[Deck] Turbo Depths

[DNSolver]

4-0'd an FNM, then top 8'd a local $1k today with this list:

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Llanowar Wastes (likely going to be replaced with a Blooming Marsh)
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Crop Rotation
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Not of This World
3 Pithing Needle

SB:
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nephalia Drownyard

R1: bye

R2: Storm 0-2
Mulligans in both games. G2 I discard a tutor, and surgical it for another tutor in his hand, leaving him with land, 2 Ponder, some mana. Of course I still die on turn 3 when he Ad Nauseams down to 1 life, finding a Dark Petition as his last card.

R3: Punishing Thing 2-1
I easily get G1 by discarding counterspells to resolve my land searches. G2 I lose to a last-minute topdecked Blood Moon after many turns of me playing around it. G3 I Decay his Thing in the Ice after Needling Wasteland and JTMS and then have an easy time killing him.

R4: Sneak and Omni Show
G1 I die to hardcast Omniscience after I forgot to play Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack (I had been holding it in hand in case of Show and Tell -> Griselbrand) and he snuck in a Griselbrand on defense to block Lage. G2 I make excellent use of Surgicals to limit my opponent's options and keep me informed of his hand, then G3 I discard his Force, he topdecks a sol land to Show and Tell a turn 2 Blood Moon (I put in Hexmage), he misses his 3rd land drop, and i Decay his Moon for the win.

R5: Death and Taxes
G1 his opening is Plains->Vial. I know how to play the matchup so I resolve my search ASAP and then plan on natural comboing. He doesn't have any interaction after I discard his Flickerwisp, I use a Spirit Guide to catch him off guard and kill him a turn early. G2 his opener is Plains, then t2 Wasteland my Bayou. I respond with a Crop Rotation and the game is esssentially over. He plays another Wasteland but holds it up this time. He then plays turn 4 Thalia but I Rotation in response for Ghost Quarter, and combo with him locked under his own Thalia.

R6: Death and Taxes
I was fairly certain that my chances of top 8'ing with a draw were better than my chances of winning, so I drew with my opponent (who was 4-0-1) to get top 8.

Quarters: Storm (same opponent as Swiss)
This guy didn't want to split because he saw he was against me. Matchup has been favorable on MTGO but he's on Caleb Scherer sideboard so perhaps a little better against Chalice and Surgical plan. I mull in all 3 games, G2 and G3 to 5 cards. G2 is one discard spell buying me enough time to combo on turn 3 or 4. G3 I keep land, expedition map, discard x2, chalice or something like that. I discard something and then play Chalice on zero. He guesses my other discard spell correctly on his Therapy and wins on turn 3 off an Ad Nauseam finding Chain of Vapor.

4-0 FNM the night before was:
R1:
R2: Grixis Delver 2-0
R3: Sneak and Omni Show 2-1
R4: Death and Taxes 2-1

Didn't get a chance to use Nephalia Drownyard. Three more ideas for an anti-Miracles sideboard plan:
1) 1x Cloudpost, 1x Eye of Ugin, 1x Emrakul but still loses to fast Mentor
2) 1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All + 3 Rites of Consumption instead of 3 Not of This World (but makes some racing matchups more difficult) - can combo relatively quickly, worse against Vendilion Clique.
3) To beat Mentor and Death and Taxes in general, -4 Surgical +4 Dread of Night in the sideboard. Makes combo matchups and lands matchup worse.

I was originally going to replace the fetches with the Blooming Marshes, but I have been liking basics more with Blood Moons out of some decks. Probably going to replace the Llanowar Wastes with one, but not going to drastically change the manabase when it's fine now.

[Namida]

I was able to win a Grand Prix Trial for Chiba playing DNSolver's 75 from the Legacy Premier. I'm a Storm player in a metagame filled with Chalices and I haven't really done combat math since 2010 so I picked this deck up because it's a combo deck that doesn't have as much trouble against combo hate.

R1 Eldrazi 1-2
Make a quick token in game 1, lose to Wasteland in game 2, lose to turn 3 Eldrazi curve out in game 3.

R2 Bye

R3 Affinity 2-1
Lose to Ravager and blocking Ornithopers in game 1, clean up in games 2 and 3.

R4 Miracles 2-0
Game 1 my opponent tapped his Karakas to miracle a draw step Entreat the Angels to allow me to ESG make Marit Lage a turn ahead of time and Seijiri Steppe past his Angels. Game 2 I play turn 1 Pithing Needle which he had been planning on using to fix his bad hand. Double Not of this World beats Swords to Plowshares.

R5 Shardless ID

Top 8 Bant 2-0
My opponent's draws were so terrible that there's nothing to be gained here.

Top 4 Lands 2-0
Game 1 my opponent puts Dark Depths into play off of Manabond when I have Thespian's Stage and 2 mana on the board.
Game 2 my opponent goes to Wasteland my Thespian's Stage, I Crop Rotation to get Dark Depths, Surgical Extraction Wasteland, Use ESG to make Marit Lage, untap and cast Pithing Needle on his two Maze of Ith, and attack.

Finals Eldrazi Split
My opponent already had byes, so he took the packs and I took the byes.

The deck was far more powerful than I had anticipated. Wasteland caused me some problems but didn't feel completely unbeatable. Elvish Spirit Guide was an MVP and embarrassed quite a few players by allowing me to make Marit Lage ahead of schedule.

[Claymore]

2) 1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All + 3 Rites of Consumption instead of 3 Not of This World (but makes some racing matchups more difficult) - can combo relatively quickly, worse against Vendilion Clique.

If you use City of Brass, Simian Spirit Guide or whatnot, you could use Fling to kill at instant speed.

Gloom is interesting to me, any results?

I don't quite see the point of Nephalia Drownyard unless you want to attempt to put Miracles completely into topdeck mode and not able to use Top.

[Mr. Froggy]

If you use City of Brass, Simian Spirit Guide or whatnot, you could use Fling to kill at instant speed.

I think that's how the deck started out as.

[DNSolver]

It's true that we could run a City of Brass or Mana Confluence or Gemstone Mine to produce red to cast Fling. I would probably rather run a red land such as Taiga or Badlands to cast Fling in that case, so that we can fetch it from Verdant Catacombs. In case it's not clear as to my intentions with Drownyard, I intend to mill them out.

The benefits of Fling are that 1) it can get around Vendilion Clique by being instant speed and 2) in a pinch, it can shoot a creature with a Spirit Guide / Hexmage.

I have not played any games yet with Nephalia Drownyard - whenever I queued with it in a league I didn't play against Miracles, and I didn't play vs any Miracles at the $1k. I have played some games with the Boseiju and it feels powerful because it fits with our primary gameplan so well, they have a hard time tapping out for Mentor or Blood Moon because most of the time we have the combo waiting for them to try that. Then, we eventually draw Rite of Consumption and it straight up kills them. Against Legends Miracles (much less played than Predict / Mentor builds), Venser + Karakas is hard to get through but beatable if you bring in Surgical Extraction, and Vendilion Clique can take Rite out of our hand.

There are a lot of different plans and one of the things I like about this deck is that these might be playable. I would love if some more people could pick up Drownyard for a few matches and tell me if it's remotely feasible. Boseiju certainly is IMO.

[Motto82]

If you use City of Brass, Simian Spirit Guide or whatnot, you could use Fling to kill at instant speed.

Gloom is interesting to me, any results?

I don't quite see the point of Nephalia Drownyard unless you want to attempt to put Miracles completely into topdeck mode and not able to use Top.

I played with Gloom this weekend, and posted the fact I won an Invitational in my country with the deck, running two copies in the sideboard. (You can see my very small report at the bottom of the previous page).
I also have very limited experience with the card so far (and with the deck in general , as this was the second time I took it to a paper event and haven't done much online testing as yet).
The matches I played where I boarded it in were:
Dark Maverick. Played this twice but never drew it. (Round 1 and semi finals versus same opponent, lost R1, won the semi finals).
Death and Taxes. Drew it in game 3 , resolved it on turn 2 on the play and it was easy sailing from there.

My initial feeling is the card hoses D&T , Maverick and Miracles with the latter obviously being more pro-active with Counter Magic. I would only drop it if it doesn't get countered , so basically when I had the opportunity to look at their hand the previouus turn or the turn I want to resolve it.
The downside is it uses up slots and feel we already have little wiggle room in the sideboard. Miracles and Death and Taxes however aren't matchups I feel we can pass up on, so I'll stick to them for the time being and hope to get in more results with it.

It's true that we could run a City of Brass or Mana Confluence or Gemstone Mine to produce red to cast Fling. I would probably rather run a red land such as Taiga or Badlands to cast Fling in that case, so that we can fetch it from Verdant Catacombs. In case it's not clear as to my intentions with Drownyard, I intend to mill them out.

The benefits of Fling are that 1) it can get around Vendilion Clique by being instant speed and 2) in a pinch, it can shoot a creature with a Spirit Guide / Hexmage.

I have not played any games yet with Nephalia Drownyard - whenever I queued with it in a league I didn't play against Miracles, and I didn't play vs any Miracles at the $1k. I have played some games with the Boseiju and it feels powerful because it fits with our primary gameplan so well, they have a hard time tapping out for Mentor or Blood Moon because most of the time we have the combo waiting for them to try that. Then, we eventually draw Rite of Consumption and it straight up kills them. Against Legends Miracles (much less played than Predict / Mentor builds), Venser + Karakas is hard to get through but beatable if you bring in Surgical Extraction, and Vendilion Clique can take Rite out of our hand.

There are a lot of different plans and one of the things I like about this deck is that these might be playable. I would love if some more people could pick up Drownyard for a few matches and tell me if it's remotely feasible. Boseiju certainly is IMO.

I'm intrigued by the Drowyard tech. It looks to me , that with the manabase you play, you can only get activations by saccing Lotus Petal to get blue. That seems quite difficult to pull off and looks to me a revision of your manabase is required to beat a Top over several turns or to actually even get blue mana precisely when you need it? Or does it involve Thespian's Stage copying an opposing blue source from the Miracles player?

[apple713]

2) 1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All + 3 Rites of Consumption instead of 3 Not of This World (but makes some racing matchups more difficult) - can combo relatively quickly, worse against Vendilion Clique.

The tradeoff here is that fling can be cast at instant speed which makes it better against a deck like D&T since D&T can tap down your mana and you can make the token in response and cast fling without passing priority. Rites is on color which makes it easier to cast in general but limited to main phases because its sorcery speed. However, both can be cast without passing priority which mean that counterspells / misdirection are the only things that stop them.

So either could be effective against D&T but less effective against Miracles because 2 is relatively easy to counter unless you see the coast is clear. Because it increases the mana required to win it would be slower and less effective against decks like ANT. If strange things happen and the game goes long then it could be used to win on the spot.

I guess if you are considering using rites / fling it could be substituted for something like not of this world. Fling / Rites gets around STP, Karakas, maze, blockers, terminus, and bounce. HOWEVER, you need to be careful for decks that have access to life gain. Players can swords to plowshares their own creatures to increase their life total above 20 to survive. Then you are hosed.

It could be useful against miracles, D&T, lands, 12 post

Has anyone tested these cards recently?

[adrieng]

I have already tested fling and I can say that is too slow for the deathAndTaxes and bad against miracle because of counters.
Against death and taxes with thalia it will most of the time costs 3 and you have to tap already three lands to make the token (except with vampire) + 3others lands to cast fling you want to do the stuff at the same time that you do the token to be karaks proof/swords proff and so on. Secondly they can just sword one of their creature to be above 20 life anf you need to fling twice :(.
Against miracle you can do it response to a removal but still that's not the issue of miracle stuff like chalice of the void is way better.
What we would need is an artifact/land better here that says sac this artifact and a creature for a fling effect. That would allow to be sure that the fling effect resolves.
@apple In my list I did -1 scrying +1 decay (so 3decay 3 scrying maindeck) to have a better miracle matchup.

As for gloom I am not at all conviced miracle can just play their removals for 4, it is just an enchant which can be disenchnated weared/teared for two for one (hiting needle or others stuff) and chalice is better here.
3 cc enchant have nothing to do in this deck it is too slow.

[DNSolver]

Fling is uncounterable with a single Boseiju. Reconsider the Miracles matchup.

[adrieng]

We are not going to play fling just for the miracle matchup with a boseiju maindeck which is a bad card against most of the decks.
It is a waste slot we want stuff good against most of the decks. I am agaisnt notofthisworld maindeck and for the same reasons and even more reasons agaisnt fling maindeck.

[apple713]

Fling is uncounterable with a single Boseiju. Reconsider the Miracles matchup.

Adrieng is correct on his points. I remember similar findings from long ago now that he has mentioned them. I don't think that including multiple bad cards (or even unoptimal ones at best) is a good idea especially since it is limited in its applications. Miracles isn't so bad that I would warp my deck to play against it. However if there was a solution that hit multiple decks like D&T, Miracles, AND ANT or something that might be worth exploring.

Random Sidenote, When playing the turbo version has anyone tried dark ritual? Im guessing not because green is too important to give up but any feedback here?

@adrieng I really really like abrupt decay in the deck. I play 4 main and It would take a very very strong argument to have me cut that number. Although it doesn't get you closer to winning, it buys you a lot of time by removing creatures or hitting things like counterbalance. Updated your list

[DNSolver]

Boseiju would be in the sideboard for Miracles. Fling / Rite of Consumption has some text in other matchups by getting around Baleful Strix or Lingering Souls in the place of a land search for Sejiri Steppe, though risky because of Force of Will.

For the turbo version, Miracles has been very swingy depending on what turn we aim at comboing on. I would like to be able to keep a slower hand and still have a way to win. Boseiju is one sideboard slot that costs us very little.

Someone asked above how to make blue mana for Nephalia Drownyard out of the sideboard. Copying Miracles players' Tundra / Island / Volc is 100% effective.

I have never considered playing Dark Ritual but it wouldn't help combo any faster except with Expedition Map, or Lotus Petal Hexmage openings. Definitely unplayable IMO, and I'm a dark ritual afficionado.

[apple713]

I have never considered playing Dark Ritual but it wouldn't help combo any faster except with Expedition Map, or Lotus Petal Hexmage openings. Definitely unplayable IMO, and I'm a dark ritual afficionado.

im not sure how it doesn't improve speed since our combo is literally ONLY black / colorless. Swamp stage depths ritual gives you 2 mana for stage activation or hexmage AND 1 extra mana to duress / thought seize. True its not green but green ONLY helps in assembling combo. It also creates more explosive turn 1's, of course at the cost of card advantage.

[ComplexPants]

Played a competitive league tonight with the following list:

[cards]Creatures (8)
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Spells (29)
4 Lotus Petal
1 Duress
1 Expedition Map
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pithing Needle
4 Crop Rotation
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
2 Into the North
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Not of This World

Lands (23)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Gloom


I went 4-1. Losing only to Enchantress only. Main board humility makes me very sad. Game 2 I couldn't find a land tutor even though I managed to discard and surgically extract 4 humility.

Match 1: 2-0 vs Aluren
Not much to say here. He never really got anything going and honestly I have no idea how to play against this deck outside of dodging forcers.

Match 2: 2-0 vs Eldrazi
Game 1 - I am on the play. Discard with urborg turn 1, he plays a tombs. I ghost quarter the tomb and play a sylvan library with ESG. I draw 3 cards next turn and proceed to combo at the end of his turn 3.
Game 2 - Turn 1 he plays a sol land, I play stage and petal to sylvan scry for a urborg (I have Depths in hand). He proceeds to never get a waste land and I win from there.

Match 3: Enchantress 0-2 (see above). I did manage to get 1 poison counter on him through humility with swinging with merit lage, hex mages and ESG before he went off.

Match 4: 2-0 vs UR delver?
This was a brutal match for him. He only ever played 3 lands, and 2 spells over 2 games.
Game 1 - I am on the play. I go stage and 2 petals with an ESG in hand. I [cards]into the north[/c] to get a depths into play. He plays a tarn and probes me and then scoops. Fastest game I have ever won.
Game 2 - Volcanic island into swiftspear. I play turn 1 chalice on 1 with urborg and ESG. Turn 2 fetch and swing. I play DD and put a hexmage into play with another ESG as back up. He scoops.

Match 5: 2-0 vs Grixis delver
Game 1 - On the draw. U Sea pass. Fetch a bayou, and duress which gets spell pierce. I play petal and pass. He misses a land drop and plays delver, pass. I play out hexmage which he attempts to daze, but I have ESG. I play depths from hand and pass. He replays his U sea, brainstorms and scoops.
Game 2 - longer game has he gets a Wasteland on turn 2, but I had a turn 1 chalice on 1. He chips away at me with DRS as I get more lands. Eventually I play out Stage, depths and 2 other lands. At EOT I attempt the combo and he wastes the depths (some thoughts on this later). I was hoping he would do this as I have an into the north in hand. On my turn I tutor up another depths and pass. I have just enough life that he can't kill me with DRS so I can combo for the win.


Very happy with the deck. Wish I had gotten gloom out against enchantress. Ok, question about the wasteland play against the combo. Is it correct for them to wasteland the depth or allow the copying to occur and then wasteland the copy after you choose to keep it. This seems better in my head, but after you have 2 legendary lands in play, does the opponent get priority back before you get to make Merit Lage?

[Negator77']

Very happy with the deck. Wish I had gotten gloom out against enchantress. Ok, question about the wasteland play against the combo. Is it correct for them to wasteland the depth or allow the copying to occur and then wasteland the copy after you choose to keep it. This seems better in my head, but after you have 2 legendary lands in play, does the opponent get priority back before you get to make Merit Lage?

Yes, the opponent gets priority back after you sac the Depths to the legend rule. They get the straight 2 for 1 if you can't play through their Wasteland with a Wasteland/Ghost Quarter of your own, a second Stage, Needle, or Hexmage. That is assuming proper play by the opponent.... which is far from assured since many players still don't fully understand the interaction.

[caprino]

Yes, the opponent gets priority back after you sac the Depths to the legend rule. They get the straight 2 for 1 if you can't play through their Wasteland with a Wasteland/Ghost Quarter of your own, a second Stage, Needle, or Hexmage. That is assuming proper play by the opponent.... which is far from assured since many players still don't fully understand the interaction.

matchup vs miracle and death and taxes is hard?

[ComplexPants]

matchup vs miracle and death and taxes is hard?

Yes. They are chock full of answers to the deck. People are on here are experimenting with gloom as sideboard tech against the deck, as most answers to our combo are white.

[DNSolver]

Got top 16 in the Legacy challenge today, missed top 8 on breakers and ended up in 11th or something.

R1: Dredge 2-0
This matchup is a bye.

R2: UR Delver 2-1

R3: UR weird Stasis stuff 2-0

R4: GW Cloudpost 2-0
Very interesting plays in these matches involving Primeval Titan and his Crop Rotations. Very skill based because both of our decks are based on tutors but obviously this deck is bigger when we are allowed to assemble our respective combos.

R5: Shardless BUG 1-2
Punted G1 by not using my fast mana to be a turn faster.

R6: Storm 1-2
Lost both sideboard games despite having Chalice on 0 and 1 in G2 and Chalice on 1 on turn 1 in G3. Ad Nauseam really got him there.

R7: Miracles
Was milling him with Drownyard in G2 but was one turn too slow. He graciously conceded to me after offering a prize split since I had higher breakers. I then missed and was sad.

[molaboy]

hi guys, what's the use of the ancient tomb in the sideboard?

[ComplexPants]

hi guys, what's the use of the ancient tomb in the sideboard?

Another way to turn 1 chalice. Or turn 1 gloom with petal, Turn 3 combo with Stage and depths. Just fast mana, but tutorable.

And grats DNSolver!