[Deck] Turbo Depths

[PeterSouth]

Hey guys, I just bought into budget BG version on MTGO after selling some of my paper cards and having a ton of fun playing in the free area. Through all the matches so far with variations of main and sideboard it's been fun seeing the pros and cons of each card and why certain cards are in the deck (like steppe which I thought was horrible, but lost several matches already because I didn't have it to push through blockers.) I have been making a ton of mistakes, but it seems the deck is really resilient/forgiving in spite of that and I have a new appreciation for all the fast mana which I didn't believe would be good at first.

I have watched all the gameplay videos available and read all the forum, but I was looking for something similar to the written matchup hints that Thraben University has like this http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=17 I just got finished playing against Dredge for the first time and had no idea what the hell to do, so some base understanding and hints would be great. Like, I dunno if my discard spells were helping them and if my tabernacle was actually doing anything useful. So far, the matchups I am not sure if I am playing right and sideboard choices are Dredge, Storm, Doomsday, Burn, Standstill, UW control. If there are no similar guides available maybe I will start one on the web and try to keep it updated with community questions, answers, and recommendations.

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Along with recent conversation - odd cards I have been testing or plan to test in main or sideboard: Deathrite Shaman, birds of paradise, tabernacle, chaos warp, choke, sorcerous spyglass, sea gate wreckage, phyrexian revoker, inquisition of kozilek, eladamri's vineyard, magus of the vineyard

[filln]

Went 3-2 at 1k today

Instead of Bontu's, have you tried Toxic Deluge? So far it's my preferred sweeper since it's easier to cast and doesn't lock you out of land next turn. Beast Within is pretty interesting, especially as an anti-Edict effect though it's pretty expensive in that particular case. I'm using Beast Within in a RG Moon Depths brew I'm working on and have been pleased with its flexibility. How has Steely Resolve been? I picked up a copy a while back but haven't tested it out yet due to the nonbo with Sejiri Steppe.

[filln]

Hey guys, I just bought into budget BG version on MTGO

Welcome to the deck! What list are you running? Perhaps we can help out with sideboard options if you let us know what you're working with so far.

[Kagemusha]

Instead of Bontu's, have you tried Toxic Deluge? So far it's my preferred sweeper since it's easier to cast and doesn't lock you out of land next turn. Beast Within is pretty interesting, especially as an anti-Edict effect though it's pretty expensive in that particular case. I'm using Beast Within in a RG Moon Depths brew I'm working on and have been pleased with its flexibility. How has Steely Resolve been? I picked up a copy a while back but haven't tested it out yet due to the nonbo with Sejiri Steppe.

Yeah I use to play toxic, but tried bontu as it kills all without having to trade off a bunch of life to kill things like goyf or eldrazi, I may go back to 1 or 2 toxic.

Beast within is gonna be 1 main 1 side for me for awhile. Here’s the thing Abrupt decay requires you to have 2 colors up, which can be tricky for things like early bloodmoons and such. Beast within requires you to hit 1 green source under things like blood moon or whatever and if you’re casting things that aren’t making a 20/20, (such as song of dryad, krosan grip, Abrupt Decay) you’re probably in for the long game and CMC Vs. Amount of colors required to cast has been more relevant in my opinion. I also like the idea that beast within can kill Jace or humility or it’s a stone rain cause it hits lands, and sure you give them a clock but let’s get real - a vanilla 3/3 is the least of our one swing win worries.

As for steely resolve, It’s really only good agains white decks; or maybe if submerge picks up again; I think I’ll cut it too as the x3 sylvan library Vs swords decks really shined for me today - I thing I understand now why all of DNSolver’s SB basically start with “x3 sylvan Library”

I also wanted to fit 1 crucible in the side as it’s nice it have against the real Lands deck and other wastelands etc but I cut it because if ground seal thinking it was a nonbo, but I found out later that you can play lands with crucible through a ground seal.

[PeterSouth]

Welcome to the deck! What list are you running? Perhaps we can help out with sideboard options if you let us know what you're working with so far.

Thx Filln, here's what I got so far:

4x bayou
4x dark depths
4x llanowar wastes
4x thespian's stage
4x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3x mana confluence
1x ghost quarter

4x lotus petal
4x inquisition of kozilek
4x thoughtseize
4x crop rotation
4x expedition map
4x pithing needle
4x vampire hexmage
4x sylvan scrying
4x elvish spirit guide

SB:

2x chaos warp
2x choke
1x sylvan library
4x abrupt decay
1x bojuka bog
1x sejiri steppe
1x tabernacle at pendrell vale
3x sphere of resistance

My philosophy is stock list and GM1 should be fastest most consistent Lage without any post-lage protection. Then with the remaining slots have pre-Lage protection from most-common enemies to make Lage - namely wasteland and Blood Moon / Magus Moon. The first page of primer says inquisition is favored over duress and in my limited understanding I would have to agree (so surprised current list running duress over them). I want my first turn discard to take out the moon effects as that is the absolute worst card that they could play (I don't think any in-color answer to moons are decent enough given they require open land or possible multiple fast mana.) I think inquistion also better in the D&T matchup and any deck's standard would be "can I beat red deck wins?". I played RDW a couple times and was pretty scared each time and did not feel any better during sideboard. I think in that matchup getting rid of the 1st turn creatures is real impt and duress not help that. With the prevalence of wasteland and deathrite I think max pithing needle is best especially cause no color requirement and gives card advantage (also kinda digging the 1st turn fetchland needle). I've been playing for like 20+ years and never used fetchlands, so I wasn't ready to take the dive there either - I also don't like running basics in multicolor decks (maybe this why dnsolver build runs duress instead and not worry about moons as much). I'm horrible at stack gameplay and I dunno if opponents sneak in things against you with this deck when you go to fetch. I think the usual includes of bojuka bog and sejiri steppe should be sideboard - like I was watch Hoogland's recent videos and he kept drawing steppes each game and it was kinda lame. Mana screw is like my biggest reason to ever quit magic. Same with safekeeper - like if you are playing burn then that's a dead card right - but after finding out playing D&T then should come in. I read pages back about how great e-map is and I think that should be 4 of even with % of matches you get 2 in your starter hand. It's been great getting force-of-willed and I think many hands over time will come up with only urborg and stage/depths for lands where you may mulligan if had scrying vs. map. instead. In the sideboard, chaos warp worked good couple times so far vs. moon decks and so did choke. Tabernacle been cool vs. stuff like nic-fit, burn, etc... Sphere felt amazing vs. couple games with storm.

[DNSolver]

Sideboard Steppe is insane. It belongs in the maindeck, otherwise your G1 win percentage is going to go to sub 50%. I would list the uses of Sejiri Steppe, but I would run out of room. Naturally drawing Steppe is actually amazing in the right matchups (namely, Delver and 4color). As far as mana screw - if you are getting mana screwed, you are doing it wrong.

Safekeeper is fine against Burn. It blocks. The matchups is such a bye that you are better off taking out Needles to fit in the 4 Decays you want for Ensnaring Bridge.

Inquisition can't take Force of Will, which is almost more played than Flickerwisp, Magus of the Moon, and Snapcaster Mage combined. Duress is better IMO, expecially against Sneak and Show where Duress can take either Sneak Attack or Show and Tell.

[jdmdave]

5-0ed offline legacy event with the stock list for a box of IMA.

* 2-0 - 4c control
* 2-1 - Angel Stompy
* 2-0 - Storm (triple sphere g2)
* 2-0 - Burn
* 2-1 - Maverick (all hail safekeeper)

[Postman]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/838629#online

apologies for the fetchlands of poverty.

5-0ed offline legacy event with the stock list for a box of IMA.

* 2-0 - 4c control
* 2-1 - Angel Stompy
* 2-0 - Storm (triple sphere g2)
* 2-0 - Burn
* 2-1 - Maverick (all hail safekeeper)

Congrats to your victory! "The stock list", is it the list you once linked to @mtggoldfish? Thx for info

[caseyc]

Well... because this deck is far from perfect. Besides, even if it is the best possible version, nothing stays that way for long in an always (even if slowly) shifting meta. To think that a deck that makes up around 2% of the meta shouldn't be worked on in an attempt to improve it or find a better version is silly in my opinion. I know I personally tried a ton of options over the past couple of years before taking a break for most of the past few months and always preferred a different version to the stock list. EE7 was won by a Living Wish version, which is a card many people here including me dislike. A "stock" list has been around for a while, but every now and then something new becomes stock (like say Safekeeper this past year) and makes the deck more resilient or better positioned in the current meta. That never comes to light if players aren't trying different cards or versions of the deck.

I tend to agree. At this point, I run a mostly stock list--with some less common SB choices because I enjoy experimenting and some of the experiments have worked out well and I kept them. However, in the past, I have tried out several different builds (including Negator's blue-splash build), and blue-heavy build that supported FoW, and a black-heavy build with Dark Rituals. Ultimately, I think the stock list is probably the best currently (because of redundancy, speed, and the softness of the meta--as well as more play to it than most opponents think)--but it's hard to know exactly how things will develop. Also, the Living Wish version is clearly viable. And even though I think the stock list is better, I have taken other versions to smaller events to experiment and have fun. Negator's build allows you to play Brainstorm, which is just a great, fun, and challenging card--and has the potential to reward smart, tight play with more decision points than the stock build. So, I think people should certainly try the stock list, and also experiment to see what they like and what they do well with.

Relatedly, I saw a list running 1x Seek the Wilds. So I may try that in practice soon. It's probably not great. But hey, worth experimenting :-)

[jdmdave]

I tend to agree. At this point, I run a mostly stock list--with some less common SB choices because I enjoy experimenting and some of the experiments have worked out well and I kept them. However, in the past, I have tried out several different builds (including Negator's blue-splash build), and blue-heavy build that supported FoW, and a black-heavy build with Dark Rituals. Ultimately, I think the stock list is probably the best currently (because of redundancy, speed, and the softness of the meta--as well as more play to it than most opponents think)--but it's hard to know exactly how things will develop. Also, the Living Wish version is clearly viable. And even though I think the stock list is better, I have taken other versions to smaller events to experiment and have fun. Negator's build allows you to play Brainstorm, which is just a great, fun, and challenging card--and has the potential to reward smart, tight play with more decision points than the stock build. So, I think people should certainly try the stock list, and also experiment to see what they like and what they do well with.

Relatedly, I saw a list running 1x Seek the Wilds. So I may try that in practice soon. It's probably not great. But hey, worth experimenting :-)

Yeah, probably didn't phrase that in the most diplomatic way. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm running an over 73% win rate in the comp. league (N>150 matches) and really don't see anything "not working," specifically when it comes to situational A or B card scenarios. My number one priority atm is to find a game 2/3 plan vs SnT that isn't just "mull to turn 2 lage and pray"

[Negator77']

Yeah, probably didn't phrase that in the most diplomatic way. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm running an over 73% win rate in the comp. league (N>150 matches) and really don't see anything "not working," specifically when it comes to situational A or B card scenarios. My number one priority atm is to find a game 2/3 plan vs SnT that isn't just "mull to turn 2 lage and pray"

Gotcha. League's have been soft to depths since.... well, they introduced them. Online players love Delver and blue in general which are ripe pickings for Depths. Think of the meta %'s of decks like delver or 4c pile online and until somewhat recently the shortage of DnT (and Lands to a lesser extent). My win rate since leagues started (including challenges) was very high with the GBu version and I'd image DNSolver (and others with a lot of experience with the deck) were very high with the BG version too.

How are you losing to SnT? Any odd scenarios, or just a mix of the normal stuff, moon and whatnot?

[jdmdave]

Typically turn 1 blood moon or fast sneak attack getting around karakas.

[DNSolver]

Discard can help against Sneak and Show. I have been running Sylvan Libraries against them too, for the purpose of digging for more discard.

Also, I just came back from one of the most amazing weeklies I've ever had. Went 4-1 beating UWR control (no Miracles), Lands, BR Reanimator, and Red Aluren. Lost to Bant Stoneblade/Knight. BR Reanimator and Aluren I won pretty convincingly as expected. All others were close and would probably have been completely hopeless if not for Sylvan Safekeeper - it won me many games tonight. It's been great, but tonight especially it was an all-star 10/10 card. Glad to have it in the maindeck.

Anyway, the amazing part was the last match of the night, the Lands matchup:

G1 - I get destroyed by early Ghost Quarter + Loam lock after I used Bojuka Bog on the first Loam.

G2 - I start out with a Map, then discard spell seeing Crop Rot x3, Gamble, Loam, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter? when opponent has Taiga and Ghost Quarter up. I am feeling pretty miserable at this point. My board is Urborg, Bayou, Depths, Needle on Wasteland, and my hand is 2nd Urborg, Steppe, Surgical, Elvish Spirit Guide? or something. I finally realize I have Surgical in my hand. I take one Crop Rot and Surgical targeting Crop Rot, to which opponent Crop Rots Taiga for fetch, fetches Forest, Crop Rots Forest for Grove (fills graveyard for Loam). Next turn I play Spirit Guide, then Safekeeper and start beating down. When opponent is at around 14 life I realize that creature beatdown is the way to go, and start searching for and playing as many lands as possible. Opponent has Gamble'd for Punishing Fire and is assembling land drops and Groves as I am sacrificing lands to protect my dudes, but eventually (through the help of 2nd Safekeeper too) I kill her through 4 damage a turn because she can't find one of her two Trackers to block... SUCH a cool game! 10/10 experience, and there is still one game left to play!

G3 - Slow start from opponent as we're both on 6 cards - she has Taiga ->Needle on Stage, Ghost Quarter, then Karakas -> Tracker (tapped out). I had kept Steppe, Stage, Library, Thoughtseize, Crop Rot, something. I drew Hexmage on turn 1, played Needle on Wasteland, drew Bayou on turn 2, and played Library. So now I'm untapping against a Tracker. Sylvan Library finds Urborg, Needle, Verdant. I pay 8 in excitement (only needed 4), slam Urborg, tap Stage for Needle on Karakas, Crop Rotate Stage for Depths, play Hexmage, make a 20/20. Opponent doesn't have enough mana to Gamble for Krosan Grip to kill Needle AND use Karakas this turn, so I GET THERE.

Very tasty match, especially G2. Take the time to read through that text blob in G2 if you can.

[filln]

Possible new toy to replace Ground Seal for those running it?

[Kagemusha]

I don’t particularly care much for the card yet, but mirage mirror is a great card to put in off an opponent’s show and tell, cause it they put in an Emrakul, you just copy it and kill them on your next turn. Also if your opponent brings in a needle, they will never name Mirror. Something to think about.

[jdmdave]

Yeah, that card directly replaces the 2 ground seals in the board.

[DNSolver]

Doesn't draw a card on entering - significantly worse than Ground Seal IMO. I don't play Ground Seal though.

[caseyc]

Doesn't draw a card on entering - significantly worse than Ground Seal IMO. I don't play Ground Seal though.

As a Ground Seal proponent, I may try this card out. However--here is my initial theoretical assessment:

Advantages of this card over Ground Seal: 1 mana versus 2, colorless mana instead of Green (usually doesn't matter, but might be more important for Storm decks who don't really want to be playing Green), has the option to blow up opponent's graveyard in addition to the Ground Seal effect.

Disadvantages: doesn't cantrip on ETB (which really matters, as this effect makes Ground Seal a pretty risk-free SB card because it replaces itself), in order to gain the advantage of the sacrifice effect, you need to hold up 4(!) mana. The decks you really want that effect against are Reanimator, Dredge, and maybe Storm. Holding up 4 mana against those decks is totally unreasonable.

So, in summary, while I like the additional effect of being able to blow up a GY, it costing 4 mana makes it unreasonable in the very matchups you would want that kind of additional effect. Hence, drawing on ETB with Ground Seal seems to outweigh the advantages of this alternative card, despite the additional sacrifice effect on it. I think I'd play either Ground Seal or Relic of Progenitus over this.

[tilzinger]

Discuss.

[DNSolver]

This is worse than Blood Moon against us because we can still cast Decay on it after it has resolved - it doesn't shut off our mana like Blood Moon, which requires us to have basics, fast mana, or have lands untapped to float mana in response.