thunder
    3 Bloodbraid Elf

    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Thoughtseize

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Searing Blaze
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Sylvan Library

    4 Wasteland
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wooded Foothills
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    2 Taiga
    2 Forest
    1 Mountain
    1 Swamp

    ehhh that's probably a little too goofy to be competitive but as long as we're just throwing lists around, why not?

  14. #14
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    I wouldn't play Hell's Thunder and the like. Having just single-use direct damage that doesn't double as removal isn't really what Jund would need (I would think).

    I definitely would like to put the 7 card package of 4 Geist, 3 Therapy, and find place for the 4th Therapy. Might not be good, but who knows... this way you can be the aggressor and still have backup. Maybe something like this:

    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Strangleroot Geist
    3 Huntmaster of the Fells / Bloodbraid Elf
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Sylvan Library

    24 Land

    For searing Blaze, maybe cut the Life from the Loam and Scavenging Ooze. This way it's about as streamlined as possible?

  15. #15
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    This is the most detailed primer I've ever read. Great job razvan.

    I've found great success running 4x Liliana. As you mentioned, unanswered T1 Thoughtseize/IoK, T2 Hymn, T3 Liliana is a good reason for your opponent to fold up their hand.

    Also, running 4x Liliana wonderfully improves the chances of cascading off of BBE, which is another reason for your opponent to ragequit. The only thing I hate cascading into is Sylvan Library; such a waste, though Library is so awesome and necessary for this deck.

    Legacy Jund works so well against 60% or more of the field that I've found it unnecessary to run Wastelands, not to mention they slow you down to get to a BBE. This deck is so mana hungry that Wasteland can impede your T1-T4 strategy. I saw a few lists that run Destructive Flow. Anyone have a lot of experience playing that way? I can see it being great in non-dual-heavy deck and plunked down on T2 after a T1 DrShaman, but is it worth it?
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  16. #16
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    If you want a detailed primer, you should head over the Rock thread :P

    Great job, Razvan. It was a good read for sure.

    So, I've been pushing Punishing Fires, and it looks like the list that did well tonight had it. It makes sense with all the tokens running around lately.

    RE: Flow, I think it's slow. A 3-mana do nothing for a while seems blah. You really have to build your deck around it, and cascading into it seems like garbage. I'm sure it could be a thing, but you'd really have to build around it.

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  17. #17
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    I haven't read all the primers in here, yet, but agree with the people... This is an amazing primer!
    By coincedence I discovered, that I had all the non-land cards for the deck, traded some excess cards for Badlands, Bayous and the Taigas, and I got to play two rounds at a 31 person tournament yesterday (Had to go to a birthday, but I was sad to drop from the tournament).

    Round 1, I met ANT, what a bummer!! He duressed me, took my Thoughtseize, and made 14 goblins in the first game.
    Game 2, I opened with a Thoughtseize, took his Duress, but he drew another, which he used to take my Duress, 2 turns go by, and he kills me..

    Round 2, I met a Nic Fit deck, with a blue splash for Jace, TMS. And I have to say, the way I threw that deck of the table... on 4 turns, I cast 3x Bloodbraid Elves, first I casceded into a Hymn To Tourach, then a Lightning Bolt and finally I cascaded into a Dark Confidant - Needless to say, I owned that game. For sportsmanship reasons I gave him the victory though :)

    Now, what I really love about this deck is how you play it. I've been playing Magic for almost to years now and while I have a pretty cool cardpool, with a lot of blue cards (Blue almost seems to be a necessity to play, these days), I always felt more happy and relaxed, when playing non-blue decks.

    When I threw together this deck, and tested it a few times before the aforementioned tournament, I just got that feeling of sitting with a deck (Obviously) and feel the joy that comes, when you are happy, playing Magic.. :)

    Now, that's a lot of what you could call bullshit, BUT:
    I wanna play this deck, get good at playing it, and hopefully, make a comment or 2, that you can benefit from :)

    BTW: Have any of you, concidered Chains of Mephistopheles? ;)

  18. #18

    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Great primer. Well done!

    I've been reading the old thread and following a bit on this new thread, and I just don't understand the knock on Punishing Fires. If anything, it belongs in this deck. Punishing Fires is a natural problem for U-control decks. It's also a great removal for today's metagame. I cannot see Searing Blaze as a better card at all.

    Maybe I'm playing the deck differently than you guys, because there is no way this deck is a sligh-ish deck. It's definitely more of a midrange Rock type deck. In this way, Punishing Fires works far better than Searing Blaze or Chain Lightning. Searing Blaze is certainly terrible in decks that play little to no creatures like UW Miracle. It is also more costly as it requires RR. Compared with cards like Chain Lightning, it is far better as red decks become more prevalent. I certainly would not want UWr Miracle, Tempo Thresh, Jund mirror, or Storm Combo to shoot my Chain Lightning back at my creatures. Decks that do not run Punishing Fires also tend to run Grim Lavamancers. This just doesn't seem great. More 1/1's that use graveyard? You are just opening yourself up to graveyard hate/large creature beat downs and running out of food for Deathrite Shaman.

    I'm currently running a Punishing Fires list based off of a list posted in the old thread. I've found that Punishing Fires has add stability, consistency and aggressiveness to this deck. I've also tried Pat Cox's list but hated it. I felt the deck ran out of gas too quickly, and was generally not aggressive enough. Grim Lavamancer does not hurt more than Scavenging Ooze and Punishing Fires.

    To those opposed to Punishing Fires, please explain why you hate it with some examples to support this. All I've heard is that it is slow, but fail to see in what way is it slow. For 2 mana, it's expensive for 2 damage, but it comes back casting fear in the eyes of decks that run too many weenies. Punishing Fires also improves the mirror match up as well as match ups against enemy decks that run Deathrite Shaman. Arguably, Grim Lavamancer does the same thing, but Grim Lavamancer has sommoning sickness and is vulnerable to Swords to Plowshare, effectively making it far slower than Punishing Fires. Grim Lavamancer is also not great in multiples and dies to your usual sweepers like Pernicious Deed, Rough/Tumble, Golgari Charm, Plague on Wizards/Humans, Terminus, etc. In this current metagame, Punishing Fires is just superior to Grim Lavamancer and have more value than Chain Lightning.

    I'm also in strong opposition to Cabal Therapy in the main. You just look like a toolbag when you have to open with that first round, first game. Missing a crucial discard spell there is just not optimal. I propose a Duress/Thoughtseize Split. Duress because Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt and Punishing Fires will take care of any small critter that waltzes in. Inquisition seems redundant here.

    For reference, my current list looks like this:

    1x SDT
    1x Sylvan Library

    4x Deathrite Shaman
    4x Tarmogoyf
    4x Dark Confidant
    2x Scavenging Ooze
    3x Bloodbraid Elf

    3x Liliana of the Veil

    3x Hymn to Tourach
    2x Thoughtseize
    2x Duress

    3x Abrupt Decay
    3x Lightning Bolt
    3x Punishing Fires

    2x Wooded Foothills
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    4x Verdant Catacombs
    3x Bayou
    2x Badlands
    1x Taiga
    1x Mountain
    1x Swamp
    1x Forest
    3x Grove of the Burnwillows

  19. #19
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Concerning the Rock/GWB/Dark Horizons matchup, I suppose an important question should be asked; why play this instead of Rock? Aside from "Well, because I want to", if the Rock can do everything Jund can do, but better, why play Jund?

  20. #20
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    Re: [DTB] Jund

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    If you want a detailed primer, you should head over the Rock thread :P
    Aw shush. I love Rock with all my heart. It's what I've been jamming the most other than BUG (before BUG got popular). I just like good primers. And yes Matt, yours is awesome.

    I'm going to try the PFire route. I've been in love with that card since Punishing Maverick.
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