[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Lio]

Current paper list:

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Not of This World
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog

SB:
3-4 Chalice of the Void*
3-4 Surgical Extraction*
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Karakas

*Can't decide whether to play 3 Chalice or 3 Surgical in the board. Maindeck is solid.

Current online testing list, same as above with the following changes:
-1 Duress
-1 Elvish Spirit Guide
-0-1 Sylvan Scrying
+2-3 Sylvan Library

SB:
same

If you go Emrakul plan against Miracles, do you board in Chalice of the Void? To setup big Emrakul manabase, you need to have thespian stage, urborg, eye of ugin and Cabal coffers. You probably draw one of these naturally, tutor the rest. Plus you must have dark depths to threaten kill. With such requirements, CotV@1 or 2 will significantly jeopardize your plan to assemble all lands and you may end up with nothing. Haven't tried it yet except sample hands against the wall.

[jdmdave]

Acquired missing bayous on day 2 of the GP and 5-0ed my local monthly tournament using the emrakul plan. Deck is straight FIRE.

* 3 Bayou
* 2 Snow Lands
* 1 GQ
* 1 Steppe
* 12 Combo Lands
* 3 Marsh
* 1 Bog
* 4 Crop
* 2 Into
* 2 Expedition Map
* 4 ESG
* 4 Petal
* 4 Duress
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Scrying
* 4 Hexmage
* 3 Needle
* 2 Notw

Sideboard

* 3 Surgical
* 4 Sphere
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Emrakul
* 1 Eye of Ugin
* 1 Needle
* 1 Cabal Coffers

[apple713]

Acquired missing bayous on day 2 of the GP and 5-0ed my local monthly tournament using the emrakul plan. Deck is straight FIRE.

* 3 Bayou
* 2 Snow Lands
* 1 GQ
* 1 Steppe
* 12 Combo Lands
* 3 Marsh
* 1 Bog
* 4 Crop
* 2 Into
* 2 Expedition Map
* 4 ESG
* 4 Petal
* 4 Duress
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Scrying
* 4 Hexmage
* 3 Needle
* 2 Notw

Sideboard

* 3 Surgical
* 4 Sphere
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Emrakul
* 1 Eye of Ugin
* 1 Needle
* 1 Cabal Coffers

Is that emrakul, the aeons torn or the other one? And could you elaborate on how emrakul performed?

[ns407]

what do you guys bring chalice in for? what do you take out, crop rotation?

[studderingdave]

@JDMDave how do you like not having catacombs? I am currently building depths and they are the last item on my list.

[AmokPL]

what do you guys bring chalice in for? what do you take out, crop rotation?

Chalice rips UR delver and burn. I also side it in against Lands and Reanimator depending whether on play. Depending what you play against I would side out Crops or some discard.

Also I played without the catacombs using Foothills and Heath's and I am glad I acquired VC. The deck feels much smoother now. Obviously you can play with other G fetches but there will come time that you will be f...ed for not having them (happened many times against Painter or other decks using Blood Moon)

[Deckerator]

Played a match against BG Deck.
They had 1x Karakas and Liliana and Pox main.
Out of the board they had Surgical Extraction. In one of the matches my Dark Depths got surgicaled away...I won by Hexmage beatdown, but wasnt easy.
We heavily rely on Dark Depths. If this happens is there a chance to avoid it or something else i havent seen yet?

[MBSegal]

Played in a ~60 person event this weekend (an IQ or something with a cute name). Split top 4 with the same list I played in Chiba (already have byes and invites). My one loss was to a deck with Wasteland/Liliana/Hymn. Still think those are the most difficult match ups.

Played a match against BG Deck.
They had 1x Karakas and Liliana and Pox main.
Out of the board they had Surgical Extraction. In one of the matches my Dark Depths got surgicaled away...I won by Hexmage beatdown, but wasnt easy.
We heavily rely on Dark Depths. If this happens is there a chance to avoid it or something else i havent seen yet?

I play Deathrite Shamans and Tireless Tracker in my sideboard. It also is good against Liliana which is one of the most difficult cards to beat as well. You also can also board in your own Surgicals and use them to counter their Surgicals. I think that's pretty narrow and am not a huge fan. I had 1 Noxious Revival for a bit, but that was bad since it only came in against decks I thought might be bringing in extraction, which is loose.

[jdc5011]

Took the following list to a 20 person local duel for duals.

4 hexmage
4 elvish spirit guide
4 lotus petal
4 duress
4 thoughtseize
4 crop rotation
3 neddle
3 not of this world
4 sylvan scrying
3 exp map
4 verdant
2 bayou
1 cavern of souls
1 ghost quarter
4 dark depths
4 thesp stage
1 bojuka bog
1 forest
1 swamp
1 sejiri step
3 urbog

Side
1 Karakas
1 eye of ugin
1 emtakul the promised end
4 abrupt decay
4 surgical
1 maze of ith
1 life from the loam
1 toxic deluge
1 needle

Went 3-1-1 with ID into top 8 (4th overall). Top 8 split but feel like I could've taken my op round 1 (BUG standstill).

Round 1 (grixis painter)
Game 1 saw him grindstone me out the turn before I could token him. Pyroblast on urborg was rough. Game 2 was fast turn 2 or 3 token. Game 3 went real long. He has kept recurring strix with welder till I could finally find a needle. He tried to duplicant my token but got blown out by NotW. 1-0

Round 2 (burn)
We both had nut draws both games. I got him in 2 with lethal in the board next turn. Most notable was having 2 esg in hand to abrupt decay his turn 3 ensnaring bridge and still make the token. 2-0

Round 3 (miracles)
He had every answer. I had not of this world for swords but was blind flipped terminus was rough. Game 2 surgical dark depths while I had crop rotation and bojuka bog in hand. 2-1

Round 4 (miracles)
Game 1 ripped his hand apart with 3 thoughtseize and 1 duress. Game 2 misplay on my part since I knew he didn't have a counter in hand on my turn but waited to crop rotate at the end of his turn and got blown out with CS. Got it after a few back and forth battles. 3-1

Round 5 (Nic Fit)
ID into top 8

Overall I was impressed with the speed and redundancy of the list. I'm not sold on Karakas but didn't have to fight reanimator or S&T so can't really say. Never got to use deluge. Missing chalice was a hindrance since I'm sure it would've helped my miracles match. Pretty sold on the deck and feel like it's well positioned since we're good against all the decks that crush miracles. Also still trying to figure out the SB plan so I'm sure it will get better once I get that figured out.

Question for you veteran pilots out there. Say you have either exp map in play or scrying in hand and neither combo piece. Do you blindly go find one of the combo lands in the hopes of ripping the other or finding another tutor? Or would you rather wait to find one then tutor the one you need. I feel like the deck isn't designed to dirdle around looking for answers and I certainly don't want to be in a spot where I could've won if I acted sooner. On the other hand, getting half the combo blindly then ripping the same half off the top of the library feels really bad.

[DNSolver]

Glad to see you are picking up the deck and are happily surprised by its power level and consistency. I have a few questions about your list for you to elaborate on:

1) Cavern of Souls? What's the idea there?
2) How was the Emrakul plan for you against Miracles?

As far as your question about whether to search aggressively or wait for a combo piece, it's a difficult question that usually depends on the matchup. G1 against decks that have inevitability (Miracles, Death and Taxes probably) you probably are best off searching when you can. All things being equal, I would grab Depths first because then you have 4 more ways to topdeck combo in your 4 Hexmages. However, Stage might be better to get in some scenarios, because it can copy something to fix your mana (ex. Bayou, basic Swamp) or provide utility (ex. Karakas against Death and Taxes).

Against more aggressive decks like Eldrazi it's also better to search ASAP because of Thought-Knot Seer and fast clocks like Reality Smasher that pressure your life total.

Again, all of these awkward scenarios are assuming that you don't have either combo piece - this means a) you mulligan'd a lot and will probably losee anyway, b) you kept a bad hand with neither combo piece, c) you let your land get Wastelanded or something, d) you already tried to combo and it didn't work. Discounting a and b, I would search out either the one you have fewest copies of, or Depths if you have no utility for a Stage.

[jdc5011]

Awesome. Thanks for the insight. Makes a lot of sense. As for cavern, it was a last minute addition since I had seen a lot of talk on here about reducing the forest count to blank submerge and didn't have any other BG non forest land. Honestly, I never felt a lack of green and cavern was helpful getting a hexmage out through pyroblast against painter. Also round 4 against miracles I had eye and cavern in hand. Didn't come down to it since I won with a token but a reasonable play would've been to name eldrazi and jam emrakul through force. I only brought it in for 2 matches but he gave me at least an out after my depths got surgicaled. I'm a little skeptical because miracles can still deal with him via counter or terminus.

As for chalice, it seems like it's something that would help fight miracles. Although I really liked the discard against them, chalice on 1 blanks swords and top. Thoughts? I know there's a lot of back and forth between chalice and sphere. I didn't run either but also didn't have to fight storm.

[Claymore]

Against Miracles with the Emrakul board, your only worry is having Emrakul countered. If she goes to the graveyard, she's done forever. Terminus isn't a big deal since you can tutor her back with Eye, and if you get to take their turn then you can nullify any incoming answers anyway. Is Promised End castable without a coffers?

Cavern of souls is interesting but I feel the deck has a lack of actual colored mana sources in my limited testing with it.

For Chalice, I think you'd want to expend all your discard before landing it, since it's such a haymaker for this deck.

[apple713]

Against Miracles with the Emrakul board, your only worry is having Emrakul countered. If she goes to the graveyard, she's done forever. Terminus isn't a big deal since you can tutor her back with Eye, and if you get to take their turn then you can nullify any incoming answers anyway. Is Promised End castable without a coffers?

Cavern of souls is interesting but I feel the deck has a lack of actual colored mana sources in my limited testing with it.

For Chalice, I think you'd want to expend all your discard before landing it, since it's such a haymaker for this deck.

this is one of the many reasons that emrakul 1.0 is better. never worry about countering.

[Namida]

For people playing Emrakul, the Promised End, are you actually worried about Emrakul being countered? I mean...do you need the body? Can you usually set up the game so that taking your opponent's turn messes them up enough for you to win the game with a Marit Lage?

[jdc5011]

Even though it didn't come to it, I was almost able to cast new emrakul for 5 (land, artifact, instant, creature, sorcery and tribal in the gy and reduced 2 more from eye). Also my cavern was on eldrazi so I wasn't worried about counters. But yes after my dark depths got surgicaled, my miracles op basically kept up force for emrakul the whole game.

For those trying emrakul 1.0, how do you plan to get the mana for him? Just wondering.

[uncletiggy]

I am really curious why emrakul 2.0 is a better two card alternate win condition then say dread statuary or worm harvest. Emrakul is uncastable anyway if rip is out so that major downside is a moot point on worm harvest. And both dodge counterspells better then emmy. You cant really find worm harvest outside of those playing the single loam, but your whole deck tutors the statuary?

[DNSolver]

@uncletiggy :

Dread Statuary and other mandlands don't do anything against Swords to Plowshares, and we can't get them back from the graveyard if blocked by Clique / Snapcaster without Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam.

Worm Harvest isn't tutorable while Emrakul 2.0 is by Eye of Ugin.

[AmokPL]

Thrun, The Last Troll?

[uncletiggy]

I'm aware of the plan it just feels like a lot has to go right for it to even pressure the opponent. Im super ok if dread statuary draws a plow or terminus and gives me an opportunity to extract them without the card disadvantage of making a token or forcing a jace to tick up instead of brainstorming. Im just not sold on emmy beong worth 2 slots in the board. But i havent tried it, also dont get me wrong i am not playing statuary or worm harvest just providing other alternate one(two) card wincons. Emrakul feels like it would be super bad in the dnt matchup and not so great against white eldrazi, everything else it feels like more protection to force the token threw would be better options. Idk tho just spitballing

[jdc5011]

What's your game plan against miracles? I am super worried about having another out considering how easy it is for them to find surgical and deal with our token.