[Deck] Turbo Depths

[DNSolver]

Oh ho! A wild delver player emerges!

Typically +1 Pithing Needle +4 Abrupt Decay for -3 Not of This World -1 Bojuka Bog -1 Duress?

[Griselpuff]

Oh ho! A wild delver player emerges!

Typically +1 Pithing Needle +4 Abrupt Decay for -3 Not of This World -1 Bojuka Bog -1 Duress?

That looks right, Oran beat me twice in the trial and had t1 Needle all four games. I think if you have Needle, it's really hard for me, if you don't, then I might be favored. If I just leave up a Wasteland, you need to jump through a bunch of hoops to combo.

He also brought in Chalice which seemed bad, especially because I'm bringing in artifact removal. Furthermore, it doesn't synergize with Needle/Crop Rotation.

Overall, this seems like one of my worst match-ups. I just hope D&T (and smart players who know how Wasteland works) will be enough to keep it down.

[Izza]

The consideration is the Miracles matchup, where you would be fine with having Chalice, except you probably also want discard spells, Pithing Needles for Top, and access to 1 mana searches such as Expedition Map / Crop Rotation. I have found discard spells to be good to stop Blood Moon / early mentors / Jace / wear/tear and more in conjunction with Surgical Extraction. I tried Chalice for a while but unless we are interested in cutting a ton of our 1-drops postboard (such as -8 discard -4 crop -1 X) for +4 Chalice +4 Surgical +1 Needle +4 Decay) but then you are boarding in Chalice and Surgical.
I still have Chalices in paper but I'm trying to get rid of them for Spheres.

But isn't Chalice, significantly better for D&T and stops Top and StP in Miracles right on the spot?
I own all the pieces for MD and SB, except the playset Sphere of Resistance/Chalice of the Void. So I'm very interested in the pros and cons and what to get.
Edit:I'm considering getting a 4th NOTW as well. Also I'm planning to play a second GQ in SB, but its hard to cut stuff. Maybe the DY in the Land Spot.
I think Crucible of Worlds, could be overrated. This card has not won me a lot of matches. It eats Decay faster than an obese kid his happymeal. :D

[DNSolver]

I don't bring in Chalice against D+T. All our discard is important for stopping Flickerwisp or other stupid creatures, as well as nabbing Swords to Plowshares. Further, our one mana searches and Needles are invaluable.

[ComplexPants]

That looks right, Oran beat me twice in the trial and had t1 Needle all four games. I think if you have Needle, it's really hard for me, if you don't, then I might be favored. If I just leave up a Wasteland, you need to jump through a bunch of hoops to combo.

He also brought in Chalice which seemed bad, especially because I'm bringing in artifact removal. Furthermore, it doesn't synergize with Needle/Crop Rotation.

Overall, this seems like one of my worst match-ups. I just hope D&T (and smart players who know how Wasteland works) will be enough to keep it down.

Hey man. When I played you I didn't realize you won last year! Congrats on that by the way! Chalice can bite you in the ass with this deck, I haven't tried sphere yet, but plan to online. Don't have them in paper yet.

I brought them in against ANT, reanimator and miracles during the main event.


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[uncletiggy]

For the opening post under general tips it might be worth adding that hexmage clears aether vial counters as well as chalice under the section about killing walkers. Its also probably worth noting somewhere that copying basics with thespian stage protects it from wasteland and to not forget to manually thaw that bad boy out with left over mana.


Also is anyone else attending the baltimore open ill be on bug with md NoTW...

[jdmdave]

Are we locked in on a general sideboarding +/- guide vs the tier 1/tier 2 matchups? I'm starting my GP Chiba practice in ernest and hope to go into the event prepared. It seems like 1x needle, 1x Karakas, 1x Ith, 4x Sphere, 3-4 Surgical, 3-4 decay, 0-1 not of this world is the di rigeuer norm.

I'm expecting a very miracles, eldrazi, and reanimator heavy metagame.

[DNSolver]

Jeez, no one is getting behind Nephalia Drownyard? :(

[jdmdave]

I actually tested it as well as the eldrazi coffers plan and liked it! The thing is I typically prefer a 4th needle over drownyard to stop top.

I've also found that 4x blooming marsh can be somewhat clunky, so I've gone for a more fetchland intensive (and expensive!) manabase solution. Therapy was also kind of clunky w/o Probe, so going back to a more traditional duress build.

Maindeck

* 4 Urborg
* 4 Depths
* 4 Stage
* 3 Marsh
* 1 Steppe
* 1 GQ
* 2 Verdant Catacombs
* 1 Snow-Forest
* 1 Snow-Swamp
* 4 Crop Rotation
* 4 Sylvan Scrying
* 1 Expedition Map (Adrieng was right, this card is great!)
* 4 Lotus Petal
* 4 ESG
* 4 Tsieze
* 4 Duress
* 4 Hexmage
* 2 Into the North (Still prefer it to Map, but It's pretty close. The ability to turbo out a T1 Hexmage into turn 2 Into the North -> Depths is quite strong)
* 3 Not of this World (critical with so much DnT/Karakas)
* 3 Pithing Needle

Sideboard

* 1 Pithing Needle
* 1 Karakas (Clunky MD, but critical vs SnT/Reanimator/et al.)
* 1 Maze of Ith (I'd actually prefer Tabernacle, but alas I'm not spending 1k+ on a non-power card)
* 3 Surgical (Occilating between 3-4, but I feel that crop rotation into bog + 3 Surgical is enough to police graveyard strategies)
* 1 Not of this World (Extra STP/Karakas protection)
* 3 Abrupt Decay (General Catchall)
* 4 Sphere of Resistance (Downright Incredible and I really prefer it to Chalice as Sphere keeps your discard spells active)
* 1 Open Slot (Liliana the Last Hope, 4th Surgical, Drownyard, Sylvan Library, Massacre, Darkblast, Golgari Charm, 4th Abrupt decay...thoughts on something useful vs miracles & DnT?)

[Motto82]

Is it a budget thing people are playing Blooming Marsh over Bayou?
Especially when you add fetches I can't see the reasoning to pick Blooming Marsh over Bayou.

[adrieng]

Is it a budget thing people are playing Blooming Marsh over Bayou?
Especially when you add fetches I can't see the reasoning to pick Blooming Marsh over Bayou.

That has been said a billion of times there is submerge in side of RUG delver and infect and sometimes merfolk ; if you want to lose to it play bayou.

Playing blooming marsh has close to zero issue over bayou and fetches open you to stifle. So it might be wrong to play bayou+fetch specially if you don't play top.

[Izza]

Playing blooming marsh has close to zero issue over bayou and fetches open you to stifle. So it might be wrong to play bayou+fetch specially if you don't play top.

Havent you ever fizzled, because it comes into play tapped? I get your point with Stifle and Submerge, but not activating TS with the 4th land comming into play tapped sounds very bad to me. The last time I was stifled, I was playing the "german B.U.r.G." 2 years ago.
How about a split. 3xCatacomb(3 Targets, but maybe two Catacomb are enough), 1xBayou and 3xMarsh. That way I can fix mana, with only 2 forests in my deck.

[Motto82]

That has been said a billion of times there is submerge in side of RUG delver and infect and sometimes merfolk ; if you want to lose to it play bayou.

Playing blooming marsh has close to zero issue over bayou and fetches open you to stifle. So it might be wrong to play bayou+fetch specially if you don't play top.

Adrieng - please relax a little. It doesn't cost anything extra to be a little more polite.
You probably mean well - but you certainly don't come across that way.

I haven't had the time to read through all the pages on this website - I am actually quite new to the deck. However, I am absolutely not new to the format.
Stifle to me isn't an argument these days w/ RUG Delver being played considerably less these days. And which other cornerstone decks are sporting 3/4 copies of Stifle? The occasional Grixis Delver list does, but it's certainly not stock in those lists.

The Submerge argument holds more value to me but to me it isn't worth running a manabase that is susceptible to Blood Moon and that feels a lot more clunky. I have been trying a manabase with Marsh and done some serious goldfishing with it and it feels less smooth than the Bayou one. I also run a one-off Library in the main, fetches give me extra shuffles to find what I need. Acknowledging Submerge is a potential threat but also only a two off in most Infect and BUG lists? When it comes to the latter they really don't have a lot they can fight with. We have 6-8 discard spells in the main + X protection effects. I just don't see it as a justifcation to run a more clunky manabase.
Do you see a lot of Merfolk these days? I don't, in fact I gave it another spin myself before picking up this deck (In Modern I play Merfolk almost exclusively) and it's just an awful deck choice at the moment. I'm not going to take into account a deck that is hardly played. However, when it comes to Merfolk, I'm actually more worried about Back to Basics, which is another argument to actually run those fetches - so I can fetch basics and decay their crippling enchantment in case I fail to discard it.

[ottomanottoman]

Jeez, no one is getting behind Nephalia Drownyard? :(

I've been trying the drownyard on Cockatrice and have enjoyed it. It's not something miracles players expect to see, that's for sure.

[ComplexPants]

I was debating drownyard, but I didn't have too much experience with it so I didn't bring it last weekend. I will still advocate crucible in the board for a meta where you think you might go long against grindy matches.


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[adrieng]

I haven't had the time to read through all the pages on this website - I am actually quite new to the deck. However, I am absolutely not new to the format.
Stifle to me isn't an argument these days w/ RUG Delver being played considerably less these days. And which other cornerstone decks are sporting 3/4 copies of Stifle? The occasional Grixis Delver list does, but it's certainly not stock in those lists.

The Submerge argument holds more value to me but to me it isn't worth running a manabase that is susceptible to Blood Moon and that feels a lot more clunky. I have been trying a manabase with Marsh and done some serious goldfishing with it and it feels less smooth than the Bayou one. I also run a one-off Library in the main, fetches give me extra shuffles to find what I need. Acknowledging Submerge is a potential threat but also only a two off in most Infect and BUG lists? When it comes to the latter they really don't have a lot they can fight with. We have 6-8 discard spells in the main + X protection effects. I just don't see it as a justifcation to run a more clunky manabase.
Do you see a lot of Merfolk these days? I don't, in fact I gave it another spin myself before picking up this deck (In Modern I play Merfolk almost exclusively) and it's just an awful deck choice at the moment. I'm not going to take into account a deck that is hardly played. However, when it comes to Merfolk, I'm actually more worried about Back to Basics, which is another argument to actually run those fetches - so I can fetch basics and decay their crippling enchantment in case I fail to discard it.

Yeah sorry for my answer I haven't looked whether it is on the primer or not, but both alternative are credible ; It's meta dependant, at the beginning of the deck RUG delver was tier one so two-three years ago, and they all had a 4 off submerge in side so there was really no doubt to not play any forest. In today's meta both alternative are credible
it depends if you want to have a better delver matchup. I have never had issue with blooming marsh beeing too slow ; I have sometimes regreat to not being able to fetch with a top. So if you want to play fetch+bayou I suggest to either play top or brainstorm other way there is no real gain, maybe for blood moon but I still have doubts here.

[uncletiggy]

Im still debating on a drownyard or a dread of night for tomorrow. This is my list its a little unorthodox and almost entirely untested in this form but we'll see wish me luck the only budget constraint is not having the flusterstorms but i may just buy them tomorrow morning:

8
4 mox diamond
4 hexmage


12
4 bstorm
4 crop rotation
4 sylvan scrying

12
4 thought seize
3 pithing needle
3 notw
1 duress
1 iok

28
4 stage
4 depths
4 urborg
3 bayou
1 snow covered forest
4 verdant
1 misty
1 delta
1 usea
1 trop
1 seriji step
1 b bog
2 ghost quarter

1 sylvan library
1 lftl
3 decay
3 pierce
1 karakas
1 needle
1 grip
1 Dread of night
3 surgical

[Izza]

Im still debating on a drownyard or a dread of night for tomorrow.

I think it depends on the meta that you are expecting. I feel like Dread of Night does some srs work against the hard D&T matchup. To be honest i haven't tested the yard enough to say something about that. You can be sure that every miracle playera look very confused, when you copycat the island and start milling them.(in your case you got the blue, so you dont have to copy.)
The yard hasn't won me a single match. (BUT I have maybe done like 10 games against miracles with yard. My oppenend were semi expirienced players.)
I like the Dread of Night more, but many players told me yard is a solid option.

[apple713]

Jeez, no one is getting behind Nephalia Drownyard? :(

its a terrible plan. First you have to tutor for it, then you have to copy an island, then you have to wait 15 turns.

[jdmdave]

Well I got my byes for GP Chiba! 4 round GPT vs. a good field. I like how the Fetch + Fast manabase gives you a nice middle ground between protecting marit from submerge while also avoiding unnecessary painland damage/4th land CIP tapped crap. 3rd into the north was also an allstar as T1 Into the North Into T2 Marit was a solid line vs non-wasteland opponents.

Round 1 - Eldrazi (2-0) Turn 2 Marit Lage is kind of mean vs. Turn 2 TKS
Round 2 - Traditional Miracles (1-0). Game I jammed a turn 10 Marit with double discard + 2 Not of this world backup. Game 2 was a 35 minute affair where I as @ 60 life, but my opponent had no win conditions after I discarded plus surgicaled his mentors + Jace.
Round 3 - Burn (2-0). Can't Lose.
Round 4 - ID
Quarterfinals - Eldrazi (2-0). Again, Turn 2 Marit is Mean.
Semifinals - Grixis Delver (2-1). I lost game 1 to a turn 1 delver turn 2 Tseize + Bstorm Turn 3 Snap + Tseize type hand. G2 I powered out a turn 2 Marit. G3 I destroyed his hand with turn 1 tseize into turn 2 double duress, then turn 3 natural urborg+thespian+depths marit.
Finals - DnT (2-1). Game 1 I powered out a turn 2 marit with Not of this World protection + Ghost quarter in hand. Game 2 He went turn 1 mom, turn 2 thalia, turn 3 big thalia, turn 4 karakas + revoker. Game 3 I killed his small thalia around turn 6, crop rotated for a GQ, blew up his karakas, then comboed him out.

Maindeck

* 4 Urborg
* 4 Dark Depths
* 4 Thespian's
* 1 Snow Covered Forest
* 1 Snow Covered Swamp
* 1 Bayou
* 2 Verdant Catacombs
* 1 Ghost Quarter
* 1 Sejiri Steppe
* 3 Blooming Marsh
* 1 Bojuka Bog (expecting lots of reanimator @ the GP)
* 4 Sylvan Scrying
* 4 Crop Rotation
* 3 Into the North (I like the 3rd Into the North over Expedition Map/Library as it immediately gets a combo piece/ramps you)
* 4 Thoughtseize
* 4 Duress
* 3 Not of this world
* 3 Pithing Needle
* 4 Vampire Hexmage
* 4 Elvish Spirit Guide
* 4 Lotus Petal

Sideboard

* 4 Sphere of Resistance
* 3 Surgical Extraction
* 1 Maze of Ith
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Not of this world
* 1 Pithing Needle
* 1 Krosan Grip (Pretty iffy on this tbh. I'm going back and forth between a 4th surgical, a sylvan library (miracles), massacre (DnT), Crucible of Worlds (Grindy Matchups), Darkblast (DnT), Toxic Deluge (DnT/Eldrazi. Thoughts?)