[Deck] Turbo Depths

[adrieng]

Poron

I think 4 Urborg are correct but no protection for Marit Lage is not very good..

Maybe Thoughtseize for Cabal Therapy and Not of this World for Gitaxian Probe?

Also Into the North for BoP.. wouldn't it be better?

Please don't post comments while you didn't test ; I have been testing the deck since thespian's stage exist and before and playing mostly uniquely this deck. Have been testing list with not of this world/petal/guide/reb/library/steely resolve/fling/carpet of flowers/into the north ( I am the first one who proposed this card)/chrome moxPunishing fire package chalice of the void main/side ; UB standtsil list maze main/side veteran explorer lists with titania+safekeeper ; mix with eldrazi lists ; and so on ...

I can't say you have been doing the same. This list is the lattest and hasn't changed (or very little) since more than one year while I still been testing other stuffs.
I have more protection than most of the list as cabal therapy is mostly a double discard and have also duress crop into sejiri.

Not of this wold is side stuff for sure.

[ComplexPants]

As others have said, Grip is a nod towards show and tell. From what I have gathered it has been dropping in popularity. But it is a 50/50 matchup imo.

I think Sylvan Library should be a one of - playing it turn 1 is disgusting. If it gets forced fine, they dumped an answer to getting the combo together.

I would also consider Crucible. In matches that will get grindy (D&T, miracles, BUG, etc) having near infinite access to the combo is money. Also you can GQ people out of games.

I plan on testing 2 libraries, 2 crucibles and 2 GQ at some point.


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[Poron]

Please don't post comments while you didn't test ; I have been testing the deck since thespian's stage exist and before and playing mostly uniquely this deck. Have been testing list with not of this world/petal/guide/reb/library/steely resolve/fling/carpet of flowers/into the north ( I am the first one who proposed this card)/chrome moxPunishing fire package chalice of the void main/side ; UB standtsil list maze main/side veteran explorer lists with titania+safekeeper ; mix with eldrazi lists ; and so on ...

I can't say you have been doing the same. This list is the lattest and hasn't changed (or very little) since more than one year while I still been testing other stuffs.
I have more protection than most of the list as cabal therapy is mostly a double discard and have also duress crop into sejiri.

Not of this wold is side stuff for sure.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Just to know, how do you deal with StP and Karakas G1?
Just Crop into Seijiri?

Combined, they are played from like 80% of the format.

Also: have you tried Life from the Loam? it would be so fixing.. and can mislead the opponent into grave hate

[Sansian]

I've got to say that I'm really impressed with this deck. I always wrote this deck off as a worse version of lands for filthy poors after seeing the old incarnation of the deck with Lilianas and whatnot that played more like a really confused midrange deck with Mox Diamonds and Loams back in 2013. After seeing it on camera I realized just how resilient and strong the strategy was. I picked up the Scryings, Not of This Worlds, and Hexmages on Sunday evening as well as searching through my random "maybe one day, card" boxes for an Into the North. Based upon my extensive three days of experience, I love the deck. I've been grinding games against my gf and roommates and it's just great. Thematically it feels about as on point as a legacy deck gets. Almost all of the art can be found in versions that fit the color scheme, and it really does feel like I'm some Lovecraftian cultist busying myself trying to summon a Great Old One to bring about the end of days.

Sorry about geeking out over the deck, but I just wanted to say that it's lots of fun and so far it seems really strong. A bit like the all-in BR reanimator deck, but without a reliance on the yard and an arguably better fatty as the pay off.

[adrieng]

Just to know, how do you deal with StP and Karakas G1?
Just Crop into Seijiri?

Combined, they are played from like 80% of the format.

Also: have you tried Life from the Loam? it would be so fixing.. and can mislead the opponent into grave hate

It seems you never ever played the deck, asking such basics questions. You have like 20 answers (even more) to karakas needle/every tutor piece into ghost quarter.
And like 11 answers to sword 4 crop +3 duress+4 cabal (play it at the right time if you are not playing against combo or tempo no need to hurry waiting for stoneforge search by example against death and taxes or a probe/duress ;
if you have it in hand no need to hurry into naming swords against death and taxes worry about his clock first then when you are both in topdeck mode, play it naming swords at the turn before comboing no need to name sword before
that's a wrong move).

Life from the loam is not good; I have tested it before I used to play it as one off but I don't anymore tutors are better most of the time, and I ld play a one off crucible before

[ComplexPants]

Sejiri steppe does not protect against karakas (not a colored source). NoTW is also good here.

Wasteland can 2 for 1 us and is commonly and we can't easily protect our combo from. We also can't cause it to be discarded. Needle is the best way to deal with wastelands...stage copying GQ or wasteland can also force their hands.


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[jdmdave]

So the gitaxian approach was absolutely trash - back to 2 into the north & 1 sylvan library (still iffy on the map) I go.

What is everyone's thoughts on Therapy + Khalni vs traditional 4x duress?

[adrieng]

So the gitaxian approach was absolutely trash - back to 2 into the north & 1 sylvan library (still iffy on the map) I go.

What is everyone's thoughts on Therapy + Khalni vs traditional 4x duress?

So yeah you have like one day of testing and you concluded that. I play the deck since thespian's stage was released so more than three years ago, and have concluded differently.

As for sylvan library, this card was a four off in the first version of the deck mainly as an answer to swords versus death and taxes and miracle ; but this card can be dead in some matchups aggroish RUG tempo/ ur delver/ burn and so on.
As my lattest version does well against deathandtaxes and miracle I think cutting it is the way to go.

I have tested before the lotus petal and the guide and I can say it is not the way to go. Sure you can be faster and it is not always true turn one map with urbor+thespian or urborg+depth goes as fast as hand with into the north/guide/petal. So petal+guide have lot of deads top decks which can be crucial, and are weaker to miracle and deathAndTaxes and higher variance.

[ComplexPants]

Discard is powerful but can be difficult to use to maximum effect, as I showed on camera lol. I haven't tried therapy, but I feel without the redundancy it is a great way to whiff against brainstorm decks. I would rather have targeted removal even if it can only be 1-for-1. But again I haven't tried it out.


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[apple713]

chalice is for miracle and ANT. Chalice @1 if placed properly is gamebreaking against miracle they can't remove the combo more than once and they need top in play before chalice.
If they answer it with wear tear ; fine you know have access to your surgical extraction.

It is not good against delver

in my version of the deck that is more grindy than others, chalice against delver decks is pretty good actually. A good portion of their decks are 1cmc cards. 8/12 of their creatures (assuming delver mongoose and goyf) are 1 cmc creatures. The other damage dealer they have is lightning bolt and price post board. Because I run 4 AD main and 3 liliana, it makes it very easy for me to lock them out of creatures, especially since game 1 they have 0 answers to a chalice. I play chalice main deck so its more of a decision to SB it out if the opponent's deck composition seems to circumvent the benefits of keeping chalice in.

I think Sylvan Library should be a one of - playing it turn 1 is disgusting. If it gets forced fine, they dumped an answer to getting the combo together.

Generally I would agree with this statement but it depends on your build. If your version, like mine expects longer games it has more value. Against faster decks it gets boarded out because it is too slow.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Just to know, how do you deal with StP and Karakas G1?
Just Crop into Seijiri?

Combined, they are played from like 80% of the format.

Also: have you tried Life from the Loam? it would be so fixing.. and can mislead the opponent into grave hate

i don't know where you get your numbers but I did run an analysis on the format and stp karakas is certainly not 80% of the format. I can get the number if you are actually interested but its somewhere posted in previous pages.

Life from the loam is not good; I have tested it before I used to play it as one off but I don't anymore tutors are better most of the time, and I ld play a one off crucible before

life of the loam is not great in multiples since we are not implementing a strategy like lands. However, I've found as a one of it is generally helpful. The synergy with moxes and sylvan library give it value. Additionally it works well with liliana (which is only in my deck).

Crucible is great. It's one time payment for unlimited access to your graveyard. The only downsides really is that it doesn't help you dig if you need to, it doesn't add cards to your hand to play mox diamonds, and it can be destroyed fairly easily. Loam is obviously slower.

of course these difference in opinions are largely based on the fact that our decks are built differently and play differently.

Sejiri steppe does not protect against karakas (not a colored source). NoTW is also good here.

Wasteland can 2 for 1 us and is commonly and we can't easily protect our combo from. We also can't cause it to be discarded. Needle is the best way to deal with wastelands...stage copying GQ or wasteland can also force their hands.

A general rule of mine is that if I am expecting an opponent to play a wasteland I always hold crop rotation for when they use wasteland. It ends up being a 1:1 wasteland for crop rotation BUT you get the tutor effect so you are ahead.

As for sylvan library, this card was a four off in the first version of the deck mainly as an answer to swords versus death and taxes and miracle ; but this card can be dead in some matchups aggroish RUG tempo/ ur delver/ burn and so on.
As my lattest version does well against deathandtaxes and miracle I think cutting it is the way to go.

I have tested before the lotus petal and the guide and I can say it is not the way to go. Sure you can be faster and it is not always true turn one map with urbor+thespian or urborg+depth goes as fast as hand with into the north/guide/petal. So petal+guide have lot of deads top decks which can be crucial, and are weaker to miracle and deathAndTaxes and higher variance.

adrieng's advice here should be applied as a general rule that the best way to build the main deck is to reduce the amount of dead cards. Ideally your deck won't have ANY dead cards but that is unrealistic.




I think part of the issue people do not realize is that we all play in slightly different meta games and thus our experiences and testing is different. While most experienced players here agree on a set number of cards we still have a difference of opinion on a few cards (like 8-10 and you can see the differences in the lists in the primer). Part of the appeal of this deck is that the list is fairly flexible. Some people are better at playing their version over others because of play style.

[ComplexPants]

Another top 8 finish in paper on mtggoldfish. They played 2 deluge in the board. I don't hate that at all.


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[apple713]

Another top 8 finish in paper on mtggoldfish. They played 2 deluge in the board. I don't hate that at all.


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deluge is very nice but can be expensive to cast. Sometimes it is too slow against decks like D&T because they tax your mana with thalia and ports. Since it's a sorcery it cannot be cast in response so its more difficult to play. The upside is that it has application against creatures that have varying toughness. Elves, merfolk, maverick, goyf, etc.

[ComplexPants]

I am kind of thinking about it in grindy games where fliers are present. Decks that produce only ground threats I just want to go fast and protect the combo. Flicker wisp, delver, strix, Serra avenger, angel tokens all give this deck problems. I would almost play languish if it wasn't 4 mana.


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[gngpostalsrvc]

After a really weird game against an Aluren player this weekend where I copied his Volrath's Stronghold, I thought about incorporating Life from the Loam into Turbo Depths as a combination of protection and inevitability. What do you guys think?


4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb

4 Exploration
1 Manabond

4 Life from the Loam
4 Thoughtseize
1 Raven’s Crime

4 Mox Diamond

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian’s Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket

[apple713]

I am kind of thinking about it in grindy games where fliers are present. Decks that produce only ground threats I just want to go fast and protect the combo. Flicker wisp, delver, strix, Serra avenger, angel tokens all give this deck problems. I would almost play languish if it wasn't 4 mana.


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well for 4 mana you get damnation which is better imo. Since D&T is so problematic has anyone tried dread of night? I don't think i've heard a report from a single person who has tried it. Yes I am aware it is extremely limited but its also a game breaking card. Unless I overlooked something the 3x D&T decks in the top 8 of Eternal weekend only have 2x cards in the board of dealing with a dread of night.

After a really weird game against an Aluren player this weekend where I copied his Volrath's Stronghold, I thought about incorporating Life from the Loam into Turbo Depths as a combination of protection and inevitability. What do you guys think?


4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb

4 Exploration
1 Manabond

4 Life from the Loam
4 Thoughtseize
1 Raven’s Crime

4 Mox Diamond

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian’s Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket

I addressed life from the loam along with other people who addressed it on this page and the previous page. Please read the last page or two or the primer before posting. The primer is long but ctrl + F life from the loam.... We have addressed almost every card there.

I played a version similar to yours a long time ago. It had gambles, and it worked but it was heavily graveyard dependent. Grave yard dependancy isn't good for us because so many decks run surgical extraction. Life from the loam was terrible when you needed to draw cards and find SB answers too.

[jdmdave]

So yeah you have like one day of testing and you concluded that. I play the deck since thespian's stage was released so more than three years ago, and have concluded differently.

As for sylvan library, this card was a four off in the first version of the deck mainly as an answer to swords versus death and taxes and miracle ; but this card can be dead in some matchups aggroish RUG tempo/ ur delver/ burn and so on.
As my lattest version does well against deathandtaxes and miracle I think cutting it is the way to go.

I have tested before the lotus petal and the guide and I can say it is not the way to go. Sure you can be faster and it is not always true turn one map with urbor+thespian or urborg+depth goes as fast as hand with into the north/guide/petal. So petal+guide have lot of deads top decks which can be crucial, and are weaker to miracle and deathAndTaxes and higher variance.

1. Get off your high horse about playing since the "beginning" - I have been playing DD depths style decks since the original modern pro tour. Meta's change and multiple blasts through the MTGO competitive league is pretty representative of the current top tier meta (before you bring up port, I've played about 20% of my games vs. D&T).

2. I agree that Library is probably best suited as a 0-1 fun-off and I will test it vs map/3rd into the north/other recommendations in advance of the GP

3. I respectively disagree re: fast mana. ESG & Petal give the deck the linear explosiveness necessary to quickly close games vs. fair/semi-fair decks (eldrazi/blade/delver) before they can get going. I can't count the games were a combo of ESG/Petal/Crop Rotation Ritual allowed me to convert a turn 2 depths+stage into a win. Moreover, the deck can sometimes have green mana problems due to 12 maindeck B/colorless sources and the fast mana effects are very important.

4. How close are we on the sideboard? I'm pretty happy with 1x Karakas, 1x Maze of Ith, 4x Sphere of Resistance, 3x Abrupt Decay, 3x Surgical Extraction, 1x Not of this World, but the final 2 slots have proven to be vexing. Massacre (Narrow)? Deluge (Expensive vs. Thalia)? Darkblast (Narrow)? Dread of Night (Narrow)? Golgari Charm (Not -2/-2)? Pernicious Deed (Expensive)? Sylvan Libraries vs. Miracles (Narrow)? 4th Surgical (Narrow)? Krosan Grip (Expensive vs. Sphere)?

[Izza]

I was wondering about the 4 copies of Sphere of Resistance. I don't see why someone plays them over the playset Chalice of the Void.
Sure it cuts us from Crop and Discard, but if you play Chalice of the Void, you lock so many decks out and even slow so many decks down. Sphere only kills Storm, other decks can get around with little efford. I can see why its slows them more than us, but is it worth it?

[AmokPL]

I am kind of thinking about it in grindy games where fliers are present. Decks that produce only ground threats I just want to go fast and protect the combo. Flicker wisp, delver, strix, Serra avenger, angel tokens all give this deck problems. I would almost play languish if it wasn't 4 mana.


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why not Massacre? Thinking of it instead of Gloom which is good only as played in the first two turns.

[DNSolver]

Putting Sphere in off of Show and Tell shuts off the Omniscience kill for at least a turn.

The problem with Chalice is that some decks that fold to it (namely Delver) are already very easy matchups. The consideration is the Miracles matchup, where you would be fine with having Chalice, except you probably also want discard spells, Pithing Needles for Top, and access to 1 mana searches such as Expedition Map / Crop Rotation. I have found discard spells to be good to stop Blood Moon / early mentors / Jace / wear/tear and more in conjunction with Surgical Extraction. I tried Chalice for a while but unless we are interested in cutting a ton of our 1-drops postboard (such as -8 discard -4 crop -1 X) for +4 Chalice +4 Surgical +1 Needle +4 Decay) but then you are boarding in Chalice and Surgical. I prefer Sphere because Surgical can still be cast in the matchups where we want both (BR Reanimator, Storm, Show and Tell).

I still have Chalices in paper but I'm trying to get rid of them for Spheres.

[Griselpuff]

Putting Sphere in off of Show and Tell shuts off the Omniscience kill for at least a turn.

The problem with Chalice is that some decks that fold to it (namely Delver) are already very easy matchups. The consideration is the Miracles matchup, where you would be fine with having Chalice, except you probably also want discard spells, Pithing Needles for Top, and access to 1 mana searches such as Expedition Map / Crop Rotation. I have found discard spells to be good to stop Blood Moon / early mentors / Jace / wear/tear and more in conjunction with Surgical Extraction. I tried Chalice for a while but unless we are interested in cutting a ton of our 1-drops postboard (such as -8 discard -4 crop -1 X) for +4 Chalice +4 Surgical +1 Needle +4 Decay) but then you are boarding in Chalice and Surgical. I prefer Sphere because Surgical can still be cast in the matchups where we want both (BR Reanimator, Storm, Show and Tell).

I still have Chalices in paper but I'm trying to get rid of them for Spheres.

How do you sb vs Delver?