[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Hopo]

I'm trying to get a grasp of this archetype as it seems to be both powerful and fun to play.
I read the last 10+ pages and the opening post but didn't find what I was looking for: discussion on Into the North vs. Sylvan Scrying. I seem to be tutoring Urborg and Stage quite often which makes Into the North look quite clumsy. Any wise words on the topic?

[jdmdave]

It's actually map vs into and library vs scrying in terms of split. The rest of the deck is basically 53/60 locked in.

[DNSolver]

Wise words: Into the North is bad.

+ gets Depths directly into play
- exposes Dark Depths to Wasteland immediately
- have to play snow-covered basics, this is almost always a dead giveaway of your deck if you swamp -> thoughtseize or swamp -> duress while normally you could still be playing a few things
- doesn't really do anything if you already have a depths

The last point is huge. Playing Into the North will actually *hurt* consistency since it is *only* extra copies of Dark Depths most of the time. Better to have any land search be able to grab Stage, Depths, Ghost Quarter, Steppe, and occaisionally Bog or sideboard Dryad Arbor if you do that.

So...

Play Map.

[malekith]

Hello boys, I'm playing now a Turbo Depths version including Living Wish so, I have very limited space for Sideboard. My previous tournament was not very bad, beating Red Burn and almost wining ( but not) against Elves. there was a UW control (a kind of Omnitell) that was really hard for me, and lost 2-0.
Now preparing a new tournament in same local shop, my question is: what more can I do sideboarding against UW Control, apart of placing a neddle on Jace the Mindsculptor? or perhaps Surgical the FOW or Brainstorm this time (and not the Flooded Strand, how I did) Thank you.

[jdmdave]

First of all cut living wish, card is bad.

Second, if you absolutely do not want to lose to UW control, play this in the board.

* 1 Eye of Ugin
* 1 Cabal Coffers
* 1 Emrakul of your choice

Watch them weep

[DNSolver]

The post above by malekith made no sense. I think it could be a troll comment.

If it isn't, I have to evaluate it a bit more. I don't really understand "UW Control omnitell" or whatever that is supposed to be. I suspect it contains Show and Tell -> Omniscience though, so a slow win like the Eye of Ugin plan won't work.

[caseyc]

Hello boys, I'm playing now a Turbo Depths version including Living Wish so, I have very limited space for Sideboard. My previous tournament was not very bad, beating Red Burn and almost wining ( but not) against Elves. there was a UW control (a kind of Omnitell) that was really hard for me, and lost 2-0.
Now preparing a new tournament in same local shop, my question is: what more can I do sideboarding against UW Control, apart of placing a neddle on Jace the Mindsculptor? or perhaps Surgical the FOW or Brainstorm this time (and not the Flooded Strand, how I did) Thank you.

Sylvan Safekeeper is great against UW Control / Miracles--as well as other decks with targeted removal for ML. I also run a 3x Rite of Consumption, ,1x Boseiju plan for that matchup (and others, minus Boseiju) that gives me inevitability. However, the limited space in your SB due to Living Wish probably won't permit that. I can't judge the LW approach too much as I haven't tried it, but it doesn't seem necessary and certainly takes up a lot of SB space.

[malekith]

Sorry my mistake. I commit an error mentioning Omnitell. It was because my rival told me he had played Omnitell for a long time evolving to Miracles first and after to the current deck. But it is true, sorry, that his current UW Control has a lot of Miracles but nothing of Omnitell.

[jdmdave]

Registered for GP Kyoto and ready to play this in the Legacy seat. DNSolver, are we basically set on the 75 at this point, or do you think there is room for more tinkering? I've been pretty happy with the 3 sylvan scrying/1 sylvan library split main.

As for the spheres, I feel like I haven't been using them that much online except for Storm/Aluren.

[DNSolver]

I have been pretty much set on my same 75, but I think that putting a Dryad Arbor in would be a good idea. I've been mostly playing unfair decks like Reanimator, TinFins, and Storm recently for no reason other than I like to play decks I can't IRL.

Big discussion point on Mindbreak Trap vs Sphere, not sure if there is a right answer. Here is a rant:


RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT

1) Most storm players are bringing in bounce spells (hits hate permanents *and* Marit Lage)
2) Most storm players are leaving in discard spells.
So competent Storm players will have answers to Trap, Sphere/Chalice, and Marit Lage post-board.

If they are leaving in discard, perhaps Trap isn't as good because they will see it coming (even if they don't therapy it correctly right away).

One school of thought is that if Storm is bringing in bounce spells for Marit Lage and permanents, it's fine to play hate permanents because then if they find a bounce spell, they are going to be in a good spot anyway, and even if they find one bounce spell, they might not be able to deal with Lage and the permanent.

The other school of thought is that if Storm is bringing in bounce spells for Marit Lage and permanents, don't bring in permanents because they will have an answer for it anyway. You have to dodge them ever keeping a bounce spell anyway, because if they kill Lage they will have tons of time to kill you.

Another school of thought is that you both have discard spells, so you can take their discard or their bounce, and they can take Trap or permanent-based hate before you cast it. Additionally, they have a faster combo, so it's entirely possible they can kill you on turn 1 or 2 without you being able to do anything about it (discard into turn 2 combo, turn 1 combo on the play (need Trap))...

RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT OVER!!!!!

So this issue is very complicated.

[caseyc]

I currently play a split of 2x Into the North and 1x Expedition Map. I see the reasons for just using Map, but ITN adds some explosiveness game 1, and just fits the theme of the deck so nicely... :-)

I still think bringing lots of dedicated Storm hate in the paper meta is not necessary. Even without Spheres and Traps, our matchup is decent against Storm. And you just don't see that many Storm players in the paper meta in my experience.

Finally, I have a question. I often am boarding out my 2x Sylvan Safekeepers...so I got thinking that maybe I should replace them in the main with some of my more often boarded in cards (other than Ground Seal which preys on SB hate) such as Abrupt Decay and/or Sylvan Library. What do you all think about Safekeeper hanging out in the SB game 1? He is just so often a dead card in matchups, I'd rather have something useful. I like the idea of replacing them in the main with Sylvan Libraries because those are great anti-STP as well.

[jdmdave]

Another 5-0 with the stocklist. Looks like DNsolver and I are having a bit of a trophy race.

[Kagemusha]

How is ground seal working for those trying? Came across the card Lifeforce in my brother’s collection recently and was thinking could be good way to hold up counter for diabolic edict and Surgical? Or is that asking too much to have double green up with combo? Also what about bitterblossom against edict decks - has anyone tested?

[adrieng]

I think it is time to reconsider lost legacy and chalice for the miracle matchup now that once resolved we don't fear terminus so much.
Here is the current list I am playing. Also notice that I am testing nights whisper it seems ok so far, and leyline for sideboard
I was fed up losing against B/R reanimator surgical is not good enough hate.
The two random lotus petal gives an extra speed while not having the problem of hands with multiple acceleration/do nothing hands.
The sideboard maze of ith comes inot the maverick/deathAndTaxes/eldrazi stompy/infect matchup.
Khalni garden gives value either with cabal or buy you time to chumpblock/ protect from edict.
The ratchet bomb comes against needle/delver/blood moon good to have a two off.




// 60 Maindeck
// 9 Artifact
4 Pithing Needle
2 Lotus Petal
3 Expedition Map

// 4 Creature
4 Vampire Hexmage

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 24 Land
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Khalni Garden
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Maze of Ith

// 15 Sorcery
4 Night's whisper
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Sylvan Scrying
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Toxic Deluge


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb

// 7 Enchantment
SB: 3 Dread of Night
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 2 Land
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Maze of Ith

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Lost Legacy

[caseyc]

How is ground seal working for those trying? Came across the card Lifeforce in my brother’s collection recently and was thinking could be good way to hold up counter for diabolic edict and Surgical? Or is that asking too much to have double green up with combo? Also what about bitterblossom against edict decks - has anyone tested?

If you look back a few pages, you'll see more discussion of Ground Seal. I really like Ground Seal. It's been in my SB for over 6 months now. I've gone up to 2x but I think that's a bit much. Here is the thing-- getting Edicted isn't usually that bad unless it is followed up by a Surgical on Depths. Also, we have lots of discard to strip Edict. I tried the whole Mishra's Factory/Dryad Arbor approach and it was fine, but I don't think it's necessary. I have not tried Bitterblossom, seems like it could be alright. I'd rather try to discard their Edicts, and use versatile SB cards that blank Surgical. Ground Seal is great and hits lots of other stuff, and currently I am trying out Murderous Cut and have found it pretty good (the Delve cost blanks Surgical). Lifeforce seems wayyy too narrow and mana intensive for my liking.

[malekith]

I think it is time to reconsider lost legacy and chalice for the miracle matchup
[/CARDS]

Perhaps Lost Legacy can be a good preventive action to avoid Humility that dissable ML

[jdmdave]

Why are you guys trying to reinvent the wheel when the stocklist is putting up by far the most results?

[filln]

Why are you guys trying to reinvent the wheel when the stocklist is putting up by far the most results?

Not sure this is a productive view to take. We should definitely be fostering discussion and experimentation here, especially if players are trying different cards in actual gameplay and reporting results. There's still room for this deck to grow.

[Negator77']

Why are you guys trying to reinvent the wheel when the stocklist is putting up by far the most results?

Well... because this deck is far from perfect. Besides, even if it is the best possible version, nothing stays that way for long in an always (even if slowly) shifting meta. To think that a deck that makes up around 2% of the meta shouldn't be worked on in an attempt to improve it or find a better version is silly in my opinion. I know I personally tried a ton of options over the past couple of years before taking a break for most of the past few months and always preferred a different version to the stock list. EE7 was won by a Living Wish version, which is a card many people here including me dislike. A "stock" list has been around for a while, but every now and then something new becomes stock (like say Safekeeper this past year) and makes the deck more resilient or better positioned in the current meta. That never comes to light if players aren't trying different cards or versions of the deck.

[Kagemusha]

Went 3-2 at 1k today:

R1 Burn (0-2)
R2 Esper Leovold (1-2)
R3 Jeskai Stoneblade (2-0)
R4 UW MythRealized Landstill (2-0)
R5 Grixis Midrange (2-1)


1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Crop Rotation
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Into the North
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Beast Within
4 Lotus Petal
2 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Beast Within
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Krosan Grip
1 Mirage Mirror
2 Ground Seal
1 Steely Resolve
3 Sylvan Library
1 Karakas

Though luck starting out with 2 losses, but was fun jamming some 20/20s today.

Cards I liked: ground seal, beast within (1 color catch all, also makes a creature instant speed in face of edict)

Cards that sucked: bontu’s , mirage mirror. I think I’m cutting sweepers completely. Also into the north should just be expo map - why play it when sylvan scry and map act as demonic tutor in our shell.

Cards I miss / want to test: Not of this world (lots of STPS running around), surgical extraction - hard to know how many to split / run with ground seal; I really want to test a single ancient tomb as I had a few of those “ would have won had I had more mana” moments - with crop for tomb can get 2 mana and still have urborg out; I dunno maybe we don’t want tomb but I wanna test and see.

Also 2 ghost quarter felt great in main as I was siding another in almost every game.